2010.02.24 07:00 - To Be Seen

The guardian for this long, winding, and often wonderful session was Eliza, who was joined by Ya, Sharon, and Fael. :)

(Hint: There is a particularly lovely experience conveyed by Sharon toward the end)

Yakuzza Lethecus: hey, eliza
Yakuzza Lethecus: good morning
Eliza Madrigal: Hi yakuzza :) Good evening :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: afternoon :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: 4 pm
Yakuzza Lethecus: brits are at 3 pm
Eliza Madrigal: Yes, Good afternoon to you then! (though I call 4PM early evening)
Yakuzza Lethecus: had a good start in the day ?
Eliza Madrigal: How are you today? Up on time workshop reading?
Eliza Madrigal: Yes, very! Thanks for asking... woke rather inspired today :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: oh, yes, you mind me i haven´t done that until now
Yakuzza Lethecus: lol, yesterday i wanted to visit the dream workshop and slept away listening to a lecture series about dreams :D
Eliza Madrigal: heheheh
Yakuzza Lethecus: you have itunes installed ?
Eliza Madrigal: so funny... yes I do
Yakuzza Lethecus: store/itunesU/
Yakuzza Lethecus: from berkley
Yakuzza Lethecus: psychologie and there somewhere psychologie of dreams or something :)
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks... just made note
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sharon! :) Morning!
SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Yak Hi Eliza :))
SophiaSharon Larnia: morning!!
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey ssl
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s facinating how many lectures are availible over itunesU now for free
Eliza Madrigal: Ya just told me he slept through dream workshop because of listening to a dream lecture on iTunes... heh
SophiaSharon Larnia: ooh <<laughs>>
Eliza Madrigal: It really is marvelous... the abundance of resources available
SophiaSharon Larnia: practical experiment eh?
Eliza Madrigal grins
Yakuzza Lethecus: hehe, not really but always a bad idea to close my eyes and lying in my bed while listening to something
Yakuzza Lethecus: at least i had 9 hrs sleep in that way
SophiaSharon Larnia: nice
Yakuzza Lethecus: and part of the lecture was that we neeed at least 6-8hrs to get some boost on our memory
Yakuzza Lethecus: because that would only happen in the second stage after REM sleep
Yakuzza Lethecus: :P
SophiaSharon Larnia: maybe the lecture information permeates your subconscious falling asleep while listening like that
Eliza Madrigal: yes, its about consolidation (memory)
Eliza Madrigal nods... I think so Sharon. I often fall asleep with something and will wake just as the teacher is talking about something I was working with that day
Eliza Madrigal: there comes this continuity

I share dreaming about the idea of deep, essential, rest...  

Eliza Madrigal: I dreamt a funny idea last night... about dreaming... funny this comes up. Want to hear?
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes!
Yakuzza Lethecus: fire :)
Eliza Madrigal: :) Okay... since you pull my leg... hehe
SophiaSharon Larnia: (whoops on the whisper)
Eliza Madrigal: The idea is that deep sleep is necessary for optimal function, as Ya mentioned.... we go crazy without it... scatter, etc....
Eliza Madrigal: AND....
SophiaSharon Larnia: (knows a bit about this scatter from lack of REM sleep ahaha)
Eliza Madrigal: In daily life perhaps it is the same if we don't have the deeply, deeply rest quality....
Eliza Madrigal: there is a deep rest some never have....
Eliza Madrigal: that is ordinary, actually...
Eliza Madrigal: required :) Like REM
Yakuzza Lethecus: they were mentioning that rats die in experiments 3 days after sleep deprivation starts
Eliza Madrigal: yes, so we need 'that' while awake too... not sure why this hit me as such a surprise...
Yakuzza Lethecus: and also that ppl who don´t sleep that much die younger
Eliza Madrigal: but I thought that's what some relationships starve from
Eliza Madrigal nods to Ya.. true
SophiaSharon Larnia: relationships?
Eliza Madrigal: yes... a deep restfulness that's missing...
Eliza Madrigal: I know.. a serious idea so early this morning
Yakuzza Lethecus: *thinkgs about lethal side effects of attending the 1 pm session*
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: heheheh Ya
--BELL--

Fael Illyar: meep meep! :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Fael!
Eliza Madrigal whispers "Hey Fael" looking cute :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: i will only have 5:15 hrs sleep after the 1 pm to fall asleep and to sleep
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey feal :)
Fael Illyar: Hi Eliza, Sharon, Yaku :)
Eliza Madrigal: pauses can nurture relationships... too... circulate conversations and connection ... like we learn here... 'inspiration' :)
Eliza Madrigal: Ya do you think you have a natural rhythm? something 'normal' for you with regard to sleep?
Yakuzza Lethecus: hmm, before pab i tried to go to bed at 1 pm/10 pm my time
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s a bit too less but not that serious i hope
Eliza Madrigal: and maybe just a season...
Eliza Madrigal: a time for stretching then later integration, then eventually everything back/forth in a more natural way?
Eliza Madrigal: (what I tell myself anyway-hehe)

We pick up on a conversation from last week, about jumping into moments as they arise...

Eliza Madrigal wonders if Fael has talked to more 'strangers'
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Fael Illyar: hmm... could say so :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: so if you have a wonky sleep style to begin with, this stretching and integration has a different meaning
Fael Illyar: not too many but some :)
Fael Illyar: not every day I have energy to override the reluctance :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Eliza Madrigal nods :)
Fael Illyar: but Sharon and Ari saw me doing it a day or two ago :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: haha yes :) I can learn from you
Fael Illyar: Sharon was wondering about a shout one of her neighbors did and I suddenly got a thought "why not just meep at them?" and did just that by shouting "meep meep" :)
Eliza Madrigal: hahaha
Eliza Madrigal: What happened?
SophiaSharon Larnia: they came over and meeped :)
Fael Illyar: 2 of the neighbors (4 in total) came for a visit :)
Eliza Madrigal giggles... that's great
Eliza Madrigal: one never knows :)
Eliza Madrigal: its bound to happen as often as not, so why do we tend to hold back?
Fael Illyar: afraid of our own reaction perhaps...
SophiaSharon Larnia: i held back because they were shouting at me before in some language with a numbers in it i didnt know what they were saying
Eliza Madrigal: hehehe
Fael Illyar: Greek
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
SophiaSharon Larnia: literally
Eliza Madrigal: Ah! rofl
Eliza Madrigal: My son might have been able to help... but he would have stubbornly refused to do so
SophiaSharon Larnia: aww ;p
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Fael Illyar smiles.
Fael Illyar: they spoke English well enough :)

So I begin to wonder how SL plays with ideas of introversion/extroversion...

Eliza Madrigal: Would any of you categorize yourselves as introverted/extroverted?
Fael Illyar: I used to call myself introverted but ... frankly, I don't know anymore :)
Eliza Madrigal: That's how I feel!
Fael Illyar: feels like that categorization doesn't apply well :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: no its situational
Fael Illyar: whichever pick you make, it's wrong :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: im definately introverted but forget myself at work
Eliza Madrigal: yes its strange... because I can also look at someone like Pema who seems to be always visiting, always travelling... and think he must be the definition of extroversion....
Yakuzza Lethecus: real life more introverted
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, context
Eliza Madrigal nods
Fael Illyar: more introverted in RL though.
Fael Illyar: breakthrough happening in SL for the moment. Likely a while before the change trickles to RL too :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: which is why i have thought something knew what it was doing when it placed me in my occupation :)
Eliza Madrigal: :))))
Fael Illyar smiles.
SophiaSharon Larnia: otherwise i may be ordering groceries online lol
--BELL--

Fael Illyar: never done that :)
Fael Illyar: even if I was quite anxious visiting the shop before I found PaB
Fael Illyar: whenever I left the house actually.
Eliza Madrigal: SL as a wormhole
Eliza Madrigal: I have ordered groceries online before :))
Yakuzza Lethecus: i hope so
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Yakuzza Lethecus: i mean the wormhole :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: I find people far more energizing than I used to....
Eliza Madrigal: used to come away from even 'positive' interractions tired, drained
Fael Illyar: comes with acceptance :)
Eliza Madrigal: YES

From hermitting to retreating...

Yakuzza Lethecus: fael: are you considering the stuttgart retreat ?
Eliza Madrigal: of self too... of dropping constant scrutiny
Fael Illyar: Yes, I was considering going there.
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Eliza Madrigal resists asking Sharon to now consider Cali, as I've already bought tickets ... hehe
SophiaSharon Larnia: you did?????
Eliza Madrigal: yes :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: I was just emailing you :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: My sister lives in ocean county (the OC haha) in southern California, which is as far from SF as I guess is Georgia is from about Pennsylvania? At any rate, very far.
Eliza Madrigal: Oh My
SophiaSharon Larnia: I dont think i can make that one
Eliza Madrigal: Oh.. bummer.
SophiaSharon Larnia: waa

An enigma wrapped in a riddle hidden in a cave ...

Eliza Madrigal: Maybe I'll make NS too... some windfall...
Eliza Madrigal: person arrives at my door wanting me to write a series of childrens' books on singing geckos and exploding crabs....
SophiaSharon Larnia: !!! wow!!
Eliza Madrigal: hehehe
SophiaSharon Larnia: but eww
Fael Illyar: what?
Eliza Madrigal hopes her humor translates...
Eliza Madrigal: guess not
Eliza Madrigal: :))))
Fael Illyar: apparently not :))

Melatonin is a 'healing' hormone hindered when one does not sleep well:

"Production of melatonin by the pineal gland is inhibited by light and permitted by darkness. For this reason melatonin has been called "the hormone of darkness" and its onset each evening is called the Dim-Light Melatonin Onset (DLMO)." (from wiki)

There is also a 'bonding' hormone called pitocin. It is, I am told, somewhat responsible for the reasons that 'first loves' are often 'crushes'... sense of intensity in the fall.  

Eliza Madrigal: Do you think that part of the reason pab retreaters are so instantly comfortable is that we DO cultivate that deep rest so necessary for bonding?
Fael Illyar: deep rest?
Eliza Madrigal: yes... as in sleep one requires deep sleep or else they become skittish... scattered....
Eliza Madrigal: can't settle
SophiaSharon Larnia: maybe in part Eliza, I think part of it is sharing ideas with others that are usually kept to oneself, or shared with few
Fael Illyar: the atmosphere here is very trusting.

Yakuzza considers those who may not attend RL retreats...

Yakuzza Lethecus: actually the amount of retreats, 4 times a years, makes me a bit scared of those ppl whom aren´t attending those if they might still feel that they´re a part of it
Eliza Madrigal nods.. yes barriers already relaxed... hm, yes
Fael Illyar: and accepting.
Yakuzza Lethecus: since there isn´t symmetrie between all members anymore
Eliza Madrigal: that is part of growth, too, Ya... becomes harder to know everyone....
Fael Illyar: some might feel that but there's no helping that really.
Eliza Madrigal: but there are ways to keep it in mind and counter-balance
Eliza Madrigal: true, Fael
Fael Illyar: It is everyone own choice to not join the retreat
Fael Illyar: or join it
Eliza Madrigal nods... and if someone feels they can't 'go' to one.. maybe they could help organize one near their home...
Yakuzza Lethecus: hehe, next year miami ?
SophiaSharon Larnia: symmetry? I do see symmetry in the sense you state Eliza, counterbalance... keeping proportianality
SophiaSharon Larnia: the keyssss
Eliza Madrigal: actually, maybe Ya!!
Eliza Madrigal: I'm looking around... hard to find great prices in Miami in January... but asking, etc
SophiaSharon Larnia: if we were all of the same thought, the same point of view, it would be boring
Eliza Madrigal nods to Sharon re symmetry.. yes very
Eliza Madrigal: With or without retreats, I enjoy pab and those in it....
SophiaSharon Larnia prefers to'see' many viewing points\
Eliza Madrigal nods nods
SophiaSharon Larnia: (although it can be too much sometimes)
Eliza Madrigal: well if one tries to keep up entirely... hehe
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes :)

Avatar! :)

SophiaSharon Larnia: i watched avater in the regular theater with a friend yesterday
SophiaSharon Larnia: i couldnt get to phila IMAx
Eliza Madrigal: talked with arch about that one day... another way to become fragmented would be trying to completely 'relate' and 'understand' everyone from their angle rather than sharing space
Eliza Madrigal: Oh!
Eliza Madrigal: How did you find it?
Eliza Madrigal: had you see in 3d before?
--BELL--
SophiaSharon Larnia: well, this isnt the place for a full review, hahahaha
Eliza Madrigal: =P~
Fael Illyar: a short one is enough :D
Eliza Madrigal: :)))
SophiaSharon Larnia: but found the mix of modern things in a supposedly futuristic setting kind of funny
Fael Illyar: postmodern actually but :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: a mix of amazing imagination and the mundane :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: a bit more violent than i thought too
Eliza Madrigal: yes... my feeling toward the end was that someone had moved me to 'transformers'
Eliza Madrigal: That said... I loved the film :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: but took some lines from the film to heart...as in... no one can teach you how to see
Eliza Madrigal: YES
Eliza Madrigal: That line struck immediately...
SophiaSharon Larnia: sighs
Eliza Madrigal: one looks around to see if others are smiling :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: lol
Fael Illyar: yep :=
Fael Illyar: :)
Eliza Madrigal: "I see you"...
Eliza Madrigal:  :) Direct experience, immediacy
SophiaSharon Larnia: i dont think anyone can tell another how to see, but to help you open up to see that something is there to be seen
SophiaSharon Larnia: we need each other
Fael Illyar: meep! :)
Eliza Madrigal: that's a beautiful phrasing Sharon, yes
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
Eliza Madrigal: Meep Indeed!
Eliza Madrigal: Definitely a film that displays at times, what brings us here :)
Fael Illyar: Yes :)
Eliza Madrigal: people seem to be asking me lately, about 'beliefs'
Fael Illyar: beliefs?
Eliza Madrigal: yes... maybe they've had tragedies or are struggling....
Eliza Madrigal: and I find myself very comforted to feel that beliefs aren't necessary to bring comfort...
Eliza Madrigal: and to be able to converse in that way... of suggesting toward direct experience...
Eliza Madrigal: that nothing is hidden, in a sense
SophiaSharon Larnia: wb yakuzza :)
Eliza Madrigal: Welcome back Yakuzza
Yakuzza Lethecus: sry lost the connection to sl somehow
Eliza Madrigal: because beliefs are 'over there' or 'that person's idea/view'... not 'wrong' maybe 'right', but still not the same as experience/connection

Track moves through SL tech talk...

SophiaSharon Larnia: are you on Emerald? Ive found the newest version to be unstable
Yakuzza Lethecus: no LL viewer
SophiaSharon Larnia: kk
Yakuzza Lethecus: couldn´t even log in 3 times
Eliza Madrigal: eek
Fael Illyar: I'm on emerald :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: strange
SophiaSharon Larnia: i freeze and crash much more on full sims
Eliza Madrigal: Ah... I'm not on emerald but lately I'm thrown around a lot.... try to sit one place and end up another...
Eliza Madrigal: or walk right through
Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, i have that issue too
Eliza Madrigal: more lately?
Yakuzza Lethecus: i sit down here and i am rendered at the edge of the sim
Yakuzza Lethecus: while i can read that chat
SophiaSharon Larnia: weird
Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, the last couple of days
Eliza Madrigal: quite

Experience...

Eliza Madrigal stretches and breathes
SophiaSharon Larnia: re: beleifs, what do you thing the connection between these ideas are Eliza?
SophiaSharon Larnia: think*
Eliza Madrigal: with avatar ideas, pab ideas, beliefs, views?
SophiaSharon Larnia: Eliza Madrigal: because beliefs are 'over there' or 'that person's idea/view'... not 'wrong' maybe 'right', but still not the same as experience/connection
SophiaSharon Larnia: is a connection formed by experience?
Eliza Madrigal: Ah :) My sense is hm... direct experience of underlying stillness
Eliza Madrigal: yes!
SophiaSharon Larnia: maybe that why pab memebers fell a connection in rl
SophiaSharon Larnia: feel*
Eliza Madrigal: So thinking is wonderful, and views are fascinating .. but richer and nourished by connection through the pauses... space
Eliza Madrigal: Sharon, yes....
Eliza Madrigal: or why you meet someone in other contexts and feel comfortable with them too
--BELL--

Mention of pesky facts sparks talk of food! :D We manage then to wander into Sustainability, whether we thought so at the time or not... 

SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
Eliza Madrigal: an openness that's been tended to maybe? I like that here we actually talk about it... its like unearthing confidence rather than 'learning' in a traditional way by adding facts.
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye for now everyone!
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes those pesty facts
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Ya :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Yakuzza!
Eliza Madrigal: heheh Sharon
Eliza Madrigal: Well facts in themselves are fun too...
Fael Illyar: have fun Yaku :)
Fael Illyar: my dinner, beans in tomato sauce and 2 fried eggs :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, they are, but factual in theory lol
Eliza Madrigal: hehehe
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh my. sounds like something i would make
SophiaSharon Larnia: giggles
Fael Illyar smiles.
SophiaSharon Larnia: and then not tell anyone
Eliza Madrigal guffaws
SophiaSharon Larnia: XD
Fael Illyar: I have no idea why I'm eating this. Just had to buy the beans in the shop when I saw the can :)
Eliza Madrigal: funny :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: hahaha
Fael Illyar: and now couldn't think of eating anything else :)
Eliza Madrigal eats in waves... themes... like a month of everything with spinach... then onions... bizarre
Fael Illyar: like this was a long lost delicacy I can eat again finally :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: lol
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Eliza Madrigal: delight in the simple things :)
Eliza Madrigal: the other night I contemplated the peas in the sautee pan... buttery, shimmery... like jewelry...
SophiaSharon Larnia: I realized the other day my diet is so boring i buy the same things
Eliza Madrigal nods... here too Sharon
Fael Illyar: I also thought of buying meat in the shop but couldn't bring myself to put any into my basket
SophiaSharon Larnia: i approach the store in the same way, pick up the same things
SophiaSharon Larnia: i think i approach life like that too
Eliza Madrigal: easy to do
Eliza Madrigal: the groove...
Fael Illyar: I never make list in advance :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: me either, its in my groove mind
Fael Illyar: except note in my head what I need more of
Eliza Madrigal would exhaust everyone to describe how I shop... so am restraining
Eliza Madrigal: heheh
Fael Illyar: and then in the shop I sometimes pick up things that surprise me :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh so your the one at the checkout with all the coupons? lol
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, nice... so you leave room, Fael?
Eliza Madrigal: I *should* be the one with the coupons... but I'm the one going to three diff stores....
Fael Illyar: I usually choose my dinner when I'm at the shop :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: yup metoo
SophiaSharon Larnia: brbr
Fael Illyar: I might use coupons but I don't know where to get them :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: The thing is... coupons are so varying and some places take them one day and not another...
Fael Illyar: thankfully, the shops often have surprise discounts:)
Fael Illyar: especially Lidl
Eliza Madrigal: so I only use them if I have a blanket one $30 off $150.. that kind of thing
Eliza Madrigal: Lidl?
Fael Illyar: I often take those :)
Fael Illyar: it's the newest chain to enter Finnish markets
Fael Illyar: German originally
Eliza Madrigal: Ah... will take a while to get to Miami...
Fael Illyar: almost completely different inventory from any other shop in Finland
Eliza Madrigal: how so? more natural, or?
SophiaSharon Larnia: hmm,
Fael Illyar: it's german products mostly
Fael Illyar: some Finnish products have been slowly appearing on the shelves too
Fael Illyar: along with some Finnish brands that are rarely seen in other Finnish chain stores
Eliza Madrigal likes to take field trips with her kids to a particular tiny grocery... and touch everything... often we come away with just one or two things.. but the environment is so sweet...
SophiaSharon Larnia: i honestly dont know the difference, unless the label is in another language?
SophiaSharon Larnia: but then i buy the same stuff, which how i end up with beans and eggs ;p
Fael Illyar: I can't explain the difference but it's there :)
Eliza Madrigal: hahaha Sharon

Food shopping...

Fael Illyar: Lidl has some great products unbelievable cheap but then others quite crappy.
SophiaSharon Larnia: everything cheapest here in the staes in the worst for you
Eliza Madrigal: amazing how much the mundane things add up
Eliza Madrigal: true, Sharon... insult to injury
SophiaSharon Larnia: ugg typos - states* , is*
SophiaSharon Larnia: truely injury to insult
Eliza Madrigal: and the packaging is taking over... inflating prices, etc
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: preservatives...
SophiaSharon Larnia: salt
Eliza Madrigal: yes, ugh
SophiaSharon Larnia: fake food
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Fael Illyar: it's a sad situation that appearance sells better than the actual contents
Fael Illyar: it's like, don't people pay attention to what it tastes like.
Eliza Madrigal: its the silliness of thinking we need 'more' 'time', too
Eliza Madrigal: instead of savoring time...
Eliza Madrigal: finding joy in the prep of fresh food, wandering the market....
Fael Illyar: I'd think the more time thinking is because people want more time they could savor.
Eliza Madrigal is NOT implying she lives this way
Eliza Madrigal: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: lol
Eliza Madrigal nods to Fael...
Fael Illyar: not more time as such
SophiaSharon Larnia: i like wandering farmer markets but to look at the other stuff than food to
Eliza Madrigal: but then that becomes another idea... 'when I ___, then I'll ___'?
Eliza Madrigal remembers a time she used to watch food channel a lot... didn't help the cooking... hehehe
SophiaSharon Larnia: used to record the food channel
SophiaSharon Larnia: lol
Eliza Madrigal: yes me too! heheh
SophiaSharon Larnia: 'back in the day'
Eliza Madrigal: before SL...
Eliza Madrigal: now we eat virtual food....
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles

Sharon mentions this weekend's theme session, which brings us to discuss a topic which has struck a chord with many of us... 

SophiaSharon Larnia: im thnking i may be stuck in a storm for the theme session this saturday
Eliza Madrigal: Oh... they expect it to be that bad again?
SophiaSharon Larnia: which is big session
Eliza Madrigal: yes, I'm set to miss it too...
SophiaSharon Larnia: the Malta retreat rememberances with everyone
Eliza Madrigal: have my favorite (not) appointment of the week at 1SL
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes but this time they are more vague in their forcasting
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, so maybe it will be okay...
SophiaSharon Larnia: 2" to 18"... depends on how the wind blows
Eliza Madrigal: I'm looking forward to that session... should be about integration, right?
SophiaSharon Larnia: im not sure
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, afterward :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Wol has been sharing some powerful ideas along those lines
SophiaSharon Larnia feels very vague in here life, depends on how the wind blows :)))
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, indeed
Fael Illyar smiles.
Eliza Madrigal: I've been quite moved... have been looking at that 'processing' idea deeply
SophiaSharon Larnia: very interesting to read that log, i experienced a mini version of that after the princeton reteat, but wouldnt have said so, because i thoght it was just me
Eliza Madrigal: Really?
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
Eliza Madrigal: Did you see I wrote that I had a good cry....
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
Eliza Madrigal: definitely an important discussion to have
Eliza Madrigal: there is great potential to make life changes after such a concentrated experience...
Eliza Madrigal: we see more clearly... even though it can be painful

Eliza Madrigal: its really important though... am grateful to Wol for being open
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes very much
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, yes.. hard to see what a great value sensitivity has...
Eliza Madrigal: when carrying it, doesn't feel like a 'great' quality :)))

Plugging in and unplugging...

SophiaSharon Larnia: ive tried to pin down after reading the log, what it is that creates the feeling
Eliza Madrigal: What have you discovered?
SophiaSharon Larnia: well, i have many answers to that which lead to more questions, which can only be asked of the person who states these things
Eliza Madrigal nods
SophiaSharon Larnia: part of it is a lose of connection
Eliza Madrigal nods nods
SophiaSharon Larnia: plugging in and unplugging
SophiaSharon Larnia: part of it is the role you assume when you plug in
--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: hmmm
SophiaSharon Larnia: i think the ones who may feel the most distress, are the ones who have the most disparities between there plugged in and unplugged roles
Eliza Madrigal: that makes sense to me
SophiaSharon Larnia: but that is just a theory, i have to ask
SophiaSharon Larnia: i am assuming
Eliza Madrigal: Well, what others share resonates... so it isn't just an experience of the other...
Eliza Madrigal: what it brought up for me was something we talked about a bit in WoK... which was a sense of one's life being buried...
Eliza Madrigal: and getting a sense of that... feels overwhelming... but can be a good thing because one begins to sort it out
Eliza Madrigal: get some space/ light in there...
Eliza Madrigal: amidst what seemed like something solid...
Eliza Madrigal: and maybe... hm.... it works itself... is the funny thing
SophiaSharon Larnia: keep the light in there
Eliza Madrigal: starts a process... yes :))
SophiaSharon Larnia: hard to do alone
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Eliza Madrigal: "we need each other"
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
Eliza Madrigal: :))

Sharon shares a moment...

SophiaSharon Larnia: i have a strange experience to share, for me its strange
Eliza Madrigal listens
SophiaSharon Larnia: pendantic to others maybe
Fael Illyar: go ahead :)
Eliza Madrigal doubts that
SophiaSharon Larnia: i was trying to write something and found my self critical self jumping up and down and yelling
SophiaSharon Larnia: and took a break by reading the chat logs
Fael Illyar smiles 'I love that expression.'
Eliza Madrigal: :)))
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
SophiaSharon Larnia: (like the brat that it is)
Eliza Madrigal: hahah
SophiaSharon Larnia: and ran across some rl pictures of people
SophiaSharon Larnia: and 'saw' them
SophiaSharon Larnia: like i wanted to reach into the picture and hold their arm
SophiaSharon Larnia: the self critical self retreated
SophiaSharon Larnia: enough so I could ignore it
SophiaSharon Larnia: it was interesting to me
Eliza Madrigal: How touching! Sharon, I'm so inspired.
Eliza Madrigal: Were you able to get into a flow then? enjoy the writing?
Eliza Madrigal: like tapping into tree of souls....
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, better, i was seeing people. not some vague notion
Eliza Madrigal: that's quite powerful, thank you for sharing that
Eliza Madrigal pauses to consider

SophiaSharon Larnia: for someone who is at introverted as I am, to find comfort in the idea of real live people, seeing there faces nonthreatening
SophiaSharon Larnia: typos again :)) sorries
Eliza Madrigal: no worries... what you are conveying translates
Eliza Madrigal: wow..  like getting to a soft spot...
--BELL--

SophiaSharon Larnia: i should go i am supposed to be doing something im not doing LOL
Eliza Madrigal: heheh
Eliza Madrigal: Aren't we all :))
Eliza Madrigal: hahahah
Fael Illyar smiles 'No shoulds there, really.'
Fael Illyar: only choices.
Eliza Madrigal: This has been wonderful though. I'm very grateful
Eliza Madrigal: :))) @ Fael
SophiaSharon Larnia: :))
Fael Illyar: do you wish to choose to go do that something now? :)
Eliza Madrigal: hahahaha
SophiaSharon Larnia: haha would rather not-do the doing, ill try that today
Eliza Madrigal: tapping into non-doing by placing oneself in position that doing may happen on its own
Fael Illyar: let the body do :)
Eliza Madrigal: yes.... the great body, too....
Fael Illyar: don't tell it it must not not do :)
Eliza Madrigal: hahah
SophiaSharon Larnia: ive played a bit with this notion, not doing, it has felt thus far like i was putting myself on autopilet, which is not the point ;))
Eliza Madrigal: it must have many subtle points....
Fael Illyar: if you tell yourself not to do something, you reinforce the idea of doing that something :)
Eliza Madrigal: auto-pilot can bypass the critic too....
Fael Illyar: negating doesn't work.
SophiaSharon Larnia: smacks too much for trancing outfor confort
Eliza Madrigal: Ohhh, remembers your saying "don't think of an elephant", Fael...
Fael Illyar: yep, same thing :)
Fael Illyar: someone tells you that and ... good luck not thinking about the elephant :)
Eliza Madrigal: why the second I think "I should eat less" I eat more
Eliza Madrigal: and works in reverse too...
SophiaSharon Larnia: i should eat alot more than hahahaha
Eliza Madrigal: hahahaha

Fael Illyar: the natural mind doesn't understand the difference between "allowed" and "not allowed"
Fael Illyar: it only understands the idea of what is being allowed
Eliza Madrigal: sounds like a programming trick :)
Fael Illyar: well it kind of is :)
Eliza Madrigal: Neat
Fael Illyar: you have to speak language the "processor" understands to get things done :)
Eliza Madrigal: "Here's a cookie, Chester"

Eliza Madrigal: Okay... now all those things that want to be done are showing up on the visual screen....
SophiaSharon Larnia: haha
Fael Illyar smiles.
Eliza Madrigal: beckoning.... come play....
SophiaSharon Larnia: i do have to go now, thank you so much and bye for now :))
Eliza Madrigal: we're your friends too... hehhe
Eliza Madrigal: Bye guys
Eliza Madrigal: :))))
SophiaSharon Larnia: waves
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks again Sharon
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks again Fael... glad we all lingered :)
Fael Illyar: have fun Eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: You too :) Talk to some strangers... hehe
Fael Illyar: maybe I will :)
Fael Illyar: you too :)
Eliza Madrigal: me too! yes :)

Fael Illyar waves.
Eliza Madrigal: (and twirls, cute) Bye :)