2010.04.02 13:00 - Attachement

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Liza Deischer. The comments are by Liza Deischer. For all who wonders about the new viewer and has questions about which one you can use best, let's start with lost clothes and hairpieces.


    Liza Deischer: hi QT
    Qt Core: hi Liza
    Qt Core: don't know (i may see to be slow.... just started my fight with the new viewer ;-)
    Liza Deischer: :-)
    Liza Deischer: hi Bleu
    Bleu Oleander: hi!
    Liza Deischer: well, I crashed a few times today, with Emerald and the new viewer
    Liza Deischer: I hink Eden has spread a virus :-)
    Qt Core: the first lovely thing the new viewer made my party outfit disappear, have to check if i still have the t-shirt
    Liza Deischer: yes, it happens
    Liza Deischer: but it is should be still there
    Qt Core: and making me going back to some week for my outfit!
    Liza Deischer: I lost a shoe and my hair when I came in with the new viewer
    Liza Deischer: yes, see what you mean (looking at QT's old outfit)
    Liza Deischer: but it should be still in your invent
    Liza Deischer: all my stuff was too, just got undressed by using the new viewer :-)
    Liza Deischer: and if I change clothing in emerald, the same thing happens,again when I go back to the new viewer
    Qt Core: still present, found it
    Liza Deischer: should be
    Liza Deischer: ah partyman is back
    Qt Core: ok, may have do save it as pabrty ;-)
    Liza Deischer: :-)
    Liza Deischer: I like the collar in the shirt
    Bleu Oleander: thanks!
    Qt Core: i like it too, even if in the beginning i thought it was an inverted tan line ;-)
    Bleu Oleander: ha!
    Liza Deischer: :-)
    Qt Core: i'm going to make a lot of errors with only one window for moving the camera and its orientation
    Liza Deischer: yes, I don't think that is an improvement
    Liza Deischer: you need to switch all the time
    Bleu Oleander: I don't see the need to switch to the new viewer
    Liza Deischer: If you don't use the linking, there isn't any
    Bleu Oleander: what's the linking?
    Qt Core: until the next release of it when the old one will stop working
    Liza Deischer: in the new viewer about everything is a link
    Bleu Oleander: oh
    Liza Deischer: groups in profiles are for instance
    Liza Deischer: so you have easy access to information
    Liza Deischer: besides that
    Qt Core: or the new media capability of tattoo layers over the skin
    Liza Deischer: linking in sl becomes much easier
    Liza Deischer: because every side of a prim can be used for that purpose
    Liza Deischer: but at the same time, emerald has still more features
    Liza Deischer: so I'm going back and fourth, just to find out what I like best
    Liza Deischer: but also getting pretty confused, because it works differently
    Qt Core: the input text area has a awfully small font almost can't edit it and catch errors before sending it
    Liza Deischer: true, and there is only one
    Bleu Oleander: i just started using emerald ... so going to try it and see
    Liza Deischer: the pictures aren't very well either
    Qt Core: yes, that is the thing i'm hating most, the changes in local chat
    Liza Deischer: and those small pictures seeing everywhere is nice for people much younger then I am :-)
    Liza Deischer: hi Wol
    Wol Euler: hello liza, bleu, qt
    Bleu Oleander: hey Wol
    Qt Core: hi wol
    Liza Deischer: emerald is a good viewer
    Liza Deischer: and gives you the benefit to eject people
    Liza Deischer: needed to do that not so long ago, but didn't use the right viewer :-)
    Qt Core: never tried it as most told me that most of the nice features are for builder/scripters
    Liza Deischer: how was your free day Wol?
    Wol Euler: great :)
    Wol Euler: spent it all in SL
    Liza Deischer: :-)
    Wol Euler: quite excellent
    Liza Deischer: needing some catching up to do :-)
    Wol Euler: I fixed up the poseballs at my dance hall, they now rez wherever you are "on demand" rather than cluttering up the floor
    Wol Euler: a minor geeky triumph
    Liza Deischer: :-)
    Qt Core: ;-)
    Liza Deischer: but those triumphs are very nice
    Wol Euler grins.
    Qt Core: muggles would never got those ;-)
    Wol Euler: heheheheh
    Liza Deischer: muggles ?
    Qt Core: the non magical people in Harry Potter universe
    Qt Core: sometimes programmers like to think themselves as wizard ;-)
    Wol Euler: did a lot of talking too, everyone is interested in Emerald now that they see how simplistic the new viewer is
    Liza Deischer: its still the standard, not much new things
    Wol Euler: exactly, but with an inflated interface.,
    Wol Euler: fewer buttons and fewer features, but the UI is nonetheless larger!
    Qt Core: and a lower "real viewer area" it seems
    Qt Core: ;-) wol
    Liza Deischer: well I like the links
    Liza Deischer: but I agree that that is the only improvement
    Qt Core: i find interesting that i could not kill the Talk button as i can do with the gesture/movement icone
    Liza Deischer: and less features, I don't know, but they are sometimes hard to find
    Already having spent more that half an hour on the viewer, QT asks for a topic and Bleu is giving us one, and an interesting one: how do our actions in sl relate to rl
    Qt Core: stopping whining about SL, has someone a topic ?
    Wol Euler: heheheheh
    Liza Deischer: :-) I thought that was the topic
    Bleu Oleander: how about "how do you apply PaB to RL"
    Liza Deischer: can you say more bleu?
    Bleu Oleander: the concepts we put into practice here and perhaps during the day in rl .... how does it dovetail for you?
    Bleu Oleander: are they separate?
    Bleu Oleander: inform each other?
    Bleu Oleander: mesh totally?
    Liza Deischer: to me they are two separate worlds,
    Liza Deischer: but they do influence each other
    Liza Deischer: sl to me is more experimental
    Liza Deischer: sometimes it feels I can separate parts of myself
    Liza Deischer: looking more closely at them
    Wol Euler nods
    Liza Deischer: seeing that more is going around then I imagined
    Liza Deischer: because I can experiment with body, clothing, gender, the things I do, the way I act
    Wol Euler smiles and nods
    Wol Euler: exactly
    Wol Euler: there is an overlap, a feedback, between RL and SL for the various Me's
    Wol Euler: they influence each other
    Bleu Oleander: yes!
    Liza Deischer: yes, and it has already clarified a lot to me
    Qt Core: one of the little things i notice more now in rl, but i was starting in the months before i found pab is the new things i see everyday in the streets i drives trhough ... since '93 to go to work
    Bleu Oleander: helps to experiment in sl to realize you can in rl also, maybe in diff ways, but you can
    Liza Deischer: well, there is one problem to that
    Qt Core: i should have memorized them by now ;-)
    Liza Deischer: how much time do you spent in sl :-)
    Liza Deischer: but it certainly is possible in my vies
    Liza Deischer: view
    Liza Deischer: (vies means dirty in Dutch :-))
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    Liza Deischer: and for my 'practice' it is, but also making the process slower (and more intensified: comment Liza)
    Liza Deischer: but everything I do here, is not separated from rl, it just can't be
    Wol Euler: yes
    Bleu Oleander: right
    Wol Euler: this is just as real as RL
    Liza Deischer: brb
    Wol Euler: the friendships, the emotion, the changes.
    Wol Euler: it's about people, not pixels.
    Bleu Oleander: yes, all valid real experiences
    Bleu Oleander: can be about pixels, but more interesting when it's about people
    Wol Euler: yes, sure, it is entirely possible to "play" SL as a shallow video game
    Wol Euler: (philosophically shallow)
    Bleu Oleander: or just build
    Wol Euler: :)=
    Liza Deischer: if sl and rl get separated, then you start to live in a dreamworld
    Liza Deischer: but if they influence each other, sl can be a great tool
    I introduce Darren to the discussion, my male-alt. QT would like to make one, but is struggling with the name
    Liza Deischer: btw, if you wonder where Darren was coming from last night
    Liza Deischer: he's my alt
    Wol Euler: :)
    Liza Deischer: and that guy learned me a lot :-)
    Wol Euler: we should have an alts-only theme session :)
    Qt Core: ;-) (still trying to get a decent name until i loose interest in making an alt ;-)
    Liza Deischer: :-)
    Bleu Oleander: oh fun!
    Liza Deischer: you just make one and a decent name will come up
    Liza Deischer: that is at least the way it works for me
    Wol Euler: just keep hitting "refresh"
    Liza Deischer: yes
    Liza Deischer: until you get tired :-)
    Qt Core: yes, hoping it isn't just already taken but not pin the list
    Liza Deischer: you'll find out very soon
    Liza Deischer: did you hesitate that much with this avi QT?
    Qt Core: no, had the Core last name almost immediately and loved the pairing
    Liza Deischer: so what makes you hesitate now?
    Liza Deischer: You know you get used to the name, as you get used to your own given by birth
    Qt Core: as i got an idea i thought was nice and would like to have a specific last name
    Liza Deischer: ah
    Qt Core: but peobably with so many user it is already taken
    Liza Deischer: well, I guess there are some things in life you just need to accept :-)

    We are closing in on the concept of alts, even on sl the most extreme way to experiences different aspects in yourself, especially when there is a change of gender. Here the discussion slowly starts to show a subtle but a big difference in the way alts are used and perceived. It starts with a good question from Bleu

    Bleu Oleander: are there Alt concepts in rl?
    Wol Euler: In a way I think there are, Bleu, in special contexts
    Bleu Oleander: i think so too
    Qt Core: yes, the work related one, the fun-related one and the family one i think
    Wol Euler: people might have certain nicknames that are only used by the group of friends that they bowl with every thursday since 8 years, for example
    Wol Euler: that would become a specific name and set of behaviors too
    Bleu Oleander: so can change name, look, behaviors in rl too
    Wol Euler: well, bodily changes are harder and slower :)
    Wol Euler: and more expensive
    Liza Deischer: hahah
    Bleu Oleander: the money is big diff
    Qt Core: thinking about young people in nice suits during the day and in rags in the night in discos
    Bleu Oleander: but lots of ways to disguise your look in rl
    Bleu Oleander: makeup, hair, clothes can create an alt
    Wol Euler nods
    Liza Deischer: yes, or environment
    Bleu Oleander: I think money and ease of doing are the only diffs
    Liza Deischer: hmm, I disagree
    Liza Deischer: there is more to it
    Liza Deischer: you can't switch that easily form one body outlook to another
    Liza Deischer: you can change clothing and all of that
    Bleu Oleander: why not?
    Liza Deischer: but changing gender for example is more hard
    Bleu Oleander: gender is hard but not impossible
    Bleu Oleander: "tootsie"
    Wol Euler: but pretty final, compared to that checkbox in SL
    Liza Deischer: true, to a certain extend
    Liza Deischer: well, you can do a lot with clothing and appearances
    Bleu Oleander: but you really haven't changed gender .... same brain
    Liza Deischer: but in the end it is not the same
    Liza Deischer: no not true
    Liza Deischer: changing gender is really an amazing thing
    Bleu Oleander: even if your alt is op gender .... it's still your brain
    Liza Deischer: it isn't all about you're brains
    Bleu Oleander: how so?
    Wol Euler: hmmmm. You're right, but I disagree :)
    Liza Deischer: I physically feel different when I'm Darren
    Bleu Oleander: ha!
    Wol Euler: wol is definitely different to Udge, their conversational styles are entirely different
    Wol Euler: her friends list is 3x as long as his
    Liza Deischer: there is a change in flow, in energy
    Bleu Oleander: ok, I physically feel diff at a costume party too
    Bleu Oleander: if I go as op gender
    Wol Euler: these are not things that I try to do, they just happen (wu wei again)
    Liza Deischer: but everybody knows who you are
    Bleu Oleander: but it's all coming from you
    Liza Deischer: my 'Darren' comes into places where liza doesn't
    Wol Euler: but which "me"?
    Bleu Oleander: you are the core of both
    Bleu Oleander: it's all you
    Liza Deischer: yes it is
    Bleu Oleander: you may act diff
    Liza Deischer: you are right bleu
    Bleu Oleander: but still you
    Wol Euler: it is a different bit of me, a part that is usually not expressed
    Wol Euler: in Maxine's phrase, a minority personality
    Bleu Oleander: ok, but still you
    Liza Deischer: but it is like some things don't come up that easily
    Liza Deischer: and come up more easily in a different body
    Bleu Oleander: the environment brings out diff personalities
    Bleu Oleander: and so does the way you present yourself
    Liza Deischer: and that can be to such an extend that it surprises you completely
    Wol Euler nods.


    The discussion continued, but the log has been edited here for personal content.

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