2010.02.20 13:00 - Cheese and Holograms

The Guardian for this meeting was SophiaSharon Larnia. The comments are by Bertram, Tine, Wol, Adams, Yakuzza, Eos, Mickorod, Arabella and SophiaSharon Larnia.

Bertram Jacobus: http://dict.leo.org/
Bertram Jacobus: hello sophia ... :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi!!
Tine Janus: hello

Tine Janus: hey sophia..i´m tine
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Tine, I haven't seen you before :))
Bertram Jacobus: she came with me. a rl friend ... :-))
SophiaSharon Larnia: Have you been at play as being before?
SophiaSharon Larnia: ah nice :)
Tine Janus: i am new :-) a friend of bertram
SophiaSharon Larnia: yayy
Bertram Jacobus: so she knows about recording and gave ok already ;-)
Bertram Jacobus: hy adams ! ... :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: Ok!! I was just typing that out thanks! heheh
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Adams!!
Bertram Jacobus: :-)
Tine Janus: hi
Adams Rubble: Hello Sharon, Bertram and Tine :)
Wol Euler: hello invisibles
Tine Janus: hello adams
SophiaSharon Larnia: I'm sure you did a great job explaining everyhting then, Bert :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Wol
Adams Rubble: Hello Yak :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Yak
Tine Janus: hello yaku und wol
Bertram Jacobus: hey yaku and wol :-)
Adams Rubble: Hello Wol :)
SophiaSharon Larnia zooms in on Bert's avi
Bertram Jacobus: hehe sophia. i hope so - tine ? still questions ? ;-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Tine Janus: in the moment no bert
Bertram Jacobus: ty sophia ;-))
Adams Rubble: Nice to meet you Tine :)
Bertram Jacobus: nice (tine) :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes!
Tine Janus: thank you adams
Tine Janus: ;-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: I didnt think of a topic for today, not that I think that's what a guardian has to do exactly
SophiaSharon Larnia: anyone have anything they want to talk about?
Wol Euler: we could talk about cheese.
Bertram Jacobus: i don´t think so either sophia ... ;-)
Bertram Jacobus: lol wol - why that ? :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: yay
Wol Euler grins and shrugs.
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
Adams Rubble: cheese is very good at not doing
Wol Euler: wow, tine, you're ancient! nearly four years old.
Bertram Jacobus: yaaaayaaaahh
Bertram Jacobus likes sophias ani ... ;-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: heheheh
Yakuzza Lethecus: i bet cheese isn´t good at not doing if you zoom in very closely
SophiaSharon Larnia: hmm Yak
Tine Janus: yes very old wol
Adams Rubble: Is it the chesse that is doing when you zoom in?
Yakuzza Lethecus: good point adams :)
SophiaSharon Larnia wonders what the world looks like through cheese, but that is cheesy
Wol Euler: through swiss cheese, perhaps.
Bertram Jacobus: :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia giggles
SophiaSharon Larnia: whoops
Yakuzza Lethecus: good that there ain´t any smell features in second life :)
Bertram Jacobus: sophia is very animated (!) ... :-)
Yakuzza Lethecus: otherwise talking about cheese could end up a very smelly topic :)
Bertram Jacobus: they will come yaku, they will come - i hope (and you will be able to switch them off, as all here) ... :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes was experimenting with the shadow feature in sl, and kept crashing :0
SophiaSharon Larnia: graphic at ultra
Bertram Jacobus feels peace ...
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles at Bert
Bertram Jacobus and joy ...
SophiaSharon Larnia: H Eos
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi*
Bertram Jacobus: hello eos ! ... :-)
Yakuzza Lethecus: eos! :)
Adams Rubble: Hello Eos :)
Bertram Jacobus: long time no see :o)
Eos Amaterasu: Hi gang!
Wol Euler: hello eos

Yakuzza Lethecus: hi mick :)
Bertram Jacobus: heyy mick ... :-)
Tine Janus: hey eos und mickorod
Mickorod Renard: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Mick
Bertram Jacobus: oops :o)
SophiaSharon Larnia: theres no topic yet Eos and Mick, we were just talking about cheese
Adams Rubble: Hello Mick :)
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Mick
Wol Euler: hello mick
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: brb
Bertram Jacobus: (and i began to feel peace!) ... :o)
Eos Amaterasu: at the thought of cheese?
Mickorod Renard: cheese,,,mmmm
Bertram Jacobus: no ? :-)
Bertram Jacobus: more at "no topic" :-)
Eos Amaterasu: oh, no topic
Bertram Jacobus: pure emptiness ... *g*
Mickorod Renard: I was woken this morning with thoughts of the universe
Bertram Jacobus: which ones mick ? :-)
Yakuzza Lethecus: a usual one or a holographic one ? :)
Eos Amaterasu listens
SophiaSharon Larnia: listens
Mickorod Renard: yes,,the holographic one
Mickorod Renard: and fractals etc
Yakuzza Lethecus: http://www.newscientist.com/article/...html?full=true
Eos Amaterasu ponders the full=true part
Wol Euler: empty=false seems a facile analysis
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Eos Amaterasu: true
Mickorod Renard: I was facinated by my minds ability to ponder these things while still half asleep yet with a secondary conciousness observing the thoughts in motion
Eos Amaterasu: ah
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes!! thanks for stating that so concisely
SophiaSharon Larnia: i used a thousand words to myself
Mickorod Renard: yes?
SophiaSharon Larnia: been thinking a lot about it
Mickorod Renard: of course,,it all made sense when I was an observer,,but now fully awake I find it hard to make any sense of it all
SophiaSharon Larnia: although the first flush of introspection has passed, thank god, was feeling somewhat manic there for a minute
Mickorod Renard: I felt like that too
SophiaSharon Larnia: at the idea
SophiaSharon Larnia: like AHHH a puzzle piece found yes yes yes
Eos Amaterasu: manic.... somewhat panic?
SophiaSharon Larnia: that too
Mickorod Renard: often,,the only feeling I get left with is that perhaps time doesnt always flow in the direction we observe it flowing
SophiaSharon Larnia: like thoughts a mile a sec, slllow down
Mickorod Renard: yea
arabella Ella: Hiya
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Ara
Adams Rubble: Hello Arabella :)
Wol Euler: hello ara
Yakuzza Lethecus: ara :)
Eos Amaterasu: Can you say more about the puzzle itself, Sophia?
Eos Amaterasu: Hi ara
Bertram Jacobus: hi ara ... :-)
Mickorod Renard: Hi Ara
Tine Janus: hello ara
SophiaSharon Larnia: like living in this body, in this time, I'm accumulating information to find some truths
SophiaSharon Larnia: but some would say it is to experience them :)
Eos Amaterasu: real-ize them
SophiaSharon Larnia: whoa just had a sense of deja-vu
Mickorod Renard: he he he
Mickorod Renard: the more we ask the more we want to know
Bertram Jacobus: i seem to be the only one - okay - with tine - we are two - who does not know and understand that holographic universe idea ... hm -
SophiaSharon Larnia: can you say more?
Mickorod Renard: no, I dont think anyone knows the truth about it Bert

Bertram Jacobus: but i don´t even know the concept of it yet (!) (sry for this lazyness : not having studied it yet) ...
Mickorod Renard: I get the feeling it is beyond our conception at this point
Bertram Jacobus: but that could also perhaps be a chance : could somebody tell it in a few words perhaps ? the essence, the essential thoughts ?
arabella Ella: yes please?
Eos Amaterasu: how about, everything experiencable is virtual
Mickorod Renard: please dont look at me
arabella Ella: like Matrix?
Eos Amaterasu: I can see right through you, Mick (I'm neutrino man!)
Mickorod Renard: he he
SophiaSharon Larnia wants a nice scientist to explain it to me
Eos Amaterasu: Matrix played with that, though not totally
Eos Amaterasu: maybe
Eos Amaterasu: Pema is a nice scientist
SophiaSharon Larnia: in small words, like pooh
Wol Euler: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: grins
arabella Ella: in simple everyday words please?
SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
Eos Amaterasu recalls playing pooh-sticks
arabella Ella: for those of us like me with simple minds
SophiaSharon Larnia: hehe
Tine Janus: :-)
Bertram Jacobus raises his finger to accompany ara ... (sry) :o)
arabella Ella: thanks Bert :)
Bertram Jacobus: :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: whats pooh sticks?
Bertram Jacobus: so nobody can explain ?
Eos Amaterasu: you drop a stick in the water, where it's flowing, and have to catch it further downstream
Mickorod Renard: I get the feeling that the holographic behavior may actually be part of what may give us the added dimension from just being flat..it may have a specific effect on what makes mass have gravity
SophiaSharon Larnia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_principle
SophiaSharon Larnia: ive thought of it more on the 3 dimensions of matter... 2 being the film and 1 being the light, figuratively
arabella Ella: Sophia could you past first part definition here please as not all of us can open web while on SL
Mickorod Renard: thats like what I was thinkin too
SophiaSharon Larnia: ahh np
Bertram Jacobus: brave mick - ty !
Eos Amaterasu: So Sophia, your felt sense was of being projected through your time-space body?
Eos Amaterasu: [13:27] SophiaSharon Larnia: like living in this body, in this time, I'm accumulating information to find some truths
Mickorod Renard: as we may all know,,some structures in things,,like water fror example,,are like in shapes,,like pyramids..but they only have qualities when exposed to certain things,,we as such may be similar and need the holographic effect to be realized
arabella Ella: perhaps the structures only emerge when perceived by us humans?
arabella Ella: maybe they are only part of our perception?
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh my, finding a good definition is hard to find...
arabella Ella: no worries Soph
SophiaSharon Larnia: it builds so much on previous statements!
arabella Ella: dont worry its ok
arabella Ella: thanks anyway
SophiaSharon Larnia: Eos, like knowing everythign i was seeing may be a projection
Eos Amaterasu: sense organs and perceived sense objects co-emerge
Mickorod Renard: we could all me like writing or drawings on a flat page,,but when in an environment stimulated by holographic emmision behave in our present form
SophiaSharon Larnia: that it in essense was not solid or real, same idea as ive been hearing about for so long but having some basis in scientific inquiry
Mickorod Renard: I was also thinking of black holes in my sleep too
Eos Amaterasu: and it took billions of years of evolution to produce us the way we are, so we are also somewhat embedded in that history
Tine Janus: :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: all of our cells holding all of that information
SophiaSharon Larnia: a part of that hologram
Eos Amaterasu: (must be thrilling!)
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Eliza
Mickorod Renard: I , for some reason,,decided to fly around a black hole..and was amused to find that the hole had no side to it,,it was a hole all the way around
SophiaSharon Larnia: wow Mick
arabella Ella: Hiya Eliza!
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Eliza
Mickorod Renard: Hi eliza
Tine Janus: hi eliza
Bertram Jacobus: tine is not so safe with her english yet, but asked - and i find that is a very good question : what does the idea of holographic universe mean to you all ?
Eos Amaterasu ponders "the hole had no side to it"
Adams Rubble: Hello eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sharon, Ara, Eos, Mick, Bert, Tine (nice to meet you), Ya, Adams
Bertram Jacobus: hey eliza ... :-)
Wol Euler: hello eliza
Adams Rubble: I must leave you all. Bye for now :)
Mickorod Renard: which seemed odd cos for some reason I thought I wud be able to see what went on from behind
Eliza Madrigal: And now I see Wol, hello :)
Mickorod Renard: Bye Adams
arabella Ella: bye Adams
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Adams!
Wol Euler: bye adams, take care.
Eliza Madrigal: Apologies Tine, not a nice way to say hello... standing on you
Eos Amaterasu: "she comes in colors everywhere"
Eos Amaterasu: were you able to communicate with the black hole, Mick?

SophiaSharon Larnia: it means to me personally that there is some basis for the idea of world as illusion, sorry but i need to touch it, as a kind of consensus or (not proof) but that im not going down the wrong track here
Tine Janus: its ok eliza.. :-)
Mickorod Renard: I always have the fall back on God,,as a believer,,but this is useful for me as a safety cushion from having too outlandish idea's too soon
SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
arabella Ella: But ... can we every touch 'the truth' ... and why should we need to?
Eos Amaterasu: The subtle thing about "world as illusion" is that the "as" part is the most important
arabella Ella: what difference would that make to our lives?
arabella Ella: would it make any difference ... i doubt it
Eos Amaterasu: it can make a difference to our suffering, I think
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes Ara, I've been thinking about this need, too
Eos Amaterasu: "can", "could"
Eos Amaterasu: world _is_ illusion implies there's some non-virtual solidity
Eos Amaterasu: world _is like_ illusion uses illusion as a metaphor
SophiaSharon Larnia: whereas 'as' could mean it could be something else, too?
Eos Amaterasu: even whatever we think of as solid is really virtual
arabella Ella: i think searching for 'truth' is impossible and only adds to suffering with no benefits
Eos Amaterasu: so there's no solid separate from virtuality
SophiaSharon Larnia: true Ara
Eos Amaterasu: like Pooh searching for the North Pole?
Eliza Madrigal: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: then what am i doing here then ok bye everyone!! (just kidding)
Eliza Madrigal: hahaaha
arabella Ella: apologies for moving to theoretical philosophy here but i think Kant was right when he said that we only 'know' what our senses allow and only in the way our senses permit us ... to see ... touch ... or whatever
SophiaSharon Larnia: 'our senses allow'
arabella Ella: in his words ... Kant ... we can never know 'things as they are in themselves'
Eos Amaterasu: Goethe said, any object well contemplated generates its corresponding organ of perceptin
Bertram Jacobus: how can he know that ?
Eliza Madrigal: limited by the know-er
Eos Amaterasu: perception
arabella Ella: because our sense perception limits us
Bertram Jacobus: (kant i meant)
arabella Ella: it is like wearing 3 D glasses
Eos Amaterasu: and all our sense-perception organs are generated
Bertram Jacobus: ah
arabella Ella: yes Bert Kant
Bertram Jacobus: ok. got it. ty.
Eos Amaterasu: Immanuel's son
arabella Ella: nooooooo
Eliza Madrigal: hehe
arabella Ella: Imanuel himself
arabella Ella: again ... apologies for the theoretical philosophy :)
Eliza Madrigal: Not at all, Ara :)
Eos Amaterasu: hardly theoretical - affects everything we see, hear, ...
arabella Ella: exactly
arabella Ella: in philosophy it is called the Copernican revolution
arabella Ella: Humans are no longer the 'centre' of their universe
arabella Ella: as had previously been assumed
Eos Amaterasu notes that Bertram has gone N'avi
arabella Ella: yes ... a cool Na'vi
Wol Euler: shocked him to sleep
SophiaSharon Larnia: lol
Bertram Jacobus confirms it (being na´vi) ... ;-)
arabella Ella: you need a Na'vi name now Bert
Yakuzza Lethecus wonders if bertram doesn´t have a fine na vi avatar for ara in order to have her complaining about humans more seriously :)
arabella Ella: yesssssss
Bertram Jacobus: i considered it whether i should use a new account for it ...
arabella Ella: sooooo STUPID Yaku .... smile
Eliza Madrigal: apologies to pop away so soon... bit of a stand off with teens wanting to go to the mall :) See you all later
Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
arabella Ella: bye Eliza
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Eliza!
Bertram Jacobus: bye elizaaaaa
Eos Amaterasu: Eliza loses the standoff :-)
Wol Euler: :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye eliza
Eliza Madrigal waves and yes , surrenders :)
Wol Euler: bye eliza, fight the good fight
Eos Amaterasu: Hi to the teens!
Bertram Jacobus: lol ara ... :-))
Mickorod Renard: bye eliza
SophiaSharon Larnia: once again brought back down to earth, need to read more :)
Mickorod Renard: owwww..too late
arabella Ella: YOU ARE HUMAN YAKU ..... SO STUPIDDDDD
Eos Amaterasu: ara is quoting from the Avatar movie, yes?
arabella Ella: (joking of course and bringing back retreat memories)
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
arabella Ella: (just for the sake of the Log)
Bertram Jacobus: *smiles brightly* ... :-)
arabella Ella: :)
Bertram Jacobus: yes eos
Mickorod Renard: maybe u need to take out the silly jottings from me about my thoughts on the universe,,just in case it makes this site look so amature
Mickorod Renard: he he

SophiaSharon Larnia: re: Copernican, this idea of a holographic universe would imply the center is in everything, that there is no center?
arabella Ella: it is like when Copernicus had proved that the sun and not Earth is the centre of the universe
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
Eos Amaterasu: even seemingly solid "knock on wood" is not a solid reference point
arabella Ella: now since Kant Humans are no longer the central (know all) element in the universe
Mickorod Renard: I think we have a tendancy to look at our perception of the universe in a way we can relate in everyday terms,,but in fact much is beyond our simple comprehension,,some adaption hasd to be made
Bertram Jacobus: silly jottings ? didn´t get some (!?) ... :-)
arabella Ella: after all as Eos just said ... matter is molecules in motion
arabella Ella: and physical matter is still a mystery
Eos Amaterasu: who's pulling the strings?
arabella Ella: (as is also consciousness ... also a HUGE mystery)
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, i understood that, i used the word Copernicus only to imply the idea of something not being the center, will look for a better term
arabella Ella: do we need to know who is pulling the strings Eos?
arabella Ella: does it make any difference?
Bertram Jacobus: i like the idea of "no differences" - on the one hand ... :-)
Eos Amaterasu: looking "inside" the strings, inside the theory, is a natural tropism we seem to have
SophiaSharon Larnia: hmm have to go now, take care every one :))
Yakuzza Lethecus: good night :)
Eos Amaterasu: 'night
arabella Ella: bye SophiaSharon
Mickorod Renard: we can all secretly have our own beliefs,,as long as we create no taboo's re asking questions
Bertram Jacobus: bye sophia
Mickorod Renard: nite sophia
Tine Janus: bye sophia
Wol Euler: bye sharon
arabella Ella: why should we create taboos by asking questions Mick?
Yakuzza Lethecus: i was also about to go :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: night :)
Mickorod Renard: I thought I said we shouldnt create them
Bertram Jacobus: good night yaku
arabella Ella: nite Yaku and thanks for bringing back some lovely retreat memories
Mickorod Renard: nite yaku
Wol Euler: 'night yaku
Eos Amaterasu: 'night yak
Tine Janus: good night yku
Mickorod Renard: I was thinkin,,that like copernium and others,,they were often suppressed by religion
arabella Ella: (trying to make us more symmetrical for Wol :) )
Wol Euler: :)))
Wol Euler: ty
Wol Euler: it
Eos Amaterasu: "don't look there" was what religion said
Wol Euler: it's nice to have one's oddities indulged.
arabella Ella: Wol's now got me addicted to symmetry here
arabella Ella: its addictive believe me
Bertram Jacobus: "okay" - i´ll leave - have a nice time all , ty and - may all beings be happy, please (!) ...
Eos Amaterasu: we'll do our best :-)
arabella Ella: nite Bert and be happy too :)
Wol Euler: bye bert
Eos Amaterasu: /||\
Tine Janus: thank you for beeing here and bye ,i wish you a goog night and well sleep
Mickorod Renard: nite nite
arabella Ella: ir¡yo
Mickorod Renard: I must move on now too
arabella Ella: (thank you in Na'vi)
Bertram Jacobus: ir¡yo ... :-))
Mickorod Renard: family awaits
Eos Amaterasu is astounded that arabella now knows Na'vi
arabella Ella: yes i am learning
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
arabella Ella: ngaru lu fpom srak?
Mickorod Renard: nice to see u guys anyway,,
arabella Ella: (how r u)
Eos Amaterasu: Ciao all, must leave
Wol Euler: :)
Wol Euler: bye mick, take care
Wol Euler: bye eos, enjoy
Mickorod Renard: bye Wol
arabella Ella: oél ngáti kámeie (I see you or Hallo)
arabella Ella: nite Wol, Eos
arabella Ella: I must go too bye all
Wol Euler: bye ara, sleep well.
arabella Ella: thanks Wol you too and take care!
Wol Euler: I guess we're all off then :)