2009.05.23 01:00 - Deja Vu

The Guardian for this meeting was Scathach Rhiadra. The comments are by Scathach Rhiadra.

Bertrum, Nymf and Wol arrive at the pagoda in quick succession, and we spend some time looking for a topic......  

Bertrum Quan: Hi Scath
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello bertrum
Nymf Hathaway: Good day you both :)
Scathach Rhiadra: hello Nymf
Bertrum Quan: Hello Nymf
Scathach Rhiadra: how are you both today?
Nymf Hathaway: Doing very well, thank you and how are you?
Bertrum Quan: I'm fine tonight. And you?
Scathach Rhiadra: i'm fine thank you:)
Scathach Rhiadra: so any topic to discuss?
Bertrum Quan: What direction would you like to take?
Scathach Rhiadra: I'm not fussy, whatever you would like
Bertrum Quan: Nymf, do you have a topic?
Nymf Hathaway: Hmmm I started one yesterday about the power of thinking..but let me think
Nymf Hathaway: Good morning Wol :)
Scathach Rhiadra: hello Wol
Bertrum Quan: Hi Wol
Wol Euler: good morning nymf, scath, bertrum
Nymf Hathaway: We are still thinking about a subject
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Wol Euler: ah
Wol Euler: why coffee never tastes quite as good as the ground beans smell?
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Nymf Hathaway: :))))
Wol Euler: there#s something about Appearance in that ...
Bertrum Quan: popcorn is like that too.
Wol Euler: :)
Scathach Rhiadra: and I can never make the perfect cup of tea, just not quite right
Scathach Rhiadra: perhaps that is about desire, grasping for something which we think will be perfect, or make us perfe3ctly happy
Wol Euler nods. Not being satisfied wiht the way it is
Scathach Rhiadra: but there is always something else to go after
Bertrum Quan: expectation vs reality

Bertrum raises the question of Deja Vu, a facinating topic that captures all our attention......

Bertrum Quan: This has probably been discussed, but I wondered what thoughts you all have about deja vu experiences
Scathach Rhiadra: ah, interesting topic
Nymf Hathaway: I read its a defect in the information stream in our brain... in and out is crossing each other to fast...thats why we think we already experienced it
Scathach Rhiadra: I think it may be where we experience time 'out of synch', so to speak, we lose the linearity of past, present and future for just a moment
Nymf Hathaway: Smiles, perfectly put :)
Wol Euler: nicely said
Bertrum Quan: Yes, that is the sense of it.
Bertrum Quan: Do you think there's more too it? Seeing though the illusion of time?
Wol Euler: "seeing through" sounds a bit too much for me, because it's an accident, not an intended state
Bertrum Quan: A glimspe then?
Scathach Rhiadra: possibly, but it disturbs our ordinary mind, so we have to go back to the nrmal time, so to speak
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Scathach Rhiadra: normal*
Scathach Rhiadra: or at least I always find it a bit disturbing
Bertrum Quan: How would you feel if you actually had been in that very scene before?
Bertrum Quan: If you knew it to be true?
Wol Euler has visions of "groundhog day"
Scathach Rhiadra: and you were experiencing it again exactly?
Bertrum Quan: Yes...
Scathach Rhiadra: that would be disconcerting, in fact it is that feeling of knowing I have done, said, or seen this before which causes the feeling of maybe disorientation
Bertrum Quan: So, in your mind, you belive it is possible then... that it may have actually happened before...
Bertrum Quan: believe
Scathach Rhiadra: mmm, or something to do with time, like experiencing the effect before the cause, just out of synch, if that makes sense
Bertrum Quan: Yes, it makes sense.
Bertrum Quan: But it's interesting how common an experience it is. And it's a prompt when we question what is real, what is possible...

We come back to Wol's comment about the film Groundhog Day.  We discuss the Hollywood treatment of time; the happy ending that no Hollywood film is complete without.  then Bertrum recommends a French film, Le Jette, also dealing with time, but in a much more powerful way......

Bertrum Quan: Wol, I really like that sweet nightmare of a movie, Groundhog Day. But the movie really begs the question and ultimely is ab out wish fulfillment.
Wol Euler: I disagree, I htink it is about learning to live an observant and useful life
Bertrum Quan: Yes, that too.
Wol Euler: the happy ending is somewhat contrived, I'll grant you that. Bu Hollywood cannot concieve of a film withuot one
Wol Euler: I find it a very PaB-like film
Nymf Hathaway: Never saw the movie :(
Bertrum Quan: Yes, in its playfulness (but not in its happy ending)
Wol Euler: oh, you must!
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Wol Euler: quite highly wonderful!
Nymf Hathaway: Thank you for the tip, I will download it
Wol Euler: :)
Scathach Rhiadra: do you see the understanding of reality having a happy ending?
Bertrum Quan: I wouldn't connect the understanind, experiencing, seeing automatically with that emotion.
Scathach Rhiadra nods
Bertrum Quan: understanding
Wol Euler: I think the -real-happy ending is the change in him
Wol Euler: (Nymf, you might want to put your fingers in your ears and hum, to avoid the spoilers taht may follow :)
Nymf Hathaway: Smiles, thanks Wol :)

Bertrum Quan: There's a very powerful french film that also deals with time -- Le Jette by Chris Marker. Have any of you seen it?
Scathach Rhiadra: no I haven't
Wol Euler: that rings only vague bells, probably not
Bertrum Quan: It has the poetry and complexity that the Hollywood formula removes from movies like Groundhog Day.
Wol Euler: http://www.theartistbureau.com/2009/01/le-jette.html  <-- that one?
Bertrum Quan: Yes, that's the movie I'm referring to.
Wol Euler: thank you for the tip, I'll have a look after lunch. It sounds great!
Scathach Rhiadra: yes, it looks very good, great music too:)
Nymf Hathaway: Downloading as well :)
Bertrum Quan: The one visual Marker exploits is the sense of live action (there's only a few seconds of it in the entire film). The rest are all static images and all movement is camera movement.
Bertrum Quan: It's a movie that really makes one think about memory and life.
Bertrum Quan: (As well as other things... time... love... death... war...)
Wol Euler smiles

(Le Jette is only 26 minutes long, and definitely recommended viewing)

Deja Vu and talk of time naturally leads us on to reincarnation......

Bertrum Quan: Do any of you believe in reincarnation?
Nymf Hathaway: Did
Scathach Rhiadra: or rebirth
Wol Euler: mmmmm, I don't exclude the possibility, but I don't think that it is something that we could ever know or experience
Scathach Rhiadra: and would it be any benefit to us to remember precious lives, if they existed?
Scathach Rhiadra: previous*
Scathach Rhiadra: (and precious too:))
Wol Euler: a lovely typo :)
Wol Euler: leave that in the log please :)
Bertrum Quan: Yes...
Scathach Rhiadra: =^.^=
Bertrum Quan: Benefit sounds awfully pragmatic -- it either is or it is not.
Nymf Hathaway: Is very interested in the fact people seem to be able of incredible things in their dreams at night, for example an american lady who speaks perfectly manderin in her dreams.... could this be due to a previous life or givento us by genes?
Scathach Rhiadra: mmm true, but some say rebirth is more to do with moment-to-moment not life-to-life, we can experience that I think
Bertrum Quan: Scath, I'm not sure I understand what you mean.
Scathach Rhiadra: the cycle of becoming, rebirth is more a moment to moment experience, not life to life, although it is considered that too
Scathach Rhiadra: we cannot know about previous lives, but we can know being reborn each moment
Wol Euler: aaaaah
Wol Euler: interesting idea.
Bertrum Quan: Yes, the idea is interesting.
Bertrum Quan: Nymf, you said initially "did" believe. Where are you now on the subject?
Nymf Hathaway: Well... I am thinking it is wishfull thinking but seeing a lot of things still left unexplained as the subject I just adressed.... so still open to answers :)

Yakuzza arrives, closely followed by a new visitor.  He reminds us that we have gone past the hour and so we go our separate ways.   Some to sleep, some to start the day......

Nymf Hathaway: Hello Yakuzza :)
Scathach Rhiadra: hello Yakuzza
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey still activity at 2 am
Wol Euler: guten morgen, yakuzza
Yakuzza Lethecus: danke, du hoffentlich auch :)
Wol Euler: soweit, sehr gut :)
Scathach Rhiadra: what do you think Bertrum?
Nymf Hathaway: Loves the different languages in sl :)
Wol Euler nods. Much like New York or London
Wol Euler: try sitting on an empty cushion, drveecs
Nymf Hathaway: Hello Drveecs
Wol Euler: ty
Nymf Hathaway: :)
drveecs Ghost: hi nymf
Scathach Rhiadra: hello Drveecs, have you been here before
drveecs Ghost: no 1st time
drveecs Ghost: whats new here
Scathach Rhiadra: ok, I weill give you a notecard explaining what we are about
drveecs Ghost: ok thank you
drveecs Ghost: seem like a disscus group
Bertrum Quan: I need to say good day to you all. And I need to get some sleep. Take care everyone.
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye
Nymf Hathaway: Have a goodnight Bertrum :)
Scathach Rhiadra: good night Bertrum
drveecs Ghost: good nite
Wol Euler: ah, too late.
drveecs Ghost: you from u.s?
Nymf Hathaway: are you?
drveecs Ghost: no im not
Scathach Rhiadra: yes Drveecs, we are a meditation group who meet here every 6 hours to discuss the nature of reality and anything else, and we record discussions and post on wiki, do you mind being recorded?
drveecs Ghost: fine
Scathach Rhiadra: brb, phone
drveecs Ghost: but my english is sucks
drveecs Ghost: ok
Nymf Hathaway: Is sorry she has to leave but will be back, wishing everyone a friendly day :)
Scathach Rhiadra: back
Wol Euler: bye nymf, and wb scath
Scathach Rhiadra: bye Nymf
Wol Euler: actually I must go too, shopping and laundry to do...
Nymf Hathaway: Bye bye
Wol Euler: goodbye all, enjoy your weekends
drveecs Ghost: bye nymf
Scathach Rhiadra: ok, bye Wol, have a good day, see you later:)
drveecs Ghost: bye wol
Wol Euler smiles and waves
Yakuzza Lethecus: ok, it already started 1 am
Yakuzza Lethecus: i just come here to listen :D
Yakuzza Lethecus: so i will leave as well
Scathach Rhiadra: and I must go too, yes the meeting hours are 1, 7 am and 1, 7 pm SL time
drveecs Ghost: only me here
Yakuzza Lethecus: ok, i hope everyone got a good day
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye!
drveecs Ghost: have a good day
Scathach Rhiadra: have a good day/night:)
drveecs Ghost: yakuzza
drveecs Ghost: hey scathach