2009.05.11 13:00 - Half Truths

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Stim Morane. The comments are by Stim Morane.


    Qt Core: hi Stim
    Stim Morane: Hi QT
    Qt Core: hi Scath
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello QT, Stim
    Stim Morane: Hi Scathach
    sophia Placebo: greetings all
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Sophia
    Qt Core: hi sophia
    Stim Morane: Hi sophia
    Stim Morane: well, I guess it's time to start ... any thoughts or insights+
    Stim Morane: ?
    Stim Morane: Hi Sky!
    sophia Placebo: hi sky
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Sky
    Sky Szimmer: hello everyone!
    Qt Core: hi sky
    Stim Morane: Are PaB sessions becoming more laid back?
    Stim Morane: :)
    Sky Szimmer: oh?
    Scathach Rhiadra: seems to be so:)
    sophia Placebo: :)
    sophia Placebo: hi fef
    Sky Szimmer: can't stay long but just dropping in briefly
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Fefonz, Trmel
    Qt Core: have we switched the silence periods and the talk ones ? :-)
    Fefonz Quan: Hello all :)
    sophia Placebo: hi tarmel
    Stim Morane: Sky, your schedule was the same last time. And we didn't really address the point you raised then.
    sophia Placebo: that would be a challenge qt
    Qt Core: hi fef, tarmel
    Sky Szimmer: ah. that's alright. it wasn't that interesting
    Stim Morane: Hi Fefonz, Tarmel
    Fefonz Quan: (who broght the car?)
    Fefonz Quan: brought*
    Tarmel Udimo: Hi everyone
    Stim Morane: well, would you like to start things off today, Sky?
    Sky Szimmer: oh no... if you don't mind, I'd rather be the silent observer today as my time is very short
    Stim Morane: OK
    Stim Morane: hi kaju
    Tarmel Udimo: Sky - I think if I remember right it was about the secret and manifesting what you want?
    Tarmel Udimo: it had a huge impact in RL
    Sky Szimmer: yes. that is right. i guess i am always trying to control my life and looking for the right ingredient
    Sky Szimmer: : )
    Qt Core: (a big club in most cases)
    Qt Core: ;-)
    Sky Szimmer: but that is precisely what we aren't supposed to do.
    Fefonz Quan: well, it does succeed in breaking some stuff, surprisingly :)
    Sky Szimmer: i guess the idea behind the secret is that we are constantly manifesting our "reality" by what we hold in our mind.
    Tarmel Udimo: i think that's the case
    Fefonz Quan: (just to clarify - we are talking about 'the secret' - the movie?)
    Sky Szimmer: so we make our own "reality" . Right Fefonz.
    Tarmel Udimo: yes - DVD
    Fefonz Quan: ok, thanks.
    Qt Core: is there a movie too ? i only saw several books in the bookshops, no movie
    Sky Szimmer: not a movie, but DVD or online. i didn't actually watch the whole thing
    Tarmel Udimo: hva eyou seen it Stim?
    Tarmel Udimo: have
    Stim Morane: no
    Stim Morane: But the idea has been a money-maker for generations.
    Tarmel Udimo: grins
    Fefonz Quan: if it was RL we could have a group screening :)
    Fefonz Quan: Are you this is a fale idea abused for profit Stim?
    Fefonz Quan: you suggesting
    Stim Morane: well, I'll stay neutral on this one
    Sky Szimmer: it kind of fits into the PaB idea of our lives being like an illusion and that we are playing, no?
    Stim Morane: your life doesn't have to be an illusion for it to be built out of choices, some of which are made on a very subtle, transitory level
    Stim Morane: the point is simply that you can author your life
    Stim Morane: within limits, of course
    Fefonz Quan: can you explain a bit 'author' in what way?
    Fefonz Quan: (asking also for language ignorance)
    Stim Morane: each person stands in an authorial position with respect to her life
    Stim Morane: life can be directed, and is being directed even when we think it isn't.
    Stim Morane: This gets back to the importance of what you're doing in subtle ways with your own mindn.
    Stim Morane: *mind
    Sky Szimmer: what are the limits?
    Stim Morane: I don't pretend to know, Sky.
    Stim Morane: :)
    Fefonz Quan: so not authored like controled (as a writer of a book does)?
    Stim Morane: But I'm sure we are subject to many kinds of limits.
    Stim Morane: Right, Fefonz, it's not totally a story we can contrive.
    Stim Morane: Any contemplative tradition is concerned with "getting a grip" on a life which is otherwise out of control.
    Stim Morane: The "secret" is hardly a secret.
    Stim Morane: And in one form or another, this narrow form of it continues to make money (for its promoter), generation after generation.
    Fefonz Quan: So it is proven fruitful :)
    Stim Morane: :)
    Tarmel Udimo: For some people its a revelation even if a narrow one, which is why it has an impact
    Fefonz Quan nods
    Stim Morane: Yes, I don't doubt that
    Sky Szimmer: duty calls, got to run. see you all again.
    Tarmel Udimo: it reminds the community there are other whys of being outside of the narrow confines we tend to live in
    Fefonz Quan: bye Sky
    Stim Morane: OK, thanks for dropping in
    Qt Core: bye sky
    Tarmel Udimo: bye Sky
    Tarmel Udimo: I understand what you're saying Stim and agree
    Tarmel Udimo: It does tell us that people are yearning for some 'spiritual' connection
    Tarmel Udimo: which always surprises me
    Fefonz Quan: why surprise Tarmel?
    Stim Morane: Yes, or at least some hope for being able to get control
    Tarmel Udimo: I should say outside of orthodox religion
    Tarmel Udimo: not everyone is priviliged to hear the words we hear:)
    sophia Placebo: hi genesis:)
    Stim Morane: Hi gen!
    Qt Core: hi geensis
    Fefonz Quan: yes, but the yearning comes i believe from suffering and hard times, and then is quite common
    Fefonz Quan: Hello Gen
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Gen
    genesis Zhangsun: Hi Stim!
    Fefonz Quan: that
    genesis Zhangsun: Hi everyone!
    Tarmel Udimo: Hi gen
    Stim Morane: brb
    Tarmel Udimo: Hi gen, we've been talking about the secret - the DVD
    genesis Zhangsun: ty Tarmel
    genesis Zhangsun: a lot of buzz huh?
    Tarmel Udimo: yes
    Tarmel Udimo: will give you the chat log:)
    Stim Morane: back
    Tarmel Udimo: WB Stim
    Stim Morane: did i miss a secret?
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Tarmel Udimo: hehehe
    Stim Morane: Does kaju have opinions about this PaB stuff?
    Tarmel Udimo: Oh Kaju is a Jedi master
    Stim Morane: AH
    Tarmel Udimo: she has been teaching me many Dragon secrets:)
    Stim Morane: Yes
    Stim Morane: in return for which you carry her around
    Tarmel Udimo: exactly
    Tarmel Udimo: Sh'es in control
    Tarmel Udimo: working on her script so she can speak to humans
    Stim Morane: yes. I think that is the case for every domestic parrot
    Tarmel Udimo: grins
    Tarmel Udimo: I was quite impacted by Pila's article that ws discussed in ways of knowing sesson
    Stim Morane: say more?
    Tarmel Udimo: It was about the Truth of who we are for those who were not there
    Stim Morane: it was a good article ... I appreciated him taking the time to write and post it for us
    Stim Morane: http://ways-of-knowing.wik.is/6Writi...ays/Satyagraha
    Tarmel Udimo: It has made me really observe this idea
    Tarmel Udimo: and what are lies and what are truths
    Stim Morane: I'm sure he would be gratified to hear that
    Tarmel Udimo: yes must remember to tell him
    Tarmel Udimo: its made me realise how deeply ingrained half truths are
    Tarmel Udimo: well not a full realization:)
    Stim Morane: well it's definitely a point that's important to contemplative practice ... that everything we take for granted has a somewhat limited status
    genesis Zhangsun: could you explain Stim?
    Stim Morane: any feature of existence has a limited status ... it's not the bedrock we assume
    Stim Morane: at least, this is the view of contemplative traditions, and presumaby of PaB too.
    genesis Zhangsun: sorry I am little fuzzy today could you explain how this relates to being untruthful?
    Stim Morane: Self and others, near and far, now and then … none of these are bedrock
    Stim Morane: it's not so much a matter of being untruthful, as of being "limited"
    Fefonz Quan: 'near and far, true and false'?
    genesis Zhangsun: ah so not "lying" but not having the capacity to hold a larger truth?
    sophia Placebo: limited tendency or cabibility to tell the truthe?
    Stim Morane: yes, gen ... at least that's what I thought we were saying earlier. I might have misunderstood.
    Stim Morane: But I see from your comment, sophia, and your, Fefonz, that there are other angles here too.
    Stim Morane: Sorry, my own comment was itself "limited"
    Stim Morane: :)
    Tarmel Udimo: I guess for me it was impacting on a more personal level
    sophia Placebo: ok so the truth in its self is not static and we have limitaions to know everything?
    Tarmel Udimo: it was round actually once and for all actually taking on the precepts and not just thinking about them
    Tarmel Udimo: Being truthful what ever that means
    Tarmel Udimo: even if limited
    Tarmel Udimo: we /I have so many ways of lying to onesself
    Stim Morane: well, that was my intention, Tarmel
    Tarmel Udimo: so I have just been noticing how subtle these are
    Stim Morane: it's easy to think about things without ever seeing into them, or taking them seriously
    Tarmel Udimo: yes I took you point that day "very seriously" :)
    Tarmel Udimo: *your
    Stim Morane: and yes, sophia, I agree with your comments. We can't know everything and truth is not carved in concrete
    Stim Morane: But we can become more aware of the ways in which we are living a lie, or even living in an ordinary way that seems true but in fact takes some things for granted which in fact could be opened up in some way.
    Stim Morane: That much we can know, and can do ...
    Tarmel Udimo: now I get the link:)
    genesis Zhangsun: me too :)
    Tarmel Udimo: it's not easy though
    Stim Morane: what have you noticed, Tarmel?
    Fefonz Quan: so comfortable to take things for granted sometimes
    Tarmel Udimo: how one hides behind certain aspects of ways of being - that says this is Me
    sophia Placebo: one can add too some words that keeps his saying within the truth span that others can see as if to say this is what i know or what im aware of or this is my opinion or my feelings , i think these words are part of telling the truth
    sophia Placebo: everyone knows you dont know everything
    Fefonz Quan agrees with Sophia
    Tarmel Udimo: I think this goes beyond opnions or thoughts or all that
    Tarmel Udimo: one continues to live the way one always does and says the things one always says
    Tarmel Udimo: but in observing this I have started to see the holes
    Stim Morane: good
    Tarmel Udimo: and in fact none of it means much really
    Stim Morane: :)
    Tarmel Udimo: they allow us to function as we must
    sophia Placebo: i see
    Stim Morane: I think the simple pleasures in life have staying power ... unless they're in fact just bad habits.
    Stim Morane: :)
    Tarmel Udimo: hehehe
    genesis Zhangsun: [13:58] Tarmel Udimo: they allow us to function as we must
    genesis Zhangsun: are you serious?
    genesis Zhangsun: we must?
    Tarmel Udimo: hummm I meant we have to contune functioning in the world
    Tarmel Udimo: as it is
    genesis Zhangsun: you mean with half truths?
    Fefonz Quan: as there is no price to pay for the truth? i think there is a price there
    Stim Morane: I'll have to duck out ... thanks for the chat!
    Fefonz Quan: bye stim
    genesis Zhangsun: bye Stim
    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Stim
    sophia Placebo: bye stim
    Qt Core: bye Stim
    Stim Morane: bye everyone
    Tarmel Udimo: bye Stim
    Tarmel Udimo: no I meant it more simply, as one is observing and changing and trying to maintain our practise we still have to function in the wolrd
    genesis Zhangsun: okay I understand
    Tarmel Udimo: as we must unless we decide to be a total contemplative and get ourselves into a monastry:)
    genesis Zhangsun: I thought you were concluding with the position of the "stranger" that started Pila's piece
    Tarmel Udimo: which would be great!
    Fefonz Quan: sure, in a way this functioninig is not seperable from teh practice
    Qt Core: supposing we ever worked welkl in it ;-)
    Tarmel Udimo: no not separate it is the prectise
    Tarmel Udimo: practise
    Fefonz Quan: merging the practice and the world maybe the real goal, not leaving one behind
    genesis Zhangsun: yes agreed Fefonz
    Tarmel Udimo: nods
    Tarmel Udimo: I am off to Storm's Play workshop
    genesis Zhangsun: see you!
    Fefonz Quan: bye Tarmel
    genesis Zhangsun: I am out of here too
    Tarmel Udimo: sorry to go, this has been a good discussion
    genesis Zhangsun: bye!
    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Tarmel, see you later
    Fefonz Quan: yes it has :)
    genesis Zhangsun: bye Fefonz, Tarmel, and Scathach
    Fefonz Quan: bye Gen,
    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Gen
    Scathach Rhiadra: Bye Fefonz, QT, Namaste
    Fefonz Quan: Namaste, Scath
    Qt Core: bye Scath
    Fefonz Quan: and bye, Qt
    Qt Core: bye Fefonz
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