2010.04.14 07:00 - Personal Space

The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal. The comments are by Eliza Madrigal, joined by SophiaSharon, Darren, Yakuzza, and Crusty. It was a 'strange but I thought interesting session. I've left room between lines so the reader might walk around comfortably. ;-)

SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Darren
Darren Islar: hi Sharon
Darren Islar: how are you today?
SophiaSharon Larnia: good, my last day of work was yesterday :) how are you?
Darren Islar: great to hear
Darren Islar: I'm fine thank you
Darren Islar: you have an open space now in front of you?
SophiaSharon Larnia: a bit, the 'emotional' space is opening :)
Darren Islar: yes, that's good
SophiaSharon Larnia: not yet, but i feel like being still, and thats good

--BELL--

Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Yakuzza, Hi Eliza
Darren Islar: hi Yakum Hi Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sharon, Darren, Ya :)
Eliza Madrigal: How is everyone?
Darren Islar: I'm fine thanks
Eliza Madrigal: Hello Crusty
SophiaSharon Larnia: good :) you Eliza
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey crusty
Darren Islar: hi Crusty
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Crusty
Darren Islar smiles at Yaku who's toes are hurt now
Crusty Goldshark: hi guys
Yakuzza Lethecus: lol, i wear security shoes :)
Darren Islar: darn
Eliza Madrigal: hahaha
Darren Islar: :-)

Eliza Madrigal: Hm, so do we have a topic so far?
Darren Islar: no, not yet
Crusty Goldshark: sorry about the invasive entrance
SophiaSharon Larnia: np Crusty :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: (easy for me to say that haha)
Crusty Goldshark: how about personal space
Darren Islar: (well since Yaku wear security shoes :-))
Eliza Madrigal noticing the strong breezes today, and wondering about 'winds of change'
Eliza Madrigal: How so, Crusty?
Eliza Madrigal: personal space is a great topic :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes it is
Crusty Goldshark: . . . or winds of change - I thought you were putting your hand up like in class . .
Eliza Madrigal: heheh
Eliza Madrigal: Not at all, just throwing things out :)

SophiaSharon Larnia: the term personal space points to something seperate from something else
SophiaSharon Larnia: this is mine and that is yours
Eliza Madrigal nods... and sense of that can vary so widely from person to person
SophiaSharon Larnia: just throwing out ideas here tho
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh yes

Crusty Goldshark: consider myself part borg and therefore part of the net-collective
Darren Islar: what does that mean to your personal space Crusty?
SophiaSharon Larnia: ive worked with people who would stand all in my face, and I knew it was just cultural lol
Eliza Madrigal: I need little space where my children are concerned for instance...
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, yes contextual too, sure
Darren Islar: I need a lot of personal space
SophiaSharon Larnia: me too
Darren Islar: paradoxaly to let others in

SophiaSharon Larnia: and time to be in it

Darren Islar: yes
Crusty Goldshark: Yakuzza put your hand down - if I may be so bold and invasive
SophiaSharon Larnia: its not up on my screen
Darren Islar: nor mine
Eliza Madrigal: I've people in my life who think I need too much personal space
Yakuzza Lethecus: it wasn´t on mine eiter, strange
Eliza Madrigal: Ya seems fine to me, too
Darren Islar: ha!

Eliza Madrigal: It might be one of those ways that SL and the internet in general, flip things around
Yakuzza Lethecus: is it better for oyu now ?
SophiaSharon Larnia: brb
Crusty Goldshark: Yes - better - I felt invaded by someone who wanted to ask a question - gohead ask ask - I was thinking . . .
Eliza Madrigal: Right now we have a lot of space from one another in rl, but little distance in terms of sharing potentially
Eliza Madrigal: and sometimes we're at a packed dinner, a million miles away really
Eliza Madrigal: from those we're with

Crusty Goldshark: Well I feel that their is a great deal of space and comfort in the SL-collective
Darren Islar: we do ask questions sometimes Crusty, but you don't need to answer them
Crusty Goldshark: Thanks Darren - understood :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: the space here for me is comfortable when its anonymous, as Ive become less anonymous, ive been more uncomfortable
Crusty Goldshark: If I was in a meditation with real people, I would probably have to be in another room to feel my pschic link was not being influenced by stray thoughts

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: interesting... freedom in anonymity
Crusty Goldshark: Yes - it seems personal but is not
Crusty Goldshark: However the connection is real and as is said as we reveal more of our persona it becomes more real

SophiaSharon Larnia: thinking on personal space during the 90 secs. and not really feeling any line where it begins exactly.... interesting.....

Darren Islar pondering about anonimity and real
Eliza Madrigal: hmm.. and then I wonder about compartmetalizing, too
SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
Darren Islar: anonymity makes it more possible to be personal and that makes it more real
Darren Islar: I can remember a conversation I had with someone that said that the contact in sl was more heart to heart
Darren Islar: that made me think
Crusty Goldshark: Perhaps - I feel people have different approaches and responses - as in RL
SophiaSharon Larnia: it is that! if you want to be so
Eliza Madrigal: I think the potential to bypass appearances is great, here, but agree with Crusty
Darren Islar: then I realized that we don't have the humbug of somebody not picking up his clothes, picking his nose, even no body language
SophiaSharon Larnia: ha
Eliza Madrigal: hahah
Darren Islar: maybe that gives us the possibility to become more real on another level?
SophiaSharon Larnia: a less personal level?
SophiaSharon Larnia: person-al
Eliza Madrigal: its another dimension... a dimension where we meet inside out, if we choose...
SophiaSharon Larnia: or more?
Darren Islar: yes or more personal

Crusty Goldshark: heart to heart - I feel that is possible - but then some people wish to engage in superficiality in rl or in sl - for example is there joy in virtual shopping and virtual sex? How satisfying are those?
Darren Islar: here we show ourselves in the way we would like to be
Eliza Madrigal: the RL avatar is in the hidden layer... and the RL hidden is sometimes on the outside
Darren Islar: a perfect picture
Darren Islar: not always real
Darren Islar: but in real life we can be very judgmental
Crusty Goldshark: I don't want to be bald
Darren Islar: that is pretty hard to do in sl, if it comes to looks :-)
Crusty Goldshark: however I do want a cape
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Darren Islar: :_)
Eliza Madrigal thinks we can be just as judgemental in SL if we're prone to that...
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
Eliza Madrigal: so there is intention

SophiaSharon Larnia: for me personal space is linked with spiritual space, theres no real seperation there
Darren Islar: we are not less judgmental then we are in rl
SophiaSharon Larnia: because that is who i am
Darren Islar: but it is harder to judge someone by just looking at him/her
Eliza Madrigal: its actually tricky to discuss, which seems counterintuitive to me
Eliza Madrigal: space, that is
SophiaSharon Larnia: and this spiritual space is easily disrupted by thoughts of the mind, easily tossed to and fro by the wind
Darren Islar: true Sharon

Eliza Madrigal: Last night's session was another interesting one...
Eliza Madrigal: the theme with Eos, discussing "Be Decisive"
Eliza Madrigal: the strong, settled mountain imagery....
Eliza Madrigal: the winds coming and going, the storms arising and ceasing...

SophiaSharon Larnia: the thing with mountains, are they were once the bottom of the ocean, that part of the imagery intrudes :)
Eliza Madrigal: I wonder about where that settledness comes from... and wonder about the satisfaction of space...
Eliza Madrigal: lots of space in water....

Darren Islar: you said some intreging things Eiza, but I'm afraid you lost me
Eliza Madrigal giggles
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles, Eliza is always intriquing
Darren Islar: :-)
Darren Islar: more so today :-)
Eliza Madrigal: or incomprehensible
SophiaSharon Larnia: noo lol
SophiaSharon Larnia: maybe me babbling and disrupting flow
Darren Islar: nice an incomprehensible woman
Eliza Madrigal: =P~ babbling brooks are nature... not that you do

--BELL--

SophiaSharon Larnia: haha
Darren Islar: I haven't heard any babbling
Darren Islar: except from the fountain :-)

SophiaSharon Larnia: 90 secs of the brook..... a babbling brook knows no delinated space, it flows to fill a void, an empty space.....
Eliza Madrigal: hmm..
Eliza Madrigal: what's interesting is it is our 'idea's about things taking space, that take space...
Darren Islar: another intreging remark :-)
Eliza Madrigal: space itself is inclusive... there is just as much when something is in it...
Eliza Madrigal: and people, too... which has been difficult in practice for me at least

SophiaSharon Larnia: (technically, babbling brook water moves air molecoles or whatever so not a true statement, or the void is not void

Eliza Madrigal: that no matter how busy or intrusive someone might be, space is always there....
Eliza Madrigal: ah, though maybe not air

     

Crusty Goldshark: I think a lot on 'Emptiess is form and form is emptiness' - the mahayana dictum
Eliza Madrigal: Say more, Crusty? I'm quite inspired by that too... Heart Sutra...
SophiaSharon Larnia: the thing about letting down the fear to say what i think here, is some weird things come out hahahah

Crusty Goldshark: Well . . . in terms of personal space - what we experience is our form but the space (the sense of individual space or being) is illusionary . . .
Crusty Goldshark: So we have no self (though we appear to have a form) We are both empty and form

Eliza Madrigal: nothing excluded Sharon... hehe... sharing it all.. confusion and doubt and brilliance and fatigue and bliss... :)))

Crusty Goldshark: Just as in SL we are both an experience of nothing that exists - being just the interplay of keyboard and minds . . .
Eliza Madrigal: ah, forms as overlapping patterns in that sense crusty... clusters?
Crusty Goldshark: Yes you could say clusters - or nodes of the borg collective or however the metaphor apears to you . . .
Eliza Madrigal: :))

Darren Islar: I think this discussion is just to abstract to me
SophiaSharon Larnia: im trying to lock it down myself, Darren, not succeeding but thinking about this space
Eliza Madrigal: fluidity of space...
Crusty Goldshark: In terms of personal space I feel we integrate more with our environment and empathise more with others as part of our being - sothe idea of personal space becomes much bigger
Darren Islar: (I guess Liza should be here, she would love this)
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Crusty Goldshark: I feel this developing fluidity of mine and other grows as we perhaps understand more of our limitations and also our possibilities . . .
SophiaSharon Larnia: and understands
Eliza Madrigal: ah, crusty... like that is the base level.... connectedness
Eliza Madrigal simles at Darren and Sharon

Crusty Goldshark: Yes we tend to connect in ways that keeps us seperate - in other words even very personal encounters are nothing of the sort - they lack intimacy or real sharing . . .

Eliza Madrigal: I'm not 'keeping up' either.. but sometimes one takes a long winding road before finding the vista?
Eliza Madrigal nods @ Crusty.. Is that just a matter of intention you think? Or not seeing that we're all in the same boat, in a sense?

--BELL--

Crusty Goldshark: Well Eliza, we are , when we meet on the same part of the journey - where you go - I in part travel too - to a new vista (or Linux in my case :)
Eliza Madrigal: through one spot we can see all others... yes, very inspiring actually....
Eliza Madrigal: Indra's Net
Eliza Madrigal apologizes to the bell
Crusty Goldshark: We are in the same boat. think of it as a large coracle, circling and paddling in different directions or going with the flow . . .
Crusty Goldshark: Sorry been a while since I have been in SL - will get my sound working and then might hear the bell .. . . and fountain

SophiaSharon Larnia: or saying, heck with it and throwing your self in the babbling brook to be swept away
Eliza Madrigal: !
Darren Islar: that is weird to me, the lack of intimacy or real sharing
Crusty Goldshark: how so Darren?
Eliza Madrigal: Crusty, I apologized since I've been doing that a lot lately.... exposing it so I stop. Hah
Eliza Madrigal: I lowered the fountain, but normally one can "see" the bell

Darren Islar: well we are born alone and die alone
Darren Islar: so we do lack some connection
Eliza Madrigal: who are 'we'
Darren Islar: we do so by only getting born
Darren Islar: but that doesn't mean to me tha we can't reach each other
Darren Islar: or be intimite
Darren Islar: as you said Eliza, you can be very lonely at a large dinnertable where people aren;t able to connect
Crusty Goldshark: When we are born - we do not really exist yet - and during the process of death we also begin the process of ceasing - in between we fell there is something called I - never found that I to exist . . .
Darren Islar: of course we do exist
Darren Islar: the shap is not completed yet, true
Eliza Madrigal: thinks that may depend on who we think we are
Eliza Madrigal: or what we think we are
Eliza Madrigal: now *realy* incomprehensible, eh? hahahha

Darren Islar: well I don't belief in a self
Darren Islar: but I have no idea what that means
Darren Islar: for as far as I am aware now
Crusty Goldshark: I do not doubt that the experience of existence is real for a baby in some way but the sense of 'I' take time to form
Darren Islar: Im sitting here, virually or in flesh and blood
Darren Islar: true Crusty
Darren Islar: I'm not really sure what I'm trying to say actually :-)

     

Eliza Madrigal: this is a funny session... a bit like bumper cars
Crusty Goldshark: During the process of finding the 'self' - it clings to the body, the mind, the emotions, the future etc but none of thes are 'I'
Darren Islar: feels that way :-)
Eliza Madrigal: with no drivers
SophiaSharon Larnia: loves bumper cars
Darren Islar: I don;t feel like drinving no :-)
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Eliza Madrigal: Crusty, thank you... interesting way of describing that

Darren Islar: I have no idea where I am :D
Eliza Madrigal: I am has no where either

Crusty Goldshark: The 'I'' moves - dependent on the persoan space it experiences or is involved in . . .
Eliza Madrigal: (now I'm really just throwing out stuff-hah)
SophiaSharon Larnia: the iam has no where ,,,, yay

     

Darren Islar: maybe I would like to explore things feeling this body of flesh and blood and take that as the beginning of my exploratiion
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes that is where i sit too
Darren Islar: I mean I am familiar with the Heart Sutra, but I can't really 'work' with it
Darren Islar: do I make any sense? I hope :-S
Crusty Goldshark: Body identification, I am my left toe - when I fcus there or I am my (whatever sensation) but again these are 'dependent arisings'
Darren Islar: of course they are, but that is what I feel
SophiaSharon Larnia: you do make sense :))
Crusty Goldshark: :)
Darren Islar: thanks :-)

Yakuzza Lethecus: thx, everyone
Darren Islar: bye Yaku
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Yakuzza
Eliza Madrigal: Bye ya
Crusty Goldshark: I have to move my empty form and cook some food to fill the evoid

--BELL--

SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Crusty
Eliza Madrigal: haha, Bye Crusty :)
Darren Islar: that's what I mean Crusty :-)
Crusty Goldshark: bye guys live long and prosper
Darren Islar: bye
Eliza Madrigal: peace out
Eliza Madrigal: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: :) bye
SophiaSharon Larnia: ive ignored some house duties, like shopping, and paying bills so have to go now too :)) bye for now

Darren Islar: I think I just felt disconnected with the discussion, though it is very intreging
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, yes best wishes in catching up Sharon :))
Darren Islar: bye Sharon
Eliza Madrigal: Bye for now

Darren Islar: emptiness is form, form is empitness is too wide off to 'feel'
Eliza Madrigal: MMM, i feel it deeply....
Eliza Madrigal: from a different body... heart body, in a sense
Darren Islar: I do too, but can't 'work' with it
Darren Islar: I think that is what I mean with another level
Darren Islar: more close by
Darren Islar: more daily things
Eliza Madrigal nods...
Eliza Madrigal: everything can be a door....
Darren Islar: feeling the groud under my bare feet
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, yes
Darren Islar: or the water when we were standing in it
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Eliza Madrigal: I think I'll leave that bit in the log...
Eliza Madrigal: better go though, have appts today
Darren Islar: and don't get me wrong, the heart sutra and pondering about it, is very important
Darren Islar: okay
Eliza Madrigal: I do hear you.... wisdom in everything... in the most basic... maybe especially
Eliza Madrigal: :) Bye for now
Darren Islar is packing his confusion in his pocket
Eliza Madrigal: hahah
Darren Islar: :_0
Darren Islar: Bye Eliza
Eliza Madrigal waves