2009.05.18 07:00 - (Not an) Interview With An Avatar

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      Today Adams, Seti and I met for coffee and talk.  -- KalCal



     Greetings Earthling! ...

    Adams Dubrovna: Good morning Kallie :)
    Kallie Kira: hi Adams :)
    Adams Dubrovna: I think this is the first time I have met you as Kallie :)
    Kallie Kira: :)
    Kallie Kira: how did your lecture go yesterday?
    Adams Dubrovna: Oh it went well thank you. I hope people enjoyed it
    Kallie Kira: good turnout? I was unfortunately offline
    Kallie Kira: ty :)
    Adams Dubrovna: Yes, I think it was at least 15. I lost the chat log and Wol is going to send it tonight
    Kallie Kira: wow! excellent
    Kallie Kira: not the loosing, the 15 :)
    Adams Dubrovna: hehe


    Big shoutout to the autologger team ...

    Adams Dubrovna: Now that the PaB logs are sent to us I forget to check the chat status on each computer with each avatar
    Adams Dubrovna: It gets a bit nutty
    Kallie Kira: I am crazy for the autologger ... it makes my life easier (thank you autologger gods/godesses)
    Adams Dubrovna: here here
    Adams Dubrovna: :)
    Adams Dubrovna: Yes, and it keeps getting better :)
    Kallie Kira: yeah it does ... I have started commenting again with the time not used cleaning the text up, fwiw :)
    Adams Dubrovna: :)
    Adams Dubrovna: Yes, that does make it much faster


    Adams and I settle in to talk over "appreciate the presence of appearance" ...

    Kallie Kira: what's new? I have been considering the "appreciate the presence of appearance" suggestion.... you?
    Adams Dubrovna: I've been a bit distracted but it is something I have been doing a bit all along, just not as the sole activity
    Adams Dubrovna: Pema made some interesting observations the other night
    Kallie Kira: do you recall them?
    Adams Dubrovna: yes
    Adams Dubrovna: When he stops for the 20 minutes...
    Adams Dubrovna: and appreciates everything
    Adams Dubrovna: he begins to take it lightly
    Adams Dubrovna: then he begins to see from the heart rather than the eyes
    Adams Dubrovna: It is Love emerging
    Adams Dubrovna: It seems a bit of a long route to get to the Love
    Adams Dubrovna: but it has my attention :)
    Kallie Kira: it rings true
    Kallie Kira: we arrive in different ways and times maybe
    Adams Dubrovna: yes


    Seti sits down with us and we introduce play as being ...

    Adams Dubrovna: hello Seti :)
    Kallie Kira: hi Seti :)
    Seti Chronowire: Hello
    Kallie Kira: nice to meet you :)
    Seti Chronowire: Same
    Kallie Kira: new to sl?
    Seti Chronowire: No, are you?
    Kallie Kira: lol, no :)
    Seti Chronowire: Why are conversations recorded here?
    Kallie Kira: so others in the play as being discussion group can read about the session
    Seti Chronowire: I see
    Kallie Kira: is it ok to include your comments?
    Seti Chronowire: Is this a "session" I walked in on? If so, sorry about that.
    Kallie Kira: everyone is welcome
    Seti Chronowire: It's ok if you want to have stupid stuff in your recording.
    Kallie Kira: and yes, someone is here at 7 and 1, 24 hours
    Seti Chronowire: What do you mean by session?
    Kallie Kira: I'm sure it won't be "stupid" :)
    Seti Chronowire: Don't be so sure.
    Kallie Kira: have you been to this before? you can find info at http://playasbeing.wik.is .... the premise, the logs, other stuff


    A little more intro info ...

    Seti Chronowire: No, I have not been here before. I'd rather hear you tell me, as that is more interesting than reading it.
    Kallie Kira: the idea is to practice a form of micromeditation.... instead of sitting for very long times for years on end, to stop (for example) every 15 min for 9 seconds, to stop, drop what you're thinking and see what you get ... often times there are suggested approaches .... the point being to stop, see what is really present, not what you think about what is present
    Kallie Kira: then we get together, here for example and share that experience
    Seti Chronowire: I see. By this you mean that we do this in RL while sitting in front of the computer in SL, right?
    Kallie Kira: here, there, anywhere, it doesn't matter
    Adams Dubrovna: Or whatever we are doing in RL


    More info ...

    Seti Chronowire: OK and SL provides a forum in which to exchange what we think?
    Kallie Kira: while we're here at the pavilion, a bell goes off every 15 min ... you can do the practice then for ... wait for it, an eternity of 1.5 min :)
    Adams Dubrovna: Our avatars sometimes help us see the world differently too
    Adams Dubrovna: :)
    Kallie Kira: yes, sl is a forum to meet and share
    Seti Chronowire: Yes, I noticed the bell, but didn't quite get what it was for.
    Seti Chronowire: I guess I interrupted your post-bell discussion.
    Kallie Kira: yes, the bell is an opportunity to stop .... no, not an interruption, we are glad you're here :)


    Seti asks for more info ...

    Seti Chronowire: Would you see this as a form of ritual or ritualized behavior?
    Adams Dubrovna: not ritual here
    Seti Chronowire: Why not?
    Kallie Kira: no, I don't see it as such
    Adams Dubrovna: just self exploration
    Kallie Kira: people can come or not
    Seti Chronowire: We might have different definitions or "ritual": I tend to see meditation as a form of ritual (not of the wedding/funeral type, but of the type that allows people to focus their minds).
    Kallie Kira: people come a lot then stop coming, or take the steady come frequently approach, some I've never met


    And some definition/vocabulary info ...

    Seti Chronowire: So you would see ritual as being required, rather than free to participate in or not?
    Kallie Kira: you've hit an important aspect in your first 30 min ... vocabulary :)
    Adams Dubrovna: ritual is a misleading term
    Seti Chronowire: Vocabulary is always an important aspect in any conversation
    Kallie Kira: exactly
    Seti Chronowire: I wouldn't say ritual is misleading, rather it is complex
    Adams Dubrovna: If you want to call it ritual it is fine with us :)


    Seti is interested in cultural anthropology ...

    Seti Chronowire: Actually, I'm really interested in what you want to call it. I should probably explain myself.
    Kallie Kira: yeah, we are taking the anthropological approach, yes?
    Seti Chronowire: I'm an anthropologist doing research in SL focused on contexts of religion and ritual performance. I'm quite interested in how SL is used for these types of things.
    Kallie Kira: yes I saw your profile and guessed as much :)
    Seti Chronowire: You read my information...
    Kallie Kira: lol, yes :)
    Seti Chronowire: I could probably block that out, but would rather than people know what I am doing.
    Kallie Kira: it's what's so, it's perfect the way it is :)
    Seti Chronowire: SL is really quite intriguing. I've spent a fair amount of time looking at right-wing Christain locations; fascinating.
    Seti Chronowire: So what did you all do/think during the 90 seconds?
    Kallie Kira: I look out my big picture window, notice the land, breathe, sometimes I'm distracted, making lists, parsing, sometimes I just notice... I'm not sure, what's there I guess
    Seti Chronowire: I was just fidgeting and drinking coffee


    Seti's experience with Zen meditation ...

    Kallie Kira: do you meditate Seti?
    Kallie Kira: (noticing your tag)
    Seti Chronowire: I have done so--largely when in Japan.
    Seti Chronowire: I've meditated at a zen temple a few times.
    Kallie Kira: what was that like for you?
    Seti Chronowire: Um, boring.
    Kallie Kira: how do you mean, just not into it?
    Seti Chronowire: I should add that I am a musician and I see that as a form of meditation of sorts.
    Seti Chronowire: No I meant that it was boring. I kept falling asleep.
    Adams Dubrovna: yes, it is
    Seti Chronowire: Then the damn priest would whack me on the back with a long stick...
    Adams Dubrovna: :)
    Kallie Kira: lol
    Kallie Kira: you're kidding right?
    Seti Chronowire: I wasn't laughing much at the time. No, I am not kidding. That is how zen meditation is done in Japan. You sit forever on your knees and when you begin to pass out, the priest whacks you--hard.
    Kallie Kira: I can see where your impressions are based :)
    Seti Chronowire: Then you try to stand up and because your legs are numb, you fall over and break your ankle.
    Seti Chronowire: I liked the experience, however.


    The study of religions in SL ...

    Kallie Kira: maybe meditation is more useful to you in a less strict setting? :)
    Seti Chronowire: I don't know, the zen folks in Japan (at least the monks, not ordinary people) have got some good ideas if you are into that stuff.
    Kallie Kira: sure, lots to offer and you can learn from all sources without having to take on a belief structure
    Seti Chronowire: Agreed, although in moving around to some of the Christian locations in SL, I have found a rather different opinion on that one
    Kallie Kira: I'm curious what you mean by that
    Seti Chronowire: Bible thumpers quoting verse to tell me that the only god is the Christian god and the only Christianity is the one they profess.
    Kallie Kira: whacking you with a stick? :)
    Seti Chronowire: Verbally, at least. More like a bludgeon.
    Seti Chronowire: I don't mind, just find it fascinating.


    Why people come to PaB ...

    Adams Dubrovna: What other experiences have you had?
    Seti Chronowire: Gosh, I'm 47, I don't think I could type them all here.
    Seti Chronowire: I'v forgotten most of the ones from under the age of 10.
    Kallie Kira: one of the metaphors that's been discussed here is about wearing things lightly like a loose garment, sometimes the "thumpers" appear to be a kind of opposite to that
    Seti Chronowire: The wear armor--mostly over their ears. So why do you come here?
    Adams Dubrovna: We come here to share experiences
    Seti Chronowire: of what?
    Adams Dubrovna: and learn from one another
    Adams Dubrovna: well, specifically about our experiences with the 9 second pauses every 15 minutes
    Seti Chronowire: You haven't said much about your experiences, Adams.
    Adams Dubrovna: :)


    A question, "what does that mean" ...

    Kallie Kira: Adams and I have known each other a good while and we were settling into a discussion about an approach to the 9sec which includes an idea to "appreciate the presence of appearance"
    Seti Chronowire: What does that mean? I'm not clear on that.
    Seti Chronowire: And by "known" do you mean in SL only?
    Adams Dubrovna: Play as being has been an important part of my life for the past year and I have said a good bit about my experience over that year
    Adams Dubrovna: There is a good bit in the logs on the Wiki


    Are we being interviewed?  ...

    Kallie Kira: lol, you are very forthright in your questioning :)
    Seti Chronowire: Do you feel a sense of community here? sorry, don't mean to be pushy, just very curious. I'll have to read the logs.
    Kallie Kira: yes, read, watch, learn, contribute :)
    Kallie Kira: yes, it is a community for sure
    Adams Dubrovna: we have a great deal of respect for each other
    Adams Dubrovna: we have shared a good deal
    Kallie Kira: yes, there is an established level of trust ... don't you think Adams?
    Seti Chronowire: I'm asking a bit more abstract of a question here. Do you feel a sense of communal connection of a spiritual kind?
    Kallie Kira: I feel like I'm in an interview
    Kallie Kira: :)
    Seti Chronowire: You are.


    What do people get out of SL? ...

    Adams Dubrovna: You just feel comfortable about walking into a session and interviewing people?
    Seti Chronowire: If you want to stop, just say so. I don't mean to pry, just really want to know. But you are completely free to tell me to stop.
    Kallie Kira: so, have you come to learn and contribute or to gather data?  :)
    Seti Chronowire: I've come to learn something. I ask a lot of questions to do so.
    Kallie Kira: what do you wish to learn?
    Seti Chronowire: In that sense, I guess it's an interview.
    Kallie Kira: how it "works"?
    Adams Dubrovna: We do not have an agenda
    Seti Chronowire: I'm not sure what "works" means. I'm interested in understanding what people get out of SL.
    Adams Dubrovna: we do not have dogma
    Seti Chronowire: No, it doesnt' seem that you do, which is refreshing.
    Adams Dubrovna: we just learn from one another
    Kallie Kira: people get whatever they want to get :)


    Learninig about human behavior ...

    Seti Chronowire: sorry, I didn't mean to put you on the defensive. And when I said, "you are" it was a bit of a joke. In the sense that I am an anthropologist, I am always trying to learn about human behavior, so I am always sort of interviewing people. Kind of goes with the territory.
    Kallie Kira: not defensive but sensing your agenda
    Adams Dubrovna: yes
    Seti Chronowire: What's my agenda?
    Kallie Kira: to find out about human behavior - "I am always trying to learn about human behavior, so I am always sort of interviewing people"
    Kallie Kira: that's a little different than being with us :)
    Seti Chronowire: Well yes that's it. Right now, I'm not doing any formal study of SL -- might at some time in the future. If so, would you be interested in being interviewed?
    Kallie Kira: not really, but thanks :)


    OK, it's not an interview :) ...

    Seti Chronowire: I wonder how different it really is. You both seem to be trying to understand something.
    Kallie Kira: how different what really is?
    Seti Chronowire: What you are doing and what I am doing.
    Adams Dubrovna: We are not gathering information but finding ways to look at reality
    Kallie Kira: interviewing the cosmos, not people :)
    Adams Dubrovna: :)
    Seti Chronowire: Let me be clear, I didn't come here to interview anyone. We just got talking and I asked the kinds of questions that I tend to ask. So I apologize if I offended you.
    Seti Chronowire: People are part of the cosmos.
    Kallie Kira: not offended :)
    Kallie Kira: more curious
    Seti Chronowire: I am interested in finding new ways of looking at reality, too. That is what the study of culture is all about. Feel free to interview me, if you want.
    Seti Chronowire: In fact, I've devoted my life to trying to understand different ways of seeing and constructing reality.


    Goodbye's ...

    Adams Dubrovna: RL is calling. I must go. Bye Kallie and Seti :)
    Kallie Kira: nah, don't want to interview you (and thank you) ... if you return, you will reveal yourself without that
    Seti Chronowire: Bye
    Kallie Kira: yep, me too, gotta go  :)
    Kallie Kira: nice to meet you :)
    Seti Chronowire: Nice to meet you too. Sorry to have bothered you, though. Really didn't mean to do so.
    Kallie Kira: you did not bother us, it was an interesting discussion
    Kallie Kira: perhaps we will meet again :)
    Seti Chronowire: It was for me. I found this place quite appealing from a personal perspective.
    Kallie Kira: good :)
    Kallie Kira: everyone is welcome
    Kallie Kira: bye :)

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