2009.05.06 13:00 - The Interpretative Art of Art Interpretation

The Guardian for this meeting was genesis Zhangsun. The comments are by genesis Zhangsun.

stevenaia Michinaga: hello
Pila Mulligan: hi genesis and Steve
genesis Zhangsun: Hi Pila ans Steve
stevenaia Michinaga: Corvi could not make it today
genesis Zhangsun: okay
genesis Zhangsun: Hi Fefonz
Pila Mulligan: hi Fefonz
Fefonz Quan: Hi All :)
Pila Mulligan: hi Wol
Wol Euler: hello fef, steve, gen, pila
genesis Zhangsun: Hi Wol!
Pila Mulligan: hi Inwood
stevenaia Michinaga: Hi, Wol and Inwood
Pila Mulligan: although Pema asked that 15 minutes of this session be devoted to a real life retreat center, there may not be that much to say :)
Fefonz Quan: RLRC
Inwood Vyper: Hi Everyone
Fefonz Quan: Hi Inwood
Wol Euler waves
Pila Mulligan: thanks, Fefonz, OCTIANA
Wol Euler: eh?
Pila Mulligan: 'Of Course, That Is A Nice Acronym'
Wol Euler: aaah
Pila Mulligan: :)
Fefonz Quan: OCTIANA
stevenaia Michinaga: Well there is always much to say about that Pila
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Wol Euler: nkabtysireu
Pila Mulligan: ok Wol, there's a toguh one
Pila Mulligan: can tell?
Wol Euler: heheheheh
Wol Euler: or an old one!
Wol Euler: people over 50 might know this
Wol Euler points to herself
Inwood Vyper: Can you guys bring me up to speed
Pila Mulligan: Steve, please, say much :)
Wol Euler: Never Kiss A Baby Till You're Sure It's Right End Up
Pila Mulligan: :) thank you
Fefonz Quan: oh, nie !
Fefonz Quan: nice*
Wol Euler chuckles
Pila Mulligan: hi Mick
Wol Euler: hello mick
Fefonz Quan: Hey Mick
genesis Zhangsun: Hey Mick
Mickorod Renard: Hiya everyone
genesis Zhangsun: Inwood have you been here before?
stevenaia Michinaga: The idea was to begin to accumulate thoughts one what teh makeup, contents, "Program" would be for an eventaul Real Life retreat for our group
stevenaia Michinaga: *of
Pila Mulligan: hi sophia
genesis Zhangsun: Hi Sophia
sophia Placebo: greeting all
Mickorod Renard: hi Sophia
Wol Euler: hello sophia
sophia Placebo: hi pila , genisis:)
stevenaia Michinaga: this could include "activity places" and what the form or cotents of such spaces should include
Fefonz Quan: Hi Sophia, nice summery outfit
sophia Placebo: steven , wol fef, inwood, mick :) and if anyone didnt rez yet
stevenaia Michinaga: since we are non-denominational.. or all denominational, iconograpgy of sorts would be inappropriate
sophia Placebo: thax fef :)
stevenaia Michinaga: but symbolism might be... we have a logo, it may be a place to start
Fefonz Quan: well steve, you managed to get more than 4 11 letters words in one sentence!
stevenaia Michinaga: \and I noticed some of those words were spelled correctly
stevenaia Michinaga: could be a record
Pila Mulligan: congratulations :)
Wol Euler cheers
stevenaia Michinaga: (full disclosure, I usually spellcheck my logs) Thank me later Pila
Pila Mulligan: thank you (5 seconds later)
Fefonz Quan: how do you do that steeve? external feature?
stevenaia Michinaga: how do I do what? Spellcheck?
Fefonz Quan: yep
stevenaia Michinaga: dump the webpage log into a text editor with a spellchecker
stevenaia Michinaga: make the corrections then copy paste it into the Wiki
Fefonz Quan: ok, i thought there mihgt be an inworld application for that ;-)
stevenaia Michinaga: do I look like I know of an inworld spell checker.... grins
Fefonz Quan: if you ask, you look like a big blonde dude, but what should i learn from taht? :)
Fefonz Quan: that?
stevenaia Michinaga: a gift from a friend I wear happilly
sophia Placebo: brb
stevenaia Michinaga: So rather than attempt to extract the imagery that I was speaking about above for the RL Retreat, I would ask that you begin to use the idea of a PaB retrear in RL as the bases o some of the meditative moemnts and "See" what presents itself.... bring it with you next week
stevenaia Michinaga: *retreat
Pila Mulligan: a visionary approach, Steve :)
stevenaia Michinaga: we can trhough them into the fountain and see what floats
Fefonz Quan: I saw some piece in a newspaper interview that i thought inspiring, concerning art, poetry and existance, and maybe vision as well
Fefonz Quan: (but if we are still in the RLRC issue i can bring it later)
stevenaia Michinaga: id there is a link to it, attache it to the Wiki log
stevenaia Michinaga: *if
stevenaia Michinaga: whenever one crosses or forward it to the PaB RL google group for us all to see
stevenaia Michinaga: just a thought so you ahve to palce to go with the information when not in out meetings so it doesn't get lost
stevenaia Michinaga: *have a place
Fefonz Quan: yes, i pasted the part i liked to my page to hold it.
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Pila Mulligan: hi Eliza
Mickorod Renard: Hi Eliza
Fefonz Quan: Hey Eliza ;)
Wol Euler: hello eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Pila, Mick, genesis, sophia, Wol, Fef, Steven :))
stevenaia Michinaga: with over a year of using your mind to see, and puting it in to words, It should be to see what comes from applying this technique to a physical construct, homage to being
stevenaia Michinaga: should be "interesting" rather
sophia Placebo: hi eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Hi sophia :)
Fefonz Quan: So this is the piece i found :
Fefonz Quan: BF: Getting back to This Dream of You , the character sings, "How long can I stay in this nowhere café?" Where is that café? BD: It sounds like it's south of the border or close to the border. BF: You're not saying? BD: Well, no, it's not like I'm not saying. But if you have those kind of thoughts and feelings you know where the guy is. He's right where you are. If you don't have those thoughts and feelings then he doesn't exist.
Fefonz Quan: (BF is the interviewer, BD the singer)
Wol Euler: Mr. Zimmerman?
Fefonz Quan: yeah, right :)
Wol Euler: :)
Fefonz Quan: i liked the idea that when we contemplate art - painting, song, etc., what we don';t see there - does not exist.
Fefonz Quan: there is no point in someone else, even the writer, tell us what it should be like.
Mickorod Renard: I have to go guys,,sorry,,bye
Pila Mulligan: bye Mick
Fefonz Quan: Bye Mick
Mickorod Renard: thanks
Mickorod Renard: thanks
Wol Euler: bye mick
sophia Placebo: bye mick
genesis Zhangsun: bye Mick
Fefonz Quan: Hey Ara :)
sophia Placebo: hi ara
genesis Zhangsun: Hi Ara
Pila Mulligan: hi arabella
Pila Mulligan: same with describing a place or expereince, Fefonz, if the person being told has not seen it themselves, the description only benefits their imagination
Eliza Madrigal: Hello Ara
Wol Euler: hello ara
Fefonz Quan: yes, Pila
arabella Ella: Hiya Fef everyone!
sophia Placebo: its said that there is level of knowing
Fefonz Quan: and some hidden hist to how we percieve real life, not just art and fiction
Fefonz Quan: hist*
Fefonz Quan: hint*
Eliza Madrigal: I have a close friend who is an abstract artist, and she loves when people see things in her paintings she never imagined. Often she will be amazed at how insightful they can be about something that shows up onto the canvas.
Fefonz Quan: sorry, please go on Sophia
sophia Placebo: like , some one that have no idea that fire exist , second level would being told about it , third one would be seeing it burning things by himself ,and the last one would be being burned by it then he can say that he definitly know that fire burn things :)
Fefonz Quan: yes, interesting interpretation to 'be the fire'
Eliza Madrigal: Certainly
arabella Ella: apologies something cropped up must leave nite all!
Eliza Madrigal: Nite Ara
Pila Mulligan: bye arabella
sophia Placebo: bye ara
Fefonz Quan: night Ara
Wol Euler: bye ara, take care
sophia Placebo: abstract art is tricky
Fefonz Quan: Eliza, concerning your artist friend, i also believe that once an art piece is leaving the artists pencil, his interepretation is no longer more valid than others
Eliza Madrigal: It can be Sophia.
sophia Placebo: it actually abstract your thoughts using colors and lines
sophia Placebo: weather you were the artist or the veiwer :)
Eliza Madrigal nods
genesis Zhangsun: what if Fefonz it was not really "the artists" interpretation
genesis Zhangsun: often artists say that something spoke through them
genesis Zhangsun: I think hearing what the artist felt was speaking through them adds to the piece
Eliza Madrigal: Yes, what is most interesting, is that I remember the first time she painted something... she just let it go and was amazed and what came up.... she didn't set out to paint anything in particular.
Eliza Madrigal: I tried it... and had the experience... but for me it was/is a few experiences...
Eliza Madrigal: years later, she is far more skillful and professional....but the main thing is still that ability to let go.
Eliza Madrigal: And wait to see
Fefonz Quan: is it a quote from soemwhere eliza?
Eliza Madrigal: a quote, Fef?
Fefonz Quan: the 'she' sentences
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, my friend :) She. :)
Pila Mulligan: creativity is sublime
Fefonz Quan: ah, your' friend, please forgive my weak mind
genesis Zhangsun: maybe it was a "friend"
genesis Zhangsun: ;)
Pila Mulligan: an observation: while arabella was here the four sitting avis to gen's left were all from warm (rl) climates, while gen and the three to her right are in more northerly places (an interesting balance)
genesis Zhangsun: I thought thats what you meant Fefonz
genesis Zhangsun: interesting observation Pila
Fefonz Quan: no gen, i meant it generally
Fefonz Quan: and i still think that whatever was teh inspiration, once the piece is done, interpretations are equally valid
Pila Mulligan: yes, Fefonz, art is not really owned that way
stevenaia Michinaga: I must go, see you tonight
genesis Zhangsun: bye Steve
Pila Mulligan: bye Steve, thanks
sophia Placebo: bye steve
Fefonz Quan: did i say owned?
Eliza Madrigal: yes. That is what I meant to respond to, that she feels that way too... She listens to what others feel about it and then sees more :)
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Steven
Fefonz Quan: bye Steve
Wol Euler: bye steve
Pila Mulligan: no, Fefonz, but I was thinking the artist does not own the interpretation
Fefonz Quan: surely, that's exactly what i said. still it is very common for people to ask him 'what did you meant it to be' etc. and th extreme maybe is all those DVD versions of movies with extra's and explanatins and blah blah blah
Eliza Madrigal: Once it is 'out there' it must stand on its own. The artist can guide someone to see their view..but no more really :)
Fefonz Quan nods
sophia Placebo: it works too on your life stories that you tell to others -some artisticly naturall ones- though it is yours but poeple share some insights incommon with yours and some may add a new ones
sophia Placebo: same goes on books and scientific theories :) i guess
Pila Mulligan: and an artist's inspriation is usually a matter of public curiosity
genesis Zhangsun: yes I see Fefonz there is a sort of attaching on
genesis Zhangsun: the artist attaches to their interpretation and sort of bleeds on with it
Fefonz Quan: (scientific theories can a least be tested sophia)
genesis Zhangsun: same for stories
Eliza Madrigal: Sophia, that is so true. Someone may take an element of someone else's story and write a different story entirely!
genesis Zhangsun: yes but the weight perhaps that is given to some theories
genesis Zhangsun: there may be an overemphasis
Fefonz Quan: wel, that is true too
Eliza Madrigal: yes, sure.
Fefonz Quan: i jsut wanted to avoid the somehow post-modernic notion of science and art are the same
genesis Zhangsun: i see the common thread as the attachment that can come along with sharing
Pila Mulligan: creativity may be their common element
genesis Zhangsun: any type of sharing
genesis Zhangsun: artistic, scientific, story telling etx
genesis Zhangsun: yes and people attach to their creativity
Eliza Madrigal: yes, and then attachment is a place of 'stuck' in one note
sophia Placebo: i think the unusual way of getting to the point is what brings science with art
genesis Zhangsun: rather than just being creative
Pila Mulligan: I see the idea, also, gen, how launching a creation inevitably extends the creator's ideas
Fefonz Quan: wel yes. most of most of the people are far from 'just being' anything
genesis Zhangsun: team meeting got to go!
Pila Mulligan: bye genesis, thank you
Eliza Madrigal: Bye genesis
genesis Zhangsun: bye thanks!
sophia Placebo: bye gen
Wol Euler: oh, me too. gotta go. bye all!
Wol Euler: (alseep at the wheel. duh.)
sophia Placebo: bye wol
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Wol :) hehe
Pila Mulligan: bye Wol :)
Fefonz Quan: me too :) bye all :)
sophia Placebo: bye fef
Pila Mulligan: bye Fefonz
Eliza Madrigal: sophia, can you say more about what you see as 'unsual way of getting at things?"
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Fefonz :)
sophia Placebo: something like un striat thinking
Pila Mulligan: abstraction maybe
sophia Placebo: more likly when you ask them how you get to that idea they cant explain it clearly
sophia Placebo: they would give you un connected words
Eliza Madrigal: Hm.. yes. It just comes from 'somewhere' 'nowhere' ? Ah... yup.
Eliza Madrigal: Can be Abstract certainly... but that seems only once there is enough trust in base knowledge....
sophia Placebo: ideas then become clearer with time , some popel may say that they change thier mind all the time but thats the nature of those ideas
sophia Placebo: not from no where but maybe from many sources that are not yet connected
Eliza Madrigal nods.
sophia Placebo: see you later :)
Pila Mulligan: bye sophia, thank you
Eliza Madrigal: Bye sophia... thanks for expounding on that a bit. :)
sophia Placebo: yvw :)
Pila Mulligan: should we stop the recording?
Eliza Madrigal: No need really... but if you'd like to. I was wondering what the conversation was
Eliza Madrigal: before I got here? Attachment?
Pila Mulligan: it began with the real life retreat center ...
Pila Mulligan: Pema asked that 15 minutes of this session each week be on that subject
Pila Mulligan: then moved on through several ideas to the art topic
Eliza Madrigal: Ah... any developments there?
Pila Mulligan: Steve asked people to let images arise during their pauses/contemplations and to then share those ideas
Pila Mulligan: my feeling is we have a ways to go before it becomes tangible, but that the idea is doable eventually
Eliza Madrigal: It is a great idea... Maybe in ten - fifteen years when my son is in college I can live there some of the time. : )
Pila Mulligan: :)
Eliza Madrigal: I feel great btw, thanks for our talk yesterday :)
Pila Mulligan: I'm happy to hear, did you do the Zen last night?
Eliza Madrigal: Yes, It is at 6PM SLT here nightly and I enjoy it.
Pila Mulligan: where is it?
Eliza Madrigal: Zen Retreat - Reiul. The balloon here takes one there :)
Eliza Madrigal: (oops)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pila Mulligan: hmm, not sure i have been there yet
Eliza Madrigal: When I first signed onto SL, that's all I did really....
Eliza Madrigal: I like group meditation and it has been difficult to pull off in RL...
Pila Mulligan: so is it just silent sitting or do people also chat
Eliza Madrigal: so I couldn't get enough... was somewhere like 3x a day
Eliza Madrigal: Just sit. On Wed night there is a Buddhist discussion
Pila Mulligan: now this is where Stim is perplexed ....
Pila Mulligan: and I am also not sure exactly how to take SL group meditation
Pila Mulligan: it is interesting
Pila Mulligan: but it is not rl group meditation
Pila Mulligan: and the question is how does it idffer
Eliza Madrigal: the online practice....? yes... I can see why. I have found it to be a little odd sometimes....
Pila Mulligan: and how valid can it be for teching
Pila Mulligan: it has a depth that surprised me actually
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Pila Mulligan: it is not a shallow substittue
Pila Mulligan: but it is not real in the sense that Stim is used to
Eliza Madrigal: absolutely not. It can be a shallow substitute.... if one uses or approaches it that way...
Pila Mulligan: and so he wonders how to form expereiments that are apporpriate for SL
Eliza Madrigal: I mean after all no one can see whether another is meditating.. but it shouldn't matter ultimately imo
Pila Mulligan: true, and there is a sense of shared energy
Pila Mulligan: quantum entanglement maybe :)
Eliza Madrigal: I have scaled back to mornings and nightly online, and much of my practice is offline. There is definitely shared energy!
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Eliza Madrigal: When attending this little mini-retreat last weekend..
Pila Mulligan: I only tried a few times in SL
Eliza Madrigal: there were a few small discussions... and I found that I'd 'learned' a lot via SL and the communities here..
Eliza Madrigal: not really 'trying to' mostly...
Pila Mulligan: yes, for sure
Pila Mulligan: just sending emails can be educational
Pila Mulligan: adding the animation makes it even more interesting
Eliza Madrigal: just that there rich conversation and sharing if one is up for it! :)
Eliza Madrigal: yes certainly
Pila Mulligan: and the continuity is also a factor -- frequent SL chats and a resulting familiarity
Eliza Madrigal: That too!!
Eliza Madrigal: There is a constancy
Pila Mulligan: even if it is not in the organic manner of real life
Pila Mulligan: it is interesting to read about real life meetings that follow this type of SL familiarity
Pila Mulligan: usually there are both recognitions and surprises
Eliza Madrigal: Well...but it feeds into it... certainly a flow RL/SL/DreamLife/RL/PaB/etc
Pila Mulligan: and then, being PaB, we have to ask, what is real any way :)
Eliza Madrigal: :) You've had that experience... were you surprised?
Pila Mulligan: no, I have never met anyone from SL
Pila Mulligan: if that was the question
Eliza Madrigal: No? Why did I think you had?
Pila Mulligan: :)?
Pila Mulligan: dunno
Eliza Madrigal: I seem to have created all sorts of stories around people lately. heheh
Eliza Madrigal: I was speaking to someone the other night and half way through realized I had the wrong person in mind... overload!
Pila Mulligan: yep, those mistakes are easy
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: I thought you went to the first retreat
Eliza Madrigal: I can tell you... I look mostly like Ferocious of any of my avatars. hahaha
Pila Mulligan: I joined this SL group a couple of months after the first retreat was held
Pila Mulligan: :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pila Mulligan: then I will not be surprised if we meet and you bark
Eliza Madrigal: heheh.. or roar
Pila Mulligan: is ferocious a wolf?
Eliza Madrigal: yes :)
Eliza Madrigal: howl then
Pila Mulligan: have you met Susi
Pila Mulligan: Susi means wolf in Finnish
Eliza Madrigal: I've met Susi before... in the mornings sometimes
Eliza Madrigal: I didn't know that
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: read it in a log
Eliza Madrigal: I'll have to show up as Ferocious when Susi is there then
Pila Mulligan: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Pila, will you make it to the next retreat?
Pila Mulligan: well, Eliza, I probably should look to some rl stuff
Pila Mulligan: no, i am a homebody
Pila Mulligan: the travel effort keeps me from goting to the retreat
Eliza Madrigal: Ah... Maybe will come to you at some point :)
Pila Mulligan: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Pila :)
Pila Mulligan: aloha
Eliza Madrigal: Aloha!