2009.05.13 13:00 - Eyes Wide Shut

The Guardian for this meeting was genesis Zhangsun. The comments are by genesis Zhangsun.

Fael Illyar: Hi Aurel :)
aurel Miles: Hi Fael
aurel Miles: :)
aurel Miles: how are you?
Fael Illyar: Hi Gen :)
aurel Miles: hi gen
Fael Illyar: Hello Randolph :)
genesis Zhangsun: Hi
Randolph Rothmanay: Hello, I'm new here; pleased to meet you!
genesis Zhangsun: this is my friend Randolph in RL
Fael Illyar: ah, joined SL to see what this PaB is about?
genesis Zhangsun: yes exactly, she is a student of Steven Stim
Fael Illyar: Ah :)
genesis Zhangsun: I am showing her the ropes
Fael Illyar: Welcome :)
Fael Illyar: Randolph, can you tell how you got interested in Play as Being?
Fael Illyar: and why :)
Fael Illyar: Hi Fefonz :)
genesis Zhangsun: Hi fefonz
Fefonz Quan: Hello Gen, Fael, Aurel, Randolph and other unrezzeres :)
aurel Miles: Hello fefonz
Fael Illyar: no unrezzeres here :)
aurel Miles: and everyone i missed - clearing out ims, excuse me
aurel Miles: nice to meet you Randolph
Randolph Rothmanay: Thank you...I'm interested to talk to people with whom I might share a mental world: the arts, philosophy, cultural criticism, historical anayalysis, Buddhism...etc etc
genesis Zhangsun: (fefonz, aurel: randolph is new, one of steven's students)
genesis Zhangsun: we are here in Berkeley
genesis Zhangsun: and I am getting randoph oriented
aurel Miles: yes, you mentiioned
Fefonz Quan: cool, nice to meet you Randolf
Fefonz Quan: brb
aurel Miles: i was clearing out ims - but i was also keeping up, just not greeting, sorry to be rude.
aurel Miles: we share a lot of interests
Randolph Rothmanay: Great!
genesis Zhangsun: so anyone have any PaB related things to discuss?
Fael Illyar: Hi Corvi :)
genesis Zhangsun: Hi Corvi!
Fefonz Quan: Hi Corvi :)
aurel Miles: Hi Corvi
Corvuscorva Nightfire arries breathlessly
Corvuscorva Nightfire: hi all
aurel Miles: Spring has finally come to Ottawa
aurel Miles: do the seasons alter your practice?
aurel Miles: they have such an impact on me
aurel Miles: how does everyone else perceive the change?
Fael Illyar: the change of spring to summer mostly has the effect that my nose gets runny :)
Fael Illyar: and eyes a bit itchy.
genesis Zhangsun: I definitely notice an difference in energetic level
Fael Illyar: althoug, interestingly, I haven't needed pills to deal with it this year... it's stayed relatively mild.
Fefonz Quan: yes, i love the spring, the winter here was awful
aurel Miles: poor Fefonz
aurel Miles: i know this part of the world can be very hostile in winter
aurel Miles: and spring comes late
Fefonz Quan: all this snow and cold, it's like prisoning you at your own home
aurel Miles: you can learn to love it a little - i did
Fefonz Quan: even the trees remembered to get green again only 2 weeks ago
aurel Miles: ha
aurel Miles: here, in ottawa, they are still unfurling
aurel Miles: tender and green
aurel Miles: patience takes a long time to cultivate
Fefonz Quan: and indeed, i believe the energies and modds change according to seasons.
aurel Miles: almost all of my friends seem to be being reborn right now
Fael Illyar: Oh, yes, I've been feeling quite more light with the sun shining again :)
Fefonz Quan: some traditions take it into account, changing the intentional practice accordingly
Fefonz Quan: emphasizing inner work in autumn/winter, and more external work on spring / summer
genesis Zhangsun: what is "external" work?
Fefonz Quan: more active work, more towards interaction outside, more energetic practices etc., less 'diving inside yourself' practices
Fael Illyar: perhaps it's learning to deal with external things and in winter concentrating on learning to deal with yourself?
Fefonz Quan: yes, that's too
Fefonz Quan: like there is some synchronizatin between the macro (ouside universe) and the micro (internal world),
Fael Illyar: although, both are really learning to deal with yourself but ... :)
Fael Illyar: the first option seems more difficult
Fefonz Quan: sure, i agree Fael
aurel Miles: in BC the Haida people make the same distinctions - winter is time for deep ceremonies, lots of mystical stuff
aurel Miles: in spring the focus moves outward
aurel Miles: i suppose it only makes sense
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
aurel Miles: Hello Yakuzza
Fael Illyar: Hello Yakuzza
Fefonz Quan: Hey Yakuzza
Fael Illyar: yes... so, winter is kind of like power save mode :)
aurel Miles: i'm not good at sitting in silence today and i do not want to be the one talking
aurel Miles: won't somebody tell a story or something????????????????
aurel Miles: please????????????
Yakuzza Lethecus: i just came to read just to see and participate silently
Yakuzza Lethecus: i am curious, but last time i just slept away during the event when i participated :)
Fefonz Quan: i thought this week about the difference between closed eyes practice and open eyes one
Fael Illyar: I'd love to tell a story but ... hmmh... I wonder if I can come up with one.
Yakuzza Lethecus: but that was related to the late time :)
genesis Zhangsun: oh good one Fefonz
genesis Zhangsun: so what are your thoughts
Fefonz Quan: until i came to PaB, most sitting meditations i did with eyes closed (vipassana wise, just to say),
Randolph Rothmanay: I''m not saying much because I'm just getting to know this totally new circumstance, new "beings' and I'm not very skilled with my computer !
Fael Illyar: I've used to do closed eyes practise because ... well, I just couldn't help my eyes closing. I've got some ideas on what could be the reason based on some more recent experiences though.
Fefonz Quan: yet i had experiences with walking meditation, which is (naturally:) with eyes open
Fael Illyar: but yes, walking meditation kind of has to be eyes open :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: really, aren´t fee supposed to feel our environment ? :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: we
Fefonz Quan: other wise you can practice lgiving up control and pain quite intensively :)
Fefonz Quan: (to Fael)
Fefonz Quan: BUT - PaB practices, mostly observing appearances, drive me strongly to open eyes
Fael Illyar: I found later that it's more difficult for me to just accept when my eyes are open.
Yakuzza Lethecus: So what is supposed to be a topic here ?
Fael Illyar: during a walking meditation
Fefonz Quan: what is the difference yakizza, and how does everybody experience it
Fael Illyar: my eyes kept wanting to close and I kind of had to figure out why and there it was. Then I could keep them open when I realized it.
Fefonz Quan: i think that is the temporary subject :)
Fefonz Quan: and what did you realize Fael?
Fael Illyar: I realized that I was having problems accepting that I see ... as strange as that sounds. It's more pronounced when I took off my glasses. That's how I found out.
Fefonz Quan: makes a lot of sense fael
genesis Zhangsun: well so much of our existence is being pulled out of our eyes all the time
genesis Zhangsun: absorbing us
Fefonz Quan: i also found that relaxation/peacefulnes wise, closed eyes are the easier way
genesis Zhangsun: closing one's eyes can help regain energy sometimes
Fefonz Quan nods
genesis Zhangsun: though I think an open eye meditation can be a good challenge
genesis Zhangsun: the first time I started an open eye meditation was not too long ago in Jan with wall gazing
Randolph Rothmanay: Our existence (including language) is (very nearly) dominated by the visual...
Fefonz Quan: i heard one yoga teacher saying, that just by closing our eyes about 70 muscles in our next get more relaxed automatically
genesis Zhangsun: I believe it
Fael Illyar: next?
Fael Illyar: neck?
Fefonz Quan: i think the 'wall gazing', if it is a uniform one, is like one step ahead,
Fefonz Quan: yes fael sorry :)
genesis Zhangsun: yes in what way Fefonz?
Fefonz Quan: the eyes are open, but the visual stimuly is quite low -
Fefonz Quan: constant, without many patterns and shapes to 'track
Fefonz Quan: '
Randolph Rothmanay: I think if one could integrate the increased degree of inner focus (and the various changes that brings) eyes closed brings with eyes open...that would be some level of accomplishment
genesis Zhangsun: indeed so in what way is it one step ahead?
Fefonz Quan: i meant one step between closed and opened eyes
genesis Zhangsun: yes indeed Randolph
genesis Zhangsun: yes I agree with that Fefonz
genesis Zhangsun: on the other hand it can be even more challenging than open eyes with lots of stimuli
genesis Zhangsun: because staring at a wall can sometimes make you completely nuts
Fefonz Quan: yes randolph, and i am very familiar with that experience, after you open your eyes
genesis Zhangsun: and hopefully in a crazy wisdom way
Fefonz Quan: yes, this is similar to closed eyes Gen :)
Fael Illyar: oh, come to think of it, I've meditated eyes open once ... with my half brother hanging on my neck for a bit during it too :)
genesis Zhangsun: it is and it isn't
Randolph Rothmanay: (speculating) One might be less reactive to the illusory nature of what presents itself in the visual field as "real"
genesis Zhangsun: I think it can make it even more clear than with closed eyes the way we interpret the world through our mind
Fael Illyar: (he's 5)
genesis Zhangsun: we see the "writing" on the wall literally
genesis Zhangsun: all of our attempts to make the experience something that its not
Fael Illyar: I was surprised afterwards that I wasn't disturbed at all :)
Fefonz Quan: yes Gen, that was the point i started with. the explorations we do here - PaB, YSBS, APA etc. are much easier to exploer while lokking outside
Fefonz Quan: since we play a lot with the appearances of teh reality around us.
aurel Miles: yes
genesis Zhangsun: yes simple objects I think can be instructive, more complex objects it is harder to tell what is there and what you are projecting
aurel Miles: closed eyes during meditation nearly always results in sleep for me
Fefonz Quan: and closing eyes, we tend to see our feelings as more 'inner'
Randolph Rothmanay: .are simple objects more like an inanimate thing and complex object...is that something like a person? other people?
Fefonz Quan: yes Gen, with complex object, its harder to drop teh automatic filters we use, that define shape, color, meaning, etc.
genesis Zhangsun: yes people are the most difficult I think Randolph
Fefonz Quan: i find televisin screens most uninstructive, more than people
Fefonz Quan: because i consider them and illusions to start with
Fefonz Quan: as*
Randolph Rothmanay: YEs, for me the most difficult as well; but we project a "real" existence on all phenomena around us....I live in this (unremittingly)
aurel Miles: i like to look at the sky.
Fael Illyar: Hi Eliza :)
Randolph Rothmanay: Yes! Sky-gazing is a great method of opening vision and relaxing constricted thought.
genesis Zhangsun: I have to go!
Fael Illyar: Well, it's late here. I'll head to bed for today :) See you all later :)
aurel Miles: excuse me everyone - thank you for including me
Yakuzza Lethecus: cya everyone
aurel Miles: bye for now
genesis Zhangsun: bye everyone!
Fael Illyar waves.
Fefonz Quan: me too. Bye All :)
Randolph Rothmanay: Goodbye to everyone 'til next time!
genesis Zhangsun: team meeting