2010.04.02 13:00 - Attachement

The Guardian for this meeting was Liza Deischer. The comments are by Liza Deischer. For all who wonders about the new viewer and has questions about which one you can use best, let's start with lost clothes and hairpieces.

 

Liza Deischer: hi QT
Qt Core: hi Liza
Qt Core: don't know (i may see to be slow.... just started my fight with the new viewer ;-)
Liza Deischer: :-)
Liza Deischer: hi Bleu
Bleu Oleander: hi!
Liza Deischer: well, I crashed a few times today, with Emerald and the new viewer
Liza Deischer: I hink Eden has spread a virus :-)
Qt Core: the first lovely thing the new viewer made my party outfit disappear, have to check if i still have the t-shirt
Liza Deischer: yes, it happens
Liza Deischer: but it is should be still there
--BELL--
Qt Core: and making me going back to some week for my outfit!
Liza Deischer: I lost a shoe and my hair when I came in with the new viewer
Liza Deischer: yes, see what you mean (looking at QT's old outfit)
Liza Deischer: but it should be still in your invent
Liza Deischer: all my stuff was too, just got undressed by using the new viewer :-)
Liza Deischer: and if I change clothing in emerald, the same thing happens,again when I go back to the new viewer
Qt Core: still present, found it
Liza Deischer: should be
Liza Deischer: ah partyman is back
Qt Core: ok, may have do save it as pabrty ;-)
Liza Deischer: :-)
Liza Deischer: I like the collar in the shirt
Bleu Oleander: thanks!
Qt Core: i like it too, even if in the beginning i thought it was an inverted tan line ;-)
Bleu Oleander: ha!
Liza Deischer: :-)
Qt Core: i'm going to make a lot of errors with only one window for moving the camera and its orientation
Liza Deischer: yes, I don't think that is an improvement
Liza Deischer: you need to switch all the time
Bleu Oleander: I don't see the need to switch to the new viewer
Liza Deischer: If you don't use the linking, there isn't any
Bleu Oleander: what's the linking?
Qt Core: until the next release of it when the old one will stop working
Liza Deischer: in the new viewer about everything is a link
Bleu Oleander: oh
Liza Deischer: groups in profiles are for instance
Liza Deischer: so you have easy access to information
Liza Deischer: besides that
Qt Core: or the new media capability of tattoo layers over the skin
Liza Deischer: linking in sl becomes much easier
Liza Deischer: because every side of a prim can be used for that purpose
Liza Deischer: but at the same time, emerald has still more features
Liza Deischer: so I'm going back and fourth, just to find out what I like best
Liza Deischer: but also getting pretty confused, because it works differently
Qt Core: the input text area has a awfully small font almost can't edit it and catch errors before sending it
Liza Deischer: true, and there is only one
Bleu Oleander: i just started using emerald ... so going to try it and see
Liza Deischer: the pictures aren't very well either
Qt Core: yes, that is the thing i'm hating most, the changes in local chat
Liza Deischer: and those small pictures seeing everywhere is nice for people much younger then I am :-)
Liza Deischer: hi Wol
Wol Euler: hello liza, bleu, qt
Bleu Oleander: hey Wol
Qt Core: hi wol
--BELL--
Liza Deischer: emerald is a good viewer
Liza Deischer: and gives you the benefit to eject people
Liza Deischer: needed to do that not so long ago, but didn't use the right viewer :-)
Qt Core: never tried it as most told me that most of the nice features are for builder/scripters
Liza Deischer: how was your free day Wol?
Wol Euler: great :)
Wol Euler: spent it all in SL
Liza Deischer: :-)
Wol Euler: quite excellent
Liza Deischer: needing some catching up to do :-)
Wol Euler: I fixed up the poseballs at my dance hall, they now rez wherever you are "on demand" rather than cluttering up the floor
Wol Euler: a minor geeky triumph
Liza Deischer: :-)
Qt Core: ;-)
Liza Deischer: but those triumphs are very nice
Wol Euler grins.
Qt Core: muggles would never got those ;-)
Wol Euler: heheheheh
Liza Deischer: muggles ?
Qt Core: the non magical people in Harry Potter universe
Qt Core: sometimes programmers like to think themselves as wizard ;-)
Wol Euler: did a lot of talking too, everyone is interested in Emerald now that they see how simplistic the new viewer is
Liza Deischer: its still the standard, not much new things
Wol Euler: exactly, but with an inflated interface.,
Wol Euler: fewer buttons and fewer features, but the UI is nonetheless larger!
Qt Core: and a lower "real viewer area" it seems
Qt Core: ;-) wol
Liza Deischer: well I like the links
Liza Deischer: but I agree that that is the only improvement
Qt Core: i find interesting that i could not kill the Talk button as i can do with the gesture/movement icone
Liza Deischer: and less features, I don't know, but they are sometimes hard to find
Already having spent more that half an hour on the viewer, QT asks for a topic and Bleu is giving us one, and an interesting one: how do our actions in sl relate to rl
Qt Core: stopping whining about SL, has someone a topic ?
Wol Euler: heheheheh
Liza Deischer: :-) I thought that was the topic
Bleu Oleander: how about "how do you apply PaB to RL"
Liza Deischer: can you say more bleu?
Bleu Oleander: the concepts we put into practice here and perhaps during the day in rl .... how does it dovetail for you?
Bleu Oleander: are they separate?
Bleu Oleander: inform each other?
Bleu Oleander: mesh totally?
--BELL--
Liza Deischer: to me they are two separate worlds,
Liza Deischer: but they do influence each other
Liza Deischer: sl to me is more experimental
Liza Deischer: sometimes it feels I can separate parts of myself
Liza Deischer: looking more closely at them
Wol Euler nods
Liza Deischer: seeing that more is going around then I imagined
Liza Deischer: because I can experiment with body, clothing, gender, the things I do, the way I act
Wol Euler smiles and nods
Wol Euler: exactly
Wol Euler: there is an overlap, a feedback, between RL and SL for the various Me's
Wol Euler: they influence each other
Bleu Oleander: yes!
Liza Deischer: yes, and it has already clarified a lot to me
Qt Core: one of the little things i notice more now in rl, but i was starting in the months before i found pab is the new things i see everyday in the streets i drives trhough ... since '93 to go to work
Bleu Oleander: helps to experiment in sl to realize you can in rl also, maybe in diff ways, but you can
Liza Deischer: well, there is one problem to that
Qt Core: i should have memorized them by now ;-)
Liza Deischer: how much time do you spent in sl :-)
Liza Deischer: but it certainly is possible in my vies
Liza Deischer: view
Liza Deischer: (vies means dirty in Dutch :-))
Bleu Oleander: :)
Liza Deischer: and for my 'practice' it is, but also making the process slower (and more intensified: comment Liza)
Liza Deischer: but everything I do here, is not separated from rl, it just can't be
Wol Euler: yes
Bleu Oleander: right
Wol Euler: this is just as real as RL
Liza Deischer: brb
Wol Euler: the friendships, the emotion, the changes.
Wol Euler: it's about people, not pixels.
Bleu Oleander: yes, all valid real experiences
Bleu Oleander: can be about pixels, but more interesting when it's about people
Wol Euler: yes, sure, it is entirely possible to "play" SL as a shallow video game
Wol Euler: (philosophically shallow)
Bleu Oleander: or just build
Wol Euler: :)=
Liza Deischer: if sl and rl get separated, then you start to live in a dreamworld
Liza Deischer: but if they influence each other, sl can be a great tool
I introduce Darren to the discussion, my male-alt. QT would like to make one, but is struggling with the name
Liza Deischer: btw, if you wonder where Darren was coming from last night
Liza Deischer: he's my alt
Wol Euler: :)
Liza Deischer: and that guy learned me a lot :-)
Wol Euler: we should have an alts-only theme session :)
Qt Core: ;-) (still trying to get a decent name until i loose interest in making an alt ;-)
Liza Deischer: :-)
Bleu Oleander: oh fun!
Liza Deischer: you just make one and a decent name will come up
Liza Deischer: that is at least the way it works for me
Wol Euler: just keep hitting "refresh"
Liza Deischer: yes
Liza Deischer: until you get tired :-)
Qt Core: yes, hoping it isn't just already taken but not pin the list
Liza Deischer: you'll find out very soon
--BELL--
Liza Deischer: did you hesitate that much with this avi QT?
Qt Core: no, had the Core last name almost immediately and loved the pairing
Liza Deischer: so what makes you hesitate now?
Liza Deischer: You know you get used to the name, as you get used to your own given by birth
Qt Core: as i got an idea i thought was nice and would like to have a specific last name
Liza Deischer: ah
Qt Core: but peobably with so many user it is already taken
Liza Deischer: well, I guess there are some things in life you just need to accept :-)

 
We are closing in on the concept of alts, even on sl the most extreme way to experiences different aspects in yourself, especially when there is a change of gender. Here the discussion slowly starts to show a subtle but a big difference in the way alts are used and perceived. It starts with a good question from Bleu

 
Bleu Oleander: are there Alt concepts in rl?
Wol Euler: In a way I think there are, Bleu, in special contexts
Bleu Oleander: i think so too
Qt Core: yes, the work related one, the fun-related one and the family one i think
Wol Euler: people might have certain nicknames that are only used by the group of friends that they bowl with every thursday since 8 years, for example
Wol Euler: that would become a specific name and set of behaviors too
Bleu Oleander: so can change name, look, behaviors in rl too
Wol Euler: well, bodily changes are harder and slower :)
Wol Euler: and more expensive
Liza Deischer: hahah
Bleu Oleander: the money is big diff
Qt Core: thinking about young people in nice suits during the day and in rags in the night in discos
Bleu Oleander: but lots of ways to disguise your look in rl
Bleu Oleander: makeup, hair, clothes can create an alt
Wol Euler nods
Liza Deischer: yes, or environment
Bleu Oleander: I think money and ease of doing are the only diffs
Liza Deischer: hmm, I disagree
Liza Deischer: there is more to it
Liza Deischer: you can't switch that easily form one body outlook to another
Liza Deischer: you can change clothing and all of that
Bleu Oleander: why not?
Liza Deischer: but changing gender for example is more hard
Bleu Oleander: gender is hard but not impossible
Bleu Oleander: "tootsie"
Wol Euler: but pretty final, compared to that checkbox in SL
Liza Deischer: true, to a certain extend
Liza Deischer: well, you can do a lot with clothing and appearances
Bleu Oleander: but you really haven't changed gender .... same brain
Liza Deischer: but in the end it is not the same
Liza Deischer: no not true
Liza Deischer: changing gender is really an amazing thing
Bleu Oleander: even if your alt is op gender .... it's still your brain
Liza Deischer: it isn't all about you're brains
Bleu Oleander: how so?
Wol Euler: hmmmm. You're right, but I disagree :)
Liza Deischer: I physically feel different when I'm Darren
Bleu Oleander: ha!
Wol Euler: wol is definitely different to Udge, their conversational styles are entirely different
Wol Euler: her friends list is 3x as long as his
Liza Deischer: there is a change in flow, in energy
Bleu Oleander: ok, I physically feel diff at a costume party too
Bleu Oleander: if I go as op gender
Wol Euler: these are not things that I try to do, they just happen (wu wei again)
Liza Deischer: but everybody knows who you are
Bleu Oleander: but it's all coming from you
Liza Deischer: my 'Darren' comes into places where liza doesn't
Wol Euler: but which "me"?
Bleu Oleander: you are the core of both
Bleu Oleander: it's all you
Liza Deischer: yes it is
Bleu Oleander: you may act diff
Liza Deischer: you are right bleu
Bleu Oleander: but still you
Wol Euler: it is a different bit of me, a part that is usually not expressed
Wol Euler: in Maxine's phrase, a minority personality
Bleu Oleander: ok, but still you
Liza Deischer: but it is like some things don't come up that easily
Liza Deischer: and come up more easily in a different body
Bleu Oleander: the environment brings out diff personalities
Bleu Oleander: and so does the way you present yourself
Liza Deischer: and that can be to such an extend that it surprises you completely
Wol Euler nods.

   

The discussion continued, but the log has been edited here for personal content.