2010.02.22 19:00 - Transitions and vowels

 

The Guardian for this meeting was Eos Amaterasu. The comments are by Eos Amaterasu.

 

Bleu Oleander: hi Eos

Eos Amaterasu: Hi Bleu

--BELL--

Eos Amaterasu: How are you tonight?

Bleu Oleander: great thanks, you?

Eos Amaterasu: Pretty good....

Bleu Oleander: I don't usually come to the evening sessions .... rare to have a night off

Eos Amaterasu: Hmm. My regular shift is tomorrow night, just Playing as GoC here tonight :-)

Eos Amaterasu: Look who dropped in

Eos Amaterasu: Hi Stevenaia

Bleu Oleander: hi steve

stevenaia Michinaga: hello

Transitions

Eos Amaterasu: Does Play as Being pop up in your day to day life, Bleu?

Bleu Oleander: so you mean the 90 sec practice?

Eos Amaterasu: or something like that

Bleu Oleander: yes it does

Bleu Oleander: I find myself taking more conscious breaks from what I'm doing

Eos Amaterasu: Hi Cal

stevenaia Michinaga: hi cal, I'll brbr

Calvino Rabeni: Hello everyone

Bleu Oleander: hi cal

Eos Amaterasu: How do you arrange them, so to speak (conscious breaks)?

Bleu Oleander: they just come to mind more often

Bleu Oleander: more random

Bleu Oleander: how does PaB fit in your day?

Eos Amaterasu: It, or the whatever it is sometimes knowns as PaB, comes up sometimes consciously/deliberately, but more often through happenstance, especially transitions

Eos Amaterasu: transitions are a break anyway

Eos Amaterasu: & all you need to do is to fall into them :-)

Eos Amaterasu: Moving the dish from the sink to the rack

Bleu Oleander: could you say a little more about transitions ...

Eos Amaterasu: one thing has ended and the next thing hasn't quite begun

Eos Amaterasu: awareness shifts, from one thing to another

Eos Amaterasu: there's a pause, and ....

Bleu Oleander: so by "fall into them" what do you mean?

Eos Amaterasu: "Mind the Gap", as the London underground says

Eos Amaterasu: By falling into them, I mean no need to try to scramble out

Eos Amaterasu: find another channel

stevenaia Michinaga: back

Eos Amaterasu: something always does come up - that's phenomenality

Calvino Rabeni: Transitions are like (analogy) changing the dvd in your player - showing a different movie - and the movie is "here is calvino washing dishes" - "here is calvino going to the bedroom" - etc

Eos Amaterasu: but you dont' have to scramble to make it happen

Calvino Rabeni: When in between movies, there is somewhat of an "open space"

Calvino Rabeni: in that the "calvino doing X" is not so strong

Calvino Rabeni: so transitions are a natural time to become more aware of the calvino, rather than the "doing X" part

Calvino Rabeni: This is like, Pema's analogy of the film projector

Calvino Rabeni: during the transitions it's easier to see the screen

stevenaia Michinaga: I used to do the same when I would concentrate for periods of time at work... I take a breath, I called it like a sigh... a pause

 

--BELL--

 

stevenaia Michinaga: it was then when I would knew then it was time to "back up" my file I was working on and renew my effort, sometime from a new direction... then I found PaB :)

Calvino Rabeni: Another natural kind of transition is based on the habits people have of managing their energy - like getting tense, for instance, people have coping habits to deal with it. These can be conected with doing a mindful pause - that is like I'm sure you've heard - if tense, pause, take a deep breath

Bleu Oleander: yes

Calvino Rabeni: Instead of e.g. reach for a cigarette or whatever people used to do :)

stevenaia Michinaga: so few do such a simple thing as breathing

stevenaia Michinaga: or... pet the kitty

Calvino Rabeni: It used to be for me - riding in the car, get tense, I'd often find myself reaching to turn on the radio to distract myself

stevenaia Michinaga: not sure if I relax the kitty or the kitty relaxes me

Bleu Oleander: I have two dogs that keep me focused and in the present

Calvino Rabeni: Caught myself enough at that, to hook it up to relaxing and feeling myself instead

Eos Amaterasu: Transitions can also be sudden and shocking

stevenaia Michinaga: shocking?

Calvino Rabeni: True

Eos Amaterasu: sudden loud sound, and whatever you were thinking of has disappeared

Eos Amaterasu: you're just there, open

Eos Amaterasu: aware

Eos Amaterasu: don't know what there is to be aware of

Calvino Rabeni: Or even a subtle shock, like getting up from meditation too quickly

Calvino Rabeni: That "forgetting" upon a transition - is a limited form of amnesia

Calvino Rabeni: whatever was there before is still probably in the memory, like a dream that has been forgotten

Calvino Rabeni: but still there in that it can be retrieved later

Eos Amaterasu: at that moment you can feel very alive

Eos Amaterasu: even though there's no handholds

Calvino Rabeni: AFAIK, the brain remembers all the dreams one has had

Eos Amaterasu: your senses are perked

Eos Amaterasu: your whiskers are quivering

Calvino Rabeni: In some cases that happens, in others, one just forgets and then finds oneself in a new situation

Eos Amaterasu: In a big shock the state of mind can change for a noticeable time

Eos Amaterasu: like 9/11

Calvino Rabeni: Calvino Rabeni thinks of firecrackers at a buddhist ritual

Eos Amaterasu: but soon conceptual and discursive mind rushes in

Calvino Rabeni: It rushes in within a split second, typically, not even noticed

Eos Amaterasu: yes

Eos Amaterasu: So what we do here is create it semi-artificially (ding!)

Calvino Rabeni: As soon as it appears - "I know what that is" - the concept is already present, then starts the discursive internal dialogue

stevenaia Michinaga: even slip seconds can last a long time

Calvino Rabeni: Hmmm, it would be handy to have a bell we could ring here

Eos Amaterasu: It's harder to create that ding (ding sans sich :-) at work or while engrossed in activity

Calvino Rabeni: Yes it is, but how does that work?

Eos Amaterasu: How do you do it, Bleu?

Bleu Oleander: create a "ding"?

Eos Amaterasu: so to speak

Bleu Oleander: I don't know ... something catches my attention

 

--BELL--

 

Calvino Rabeni: When the bell rang, I was in the middle of typing, and didn't want to let go of that to let the "ding" into me.

Calvino Rabeni: So I didn't get the full benefit of it

Eos Amaterasu: dang!

Calvino Rabeni: Is it possible to remember the feeling of a surprise, and recreate its effect?

Eos Amaterasu: problem is the memory of it

Eos Amaterasu: subtle catch-22's there

Calvino Rabeni: Maybe

Calvino Rabeni: For instance it's ahrd to tickle oneself

Calvino Rabeni: *hard

Calvino Rabeni: doesn't work so well :)

Calvino Rabeni: Or to tell oneself a joke :)

Calvino Rabeni: But Eos, I'm not so sure it is the memory that creates the block

Calvino Rabeni: If you could replay the felt sense, it could have power

Eos Amaterasu: the memory creates the reminder

Calvino Rabeni: I think, the attachment is the idea that it is going to happen

Calvino Rabeni: which creates the inability to let it be fully experienced

Calvino Rabeni: because one habitually guards against new experiences

Eos Amaterasu: yes

Eos Amaterasu: so periodically everything collapses, is a total failure, we can't do it any more

Eos Amaterasu: and then the bird sings

Calvino Rabeni: That is one way to have a vacation

Eos Amaterasu: another way is to shift foreground / background, or experience that happening

Eos Amaterasu: it's not that gaps happen in the continuity of things happening

Calvino Rabeni: can you give an example?

Eos Amaterasu: it's that things happen in and emerge from and never leave the gap

Eos Amaterasu: the trick about experiencing little gaps is that sometimes you experience

Eos Amaterasu: things arising in and from the gap

Eos Amaterasu: they still have some of that quality, maybe humor, "space"

Eos Amaterasu: freshness

Calvino Rabeni: ah

Eos Amaterasu: copernican revolution

Eos Amaterasu: "ah" is its seed syllable :-)

Calvino Rabeni: How is that?

Eos Amaterasu: when you're surprised you say , ah!

Eos Amaterasu: or when you discover something or "get it", you say "ah"

Calvino Rabeni: It seems to express freshness

Calvino Rabeni: and "oh" implies more insight than freshness

Calvino Rabeni: How about the "eee" sound in "being"? isn't that one interesting?

Calvino Rabeni: or "seeing"

Calvino Rabeni: Was there more to the "missing vowels" in hebrew language, than just efficiency of writing?

 

--BELL--

 

stevenaia Michinaga: seems they are a learning tool that becomes unnecessary with time

Eos Amaterasu: they = ?

stevenaia Michinaga: the missing vowels

Eos Amaterasu: I tend to think of them as breath, spirit, what gets contributed by the living human

Calvino Rabeni: I think, more than a learning tool

Eos Amaterasu: vs the parentheses, brackets, solid posts, which syllables tend to be

Calvino Rabeni: And eos' notion of the spirit is interesting, I agree, but was going to call it the divine spirit, not the one contributed by humans

Calvino Rabeni: but the same, actually

Calvino Rabeni: the consonants are the structure and limits and form; the vowels are the spirit

Calvino Rabeni: and the energy

Eos Amaterasu: Ah!

stevenaia Michinaga: the vowels disappear in more sacred texts (torah scrolls) but the musical notations are written in

Eos Amaterasu: someone observed that song is slowed down speech

Calvino Rabeni: Have you noticed that the "name" of god is ALL vowels, and includes all of them twice?

Calvino Rabeni: Yes, true Eos

Calvino Rabeni: not only twice, but in a pattern of moving energy down and then up again

Calvino Rabeni: It seems like a fascinating principle expressed phonetically

Calvino Rabeni: I can

Calvino Rabeni: NM

Eos Amaterasu: ¿

Calvino Rabeni: :)

Calvino Rabeni: Upside down question

Calvino Rabeni: more like a V shape

Calvino Rabeni: it reached down from heaven to touch the earth, and then returned

Calvino Rabeni: (too mystical perhaps, but do you know what I mean?)

Bleu Oleander: good nite all

stevenaia Michinaga: night blue

Calvino Rabeni: Niet, Bleu?

Eos Amaterasu: 'night Bleu

stevenaia Michinaga: mystical meanings?

Calvino Rabeni: Yes, the sequence of vowel sounds in the name of god, having an intrinsic meaning (not a symbolic one)

stevenaia Michinaga: I never gave it much thought in detail

Eos Amaterasu: I thought there were just 4 letters in Hebrew word for G*d

Calvino Rabeni: Many ancient languages contained non-symbolic significance

stevenaia Michinaga: but I knew it was there

Calvino Rabeni: the 4 letters were consonants, yes?

stevenaia Michinaga: it is always abbrviated, eos

Eos Amaterasu: yes

stevenaia Michinaga: never written

Calvino Rabeni: But the fully pronounced word is like, all vowel sounds

stevenaia Michinaga: no, not in hebrew

Calvino Rabeni: it is considered a mistake - to write it down or speak it in wrong circumstances

Calvino Rabeni: because it is a form of idolatry or something like that

stevenaia Michinaga: the sound of the word include vowel sounds

stevenaia Michinaga: I can't speak for the sanctitiy of there reasons behind that

Calvino Rabeni: where the concern is the representation being mistaken for or distracting from the direct experience

Calvino Rabeni: Just how people often resist overdefining their concepts

stevenaia Michinaga: jsut that it is a word that if written can them be destroyed, torn, etc

Calvino Rabeni: because they then feel boxed-in by the definitions

Calvino Rabeni: and it becomes harder to think outside that box or structure

stevenaia Michinaga: I see it more a sign of respect

Calvino Rabeni: Right it also becomes too physical, in a way vulnerable

Calvino Rabeni: But signs of respect are collapsed metaphors for something realer

stevenaia Michinaga: nods

 

--BELL--

 

stevenaia Michinaga: I was nodding to the previous line, what is a "collapsed metaphors"

Eos Amaterasu: consonants without vowels

Calvino Rabeni: Metaphors or symbols have a living quality - they have unclear boundaries and refer both to something within oneself and something outside in the world - creating a bridge

Calvino Rabeni: They collaps to signs - mere tokens or figures

stevenaia Michinaga: a word for the name of god (the metaphor) the abbrevition of the name, a collapsed metaphors

Calvino Rabeni: Yes

Calvino Rabeni: The word spoken has power, it invokes god

Calvino Rabeni: the collapesed written word, is just a mark on paper

stevenaia Michinaga: nods

Calvino Rabeni: Leaving out the vowels is an example of that distinction

stevenaia Michinaga: hello Mor

Moron Scientist: hi

Moron Scientist: Why did you cut my name short?

stevenaia Michinaga: :)

stevenaia Michinaga: I'm a bad typist

Calvino Rabeni: To be informal?

Calvino Rabeni: Or not to say "moron" which is disrespectful in english

Calvino Rabeni: We often use 3-letter nicknames here

Calvino Rabeni: I am "cal"

Moron Scientist: If I chose it, then I must not see it as disrespectful, eh?

stevenaia Michinaga: have you been here before Moron? we record our conversatios and post them to the groups WIki, is it ok to include your comments?

Moron Scientist: ok I guess

stevenaia Michinaga: thank you

Eos Amaterasu: I can give you a notecard describing what we do

Eos Amaterasu: or not

stevenaia Michinaga: :)

Calvino Rabeni: Funny

stevenaia Michinaga: nice name in any case

Eos Amaterasu: Moron! :-)

stevenaia Michinaga: Moron Scientist

stevenaia Michinaga: Moron Scientist

Calvino Rabeni: It's like - whoa, too much to think about, this is getting serious

Calvino Rabeni: I can relate to that

Calvino Rabeni: but the politeness compulsion is strong

stevenaia Michinaga: yes, alot there in those two words

Eos Amaterasu: What vowels run throught them....

Eos Amaterasu: Well gentlemen, I will be off to bed....

Eos Amaterasu: nothing but zzzzzz's

stevenaia Michinaga: yes, I should be going too

stevenaia Michinaga: night cal

Calvino Rabeni: :)

stevenaia Michinaga: Eos

Calvino Rabeni: I will take my vowels and go home :)

Eos Amaterasu: Good night, Cal and steven

Eos Amaterasu: :-)

stevenaia Michinaga: lol

Calvino Rabeni: Good night all :)