2009.05.06 13:00 - The Interpretative Art of Art Interpretation

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    The Guardian for this meeting was genesis Zhangsun. The comments are by genesis Zhangsun.

    stevenaia Michinaga: hello
    Pila Mulligan: hi genesis and Steve
    genesis Zhangsun: Hi Pila ans Steve
    stevenaia Michinaga: Corvi could not make it today
    genesis Zhangsun: okay
    genesis Zhangsun: Hi Fefonz
    Pila Mulligan: hi Fefonz
    Fefonz Quan: Hi All :)
    Pila Mulligan: hi Wol
    Wol Euler: hello fef, steve, gen, pila
    genesis Zhangsun: Hi Wol!
    Pila Mulligan: hi Inwood
    stevenaia Michinaga: Hi, Wol and Inwood
    Pila Mulligan: although Pema asked that 15 minutes of this session be devoted to a real life retreat center, there may not be that much to say :)
    Fefonz Quan: RLRC
    Inwood Vyper: Hi Everyone
    Fefonz Quan: Hi Inwood
    Wol Euler waves
    Pila Mulligan: thanks, Fefonz, OCTIANA
    Wol Euler: eh?
    Pila Mulligan: 'Of Course, That Is A Nice Acronym'
    Wol Euler: aaah
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Fefonz Quan: OCTIANA
    stevenaia Michinaga: Well there is always much to say about that Pila
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Wol Euler: nkabtysireu
    Pila Mulligan: ok Wol, there's a toguh one
    Pila Mulligan: can tell?
    Wol Euler: heheheheh
    Wol Euler: or an old one!
    Wol Euler: people over 50 might know this
    Wol Euler points to herself
    Inwood Vyper: Can you guys bring me up to speed
    Pila Mulligan: Steve, please, say much :)
    Wol Euler: Never Kiss A Baby Till You're Sure It's Right End Up
    Pila Mulligan: :) thank you
    Fefonz Quan: oh, nie !
    Fefonz Quan: nice*
    Wol Euler chuckles
    Pila Mulligan: hi Mick
    Wol Euler: hello mick
    Fefonz Quan: Hey Mick
    genesis Zhangsun: Hey Mick
    Mickorod Renard: Hiya everyone
    genesis Zhangsun: Inwood have you been here before?
    stevenaia Michinaga: The idea was to begin to accumulate thoughts one what teh makeup, contents, "Program" would be for an eventaul Real Life retreat for our group
    stevenaia Michinaga: *of
    Pila Mulligan: hi sophia
    genesis Zhangsun: Hi Sophia
    sophia Placebo: greeting all
    Mickorod Renard: hi Sophia
    Wol Euler: hello sophia
    sophia Placebo: hi pila , genisis:)
    stevenaia Michinaga: this could include "activity places" and what the form or cotents of such spaces should include
    Fefonz Quan: Hi Sophia, nice summery outfit
    sophia Placebo: steven , wol fef, inwood, mick :) and if anyone didnt rez yet
    stevenaia Michinaga: since we are non-denominational.. or all denominational, iconograpgy of sorts would be inappropriate
    sophia Placebo: thax fef :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: but symbolism might be... we have a logo, it may be a place to start
    Fefonz Quan: well steve, you managed to get more than 4 11 letters words in one sentence!
    stevenaia Michinaga: \and I noticed some of those words were spelled correctly
    stevenaia Michinaga: could be a record
    Pila Mulligan: congratulations :)
    Wol Euler cheers
    stevenaia Michinaga: (full disclosure, I usually spellcheck my logs) Thank me later Pila
    Pila Mulligan: thank you (5 seconds later)
    Fefonz Quan: how do you do that steeve? external feature?
    stevenaia Michinaga: how do I do what? Spellcheck?
    Fefonz Quan: yep
    stevenaia Michinaga: dump the webpage log into a text editor with a spellchecker
    stevenaia Michinaga: make the corrections then copy paste it into the Wiki
    Fefonz Quan: ok, i thought there mihgt be an inworld application for that ;-)
    stevenaia Michinaga: do I look like I know of an inworld spell checker.... grins
    Fefonz Quan: if you ask, you look like a big blonde dude, but what should i learn from taht? :)
    Fefonz Quan: that?
    stevenaia Michinaga: a gift from a friend I wear happilly
    sophia Placebo: brb
    stevenaia Michinaga: So rather than attempt to extract the imagery that I was speaking about above for the RL Retreat, I would ask that you begin to use the idea of a PaB retrear in RL as the bases o some of the meditative moemnts and "See" what presents itself.... bring it with you next week
    stevenaia Michinaga: *retreat
    Pila Mulligan: a visionary approach, Steve :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: we can trhough them into the fountain and see what floats
    Fefonz Quan: I saw some piece in a newspaper interview that i thought inspiring, concerning art, poetry and existance, and maybe vision as well
    Fefonz Quan: (but if we are still in the RLRC issue i can bring it later)
    stevenaia Michinaga: id there is a link to it, attache it to the Wiki log
    stevenaia Michinaga: *if
    stevenaia Michinaga: whenever one crosses or forward it to the PaB RL google group for us all to see
    stevenaia Michinaga: just a thought so you ahve to palce to go with the information when not in out meetings so it doesn't get lost
    stevenaia Michinaga: *have a place
    Fefonz Quan: yes, i pasted the part i liked to my page to hold it.
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Pila Mulligan: hi Eliza
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Eliza
    Fefonz Quan: Hey Eliza ;)
    Wol Euler: hello eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Pila, Mick, genesis, sophia, Wol, Fef, Steven :))
    stevenaia Michinaga: with over a year of using your mind to see, and puting it in to words, It should be to see what comes from applying this technique to a physical construct, homage to being
    stevenaia Michinaga: should be "interesting" rather
    sophia Placebo: hi eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi sophia :)
    Fefonz Quan: So this is the piece i found :
    Fefonz Quan: BF: Getting back to This Dream of You , the character sings, "How long can I stay in this nowhere café?" Where is that café? BD: It sounds like it's south of the border or close to the border. BF: You're not saying? BD: Well, no, it's not like I'm not saying. But if you have those kind of thoughts and feelings you know where the guy is. He's right where you are. If you don't have those thoughts and feelings then he doesn't exist.
    Fefonz Quan: (BF is the interviewer, BD the singer)
    Wol Euler: Mr. Zimmerman?
    Fefonz Quan: yeah, right :)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Fefonz Quan: i liked the idea that when we contemplate art - painting, song, etc., what we don';t see there - does not exist.
    Fefonz Quan: there is no point in someone else, even the writer, tell us what it should be like.
    Mickorod Renard: I have to go guys,,sorry,,bye
    Pila Mulligan: bye Mick
    Fefonz Quan: Bye Mick
    Mickorod Renard: thanks
    Mickorod Renard: thanks
    Wol Euler: bye mick
    sophia Placebo: bye mick
    genesis Zhangsun: bye Mick
    Fefonz Quan: Hey Ara :)
    sophia Placebo: hi ara
    genesis Zhangsun: Hi Ara
    Pila Mulligan: hi arabella
    Pila Mulligan: same with describing a place or expereince, Fefonz, if the person being told has not seen it themselves, the description only benefits their imagination
    Eliza Madrigal: Hello Ara
    Wol Euler: hello ara
    Fefonz Quan: yes, Pila
    arabella Ella: Hiya Fef everyone!
    sophia Placebo: its said that there is level of knowing
    Fefonz Quan: and some hidden hist to how we percieve real life, not just art and fiction
    Fefonz Quan: hist*
    Fefonz Quan: hint*
    Eliza Madrigal: I have a close friend who is an abstract artist, and she loves when people see things in her paintings she never imagined. Often she will be amazed at how insightful they can be about something that shows up onto the canvas.
    Fefonz Quan: sorry, please go on Sophia
    sophia Placebo: like , some one that have no idea that fire exist , second level would being told about it , third one would be seeing it burning things by himself ,and the last one would be being burned by it then he can say that he definitly know that fire burn things :)
    Fefonz Quan: yes, interesting interpretation to 'be the fire'
    Eliza Madrigal: Certainly
    arabella Ella: apologies something cropped up must leave nite all!
    Eliza Madrigal: Nite Ara
    Pila Mulligan: bye arabella
    sophia Placebo: bye ara
    Fefonz Quan: night Ara
    Wol Euler: bye ara, take care
    sophia Placebo: abstract art is tricky
    Fefonz Quan: Eliza, concerning your artist friend, i also believe that once an art piece is leaving the artists pencil, his interepretation is no longer more valid than others
    Eliza Madrigal: It can be Sophia.
    sophia Placebo: it actually abstract your thoughts using colors and lines
    sophia Placebo: weather you were the artist or the veiwer :)
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    genesis Zhangsun: what if Fefonz it was not really "the artists" interpretation
    genesis Zhangsun: often artists say that something spoke through them
    genesis Zhangsun: I think hearing what the artist felt was speaking through them adds to the piece
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes, what is most interesting, is that I remember the first time she painted something... she just let it go and was amazed and what came up.... she didn't set out to paint anything in particular.
    Eliza Madrigal: I tried it... and had the experience... but for me it was/is a few experiences...
    Eliza Madrigal: years later, she is far more skillful and professional....but the main thing is still that ability to let go.
    Eliza Madrigal: And wait to see
    Fefonz Quan: is it a quote from soemwhere eliza?
    Eliza Madrigal: a quote, Fef?
    Fefonz Quan: the 'she' sentences
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, my friend :) She. :)
    Pila Mulligan: creativity is sublime
    Fefonz Quan: ah, your' friend, please forgive my weak mind
    genesis Zhangsun: maybe it was a "friend"
    genesis Zhangsun: ;)
    Pila Mulligan: an observation: while arabella was here the four sitting avis to gen's left were all from warm (rl) climates, while gen and the three to her right are in more northerly places (an interesting balance)
    genesis Zhangsun: I thought thats what you meant Fefonz
    genesis Zhangsun: interesting observation Pila
    Fefonz Quan: no gen, i meant it generally
    Fefonz Quan: and i still think that whatever was teh inspiration, once the piece is done, interpretations are equally valid
    Pila Mulligan: yes, Fefonz, art is not really owned that way
    stevenaia Michinaga: I must go, see you tonight
    genesis Zhangsun: bye Steve
    Pila Mulligan: bye Steve, thanks
    sophia Placebo: bye steve
    Fefonz Quan: did i say owned?
    Eliza Madrigal: yes. That is what I meant to respond to, that she feels that way too... She listens to what others feel about it and then sees more :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Steven
    Fefonz Quan: bye Steve
    Wol Euler: bye steve
    Pila Mulligan: no, Fefonz, but I was thinking the artist does not own the interpretation
    Fefonz Quan: surely, that's exactly what i said. still it is very common for people to ask him 'what did you meant it to be' etc. and th extreme maybe is all those DVD versions of movies with extra's and explanatins and blah blah blah
    Eliza Madrigal: Once it is 'out there' it must stand on its own. The artist can guide someone to see their view..but no more really :)
    Fefonz Quan nods
    sophia Placebo: it works too on your life stories that you tell to others -some artisticly naturall ones- though it is yours but poeple share some insights incommon with yours and some may add a new ones
    sophia Placebo: same goes on books and scientific theories :) i guess
    Pila Mulligan: and an artist's inspriation is usually a matter of public curiosity
    genesis Zhangsun: yes I see Fefonz there is a sort of attaching on
    genesis Zhangsun: the artist attaches to their interpretation and sort of bleeds on with it
    Fefonz Quan: (scientific theories can a least be tested sophia)
    genesis Zhangsun: same for stories
    Eliza Madrigal: Sophia, that is so true. Someone may take an element of someone else's story and write a different story entirely!
    genesis Zhangsun: yes but the weight perhaps that is given to some theories
    genesis Zhangsun: there may be an overemphasis
    Fefonz Quan: wel, that is true too
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, sure.
    Fefonz Quan: i jsut wanted to avoid the somehow post-modernic notion of science and art are the same
    genesis Zhangsun: i see the common thread as the attachment that can come along with sharing
    Pila Mulligan: creativity may be their common element
    genesis Zhangsun: any type of sharing
    genesis Zhangsun: artistic, scientific, story telling etx
    genesis Zhangsun: yes and people attach to their creativity
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, and then attachment is a place of 'stuck' in one note
    sophia Placebo: i think the unusual way of getting to the point is what brings science with art
    genesis Zhangsun: rather than just being creative
    Pila Mulligan: I see the idea, also, gen, how launching a creation inevitably extends the creator's ideas
    Fefonz Quan: wel yes. most of most of the people are far from 'just being' anything
    genesis Zhangsun: team meeting got to go!
    Pila Mulligan: bye genesis, thank you
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye genesis
    genesis Zhangsun: bye thanks!
    sophia Placebo: bye gen
    Wol Euler: oh, me too. gotta go. bye all!
    Wol Euler: (alseep at the wheel. duh.)
    sophia Placebo: bye wol
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Wol :) hehe
    Pila Mulligan: bye Wol :)
    Fefonz Quan: me too :) bye all :)
    sophia Placebo: bye fef
    Pila Mulligan: bye Fefonz
    Eliza Madrigal: sophia, can you say more about what you see as 'unsual way of getting at things?"
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Fefonz :)
    sophia Placebo: something like un striat thinking
    Pila Mulligan: abstraction maybe
    sophia Placebo: more likly when you ask them how you get to that idea they cant explain it clearly
    sophia Placebo: they would give you un connected words
    Eliza Madrigal: Hm.. yes. It just comes from 'somewhere' 'nowhere' ? Ah... yup.
    Eliza Madrigal: Can be Abstract certainly... but that seems only once there is enough trust in base knowledge....
    sophia Placebo: ideas then become clearer with time , some popel may say that they change thier mind all the time but thats the nature of those ideas
    sophia Placebo: not from no where but maybe from many sources that are not yet connected
    Eliza Madrigal nods.
    sophia Placebo: see you later :)
    Pila Mulligan: bye sophia, thank you
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye sophia... thanks for expounding on that a bit. :)
    sophia Placebo: yvw :)
    Pila Mulligan: should we stop the recording?
    Eliza Madrigal: No need really... but if you'd like to. I was wondering what the conversation was
    Eliza Madrigal: before I got here? Attachment?
    Pila Mulligan: it began with the real life retreat center ...
    Pila Mulligan: Pema asked that 15 minutes of this session each week be on that subject
    Pila Mulligan: then moved on through several ideas to the art topic
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah... any developments there?
    Pila Mulligan: Steve asked people to let images arise during their pauses/contemplations and to then share those ideas
    Pila Mulligan: my feeling is we have a ways to go before it becomes tangible, but that the idea is doable eventually
    Eliza Madrigal: It is a great idea... Maybe in ten - fifteen years when my son is in college I can live there some of the time. : )
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I feel great btw, thanks for our talk yesterday :)
    Pila Mulligan: I'm happy to hear, did you do the Zen last night?
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes, It is at 6PM SLT here nightly and I enjoy it.
    Pila Mulligan: where is it?
    Eliza Madrigal: Zen Retreat - Reiul. The balloon here takes one there :)
    Eliza Madrigal: (oops)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Pila Mulligan: hmm, not sure i have been there yet
    Eliza Madrigal: When I first signed onto SL, that's all I did really....
    Eliza Madrigal: I like group meditation and it has been difficult to pull off in RL...
    Pila Mulligan: so is it just silent sitting or do people also chat
    Eliza Madrigal: so I couldn't get enough... was somewhere like 3x a day
    Eliza Madrigal: Just sit. On Wed night there is a Buddhist discussion
    Pila Mulligan: now this is where Stim is perplexed ....
    Pila Mulligan: and I am also not sure exactly how to take SL group meditation
    Pila Mulligan: it is interesting
    Pila Mulligan: but it is not rl group meditation
    Pila Mulligan: and the question is how does it idffer
    Eliza Madrigal: the online practice....? yes... I can see why. I have found it to be a little odd sometimes....
    Pila Mulligan: and how valid can it be for teching
    Pila Mulligan: it has a depth that surprised me actually
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Pila Mulligan: it is not a shallow substittue
    Pila Mulligan: but it is not real in the sense that Stim is used to
    Eliza Madrigal: absolutely not. It can be a shallow substitute.... if one uses or approaches it that way...
    Pila Mulligan: and so he wonders how to form expereiments that are apporpriate for SL
    Eliza Madrigal: I mean after all no one can see whether another is meditating.. but it shouldn't matter ultimately imo
    Pila Mulligan: true, and there is a sense of shared energy
    Pila Mulligan: quantum entanglement maybe :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I have scaled back to mornings and nightly online, and much of my practice is offline. There is definitely shared energy!
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Eliza Madrigal: When attending this little mini-retreat last weekend..
    Pila Mulligan: I only tried a few times in SL
    Eliza Madrigal: there were a few small discussions... and I found that I'd 'learned' a lot via SL and the communities here..
    Eliza Madrigal: not really 'trying to' mostly...
    Pila Mulligan: yes, for sure
    Pila Mulligan: just sending emails can be educational
    Pila Mulligan: adding the animation makes it even more interesting
    Eliza Madrigal: just that there rich conversation and sharing if one is up for it! :)
    Eliza Madrigal: yes certainly
    Pila Mulligan: and the continuity is also a factor -- frequent SL chats and a resulting familiarity
    Eliza Madrigal: That too!!
    Eliza Madrigal: There is a constancy
    Pila Mulligan: even if it is not in the organic manner of real life
    Pila Mulligan: it is interesting to read about real life meetings that follow this type of SL familiarity
    Pila Mulligan: usually there are both recognitions and surprises
    Eliza Madrigal: Well...but it feeds into it... certainly a flow RL/SL/DreamLife/RL/PaB/etc
    Pila Mulligan: and then, being PaB, we have to ask, what is real any way :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :) You've had that experience... were you surprised?
    Pila Mulligan: no, I have never met anyone from SL
    Pila Mulligan: if that was the question
    Eliza Madrigal: No? Why did I think you had?
    Pila Mulligan: :)?
    Pila Mulligan: dunno
    Eliza Madrigal: I seem to have created all sorts of stories around people lately. heheh
    Eliza Madrigal: I was speaking to someone the other night and half way through realized I had the wrong person in mind... overload!
    Pila Mulligan: yep, those mistakes are easy
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I thought you went to the first retreat
    Eliza Madrigal: I can tell you... I look mostly like Ferocious of any of my avatars. hahaha
    Pila Mulligan: I joined this SL group a couple of months after the first retreat was held
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Pila Mulligan: then I will not be surprised if we meet and you bark
    Eliza Madrigal: heheh.. or roar
    Pila Mulligan: is ferocious a wolf?
    Eliza Madrigal: yes :)
    Eliza Madrigal: howl then
    Pila Mulligan: have you met Susi
    Pila Mulligan: Susi means wolf in Finnish
    Eliza Madrigal: I've met Susi before... in the mornings sometimes
    Eliza Madrigal: I didn't know that
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: read it in a log
    Eliza Madrigal: I'll have to show up as Ferocious when Susi is there then
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Pila, will you make it to the next retreat?
    Pila Mulligan: well, Eliza, I probably should look to some rl stuff
    Pila Mulligan: no, i am a homebody
    Pila Mulligan: the travel effort keeps me from goting to the retreat
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah... Maybe will come to you at some point :)
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Pila :)
    Pila Mulligan: aloha
    Eliza Madrigal: Aloha!
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