2010.02.08 01:00 - Talking Stick

The Guardian for this meeting was Tarmel Udimo. The comments are by Tarmel Udimo. Calvino and I got into a discussion, its becoming a regular thing and its been great! After the greetings we launched into a topic about Shamans and energies.

 Tarmel Udimo: O hey Calvino,
Calvino Rabeni: Good evening Tarmel :)
Tarmel Udimo: this is late for you?
Tarmel Udimo: if you are in San Fran
Calvino Rabeni: Yes this time it is
Tarmel Udimo: are you a bit of a night owl?
Calvino Rabeni: Actually yes
Tarmel Udimo: ahhh
Tarmel Udimo: so 1:13 is not late for you then:)
Calvino Rabeni: Not very, no :)
Tarmel Udimo: ok
Tarmel Udimo: got a topic:)

--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: :)
Calvino Rabeni: The object in my hand is a "talking stick" from the native american tradition
Tarmel Udimo: thought so, a pipe then
Calvino Rabeni: Hmm, lots of lag
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Tarmel Udimo: is this an interest of yours?
Calvino Rabeni: I zoomed in on the earrings - very nice - I usually don't look closely at things in SL but am often pleasantly surprised at details
Calvino Rabeni: The talking stick an interest? Yes, to a certain degree these things have penetrated the culture
Tarmel Udimo: yes there are some good creative artists in SL
Calvino Rabeni: And they are used in some groups I attend
Calvino Rabeni: I got rather fond ofthem after a while
Tarmel Udimo: ahh shamanic?
Calvino Rabeni: Yes
Tarmel Udimo: nods been thinking about going to a sweat lodge this winter
Tarmel Udimo: I've done a few and really enjoyed them
Tarmel Udimo: also went to a healing ceremony when I visited my frined in Arizona a couple of years ago
Tarmel Udimo: that was full on
Calvino Rabeni: I felt most affected by the shaman, not the actual sweat lodge itself.
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Tarmel Udimo: he was genuine then:)
Calvino Rabeni: I would recommend it mainly with a person who was genuine, yes
Calvino Rabeni: Secondly perhaps with a group I'm already bonded with
Tarmel Udimo: sure
Tarmel Udimo: well some people are not true shamans
Calvino Rabeni: I don't think I'd go if it didn't have either of those conditions.

--BELL--

Tarmel Udimo: yes well one would hope that these conditions are always right, but sometimes its only after an expereince that one can tell
Tarmel Udimo: but in the US there is mor access of course:)
Tarmel Udimo: more choice
Tarmel Udimo: here its very limited
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, it is more available.
Calvino Rabeni: Lucky
Tarmel Udimo: I also believe that the approach needs to sometime be different for women than for men
Tarmel Udimo: read a great book called 13 moons (I think)
Tarmel Udimo: the author suggested that men need to have their egos broken down - hence the tests and harship
Tarmel Udimo: hardships
Calvino Rabeni: Who wrote the book?
Tarmel Udimo: where as a woman needs to be nutured kept warm and protected for her to be able to 'dream' and contact the spirits:)
Tarmel Udimo: looking
Calvino Rabeni: I basically agree, the women and men best have their separate lodges
Calvino Rabeni: On account of energetic differences
Calvino Rabeni: I've only done all-male lodges though
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Calvino Rabeni: And that was presented as tradition, and it seemed right
Tarmel Udimo: can't find the book online and unfortuantely like a lot of my books is packed in a box in the basement:(
Tarmel Udimo: yes
Tarmel Udimo: I never used to think there needed to be differences
Tarmel Udimo: but I have experienced when the lodge was led by a male and then a female and it did feel different
Tarmel Udimo: do you engage in other practices in this tradition?
Calvino Rabeni: I can identify a fair amount of influence, both formal and otherwise, yes
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Tarmel Udimo: is this your b/ground?
Calvino Rabeni: It is like "tradition" in that it slowly grows and deepens, rather than being a thing you suddenly adopt
Tarmel Udimo: true
Calvino Rabeni: I am not of first nation blood, if that is your question
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Tarmel Udimo: hhahahaha
Calvino Rabeni: Various groups I'm in use talking stick and some of its meanings
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Calvino Rabeni: I've grown to like it
Calvino Rabeni: Have done some trance journeying

--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: These late PaB sessions can be energizing in a kind of deep way
Tarmel Udimo: must be the company:)
Calvino Rabeni: I like the talking stick because it gives attention, presence, and some dignity to the act of speech in a group
Tarmel Udimo: yes
Tarmel Udimo: this is important
Calvino Rabeni: Creating a container as they say, in which deeper meanings can come out
Tarmel Udimo: yes well that is PaB, the brillance of PaB
Tarmel Udimo: this is what it is meant to serve
Calvino Rabeni: The PaB has the disadvantage of the chat log record which opens the container
Calvino Rabeni: But certain things can emerge here too
Tarmel Udimo: yes well i would rather use voice especially as I am a terrible speller:)
Tarmel Udimo: but also since we all spend so much time typing in RL, it would be nice to get away from it in SL:)
Calvino Rabeni: Traditional wisdom circle with the talking stick can be deeper, in my estimation, especially when shadowy energies are involved.
Calvino Rabeni: I agree about the typing :)
Tarmel Udimo: but I understand the reasons for using chat, which some people feel means you have to be more careful about what you say, but I am not sure:)
Tarmel Udimo: humm yes those shadowy energies:)
Calvino Rabeni: These are the energies of the spirit underworld
Tarmel Udimo: true
Calvino Rabeni: somehow they don't like the SL cartoon world as a portal
Tarmel Udimo: they don't?
Calvino Rabeni: Not in my experience. How about yours?
Tarmel Udimo: they seem to use it quite a bit in certain Avatars
Tarmel Udimo: unless you are not meaning negative but subconsious
Calvino Rabeni: What do you notice with that?
Calvino Rabeni: I'm still thinking :)
Tarmel Udimo: you mean AV's or subconsious?
Calvino Rabeni: Your meaning about negative vs subconscious as it appears in SL?
Tarmel Udimo: ahhh well
Tarmel Udimo: there have been some AV's that have used PaB as a platofrm to push their own agandas,
Tarmel Udimo: seen it as a forum to convert others to a way of thinking
Tarmel Udimo: where as opening up to a deeper reality ie connecting to a part of ourselves
Tarmel Udimo: that is less personal and more 'being'
Tarmel Udimo: Hi Pen, sorry I didn't see you there:)
Tarmel Udimo: Please feel free to join us if you wish
Pen Dexler: no problem. just visiting
Tarmel Udimo: can i give you a note card about PaB
Pen Dexler: thank you but no

--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: I think you were saying ...
Calvino Rabeni: Well the question in my mind is the kind of "energies" that PaB seems to support here
Calvino Rabeni: And I don't want to "define" it as being good or not good
Tarmel Udimo: this is a big question perhaps we can take up the topic next week
Calvino Rabeni: but I do have experiences in that direction
Calvino Rabeni: Yes sounds good
Tarmel Udimo: okay remind me:)
Calvino Rabeni: Sure, have a good week Tarmel :)
Calvino Rabeni: Godspeed :)
Tarmel Udimo: bfn