2010.02.22 01:00 - Is Life Just a Game?

The Guardian for this meeting was Tarmel Udimo. The comments are by Tarmel Udimo. When I arrived Calvino and Yakuzza were already there - before the first bell we had a chit chat...

Calvino Rabeni: I predict Tarmel will be here soon
Calvino Rabeni: You appear floating
Yakuzza Lethecus: lol, this graphic glitch :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, its my meditation practice
Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: only real gurus fly over the pillow :)
Calvino Rabeni: SL has these unexplainable glitches, like the software is somewhat random
Yakuzza Lethecus: but i was always wondering if that rendered for everyone in the same way
Yakuzza Lethecus: good evening tarmel
Tarmel Udimo: Hi Yak and Cal
Tarmel Udimo: how are we tonight/this morning?
Calvino Rabeni: We are well
Tarmel Udimo: good
Tarmel Udimo: what was that about flying over the pillow
Tarmel Udimo: :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: ah, a graphic glitch for me
Yakuzza Lethecus: that sometimes happens
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Tarmel Udimo: I have been trying to bring down the prims on my house by using a rezz box but to no avail:(
Calvino Rabeni: I love those earrings, Tarmel :)
Tarmel Udimo: oh tks Calvino - got them in the Wasteland of all places:)
Calvino Rabeni: :) the rez box didn't work, too bad :(
Tarmel Udimo: very clever they are little light bulbs
Calvino Rabeni: Yes
Tarmel Udimo: yes it is too bad it didn't work as i spent quite a long time on it:(
Tarmel Udimo: and how is your film program going Yak?
Yakuzza Lethecus: film program ?
Yakuzza Lethecus: thats gaya's project :)
Tarmel Udimo: oh I thought u were involved
Yakuzza Lethecus: nah, i watch too many movies but this project happens only once in a while
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Yakuzza Lethecus: so in some way film buff is fitting to me
Tarmel Udimo: ok
Yakuzza Lethecus: i still consider it a bad habit :)
Tarmel Udimo: how many movies per wek?
Yakuzza Lethecus: i guess nearly 1 a day + tv shows
Yakuzza Lethecus: not even german ones
Yakuzza Lethecus: and no regular tv
Tarmel Udimo: oh i see really addicted:)
Yakuzza Lethecus: I consider the mass media as somekind of drug
Tarmel Udimo: fair enough:)
Tarmel Udimo: and what do you get out of it?
Yakuzza Lethecus: actually i don´t know
Yakuzza Lethecus: i can´t even tell the plot´s after i´ve seen the movies
Yakuzza Lethecus: i remember elements, i have ethical and moral questions that i am not exactly able to formulate
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Tarmel Udimo: but do you make choices about what type of film
Tarmel Udimo: or do you give yourself permission to watch anything:)

--BELL-- Then Bertram arrived dressed as a Navi from Pandor fame.. this led us to talk about the movie which then led us to talk about humans on the planet. Just before the next bell we were joined by new comer Roger Ormenthal..

Bertram Jacobus: good morning all ...
Bertram Jacobus: sry : morning in germany
Tarmel Udimo: morning Betrum
Tarmel Udimo: you are looking very ahhhh
Tarmel Udimo: avatarish?
Bertram Jacobus: ahh ? in a good or bad way ? :-)
Tarmel Udimo: oh good
Bertram Jacobus: yess - i play a little bit in pandora now here, in sl, too. like it so much, the avatar ideas and ideals ...
Tarmel Udimo: oh ok
Tarmel Udimo: this sounds like fun
Bertram Jacobus: i love it
Tarmel Udimo: did u make your own AV or was this a downloadable one
Bertram Jacobus: i bought it in many parts, searched and put together
Bertram Jacobus: some were free too
Tarmel Udimo: very good
Tarmel Udimo: have either of you - calvino or ya been to Pandora?
Bertram Jacobus: ty :-) . again : i simply love it and am thankful for all these possibilities we have now. to play. as beings ... :-)
Tarmel Udimo: Yak (sorry)
Yakuzza Lethecus: not to the region
Tarmel Udimo: ok well betrum will be able to give us a tour:)
Yakuzza Lethecus: but yes to the movie, obviously
Tarmel Udimo: and are there humans there too?
Calvino Rabeni: I've been to neither place, no
Bertram Jacobus: sure ! but sry - by the way : i´m not bertrum - thats another member of us. i´m bertram ;-)
Tarmel Udimo: sorry I have done this before
Bertram Jacobus: yes, there are humans, too. " abig problem sometimes" (in the roleplay) (and in rl!) ;-) - but one can be there as visitor
Tarmel Udimo: yes humans:(
Bertram Jacobus: and we are (!) ... quite hard situation, big challenge to solve this
Tarmel Udimo: what humans:)
Bertram Jacobus: to transform into a good situation
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Tarmel Udimo: yes which is why we must do it all individually
Bertram Jacobus: yes. our human task ... heavy sometimes ... but the more experienced people ... may see it really as a game ... to play ... more free ...
Tarmel Udimo: trying to do it as a group doesn't really work i don't think
Bertram Jacobus: but others can help
Bertram Jacobus: inspire and such
Tarmel Udimo: yes well to be in a situation to see it this way is a luxury
Tarmel Udimo: I wander where this idea of life being a game came from
Yakuzza Lethecus: hello roger
Calvino Rabeni: yes- sangha is important help
Bertram Jacobus: hi roger :-)
Tarmel Udimo: I mean In know the hindus talk about the 'dance of life'
Roger Ormenthal: Hello everyone.
Tarmel Udimo: hi Roger - welcome
Bertram Jacobus: that was exactly what i thought cal ... :-)
Tarmel Udimo: have you been here before roger?
Bertram Jacobus: yes tarmel ...
Roger Ormenthal: No, but I'm looking for intelligent conversation about the universe and it looks like I came to the right place.
Tarmel Udimo: you sure did:)
Bertram Jacobus: i would agree roger ... so feel very welcome (!) ... :-)
Tarmel Udimo: pls have a seat
Tarmel Udimo: oh I do need to let you know that we record our conversations and put up on the wiki
Tarmel Udimo: is this ok
Roger Ormenthal: Yes, thanks.
Tarmel Udimo: great!
Bertram Jacobus: how did you find us roger ? if i may ask ...
Roger Ormenthal: It began with a place search on keyword science.

--BELL-- We launched into what we all think life actually is and how it started

Tarmel Udimo: we have been talking about the idea that life is : really as a game ... to play ... more free ...
Bertram Jacobus: ah. great. yes, we have really impressioning scientists in our group, at least for me, professors for astrophysics and such ... sometimes it´s nearly to impressive for me (!) *shy laugher* ... ;-)
Tarmel Udimo: and me
Bertram Jacobus: :-)
Tarmel Udimo: all very smart people
Bertram Jacobus: ty. so i´m not alone :-)
Tarmel Udimo: who understand the big bang and why the universe is as it is
Bertram Jacobus: yes. they are all really nice. i think, the philosophy of this group is responsible for the very nice athmosphere ...
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Roger Ormenthal: My background is heavy science, but also spiritually eclectic. The truth can be approached from many directions.
Tarmel Udimo: we also choose topics to discuss so if you would like to raise a topic pls do so
Calvino Rabeni: That could be a definition of this group
Bertram Jacobus: and my impression of big bang is, that it was only one of unlimited numbers (og big bangs)
Bertram Jacobus: of*
Tarmel Udimo: yes there is a thought that there are parallell universes
Bertram Jacobus: roger - that is nearly a perfect describing of the groups spirit what you write there (!) ... ;-)
Roger Ormenthal: "Big Bangs" may be local, that is, as big as they may be (perhaps about 13 billion light years today) each may be like a bubble in a vast foam of bubbles.
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Tarmel Udimo: but of course this still does not tell us what came before these bubbles:)
Roger Ormenthal: Endless cycles, I feel.
Tarmel Udimo: a black hole that devoured the manifested universe and spat it out again?
Bertram Jacobus: whether parallel or not, also being aside and in a kind of timeline tarmel - my impression is simply that we live in a unbounded surrounding - it´s the only logical conception i can have -
Bertram Jacobus: may be i can learn more, for sure. and get new, other aspects to know
Calvino Rabeni: Unbounded but finite, they say
Calvino Rabeni: Something new on the theory scene lately, the hologram model
Calvino Rabeni: have you heard of it?
Tarmel Udimo: I don't beleive this is a new theory:)
Calvino Rabeni: pretty new as a credible physics theory, I think
Tarmel Udimo: my understanding is that each part of the hologram is a reflection of the whole?
Bertram Jacobus: that´s too abstract to me cal. (and i´m often too abstract for others!) - so i don´t understand that. do you ? ;-) ("unbounded, but finite")
Calvino Rabeni: they are looking for ways to measure it
Tarmel Udimo: this unboundness?
Calvino Rabeni: unbounded but finite means - like a circle - where is the end of the line - it doesn't have one
Calvino Rabeni: but it is not of infinite size
Tarmel Udimo: ie continously growing?
Bertram Jacobus: okay. but in- and outside of the circle are "things" too - my impression from what i know. so i would guess more unbounded and infinite
Calvino Rabeni: they say, growing faster and faster
Roger Ormenthal: Just as with the false outdated concept of geocentricity, I feel the big bang theory - requiring a center, may be just another expression of ego centered reality. There may not have been a center. Rather, vast regions of space-time may have experienced a sudden simultaneous expression of matter ,by way of some higher dimensional impulse or wave causing the continual expression and disolving of virtual particles from the vacuum state, to become "real" particles.
Bertram Jacobus: may be sounds less phantastic ;-9
Tarmel Udimo: wow
Bertram Jacobus: no. growing and descending again, endless. again : my impression
Tarmel Udimo: that's a nice explanantion:)
Tarmel Udimo: and the space-time was unmanifest?
Calvino Rabeni: black holes are a concept that may likely be inaccurate - and if so, so is the big bang idea that things started with a singularity
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Calvino Rabeni: it could have been a quantum lump - not sure what that's called - not a point
Calvino Rabeni: so the density wouldn't be ever infinite, just very high
Tarmel Udimo: yes no matter how we look at it our minds can't seem to take in a universe that can exist with out a starting point -even a higher impulse implies this
Bertram Jacobus: singularity in a litterally way seems also to be only theoretically to me, not real on the material stage - more a perspective
Roger Ormenthal: Big bang theory suggests that space-time itself is created in the initial expansion, and did not exist beforehand. I have trouble with that idea. I don't think that even "unmanifested space" is ever "nothing" but rather is always pure being, pure consciousness, pure existence, in an unmanifest form.
Calvino Rabeni: singularity is a geometric idea probably not actully possible with space/time
Bertram Jacobus: exactly my view again cal :-)
Calvino Rabeni: it is just "math"

--BELL-- This continued until the final bell when we decided to visit Pandora

Roger Ormenthal: Re singularity, like a singularity at the center of a black hole, is probably a simplification for what we don't understand. Something like an atom was once regarded as a point, but now we know it contains contains a complex hierarchy of structures, like a miniature solar system. "As above, so below".
Calvino Rabeni: right
Bertram Jacobus: [all 15 minutes here is practised 90 seconds of silence, mostly at least] ... ;-)
Tarmel Udimo: so it comes down to for life to manifest
Tarmel Udimo: it must descend into a heavier form
Bertram Jacobus: whaow ! and i missed the ty bell ! ... ;-)
Tarmel Udimo: that it can't be a unified, singular form
Tarmel Udimo: or force or energy
Roger Ormenthal: Life become sufficiently complex, begins to be able to become conscious - of consciousness. It's a way for the unmanifest consciousness of the universe, to become conscious of itself. (Not my original idea.)
Tarmel Udimo: agree
Bertram Jacobus: i sometimes ask whether conciousness may not be everywhere and we only don´t see yet. a kind of quality of being in general
Calvino Rabeni: Re hologram - here is the link
Calvino Rabeni: http://www.newscientist.com/article/...-hologram.html
Roger Ormenthal: I would hope, that if there are "big bang" cycles, that a distillation of the knowledge gained and the life formed, is not lost, but that rather somehow the essence of what was accomplished is retained for the next xyxle, or in a hiogher dimension, as part of a never-ending expansion of consciousness and intelligence.
Calvino Rabeni: I'm curious who thought of this "matter becoming conscious of itself" idea early on?
Calvino Rabeni: I have a friend who wrote about it 60 years ago
Roger Ormenthal: xyxle --> cycle
Tarmel Udimo: tks for the hologram link Cal
Tarmel Udimo: yes I would be curious to know this too
Roger Ormenthal: I'm certain that our mrmories are stored other-dimensionally in holographic form, and not within neural synapses.
Roger Ormenthal: memories
Tarmel Udimo: they are somehow stored in the body that's for sure
Tarmel Udimo: or at least their portals are
Roger Ormenthal: This is related to the "thought-form" concept that many sensitives are able to perceive.
Calvino Rabeni: For history of ideas interest, here's an early book about matter becoming conscious through humans
Calvino Rabeni: http://www.archive.org/details/evolutionhumande00kohl
Roger Ormenthal: The physical body, brain, etc., might mostly be a dimensional interface so that our true, higher-dimensional embodiements may interface to this dimension. The body may be as if a "vehicle" that we "drive" while playing/learning here.
Roger Ormenthal: Thanks fo link.
Calvino Rabeni: How can you be certain about that idea of memory?
Roger Ormenthal: Holographic?
Bertram Jacobus: so - if somebody wants to take a look at pandora after the next bell i coult tp him to there ... (we talked about it a bit before you were here roger) ... ;-)
Bertram Jacobus: could*
--BELL--
Tarmel Udimo: well i would like to see it:)
Yakuzza Lethecus: i am out for now
Tarmel Udimo: and ai agree the body and mind are portals to (higher) dimensions
Yakuzza Lethecus: thx for the offer bert
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye everyone
Tarmel Udimo: bye yak
Roger Ormenthal: Was that directed to me Calvino, re holographic memory?
Calvino Rabeni: :)
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, about it being non-neural
Tarmel Udimo: tks Betram
Bertram Jacobus: yvw tarmel ! :-)
Tarmel Udimo: opps still didn't get it right
Tarmel Udimo: Bertram
Bertram Jacobus: so i hope, you don´t mind, if i leave now - towards pandora - was really nice to meet you roger - hope to see you again ! have already a notecard ? the group is here four times aevery day (!) ... :-)
Roger Ormenthal: I feel certain subjectively. I can not prove it objectively, or scientifically. It is my best current personal subject to reevaluation, understanding. I find that when I try to remember something, I use holographic-like principles of illuminating fragments of the hologram with a "the laser of attention". I know that is very poetic and not scientific. I also accept however, the validity of out-of-body and near death experiences, and the related concept that we have a hierarchy of other-dimensional embodiments that make us up, which we take with us when we leave this level behind in death, and that we retain all of our memories, personality, wisdom, etc. I think neurons are more like a body control system, and are perhaps involved in short-term memory formation and storage, similar to cache RAM memory in a computer, as contrasted with hard drive memory, for a crude analogy.
Bertram Jacobus: sure. all fine :-9
Tarmel Udimo: ok
Roger Ormenthal: Thx C for notecard.
Tarmel Udimo: ok well its been a great discussion tonight
Calvino Rabeni: thanks - it does seem poetic
Roger Ormenthal: Poems may contain scientific reality. I'm trying to compress a lifetime of experiences into a paragraph. I can discuss it more scientifically if desired.
Roger Ormenthal: By Tarmel, thanks.