2009.05.25 13:00 - Competition

The Guardian for this meeting was Stim Morane. The comments are by Stim Morane.

Scathach Rhiadra: Hello stim
Stim Morane: Hi Scathach!
Stim Morane: How are you today?
Scathach Rhiadra: fine thank you, and you?
Stim Morane: OK, just a bit scattered.
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Gaya
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Scath and Stim :)
Stim Morane: Hi Gaya
Gaya Ethaniel: How are you both?
Scathach Rhiadra: I'm fine thank you, and you?
Gaya Ethaniel: I'm well too thanks :)
Stim Morane: Same here ...
Gaya Ethaniel: btw what does Scathach means Scath?
Scathach Rhiadra: heh, Scáth means shadow
Fael Illyar: Hi Stim, Gaya, Scath :)
Scathach Rhiadra: so Scáthach means the shadowy one:)
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Fael :)
Stim Morane: Hi Fael
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Fael
Gaya Ethaniel: ah ... a shadow ... why did you choose it?
Scathach Rhiadra: it is an old Irish name from mythology
Gaya Ethaniel: :) sounds intriguing.
Scathach Rhiadra: the original Scáthach was a warrior and martial arts teacher
Fael Illyar: Hi Eliza :)
Gaya Ethaniel: ah ... cool :)
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Fael, Stim, Gaya, Scath :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Eliza :)
Stim Morane: Hi Eliza
Gaya Ethaniel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sc%C3%A1thach
Scathach Rhiadra: oh that is her all right!
Eliza Madrigal: :)
sophia Placebo: greeting all
Eliza Madrigal: Hi sophia
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello sophia
Stim Morane: Hi sophia
Fael Illyar: Hi Sophia :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello sophia :)
sophia Placebo: lovely henna eliza :)
Fael Illyar: Hi Mick :)
Mickorod Renard: ;)
Stim Morane: Hi Mick
Mickorod Renard: Hi
Eliza Madrigal: Scath's name was one I immediately felt compelled to look up when I first read it... had forgotten but remembered the Gaelic association
sophia Placebo: Hi Mick
Eliza Madrigal: : ) Thanks Sophia :)
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Mick
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Mick :)
Mickorod Renard: Hiya everyone
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Mickorod :)
Mickorod Renard: do we have a topic?
Eliza Madrigal: WB Gaya :)
sophia Placebo: *:::* WELCOME BACK *:::*
sophia Placebo: gaya
Scathach Rhiadra: wb Gaya:)
Gaya Ethaniel: ty :)
Fael Illyar: wb Gaya :)
Stim Morane: :)
Mickorod Renard: ;)
Eliza Madrigal: I don't think we have a particular topic, Mick...
sophia Placebo: can i ask about competitive spirit?
Mickorod Renard: yes
Stim Morane: Do you have some thoughts about that, Eliza?
Stim Morane: Sorry, sophia
sophia Placebo: well , i had a problem or a conflict
Mickorod Renard: competition usualy means someone loosing
sophia Placebo: used to be competitive once , then stopped partly on purpose
Mickorod Renard: but in the right spirit i guess thats ok
Stim Morane: what was the "on purpose" part?
sophia Placebo: now i want to go back , but have the motivation but i cant feel power out of it
Fael Illyar: Hi Qt :)
Mickorod Renard: Hi Qt
Qt Core: hi all
Eliza Madrigal: or at least pretending toHi Qt
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Qt
sophia Placebo: mick ,by competitin i stricktly means self challenge , like trying to slove puzzles cuas you just feel to
sophia Placebo: hi Qt
Mickorod Renard: I love doing that
Mickorod Renard: self challenge
Fael Illyar has a hard time linking that with "competitive"
Fael Illyar: Hi arabella :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Ara
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Ara
arabella Ella: hiya
Mickorod Renard: I even like temptation,,as that is a challenge too
sophia Placebo: ah , i kindda decided to copmete , at that time i coudlnt find a reason to be competitive , actually found competition very unpleasat thing to do
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello arabella :)
sophia Placebo: hi ara
Mickorod Renard: Hi Ara
Qt Core: Hi Ara
Mickorod Renard: temptation is a great form of self challenge
Eliza Madrigal: I think I relate a little... having once been quite ambitious and then that losing flavor...
Eliza Madrigal: ?
Stim Morane: hi Ara
sophia Placebo: well feal they are linked in my brain cause self challenge was my main power and motevation that drove me to be competitive
Mickorod Renard: fighting temptation is a non harming chllenge
sophia Placebo: yes eliza
Fael Illyar: Ah, but you dislike having to compare how you perform with how others perform?
sophia Placebo: i agree mick re temptaion , needs a graet amount of self challenge
sophia Placebo: kindda fael yes
Eliza Madrigal: It seems to be about finding a new balance...
Fael Illyar: which do you think weighs more? the motivation to do it or the motivation to not do it?
arabella Ella: do you mean motivation or intention Fael?
sophia Placebo: which is harder ? to do in my case
Fael Illyar: because, it sounds to me you have both motivation to do it but also motivation to not do it.
sophia Placebo: yes fael thats why i want hat spirit again , it makes the to do side wins usually
Fael Illyar: the other approach is to find out why you don't want to do it and see if you can reduce that.
Mickorod Renard: when given a challenge its like a red flag to a bull for me
sophia Placebo: nods
Fael Illyar: you might want to try both :)
Eliza Madrigal: You get onto the court, in a sense, and don't want to stop to think about their perspective ...you just want to go back to plowing through them...but maybe it isn't as natural to do so?
Fael Illyar: would you have any idea why you don't want to compete?
Mickorod Renard: would this be like tennis?
Eliza Madrigal: I was using a tennis picture Mick... but could be a professional context
sophia Placebo: no fael i dont
arabella Ella: does upbringing have a lot to do with temptation i wonder?
arabella Ella: we all feel guilt pangs at times ... but the weird thing is
arabella Ella: not all of us feel guilty for the same things ... it does not seem to be universal ... at least not generally
Mickorod Renard: I added temptation,,but it was competitive spirit we were addressing Ara
Mickorod Renard: sorry
arabella Ella: oh i see
arabella Ella: apologies if i was out of place
Fael Illyar: ara: each of us has our own things we feel guilty for. That depends on what things we were taught to feel guilty for.
Mickorod Renard: my fault
sophia Placebo: not at all ara , another side of the cube me thinks
Eliza Madrigal nods
Mickorod Renard: or tennis court
Mickorod Renard: I used to get like stage fright
Eliza Madrigal: The game should be fun... should be okay to win because it isn't going to happen every time anyway... hehe
Mickorod Renard: just before a game of tennis
Mickorod Renard: I think what I stuggled with was self image
Mickorod Renard: but I have set myself free from that
Mickorod Renard: now I just enjoy the game/challenge
Fael Illyar: yes, if you feel bad for losing a game, you won't be so willing to play at all.
Gaya Ethaniel: Can you say more how you free yourself from it Mickorod?
Mickorod Renard: well,,it may have been by accident
Mickorod Renard: I accepted that I was no longer a young guy
Mickorod Renard: and now,,I see that i only have to compete with myself
Mickorod Renard: and usually well,,which is a bonus
Gaya Ethaniel smiles. Thanks for sharing.
Fael Illyar: so... that means you accepted that you can't win every game? Or even most necessarily?
Eliza Madrigal: seeing that relieved pressure ... nice. :)
Mickorod Renard: yes,,now I see little shame in loosing
Mickorod Renard: just a need to do my best
sophia Placebo: hmm yes
Eliza Madrigal: Maybe sophia you feel like that at times... putting pressure on yourself to measure up to a time 'before'?
Mickorod Renard: thats all anyone should expect
Fael Illyar: yes, including yourself :)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
sophia Placebo: hmm , eliza , sort of
Mickorod Renard: what I say is,,,what u see is what u get,,no pretenses
Mickorod Renard: I have stripped away the veil
Eliza Madrigal: :)
sophia Placebo: but tennis is a game , some other fields in life wont work with that mick ?
Fael Illyar: life is simply a game with higher stakes.
Mickorod Renard: well,,like in gambling,,which is not a past time of mine,,u shouldnt gamble with what u cant afford to loose
sophia Placebo: fael i dont cry when i lose a game , i dont laugh when i lose myself
Fael Illyar: the question is, what is it that you're really risking to lose?
Gaya Ethaniel: Personally I find being positively determined is a good thing yet easy to stray into putting pressure on myself.
sophia Placebo: agree gaya
Fael Illyar: what does it mean to put pressure on yourself, Gaya? Can you explain more?
Gaya Ethaniel: As Mick said [hope I understood correctly], try to meet a certain standard one has in mind.
sophia Placebo: agree mick re no gambling with risk or unaffordibility
sophia Placebo: of*
Gaya Ethaniel: Rather than, let's say, "I'm going to do my best and be content with results today."
Mickorod Renard: this is where the temptation to set a too high risk comes in
Fael Illyar: for me, it's not so much the standard I set. The pressure is what I plan to do if I don't meet them. What will I think of myself?
sophia Placebo: if you put a high standards, you feel desperate, if you put a low standard you dont feel the value of what you do
Eliza Madrigal: It used to feel that the pressure accomplished something... that without it 'success' wouldn't be possible...
Gaya Ethaniel: Sure sophia, having a goal is important to me. What I meant is goals perhaps too detailed ... am I making sense?
sophia Placebo: how is temtation comes here mick?
Mickorod Renard: when u seek high reward,,instead of smaller managable reward
Eliza Madrigal: and not having that intense feeling of pressure to Compete in the same way one used to doesn't necessarily mean you aren't being effective in what you do.
Mickorod Renard: usually there is always a form of reward,,even if its just feeling good
sophia Placebo: gaya , both goals and standards , like if you plan to do a status , it maybe a big gaol or small goal depends on your prevouse experiance , but your standards maybe a status that suit a museum or a stutus that i may sell for 10 dollars
Gaya Ethaniel thinks ... knows she didn't quite articulate well ... maybe next time >.<
sophia Placebo: >.< sorry if i miss understood
sophia Placebo: [13:53] Eliza Madrigal: It used to feel that the pressure accomplished something... that without it 'success' wouldn't be possible... <<< thats how i feel now
Gaya Ethaniel: Not at all, just take a loooong time for me to think sometime. I will continue pondering - it is a topic close to my heart as well :)
sophia Placebo: :)
Fael Illyar: The pressure (at least how I undestand it) is a threat of self punishment unless you get something done.
Mickorod Renard: I used to try the impossible,,sometimes with success,,but now I have lowered my sights as I dont want the stress
sophia Placebo: self worth in my case eliza
Eliza Madrigal nods
sophia Placebo: same here mick
Eliza Madrigal: I think I understand ... it is not 'true' that the pressure is necessary, but we do become dependent on it
Eliza Madrigal: the adrenaline...
Mickorod Renard: sometimes it was purely for self inflation of ego
Eliza Madrigal: and so we give that up... and maybe there is a rebalacing time :)
Mickorod Renard: I think u have a point Eliza
Mickorod Renard: I find my adrenaline elswhere now
Gaya Ethaniel: Am I understanding right sophia? You've been using pressure to get motivated/get things done?
Mickorod Renard: instead I think its better to feel the potential joy of accomplishment as the driving factor
Mickorod Renard: my opinion
Eliza Madrigal: To what Ara said before..sometimes it is about conditioning
arabella Ella nods
Stim Morane: I must go … thanks for the very interesting comments, everyone!
Gaya Ethaniel: Bye Stim :)
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Stim :)
arabella Ella: even our competitive spirit i guess ... strong weak or whatever it may be
arabella Ella: bye stim
Scathach Rhiadra: bye Stim
Mickorod Renard: bye stim
Stim Morane: Bye
Mickorod Renard: be well
sophia Placebo: bye stim
Qt Core: bye Stim
Fael Illyar: bye stim :)
sophia Placebo: no gaya , i was having pleasure challenging myself
Fael Illyar: so, not succeeding only had you try again?
Gaya Ethaniel: ah ok ...
sophia Placebo: for that i didnt care much about the pressure - unaware of it-
Scathach Rhiadra: I must go too, good night all, Namasté
Eliza Madrigal: Nite Scath
Gaya Ethaniel: Bye Scath :)
Fael Illyar: Good night Scath :)
sophia Placebo: bye scath
Mickorod Renard: nameste scath
Qt Core: bye Scath
arabella Ella: ciao Scath
Mickorod Renard: I have to go too,,nite all
Eliza Madrigal: Nite Mick
Gaya Ethaniel: Bedtime here too ... good night all :)
Fael Illyar: See you later Mick :)
sophia Placebo: bye mick
Eliza Madrigal: :) And Gaya
sophia Placebo: me too have to go
arabella Ella: i must go now too nite all
Eliza Madrigal: Bye everyone :)
Fael Illyar: See you later ara, sophia :)
sophia Placebo: fael im re trying now :)
Fael Illyar smiles.
Eliza Madrigal: :) Thanks sophia for your questions....
sophia Placebo: :)
sophia Placebo: bye
Eliza Madrigal: Bye :)
Eliza Madrigal: Fael, like your new outfit
Fael Illyar smiles 'Thank you.'
Eliza Madrigal: I spent 30 minutes trying to fix my hair this morning...
Fael Illyar: I've had this for a while but haven't worn it much :)
Eliza Madrigal: had buried myself under the ground...
Fael Illyar: this is a Korean school uniform.
Fael Illyar: underground?
Eliza Madrigal: and lifted the hair wrong. hehehe
Eliza Madrigal: Ohh. very nice :)
Eliza Madrigal: yes... playing building....
Eliza Madrigal: and accidentally buried myself. hehe
Fael Illyar: Ah, yes, it takes some time to learn :)
Eliza Madrigal: Some of us more than others! hah.. but it is fun
Fael Illyar: Yes, with the right attitude :)
Eliza Madrigal nods
Eliza Madrigal: During times of transition, when you feel like you 'must' make decisions and cann't wait to 'know' the right things to do, I think it is very easy to panic a bit.
Fael Illyar: Yes, it's very easy to believe you'll do the wrong choices and then panic.
Eliza Madrigal: yes!
Qt Core: especially about hair ;-) jk
Fael Illyar: although, it only becomes panic if you don't know you believed that :)
Eliza Madrigal: hahahah!!
Eliza Madrigal: yes Qt... oh my goodness
Fael Illyar: hair?
Eliza Madrigal: yes.. panic that I couldn't fit my hair on right... wouldn't have left the house!
Eliza Madrigal: :)))
Fael Illyar: Ah :)
Eliza Madrigal: But your point is well taken Fael
Eliza Madrigal: if you don't see through the panic to what is going on beneath...
Eliza Madrigal: then can get caught in a loop
Fael Illyar: only fears you don't know of makes for panic.
Eliza Madrigal: (speaking only for myself btw)
Eliza Madrigal nods
Fael Illyar: I've been tackling my own fears recently.
Eliza Madrigal: seeing them for what they are?
Fael Illyar: well, finding them, learning to see them that they exist at all was quite important.
Eliza Madrigal nods
Fael Illyar: I learned that the only physical sensation my fears make for me is a slight pressure inside my neck close to the back of my head.
Eliza Madrigal: when you see them... stare them in the face... sometimes they lose their scariness
Eliza Madrigal: Oh Wow Fael
Eliza Madrigal: that is very specific a thing to notice
Fael Illyar: when I realized that it means I've got fears, I started being able to see them.
Fael Illyar: they're no small fears and yet, even with them there quite strongly, I hadn't noticed much difference before.
Eliza Madrigal: Hmm... sounds like maybe you are ready to let them go
Eliza Madrigal: when there is more space there... around the fear...
Fael Illyar: I've been doing what I can to accept them and let them go.
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Fael Illyar: this answers why I haven't felt fears in my stomach like I know some people do... they're all tightly packed in my head.
Eliza Madrigal: Do you have headaches genearlly?
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Yolife
Yolife Viper: .hi everybody
Fael Illyar: Hello Yolife :)
Fael Illyar: not too often, no.
Qt Core: hi Yolife
Fael Illyar: but when I collected a good collection of fears a couple of days ago, I did get the beginning of one.
Yolife Viper: I came today... sophiya... and some other people was there...!!!
Yolife Viper: I have that...
Eliza Madrigal: Oh! :)
Yolife Viper: thank you
Eliza Madrigal: Welcome back :)
Yolife Viper: I dont know more about this ..!!! but yet...
Eliza Madrigal: Fael, you wrote them out?
Fael Illyar: nope, no writing done.
Fael Illyar: some of them I would've had difficulties putting to words even :)
Eliza Madrigal: That helps me, generally... sometimes I write it out and it seems so much less scary ...
Eliza Madrigal: and yes I understand that too.
Eliza Madrigal: You begin to grasp the edges maybe :)
Fael Illyar: perhaps :)
Eliza Madrigal: :) Helpful to have a place to come which reminds you to be introspective a bit...
Eliza Madrigal: to breathe...
Eliza Madrigal: to pause. :)
Yolife Viper: What are you talking about?
Eliza Madrigal: Yolife, a few things... but mainly seeing and dropping fear
Fael Illyar: I'm pretty goo at remembering to be introspective :)
Yolife Viper: ok...
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Did I tell you how much I have thought about something you said a week or so ago, Fael?
Fael Illyar: Ah, no, what is that?
Eliza Madrigal: I had quoted Mother Teresa saying that "we can not all do great things, but we can all do small things with great love..."
Eliza Madrigal: ... You said "We all do great things, we just don't see them as great things."
Fael Illyar smiles.
Eliza Madrigal: Beautiful :)
Yolife Viper: you talk about philosophy here
Fael Illyar: Well, sort of :)
Eliza Madrigal: Yo, sometimes :)
Fael Illyar: but it's in a practically oriented way
Yolife Viper: ok... so somebody in the group starts the subject
Yolife Viper: and you discuss on it for 15 min...
Yolife Viper: which is going to get recorded...
Fael Illyar: well, no fixed time, really :)
Eliza Madrigal: We talk about all kinds of things, but the groundwork are the pauses (I think)... determining to pause every 15 minutes
Fael Illyar: but meetings usually last for at least an hour
Eliza Madrigal: yes, and we do record these talks.
Yolife Viper: so tell me wat you are talking about?
Fael Illyar: they're all up at http://playasbeing.wik.is/
Eliza Madrigal: The aspect of pausing seems to create a very different environment than some which are philosophy forums...
Eliza Madrigal: the intentions aren't so much to outdo/argue, but to find places where all sorts of people from many backgrounds overlap
Fael Illyar: Well, the idea here is to speak of things that are directly, personally relevant to your life and test them out yourself :)
Qt Core: i've seen a couple other places where the only point seemed to be "let other see how cool i am"
Fael Illyar: Hi Kenji :)
Eliza Madrigal nods to Fael's better way of explaining :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Kenji
kenji Pookes: Hello all.
Yolife Viper: hi... kenji
Eliza Madrigal: I went to a philosophy talk last night.... seemed everyone just throwing thoughts into a bowl... no real cohesiveness... if that makes sense
Yolife Viper: Ok...
Eliza Madrigal: I'm sure not all meetings are like that, but it made me reappreciate PaB :)
Yolife Viper: ok..
Eliza Madrigal: :) What are your interests Yo?
Yolife Viper: I am basically 19 year boy from india..
Yolife Viper: I like everything about computers...!!!
Yolife Viper: I am kinda techo type...
Eliza Madrigal: Nice! :)
Yolife Viper: I am doing graduation in Information Technlogy
Yolife Viper: and Newbie in SL ...(I have never met any indian here yet)
Eliza Madrigal: Not that you know of maybe
Eliza Madrigal: Hi hosea
hosea51188 Enimo: Hey how are you?
kenji Pookes: Hi ho
Yolife Viper: hi hosea...
Fael Illyar: I've only met a few other Finnish people in a year and a half I'v been here.
Eliza Madrigal: hosea I gave you a note about Play as Being
Fael Illyar: Hello hosea :)
Eliza Madrigal: :) Feel free to have a seat
hosea51188 Enimo: I saw
kenji Pookes: Fael, you are Finish?
hosea51188 Enimo: where is everyone from?
Fael Illyar: Finnish, yes
kenji Pookes: Two n's in that.
Eliza Madrigal: We record our conversations , is that okay with you, Hosea?
kenji Pookes: So why the Japanese name?
hosea51188 Enimo: sure thing
Fael Illyar: it's a group tag :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Fael Illyar: I can speak Japanese too.
kenji Pookes: Oh, I see. Interested in Japan. I speak Japanese also.
hosea51188 Enimo: I speak Spanish as well
Fael Illyar smiles 'Yes.'
hosea51188 Enimo: and talk in the tongue of music ;)
Yolife Viper: ok... who is playing music here,..?
kenji Pookes: What aspect of Japan do you find interesting?
hosea51188 Enimo: thats a language too
Fael Illyar: Not sure if I can name any specific aspect :)
Eliza Madrigal: Muy Bien hosea : ) Hablo muy poquito y muy mal :)
Yolife Viper: Japan is Technically too advance as I know...
kenji Pookes: Have you been to Japan?
Yolife Viper: no...
Fael Illyar: Started out watching subtitled anime, felt interested in learning the language and started reading with a dictionary... well, here I am :)
Fael Illyar: No, I haven't been to Japan.
Eliza Madrigal has a daughter who has taught herself a lot of Japanese watching anime!
kenji Pookes: You ight find it quite different if you visited.
Yolife Viper: Dont play music
Fael Illyar: (well ok, I took a basics course in Japanese from my University in between)
kenji Pookes: I've spent about four years in Japan.
Eliza Madrigal: So neat :)
Fael Illyar: I've been hoping to visit one day but haven't got up to doing that just yet :)
Eliza Madrigal has to go....
kenji Pookes: Tokyo is interesting--a lot going on there. The countryside is where I've spent most of my time.
kenji Pookes: Bye
Fael Illyar: Ah, see you later Eliza. Nice talking to you :)
Yolife Viper: bye eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Bye for now :) Nice to see you Fael, and everyone :)
kenji Pookes: If you get to Japan, I would recommend getting out into the countryside.
Fael Illyar: If I go to Japan, I'll likely have someone to guide me around :)
Yolife Viper: Where are you from ?
Fael Illyar: Finland
kenji Pookes: USA
Yolife Viper: ok.
kenji Pookes: WHy will you have a guide, Fael
Fael Illyar: I have a few contacts there :)
kenji Pookes: THat's good. More interesting that way.
Fael Illyar: and if I do go, the most likel reason is to go see one of them :)
Yolife Viper: searching for a thing , you dont know is intresting... always
Fael Illyar smiles 'The world is full of interesting things.'
kenji Pookes: Yes it is. Has a lot of boring thing as well.
Yolife Viper: Which?
Fael Illyar: That depends entirely on your point of view :)
kenji Pookes: So does interesting.
kenji Pookes: which? I find soccer boring.
Yolife Viper: I find cricket interesting...!!!
Fael Illyar: the last time I watched soccer, I found it boring too :)
kenji Pookes: Cricket is ok, but I don't quite understand it. I like baseball a lot more--in fact I love baseball.
kenji Pookes: I've watched cricket in Australia. Fun.
Yolife Viper: you have roamed in the world allot...
Fael Illyar: I tend to prefer doing things myself rather than watching others doing things :)
kenji Pookes: Yes, I have. But haven't been to either Finland or India. Have been to the other Scandinavian countries, though.
Yolife Viper: I have never been out of my state,,,
Yolife Viper: even
kenji Pookes: I like doing things as well.
Yolife Viper: what u like...!!!
Fael Illyar: I visited USA last year... October I think
kenji Pookes: What part of the USA?
Fael Illyar: Princeton
kenji Pookes: Lovely place, particualrly in October. Were you thinking of going to schoolthere?
Fael Illyar: No, I visited IAS. Stayed as a guest in one of the apartments on the campus.
Fael Illyar: 2 weeks
kenji Pookes: I have several friends who graduated from Princeton. Why did you visit IAS?
Yolife Viper: what is IAS?
Fael Illyar: Piet Hut invited me :)
kenji Pookes: Institute for Advanced Studies.
kenji Pookes: I see. Did you find it interesting?
Fael Illyar: Yes, very :)
kenji Pookes: Are you an academic?
Fael Illyar: I've been studying math in university but talking with him here at PaB was the main reason he wanted to meet me I think :)
kenji Pookes: He must be impressed with you.
Yolife Viper: MAths is india,,,!!!
Fael Illyar: You'd best ask him if you wish to know of his reasons :)
kenji Pookes: So did you get outside of Princeton?
Fael Illyar: (Pema Pera in SL)
Fael Illyar: Yes, I spent a day in New York too :)
kenji Pookes: NYC is fun. Did you get a chance to meet his wife?
Fael Illyar: One person I met here guided me around. Unfortunately this person has not been around in SL for a few months now.
Fael Illyar: Ah, no, his wife wasn't at Princeton at that time.
kenji Pookes: Too bad. She's cool.
Fael Illyar: Ah, you know Piet then :)
kenji Pookes: No, I don't know him, but I have spoken with his wife. She and I both are scholars who do work on Japan.
Fael Illyar: Oh :)
Fael Illyar: what kind of work do you do?
kenji Pookes: I am an anthropologist and do research on religion and also on demography (aging).
Fael Illyar: aging?
Fael Illyar: How did you find PaB?
kenji Pookes: Yes, social issues related to aging in Japan.
kenji Pookes: I've published papers on things like elder suicide, migration and elder care, and many other things.
kenji Pookes: Quite a bit of my work is related to senile dementia in Japan.
Fael Illyar: How about the religion aspect?
kenji Pookes: I've done work on various rituals and also on health, well-being and religious practice.
Fael Illyar: health effects of religion?
kenji Pookes: No, how people conceptualize the use of ritual for health.
Fael Illyar: somehow that sentence doesn't make sense to me :)
kenji Pookes: Most of Japanese religious practice is related to the maintenance of well-being. For example, people go to a Shinto shrine to ask for help in passing college entrance exams. They also carry around talismans to protect them from calamity. however, most Japanese do not describe themselves as religious.
kenji Pookes: I've written a book that discusses this in relation to the elderly.
Fael Illyar: Ah, that makes more sense :)
Fael Illyar: So, people take the more practical seeming parts, that is, rituals and leave out the rest of it?
kenji Pookes: Yes, that's basically it. They have little interest in dogma, powers of deities, etc. What matters is that you do the rituals. This is particualrly important in relation to ancestor veneration.
kenji Pookes: I tend to get troubled when people talk about Buddhism in Japan as thought the philosophical form that they read about by European and AMerican scholars reflects what Japanese do. Most Japanese are not interested in that aspect of Buddhism.
Fael Illyar: which parts of Buddhism are they interested in?
kenji Pookes: Buddhism for most Japanese is simply a set of rituals that are used to keep the ancestors alive in memory. It is a way to memorialize one's ancestors and one's family (and even one's nation).
Fael Illyar: I've personally, only taken meditation from Buddhism :)
kenji Pookes: Few Japanese meditate. There are people, of course, who do so, but average people don't generaly spend much time doing that sort of thing.
Fael Illyar: other than that, only what makes sense at any given moment.
kenji Pookes: Not sure I get your meaning.
Fael Illyar: as in, not really interested in what Buddhists texts say, unless they have something that might be applicable to my situation :)
kenji Pookes: Sounds pretty Japanese, actually.
Fael Illyar smiles.
kenji Pookes: Of course, Japanese do not just practice Buddhism, they also practice Shinto.
Fael Illyar: Yes :)
kenji Pookes: That tends to confuse my students, who normally want to believe that you can only observe on "faith" at a time.
Fael Illyar smiles 'Yes, a common misconception that you have to choose between premade packages.'
kenji Pookes: Indeed.
Fael Illyar: I like to make my own package :)
kenji Pookes: Same with me.
Fael Illyar: and not just with religion :)
kenji Pookes: Are you currently at university?
Fael Illyar: yes, although, I lost motivation to continue my studies so. I'm probably dropping out. At the very least I'll have a year off.
kenji Pookes: What are you studying?
Fael Illyar: Math so far :)
kenji Pookes: Well, that explains it. Perhaps you should change your major?
Evan Mahogany: hello
kenji Pookes: Hi
Fael Illyar: That might help but ... I feel I'll need to learn/grow up a bit before I can manage university style courses without fooling myself into it :)
Evan Mahogany: anyone wanna see a trick?
kenji Pookes: Sometimes time off is a good thing.
kenji Pookes: Can you pull a rabbit out of a hat?
Evan Mahogany: better
kenji Pookes: Explain it first.
Fael Illyar: my previous try at fooling myself ran out and I'm not too enthusiastic about starting another one of those.
Evan Mahogany: i can make you not be able to see me
kenji Pookes: Oh, well, that's easy. If I just go away, I won't be able to see you.
Evan Mahogany: like this
kenji Pookes: Fael, that is a concern, but colelge should be a chance to explore your ideas and your self.
Fael Illyar: well, more like, I'm no longer apt to do so without knowing it and it's quite not fooling myself if I do it while knowing it so I need to figure out something real :)
kenji Pookes: True.
Fael Illyar: The most significant issue is that I don't feel university gives me anything I need.
Fael Illyar: well, aside from the paper :)
kenji Pookes: That is a problem with many universities, including the one where I teach.
Fael Illyar: which alone is not quite enough to motivate me.
kenji Pookes: I think the problem is that many faculty believe that their job is to convey knowledge. I don't. The knowledge is out there to get. The purpose of college is to convey ideas about how to explore that knowledge. And to learn together.
Fael Illyar: Yes, great attitude :)
kenji Pookes: Some of my students get frustrated because I don't tend to have very organized courses. But my purpose is to explore ideas and to think as a group.
Fael Illyar: Yes, many students expect to not have to think :)
kenji Pookes: Alas, that is very true. I don't care for those students very much.
Fael Illyar: Myself, I tend to want to think. Just being fed knowledge doesn't keep me interested.
kenji Pookes: Hello Mr. Spock.
Fael Illyar: Hi Qt :)
Qt Core: hi
Qt Core: >:-)
kenji Pookes: Well, I've got to run. dinner time. I've enjoyed our conversation, Fael.
Fael Illyar: Ok, see you later Kenji :) I've enjoyed it too.
Fael Illyar waves.
Fael Illyar: I'd better head to bed :)
Fael Illyar: 1:21AM :)
kenji Pookes: bye
Fael Illyar: So, Bye QT :)
Qt Core: i have yet an hour to wander around then, Fael ;-)
Qt Core: bye