2009.05.15 19:00 - Support-Power-Subject-Object

The Guardian for this meeting was Geo Netizen. The comments are by Geo Netizen.

(** The Gathering and Greetings **)

Geo Netizen: Hi Yakuzza
Geo Netizen: Hi Eos
Geo Netizen: Hi Adams
Eos Amaterasu: Hello Adams
Adams Rubble: Hello Geo, Eos :)
Geo Netizen: Hi Eliza
Adams Rubble: Hello Eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hey Eos, Adams :)
Eos Amaterasu: Hey!
Geo Netizen: Hi Pila
Adams Rubble: Hello Pila :)
Eos Amaterasu: ^_^
Eliza Madrigal: Hey Pila! :)
Pila Mulligan: greetings everyone
Eliza Madrigal: Felicitations
Adams Rubble: Hello Sophia :)
Geo Netizen: Hi SophiaSharon
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sophiasharon! :)
Pila Mulligan: hi SophiaSharon
Eliza Madrigal: How's everyone?
Geo Netizen is good :)
Pila Mulligan: fine, thanks, Eliza -- and you?
Adams Rubble: I'm fine :) and you?
Eliza Madrigal: Extraordinarily well thank you
Geo Netizen smiles

(** RL Community Based Support Groups modeled on PaB **)

Pila Mulligan: yesterday at this time Eos and I briefly touched on the potential for PaB styled social interaction to deal with community difficulties
Pila Mulligan: the particular difficulty in mind then was a recent catastrophic fire that destroyed and damaged a number of homes in Eos's neighborhood
Pila Mulligan: I wonder if having sessions like this in real life would be of help, in such difficulties or just in general
Eliza Madrigal: Hm...elaborate Pila? Community meetings?
Geo Netizen: That suggestion makes me think of support groups
Pila Mulligan: yes and yes
Eliza Madrigal: It seems that someone could make a space... but often in neighborhoods people don't like to meet regularly....
Adams Rubble: Wow, hello Sky :)))
Pila Mulligan: well, our SL meetings are simply available
Geo Netizen: Hi Sky
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sky! :)
Pila Mulligan: hi Sky
Sky Szimmer: hi everyone!
SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Sky
Eliza Madrigal: In general Pila, it is of course a great idea....
Pila Mulligan: it may take some trial and error to see how it best works in rl, but it is an interesting idea
Eliza Madrigal: and people can lean on others if they are already comfortable with them... when there is a group at least in place
Adams Rubble: Local groups are an interesting idea
Adams Rubble: tough for some people though
Eliza Madrigal: I've been considering putting up a notice in my neighborhood for people to come and meditate... not sure yet
Pila Mulligan: yes, and part of the difficulty relates to scheduling
Geo Netizen: Such groups tend to form around a common interest or issue
Eos Amaterasu: Kind of like a small open park

(** 1915: 15 minute bell **)

Pila Mulligan: so establishing several times a day when people can visit a place and see if others also arrivee there may solve part of the scheduling difficulty
Pila Mulligan: kind of a support-as-available thing
Eliza Madrigal nods...yes just leaving the space open :)
Eliza Madrigal: Of course there will always need to be a 'main person' who does that I think... the ::;drumroll:: community organizer! :)
Pila Mulligan: if such an activity had been established already, before a catastrophe, then it would seem to naturally slip into a support-recovery function
Geo Netizen: Probably would need the equivalent of the GoC - the one committed to each time slot
Pila Mulligan: yep
Pila Mulligan: conversely, if the activity was established after a catastrophe as a support-recovery function, then it may naturally continue to function and evolve afterwards
Eliza Madrigal: Sure
Geo Netizen nods
Geo Netizen: an official purpose but much room for exploring
Geo Netizen: PaB for us here but we roam extensively
Eliza Madrigal: yes we do:)
Eliza Madrigal: wander off... but know where to wander back....
Geo Netizen nods
Adams Rubble wanders off in search of sleep
Adams Rubble: good night all :)
Eliza Madrigal: :) Feel well Adams
Eliza Madrigal: Night
Pila Mulligan: bye Adams -- sweet dreams
Eos Amaterasu: :-)

(** Can a hat be a Kōan? **)

Eliza Madrigal: May not want to sleep in the hat....
Geo Netizen nite Adams
Eliza Madrigal: hehe
Eliza Madrigal: (Hosted zazen in hats tonight...was funny)
Geo Netizen ?
Eliza Madrigal: I wore a hat....
Eliza Madrigal: so then others started with the hats...
Eliza Madrigal: by the end Isen was a jester :)
Eliza Madrigal: probably highly inappropriate!
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Geo Netizen examines that mental picture
Geo Netizen chuckles
Eliza Madrigal: :D
Geo Netizen: If a hat helps opening the hand of thought then …. :)
Eliza Madrigal: :) a hat makes a person happy
Eliza Madrigal: open hearted...
Eliza Madrigal: well, this sort of hat...

(** 1930: 15 minute bell **)

Eos Amaterasu: space wears many hats :-)
Eliza Madrigal: Ahhhhh :)
Eos Amaterasu: the play's the thing
Eliza Madrigal: wherein we ...
Geo Netizen: Is beginning to see how a hat could be a Kōan :))
Eliza Madrigal nods and smiles
Sky Szimmer: slips away quietly.... goodnight all
Geo Netizen: Jester on Isen .... hmmmmmm
Pila Mulligan: bye Sky
Eliza Madrigal: Night Sky :)
Eos Amaterasu: catch the being of the thing
Geo Netizen: G'nite Sky
Eos Amaterasu: 'night sky
Eliza Madrigal: heheh Eos
Eos Amaterasu: Wow
Eliza Madrigal: (streaker with clothes on)

(** An av ran up to the pagoda and continued on by and into the distance without slacking speed **)

Pila Mulligan: jogger :)
Geo Netizen chuckles
SophiaSharon Larnia slips off as well, good night :))
Geo Netizen: G'nite
Eliza Madrigal: Night SophiaSharon, good to see you :)
Eos Amaterasu: good night, SophiaSharon
Pila Mulligan: bye Sophis Sharon
Pila Mulligan: a*
Eliza Madrigal: b*
Pila Mulligan: Sophib?
Pila Mulligan: :)
Eos Amaterasu: a wise lie
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Pila Mulligan: a hearty pun
Eliza Madrigal digs for deep topics but materializes only the hat itself
Geo Netizen: Tis enough for much thought :)

(** Zhao in several appearances **)

Pila Mulligan: have you noticed the cards on your hat Eliza?
Eliza Madrigal: yes... I imagine they say "Shop at Flashy's"
Pila Mulligan: no, the face seems to say ZHAO
Eliza Madrigal: (the hat came with shoes)
Pila Mulligan: I wonder what Zhao represents on the cards
Geo Netizen: There is an ace of spades
Eos Amaterasu: tao?
Pila Mulligan: yes
Pila Mulligan: yes, ace of spades
Geo Netizen: There is a SL place called Zhao Shoes
Pila Mulligan: Zhao was the name of an old Chinese kingdom
Eliza Madrigal: yes.... was reading that just now Pila... you made me curious...
Pila Mulligan: not to be confused (but maybe) with the Zhou Dynasty
Geo Netizen: Then there's Zhao Ziyang of more recent prominence
Eliza Madrigal: was hoping it would say something to the effect of "Zhao is the secret door "... you are HERE. hahah
Eliza Madrigal: (though I am and we all are)
Eliza Madrigal is silly... has dealt with a cold and headaches for a few days...
Eliza Madrigal: and today has been such an odd, fun energy
Eliza Madrigal: ah Pila, the actress
Eliza Madrigal: Nope...

(** 1945: 15 minute bell **)

Pila Mulligan: fun energy is its own reward
Eliza Madrigal obviously knows less than nothing about Chinese history :)
Pila Mulligan: Zhao Ziyang was 'Emperor' during the Tiananmen Square period
Eliza Madrigal nods
Eliza Madrigal: not an actress then.... ahahah
Geo Netizen: The Secret Journal of Zhao Ziyang, based on 30 hours of secretly taped recordings were recently smuggled out of China
Pila Mulligan: he was deposed for sympathizing with the protestors
Geo Netizen nods
Eliza Madrigal: yes....
Geo Netizen: His name has been officially suppressed but .....
Pila Mulligan: ... maybe it *is* his name that appears on the cards :)
Eos Amaterasu: synchronicity
Eliza Madrigal: Good to notice things twice
Eos Amaterasu: how we're tied to that event and people
Geo Netizen nods
Eos Amaterasu: big pool of being
Geo Netizen: He will be (is) remembered with honor by many
Pila Mulligan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananm...otests_of_1989
Eos Amaterasu: sounds like material for an opera, the voice suppressed
Eos Amaterasu: he had a certain hat to wear
Geo Netizen smiles
Eliza Madrigal: Hmm, yes.. roles can be more than things to shed...
Eos Amaterasu: it's good to bring all our hats to zazen
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: all of our hats even
Geo Netizen: Close the circle
Geo Netizen smiles
Eliza Madrigal is too sleepy to stay on another second....
Pila Mulligan: an old Chinese academic, who was there when the communists took over, told me that at first Mao Tse Tung was quite liberal in welcoming criticism -- but that he turned 180 degrees in that regard after visiting Stalin
Geo Netizen: G'Nite Eliza
Pila Mulligan: ah, bye Eliza -- sleep well
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Eliza Madrigal: thank you all for a lovely night .... am putting on my sleeping cap Hahha
Eliza Madrigal: { } Nite

(** Power and some comments on its power **)

Geo Netizen: To hold power changes one :(
Eos Amaterasu: Yes, you get the karma of power holding you
Geo Netizen nods
Geo Netizen: Well said
Eos Amaterasu: Being must be let in to how we hold power

(** 2000: 15 minute bell **)

Geo Netizen: But I think you are so very right, one does not hold power, an attempt to hold power places you in the hold of power.
Geo Netizen: It become your master
Eos Amaterasu: I guess that where you really need to learn, like
Eos Amaterasu: how to go with wu wei (so to speak)
Geo Netizen: Yet it is a proper path to constantly give up power ... to yield power ... to be the one of service to others.
Eos Amaterasu: I guess you serve their best intentions
Geo Netizen: Very interesting way to put it ... I will have to reflect more on that ...
Eos Amaterasu: In a way good will is an under-mobilized resource
Geo Netizen chuckles and nods

(** An aspect of subject-object relation (intentionality?) **)

Pila Mulligan: for context, I think of a few centuries ago when farmers wanted a successful harvest -- to supplement their fundamental agricultural efforts, some probably relied on prayer, some on talismans or some kind of mojo, and there were no doubt various other ways to seek alignment with the deities of good crops -- I wonder if any of their efforts succeeded in fact, averting drought or pests or whatever?
Pila Mulligan: could -x- supplement skill?
Geo Netizen: I am of the opinion that it did to the extent that their efforts of prayers and supplications affect them and their neighbors :)
Pila Mulligan: yes, that seems reasonable
Geo Netizen: (and that from a deist)
Pila Mulligan: reminds me of Jung's 'Answer to Job'
Eos Amaterasu: it could be seen as cultivating that inner place from which change comes
Geo Netizen nods to both
Pila Mulligan: so then, Eos, they could tap a source of luck?
Eos Amaterasu: what is the source of luck? :-)
Pila Mulligan: that's the second question
Eos Amaterasu: I think their source and the source of luck are one and the same !!!
Pila Mulligan: my feeling is that it is possible to affect weather and such to some degree by inner connetcedness or some similarly obscure sounding thing
Eos Amaterasu: (positive) hum
Geo Netizen: or to adjust what we can to accommodate the weather that is

(** 2015: 15 minute bell**)

Pila Mulligan: well, Geo, I recently read an article that associated luck with psychological outlook, but I'm inclined to add a metaphysical dimension also
Pila Mulligan: an obscure something that works
Eos Amaterasu: if your purpose is vast enough
Geo Netizen: I would neither deny the possibility nor insist on it in specific cases
Eos Amaterasu: you can command coincidence
Geo Netizen: Have I equivocated enough? :))
Eos Amaterasu: coincidence commands you
Pila Mulligan: part of my view relates to having seen rainmaking so often that it is not surprising
Geo Netizen nods
Eos Amaterasu: yeah, I haven't literally seen it myself, but have heard from "credible sources"
Pila Mulligan: but if you insist on it then it is likely to fail
Pila Mulligan: in such case 'coincidence' is non-cooperative
Geo Netizen nods again
Eos Amaterasu: actually I have been through dramatic incidents of rain and thunder
Geo Netizen: Yes ... I believe I sense your point here
Pila Mulligan: me too :)
Pila Mulligan: drama in the incident being its relatedness
Eos Amaterasu: sometimes we feel there is a spirit in things
Pila Mulligan: yep :)
Pila Mulligan: something we can follow, something we can also approach
Eos Amaterasu: we hope so, cause it's kind of our mother
Pila Mulligan: my mother was a bad-ass drunk, so I choose different metaphors :)
Eos Amaterasu: hmm

(** A reminder that there is no metaphor that works for everyone; a fundamental limit to the usefulness of metaphors **)
Pila Mulligan: unless it is a metaphor like 'that cop is a real mother'
Pila Mulligan: with apologies for any unintended offense :)
Eos Amaterasu: nah, the cornucopia offers up everything
Pila Mulligan: but yes, Eos, the mother image of nature and being is what I was referring to initially also
Eos Amaterasu: This space has a nice space in nature feeling
Eos Amaterasu: Even weather around us
Geo Netizen: Mother as in ‘one who nurtures’
Pila Mulligan: :)

(** Circle back to RL Community Based Support Groups **)

Eos Amaterasu: a PaB gazebo in the corner of a park, next to the basketball court
Eos Amaterasu: you'd need a critical mass in the neighborhood
Pila Mulligan: or even a small room in a church or community center, or even a picnic table in a park ....
Geo Netizen nods
Pila Mulligan: 'build it and they will come'
Eos Amaterasu: In Canada the place could include in the many many Tim Horton's coffee shops
Pila Mulligan: then winter would be less challenging :)
Geo Netizen: Space is not necessarily important ... only to the extent that it support the relation connection which is important
Geo Netizen: So Tim Horton may be good
Pila Mulligan: availability counts, peacefulness helps, natural surroundings also help

(** 2030: 15 minute bell **)

Geo Netizen: Would either of you mind if I closed the log?
Geo Netizen: Tis time for me retire so I’m functional tomorrow.
Pila Mulligan: ... and coffee shops seem traditionally associated with this type of activity
Pila Mulligan: not at all
Geo Netizen: Hope you all have a great weekend
Eos Amaterasu: Yes, It's pretty late here too, ciao!
Pila Mulligan: thanks Geo, same to you -- rest well