2009.05.13 13:00 - Eyes Wide Shut

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    The Guardian for this meeting was genesis Zhangsun. The comments are by genesis Zhangsun.

    Fael Illyar: Hi Aurel :)
    aurel Miles: Hi Fael
    aurel Miles: :)
    aurel Miles: how are you?
    Fael Illyar: Hi Gen :)
    aurel Miles: hi gen
    Fael Illyar: Hello Randolph :)
    genesis Zhangsun: Hi
    Randolph Rothmanay: Hello, I'm new here; pleased to meet you!
    genesis Zhangsun: this is my friend Randolph in RL
    Fael Illyar: ah, joined SL to see what this PaB is about?
    genesis Zhangsun: yes exactly, she is a student of Steven Stim
    Fael Illyar: Ah :)
    genesis Zhangsun: I am showing her the ropes
    Fael Illyar: Welcome :)
    Fael Illyar: Randolph, can you tell how you got interested in Play as Being?
    Fael Illyar: and why :)
    Fael Illyar: Hi Fefonz :)
    genesis Zhangsun: Hi fefonz
    Fefonz Quan: Hello Gen, Fael, Aurel, Randolph and other unrezzeres :)
    aurel Miles: Hello fefonz
    Fael Illyar: no unrezzeres here :)
    aurel Miles: and everyone i missed - clearing out ims, excuse me
    aurel Miles: nice to meet you Randolph
    Randolph Rothmanay: Thank you...I'm interested to talk to people with whom I might share a mental world: the arts, philosophy, cultural criticism, historical anayalysis, Buddhism...etc etc
    genesis Zhangsun: (fefonz, aurel: randolph is new, one of steven's students)
    genesis Zhangsun: we are here in Berkeley
    genesis Zhangsun: and I am getting randoph oriented
    aurel Miles: yes, you mentiioned
    Fefonz Quan: cool, nice to meet you Randolf
    Fefonz Quan: brb
    aurel Miles: i was clearing out ims - but i was also keeping up, just not greeting, sorry to be rude.
    aurel Miles: we share a lot of interests
    Randolph Rothmanay: Great!
    genesis Zhangsun: so anyone have any PaB related things to discuss?
    Fael Illyar: Hi Corvi :)
    genesis Zhangsun: Hi Corvi!
    Fefonz Quan: Hi Corvi :)
    aurel Miles: Hi Corvi
    Corvuscorva Nightfire arries breathlessly
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: hi all
    aurel Miles: Spring has finally come to Ottawa
    aurel Miles: do the seasons alter your practice?
    aurel Miles: they have such an impact on me
    aurel Miles: how does everyone else perceive the change?
    Fael Illyar: the change of spring to summer mostly has the effect that my nose gets runny :)
    Fael Illyar: and eyes a bit itchy.
    genesis Zhangsun: I definitely notice an difference in energetic level
    Fael Illyar: althoug, interestingly, I haven't needed pills to deal with it this year... it's stayed relatively mild.
    Fefonz Quan: yes, i love the spring, the winter here was awful
    aurel Miles: poor Fefonz
    aurel Miles: i know this part of the world can be very hostile in winter
    aurel Miles: and spring comes late
    Fefonz Quan: all this snow and cold, it's like prisoning you at your own home
    aurel Miles: you can learn to love it a little - i did
    Fefonz Quan: even the trees remembered to get green again only 2 weeks ago
    aurel Miles: ha
    aurel Miles: here, in ottawa, they are still unfurling
    aurel Miles: tender and green
    aurel Miles: patience takes a long time to cultivate
    Fefonz Quan: and indeed, i believe the energies and modds change according to seasons.
    aurel Miles: almost all of my friends seem to be being reborn right now
    Fael Illyar: Oh, yes, I've been feeling quite more light with the sun shining again :)
    Fefonz Quan: some traditions take it into account, changing the intentional practice accordingly
    Fefonz Quan: emphasizing inner work in autumn/winter, and more external work on spring / summer
    genesis Zhangsun: what is "external" work?
    Fefonz Quan: more active work, more towards interaction outside, more energetic practices etc., less 'diving inside yourself' practices
    Fael Illyar: perhaps it's learning to deal with external things and in winter concentrating on learning to deal with yourself?
    Fefonz Quan: yes, that's too
    Fefonz Quan: like there is some synchronizatin between the macro (ouside universe) and the micro (internal world),
    Fael Illyar: although, both are really learning to deal with yourself but ... :)
    Fael Illyar: the first option seems more difficult
    Fefonz Quan: sure, i agree Fael
    aurel Miles: in BC the Haida people make the same distinctions - winter is time for deep ceremonies, lots of mystical stuff
    aurel Miles: in spring the focus moves outward
    aurel Miles: i suppose it only makes sense
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
    aurel Miles: Hello Yakuzza
    Fael Illyar: Hello Yakuzza
    Fefonz Quan: Hey Yakuzza
    Fael Illyar: yes... so, winter is kind of like power save mode :)
    aurel Miles: i'm not good at sitting in silence today and i do not want to be the one talking
    aurel Miles: won't somebody tell a story or something????????????????
    aurel Miles: please????????????
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i just came to read just to see and participate silently
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i am curious, but last time i just slept away during the event when i participated :)
    Fefonz Quan: i thought this week about the difference between closed eyes practice and open eyes one
    Fael Illyar: I'd love to tell a story but ... hmmh... I wonder if I can come up with one.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but that was related to the late time :)
    genesis Zhangsun: oh good one Fefonz
    genesis Zhangsun: so what are your thoughts
    Fefonz Quan: until i came to PaB, most sitting meditations i did with eyes closed (vipassana wise, just to say),
    Randolph Rothmanay: I''m not saying much because I'm just getting to know this totally new circumstance, new "beings' and I'm not very skilled with my computer !
    Fael Illyar: I've used to do closed eyes practise because ... well, I just couldn't help my eyes closing. I've got some ideas on what could be the reason based on some more recent experiences though.
    Fefonz Quan: yet i had experiences with walking meditation, which is (naturally:) with eyes open
    Fael Illyar: but yes, walking meditation kind of has to be eyes open :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: really, aren´t fee supposed to feel our environment ? :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: we
    Fefonz Quan: other wise you can practice lgiving up control and pain quite intensively :)
    Fefonz Quan: (to Fael)
    Fefonz Quan: BUT - PaB practices, mostly observing appearances, drive me strongly to open eyes
    Fael Illyar: I found later that it's more difficult for me to just accept when my eyes are open.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: So what is supposed to be a topic here ?
    Fael Illyar: during a walking meditation
    Fefonz Quan: what is the difference yakizza, and how does everybody experience it
    Fael Illyar: my eyes kept wanting to close and I kind of had to figure out why and there it was. Then I could keep them open when I realized it.
    Fefonz Quan: i think that is the temporary subject :)
    Fefonz Quan: and what did you realize Fael?
    Fael Illyar: I realized that I was having problems accepting that I see ... as strange as that sounds. It's more pronounced when I took off my glasses. That's how I found out.
    Fefonz Quan: makes a lot of sense fael
    genesis Zhangsun: well so much of our existence is being pulled out of our eyes all the time
    genesis Zhangsun: absorbing us
    Fefonz Quan: i also found that relaxation/peacefulnes wise, closed eyes are the easier way
    genesis Zhangsun: closing one's eyes can help regain energy sometimes
    Fefonz Quan nods
    genesis Zhangsun: though I think an open eye meditation can be a good challenge
    genesis Zhangsun: the first time I started an open eye meditation was not too long ago in Jan with wall gazing
    Randolph Rothmanay: Our existence (including language) is (very nearly) dominated by the visual...
    Fefonz Quan: i heard one yoga teacher saying, that just by closing our eyes about 70 muscles in our next get more relaxed automatically
    genesis Zhangsun: I believe it
    Fael Illyar: next?
    Fael Illyar: neck?
    Fefonz Quan: i think the 'wall gazing', if it is a uniform one, is like one step ahead,
    Fefonz Quan: yes fael sorry :)
    genesis Zhangsun: yes in what way Fefonz?
    Fefonz Quan: the eyes are open, but the visual stimuly is quite low -
    Fefonz Quan: constant, without many patterns and shapes to 'track
    Fefonz Quan: '
    Randolph Rothmanay: I think if one could integrate the increased degree of inner focus (and the various changes that brings) eyes closed brings with eyes open...that would be some level of accomplishment
    genesis Zhangsun: indeed so in what way is it one step ahead?
    Fefonz Quan: i meant one step between closed and opened eyes
    genesis Zhangsun: yes indeed Randolph
    genesis Zhangsun: yes I agree with that Fefonz
    genesis Zhangsun: on the other hand it can be even more challenging than open eyes with lots of stimuli
    genesis Zhangsun: because staring at a wall can sometimes make you completely nuts
    Fefonz Quan: yes randolph, and i am very familiar with that experience, after you open your eyes
    genesis Zhangsun: and hopefully in a crazy wisdom way
    Fefonz Quan: yes, this is similar to closed eyes Gen :)
    Fael Illyar: oh, come to think of it, I've meditated eyes open once ... with my half brother hanging on my neck for a bit during it too :)
    genesis Zhangsun: it is and it isn't
    Randolph Rothmanay: (speculating) One might be less reactive to the illusory nature of what presents itself in the visual field as "real"
    genesis Zhangsun: I think it can make it even more clear than with closed eyes the way we interpret the world through our mind
    Fael Illyar: (he's 5)
    genesis Zhangsun: we see the "writing" on the wall literally
    genesis Zhangsun: all of our attempts to make the experience something that its not
    Fael Illyar: I was surprised afterwards that I wasn't disturbed at all :)
    Fefonz Quan: yes Gen, that was the point i started with. the explorations we do here - PaB, YSBS, APA etc. are much easier to exploer while lokking outside
    Fefonz Quan: since we play a lot with the appearances of teh reality around us.
    aurel Miles: yes
    genesis Zhangsun: yes simple objects I think can be instructive, more complex objects it is harder to tell what is there and what you are projecting
    aurel Miles: closed eyes during meditation nearly always results in sleep for me
    Fefonz Quan: and closing eyes, we tend to see our feelings as more 'inner'
    Randolph Rothmanay: .are simple objects more like an inanimate thing and complex object...is that something like a person? other people?
    Fefonz Quan: yes Gen, with complex object, its harder to drop teh automatic filters we use, that define shape, color, meaning, etc.
    genesis Zhangsun: yes people are the most difficult I think Randolph
    Fefonz Quan: i find televisin screens most uninstructive, more than people
    Fefonz Quan: because i consider them and illusions to start with
    Fefonz Quan: as*
    Randolph Rothmanay: YEs, for me the most difficult as well; but we project a "real" existence on all phenomena around us....I live in this (unremittingly)
    aurel Miles: i like to look at the sky.
    Fael Illyar: Hi Eliza :)
    Randolph Rothmanay: Yes! Sky-gazing is a great method of opening vision and relaxing constricted thought.
    genesis Zhangsun: I have to go!
    Fael Illyar: Well, it's late here. I'll head to bed for today :) See you all later :)
    aurel Miles: excuse me everyone - thank you for including me
    Yakuzza Lethecus: cya everyone
    aurel Miles: bye for now
    genesis Zhangsun: bye everyone!
    Fael Illyar waves.
    Fefonz Quan: me too. Bye All :)
    Randolph Rothmanay: Goodbye to everyone 'til next time!
    genesis Zhangsun: team meeting
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