2009.05.15 19:00 - Support-Power-Subject-Object

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Geo Netizen. The comments are by Geo Netizen.


    (** The Gathering and Greetings **)


    Geo Netizen: Hi Yakuzza
    Geo Netizen: Hi Eos
    Geo Netizen: Hi Adams
    Eos Amaterasu: Hello Adams
    Adams Rubble: Hello Geo, Eos :)
    Geo Netizen: Hi Eliza
    Adams Rubble: Hello Eliza :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hey Eos, Adams :)
    Eos Amaterasu: Hey!
    Geo Netizen: Hi Pila
    Adams Rubble: Hello Pila :)
    Eos Amaterasu: ^_^
    Eliza Madrigal: Hey Pila! :)
    Pila Mulligan: greetings everyone
    Eliza Madrigal: Felicitations
    Adams Rubble: Hello Sophia :)
    Geo Netizen: Hi SophiaSharon
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sophiasharon! :)
    Pila Mulligan: hi SophiaSharon
    Eliza Madrigal: How's everyone?
    Geo Netizen is good :)
    Pila Mulligan: fine, thanks, Eliza -- and you?
    Adams Rubble: I'm fine :) and you?
    Eliza Madrigal: Extraordinarily well thank you
    Geo Netizen smiles


    (** RL Community Based Support Groups modeled on PaB **)


    Pila Mulligan: yesterday at this time Eos and I briefly touched on the potential for PaB styled social interaction to deal with community difficulties
    Pila Mulligan: the particular difficulty in mind then was a recent catastrophic fire that destroyed and damaged a number of homes in Eos's neighborhood
    Pila Mulligan: I wonder if having sessions like this in real life would be of help, in such difficulties or just in general
    Eliza Madrigal: Hm...elaborate Pila? Community meetings?
    Geo Netizen: That suggestion makes me think of support groups
    Pila Mulligan: yes and yes
    Eliza Madrigal: It seems that someone could make a space... but often in neighborhoods people don't like to meet regularly....
    Adams Rubble: Wow, hello Sky :)))
    Pila Mulligan: well, our SL meetings are simply available
    Geo Netizen: Hi Sky
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sky! :)
    Pila Mulligan: hi Sky
    Sky Szimmer: hi everyone!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Sky
    Eliza Madrigal: In general Pila, it is of course a great idea....
    Pila Mulligan: it may take some trial and error to see how it best works in rl, but it is an interesting idea
    Eliza Madrigal: and people can lean on others if they are already comfortable with them... when there is a group at least in place
    Adams Rubble: Local groups are an interesting idea
    Adams Rubble: tough for some people though
    Eliza Madrigal: I've been considering putting up a notice in my neighborhood for people to come and meditate... not sure yet
    Pila Mulligan: yes, and part of the difficulty relates to scheduling
    Geo Netizen: Such groups tend to form around a common interest or issue
    Eos Amaterasu: Kind of like a small open park


    (** 1915: 15 minute bell **)


    Pila Mulligan: so establishing several times a day when people can visit a place and see if others also arrivee there may solve part of the scheduling difficulty
    Pila Mulligan: kind of a support-as-available thing
    Eliza Madrigal nods...yes just leaving the space open :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Of course there will always need to be a 'main person' who does that I think... the ::;drumroll:: community organizer! :)
    Pila Mulligan: if such an activity had been established already, before a catastrophe, then it would seem to naturally slip into a support-recovery function
    Geo Netizen: Probably would need the equivalent of the GoC - the one committed to each time slot
    Pila Mulligan: yep
    Pila Mulligan: conversely, if the activity was established after a catastrophe as a support-recovery function, then it may naturally continue to function and evolve afterwards
    Eliza Madrigal: Sure
    Geo Netizen nods
    Geo Netizen: an official purpose but much room for exploring
    Geo Netizen: PaB for us here but we roam extensively
    Eliza Madrigal: yes we do:)
    Eliza Madrigal: wander off... but know where to wander back....
    Geo Netizen nods
    Adams Rubble wanders off in search of sleep
    Adams Rubble: good night all :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Feel well Adams
    Eliza Madrigal: Night
    Pila Mulligan: bye Adams -- sweet dreams
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)


    (** Can a hat be a Kōan? **)


    Eliza Madrigal: May not want to sleep in the hat....
    Geo Netizen nite Adams
    Eliza Madrigal: hehe
    Eliza Madrigal: (Hosted zazen in hats tonight...was funny)
    Geo Netizen ?
    Eliza Madrigal: I wore a hat....
    Eliza Madrigal: so then others started with the hats...
    Eliza Madrigal: by the end Isen was a jester :)
    Eliza Madrigal: probably highly inappropriate!
    Eliza Madrigal giggles
    Geo Netizen examines that mental picture
    Geo Netizen chuckles
    Eliza Madrigal: :D
    Geo Netizen: If a hat helps opening the hand of thought then …. :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :) a hat makes a person happy
    Eliza Madrigal: open hearted...
    Eliza Madrigal: well, this sort of hat...


    (** 1930: 15 minute bell **)


    Eos Amaterasu: space wears many hats :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: Ahhhhh :)
    Eos Amaterasu: the play's the thing
    Eliza Madrigal: wherein we ...
    Geo Netizen: Is beginning to see how a hat could be a Kōan :))
    Eliza Madrigal nods and smiles
    Sky Szimmer: slips away quietly.... goodnight all
    Geo Netizen: Jester on Isen .... hmmmmmm
    Pila Mulligan: bye Sky
    Eliza Madrigal: Night Sky :)
    Eos Amaterasu: catch the being of the thing
    Geo Netizen: G'nite Sky
    Eos Amaterasu: 'night sky
    Eliza Madrigal: heheh Eos
    Eos Amaterasu: Wow
    Eliza Madrigal: (streaker with clothes on)


    (** An av ran up to the pagoda and continued on by and into the distance without slacking speed **)


    Pila Mulligan: jogger :)
    Geo Netizen chuckles
    SophiaSharon Larnia slips off as well, good night :))
    Geo Netizen: G'nite
    Eliza Madrigal: Night SophiaSharon, good to see you :)
    Eos Amaterasu: good night, SophiaSharon
    Pila Mulligan: bye Sophis Sharon
    Pila Mulligan: a*
    Eliza Madrigal: b*
    Pila Mulligan: Sophib?
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: a wise lie
    Eliza Madrigal giggles
    Pila Mulligan: a hearty pun
    Eliza Madrigal digs for deep topics but materializes only the hat itself
    Geo Netizen: Tis enough for much thought :)


    (** Zhao in several appearances **)


    Pila Mulligan: have you noticed the cards on your hat Eliza?
    Eliza Madrigal: yes... I imagine they say "Shop at Flashy's"
    Pila Mulligan: no, the face seems to say ZHAO
    Eliza Madrigal: (the hat came with shoes)
    Pila Mulligan: I wonder what Zhao represents on the cards
    Geo Netizen: There is an ace of spades
    Eos Amaterasu: tao?
    Pila Mulligan: yes
    Pila Mulligan: yes, ace of spades
    Geo Netizen: There is a SL place called Zhao Shoes
    Pila Mulligan: Zhao was the name of an old Chinese kingdom
    Eliza Madrigal: yes.... was reading that just now Pila... you made me curious...
    Pila Mulligan: not to be confused (but maybe) with the Zhou Dynasty
    Geo Netizen: Then there's Zhao Ziyang of more recent prominence
    Eliza Madrigal: was hoping it would say something to the effect of "Zhao is the secret door "... you are HERE. hahah
    Eliza Madrigal: (though I am and we all are)
    Eliza Madrigal is silly... has dealt with a cold and headaches for a few days...
    Eliza Madrigal: and today has been such an odd, fun energy
    Eliza Madrigal: ah Pila, the actress
    Eliza Madrigal: Nope...


    (** 1945: 15 minute bell **)


    Pila Mulligan: fun energy is its own reward
    Eliza Madrigal obviously knows less than nothing about Chinese history :)
    Pila Mulligan: Zhao Ziyang was 'Emperor' during the Tiananmen Square period
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Eliza Madrigal: not an actress then.... ahahah
    Geo Netizen: The Secret Journal of Zhao Ziyang, based on 30 hours of secretly taped recordings were recently smuggled out of China
    Pila Mulligan: he was deposed for sympathizing with the protestors
    Geo Netizen nods
    Eliza Madrigal: yes....
    Geo Netizen: His name has been officially suppressed but .....
    Pila Mulligan: ... maybe it *is* his name that appears on the cards :)
    Eos Amaterasu: synchronicity
    Eliza Madrigal: Good to notice things twice
    Eos Amaterasu: how we're tied to that event and people
    Geo Netizen nods
    Eos Amaterasu: big pool of being
    Geo Netizen: He will be (is) remembered with honor by many
    Pila Mulligan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananm...otests_of_1989
    Eos Amaterasu: sounds like material for an opera, the voice suppressed
    Eos Amaterasu: he had a certain hat to wear
    Geo Netizen smiles
    Eliza Madrigal: Hmm, yes.. roles can be more than things to shed...
    Eos Amaterasu: it's good to bring all our hats to zazen
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: all of our hats even
    Geo Netizen: Close the circle
    Geo Netizen smiles
    Eliza Madrigal is too sleepy to stay on another second....
    Pila Mulligan: an old Chinese academic, who was there when the communists took over, told me that at first Mao Tse Tung was quite liberal in welcoming criticism -- but that he turned 180 degrees in that regard after visiting Stalin
    Geo Netizen: G'Nite Eliza
    Pila Mulligan: ah, bye Eliza -- sleep well
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: thank you all for a lovely night .... am putting on my sleeping cap Hahha
    Eliza Madrigal: { } Nite


    (** Power and some comments on its power **)


    Geo Netizen: To hold power changes one :(
    Eos Amaterasu: Yes, you get the karma of power holding you
    Geo Netizen nods
    Geo Netizen: Well said
    Eos Amaterasu: Being must be let in to how we hold power


    (** 2000: 15 minute bell **)


    Geo Netizen: But I think you are so very right, one does not hold power, an attempt to hold power places you in the hold of power.
    Geo Netizen: It become your master
    Eos Amaterasu: I guess that where you really need to learn, like
    Eos Amaterasu: how to go with wu wei (so to speak)
    Geo Netizen: Yet it is a proper path to constantly give up power ... to yield power ... to be the one of service to others.
    Eos Amaterasu: I guess you serve their best intentions
    Geo Netizen: Very interesting way to put it ... I will have to reflect more on that ...
    Eos Amaterasu: In a way good will is an under-mobilized resource
    Geo Netizen chuckles and nods


    (** An aspect of subject-object relation (intentionality?) **)


    Pila Mulligan: for context, I think of a few centuries ago when farmers wanted a successful harvest -- to supplement their fundamental agricultural efforts, some probably relied on prayer, some on talismans or some kind of mojo, and there were no doubt various other ways to seek alignment with the deities of good crops -- I wonder if any of their efforts succeeded in fact, averting drought or pests or whatever?
    Pila Mulligan: could -x- supplement skill?
    Geo Netizen: I am of the opinion that it did to the extent that their efforts of prayers and supplications affect them and their neighbors :)
    Pila Mulligan: yes, that seems reasonable
    Geo Netizen: (and that from a deist)
    Pila Mulligan: reminds me of Jung's 'Answer to Job'
    Eos Amaterasu: it could be seen as cultivating that inner place from which change comes
    Geo Netizen nods to both
    Pila Mulligan: so then, Eos, they could tap a source of luck?
    Eos Amaterasu: what is the source of luck? :-)
    Pila Mulligan: that's the second question
    Eos Amaterasu: I think their source and the source of luck are one and the same !!!
    Pila Mulligan: my feeling is that it is possible to affect weather and such to some degree by inner connetcedness or some similarly obscure sounding thing
    Eos Amaterasu: (positive) hum
    Geo Netizen: or to adjust what we can to accommodate the weather that is


    (** 2015: 15 minute bell**)


    Pila Mulligan: well, Geo, I recently read an article that associated luck with psychological outlook, but I'm inclined to add a metaphysical dimension also
    Pila Mulligan: an obscure something that works
    Eos Amaterasu: if your purpose is vast enough
    Geo Netizen: I would neither deny the possibility nor insist on it in specific cases
    Eos Amaterasu: you can command coincidence
    Geo Netizen: Have I equivocated enough? :))
    Eos Amaterasu: coincidence commands you
    Pila Mulligan: part of my view relates to having seen rainmaking so often that it is not surprising
    Geo Netizen nods
    Eos Amaterasu: yeah, I haven't literally seen it myself, but have heard from "credible sources"
    Pila Mulligan: but if you insist on it then it is likely to fail
    Pila Mulligan: in such case 'coincidence' is non-cooperative
    Geo Netizen nods again
    Eos Amaterasu: actually I have been through dramatic incidents of rain and thunder
    Geo Netizen: Yes ... I believe I sense your point here
    Pila Mulligan: me too :)
    Pila Mulligan: drama in the incident being its relatedness
    Eos Amaterasu: sometimes we feel there is a spirit in things
    Pila Mulligan: yep :)
    Pila Mulligan: something we can follow, something we can also approach
    Eos Amaterasu: we hope so, cause it's kind of our mother
    Pila Mulligan: my mother was a bad-ass drunk, so I choose different metaphors :)
    Eos Amaterasu: hmm


    (** A reminder that there is no metaphor that works for everyone; a fundamental limit to the usefulness of metaphors **)
    Pila Mulligan: unless it is a metaphor like 'that cop is a real mother'
    Pila Mulligan: with apologies for any unintended offense :)
    Eos Amaterasu: nah, the cornucopia offers up everything
    Pila Mulligan: but yes, Eos, the mother image of nature and being is what I was referring to initially also
    Eos Amaterasu: This space has a nice space in nature feeling
    Eos Amaterasu: Even weather around us
    Geo Netizen: Mother as in ‘one who nurtures’
    Pila Mulligan: :)


    (** Circle back to RL Community Based Support Groups **)


    Eos Amaterasu: a PaB gazebo in the corner of a park, next to the basketball court
    Eos Amaterasu: you'd need a critical mass in the neighborhood
    Pila Mulligan: or even a small room in a church or community center, or even a picnic table in a park ....
    Geo Netizen nods
    Pila Mulligan: 'build it and they will come'
    Eos Amaterasu: In Canada the place could include in the many many Tim Horton's coffee shops
    Pila Mulligan: then winter would be less challenging :)
    Geo Netizen: Space is not necessarily important ... only to the extent that it support the relation connection which is important
    Geo Netizen: So Tim Horton may be good
    Pila Mulligan: availability counts, peacefulness helps, natural surroundings also help


    (** 2030: 15 minute bell **)


    Geo Netizen: Would either of you mind if I closed the log?
    Geo Netizen: Tis time for me retire so I’m functional tomorrow.
    Pila Mulligan: ... and coffee shops seem traditionally associated with this type of activity
    Pila Mulligan: not at all
    Geo Netizen: Hope you all have a great weekend
    Eos Amaterasu: Yes, It's pretty late here too, ciao!
    Pila Mulligan: thanks Geo, same to you -- rest well


    (** [2009/05/15 20:32]PaB Listener Master: Recording has stopped, the session is ended. **)
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