2010.04.06 19:00 - Know What Is, See Clearly

The Guardian for this meeting was Eos Amaterasu. The comments are by Eos Amaterasu. This was a continuation of the theme sessions on "Be decisive, Know what is, See clearly".

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Eos :) Decidedly punctual
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Eliza!
Eos Amaterasu: Decisive :-)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: I see Pema's tag, but no Pema...
Eos Amaterasu: nominally here?
Eliza Madrigal smiles now here, no where
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Eden

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Eden :)
Eos Amaterasu: Looking all summer-y
Eliza Madrigal: Your hair is just perfect with your outfit, Eden :)
Eden Haiku: Good evening Eos. Eliza, are you feeling any better with your cold?
Eden Haiku: Yes, feeling summery ;)
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, thanks for asking Eden... yes for the most part
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Pema :)
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Pema
Pema Pera: Hi E, E & E !
Eliza Madrigal: haha
Eden Haiku: Hello Pema.:)
Eos Amaterasu: hee hee hee
Eos Amaterasu: We will continue with the theme of "be decisive, know what is, see clearly"
Eliza Madrigal: Maybe we should wait just a few minutes before beginning, as others may arrive.... unless you'd like to give a recap Eos?
Eos Amaterasu: with Eliza taking the lead,...
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Eliza Madrigal: :) However that works
Eliza Madrigal: hah
Eliza Madrigal: <-- the undecisive
Eliza Madrigal: but learning ;-)
Eden Haiku: smiles
Eos Amaterasu: One thing we tried to do was to try some of what we're talking about in the 90 secs
Eos Amaterasu: being no where is a good start, Eliza (maybe also a good end :-)
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Pema Pera: and no when ?
Eliza Madrigal: then we're okay... I did like the "Be a mountain" exploration very much, during the pause last time....
Eliza Madrigal: 
Eos Amaterasu: It's "The Eos Amaterasu Experience", playing live SophiaSharon Larnia: :) 
Eliza Madrigal: :)) 
Eos Amaterasu: It's good and bad, happy and sad 
Agatha Macbeth: Wow 
Eos Amaterasu: sunny weather and rainy weather 
Eos Amaterasu: you let it all happen, neither pushing away nor pulling it in, and not ignoring it either 
Eos Amaterasu: that's a state of being 
Eos Amaterasu: being like a mountain 
Eos Amaterasu: on which are grasses, and trees, and rocks, and clouds, and goats, and rain 
Eos Amaterasu: but the mountain is there
Eos Amaterasu: yes, one image for "be decisive" was to be like a mountain, with wisps of cloud, birds, goats (very important :-)
Eliza Madrigal: yes mustn't forget the goats, right Eden?
Eden Haiku: Goats are very important on this mountain!
Eden Haiku: Moving targets!!
Eliza Madrigal: A few days after the first theme session, we were bubbling a bit on this topic in a session, and Eden shared a decisive moment I was touched by....
Eos Amaterasu: That's the thing: what do you do when you encounter a goat on the path?
Eos Amaterasu: (whups)
Eden Haiku: ;))
Eliza Madrigal: I wondered if you might share that Eden...? But of course I'm interested in what to do with goats, too. Hahah
Eden Haiku: can't remember what you are talking about. Can you give me a clue Eliza?
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, sorry... you had been planning to travel
Eden Haiku: Ah yes, and I made a decision to cancle my trip to France.
Eden Haiku: I regretted it a bit later ;)
Eliza Madrigal: I ask because I've thought about it a lot... that I think of "Be decsive" about all these big things, but our lives are little things mostly
Eden Haiku: But that was the right decision, it came from a deep place.
Pema Pera: so you will come to San Francisco then, Eden??
Eliza Madrigal: a deep settled place...
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Eden Haiku: Ah ah. I really feel wanted Pema :))
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pema Pera: you are ! ! ! !
Pema Pera: Uncle Pema wants YOU
Eden Haiku: I promise I will make it to one of the retreats. It is just a matter of timing.
Eden Haiku: I,=
Pema Pera: as for goats . . . .
Pema Pera: how about this? 

on a mountain path: 
meet a goat, open your coat 
to look much bigger

Eden Haiku: I'm in therapy right now and that would not be a good time for me ;)
Eden Haiku: Kind of EMDR intensive.
Eden Haiku: Being decisive to go to the bottom of it.
Eliza Madrigal: :) admire that
Pema Pera reading the web for EMDR http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMDR
Eliza Madrigal: And smiling at Pema's goat haiku.... very clever :)
Eden Haiku: But if I may, I would like to ask you Eos, an experience in which you applied this, in Real Life: being decisive, knowing what is, seeing clearly, ;) Would you? And Eliza as well?
Eden Haiku: What a haiku Pema!
Eos Amaterasu: Eliza? (he says decisively... :-)
Eden Haiku: Very good Eos! Ping pong!!!
Eliza Madrigal: I have to say that this vision of the 'three confidences' is something I'm settling with... I mentioned 'big' decisions I feel I have to make, but really..... I'm inspired by this idea of settling in like a mountain... allowing decisions to be made....
Eliza Madrigal: the mountain imagery is inspiring because it's a caretaker of sorts

--BELL--

Eden Haiku: Where is Eos? He vanished?
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, uh oh
Eden Haiku: Saved by the bell?
Pema Pera: mountains are emptiness, emptiness are mountains . . . .
Eliza Madrigal: :) Nice, Pema
Eden Haiku: You are really funny Pema, you know that ;))
Eliza Madrigal: WB Eos :)
Pema Pera blushes
Eden Haiku: What a vanishing act Eos!! Spectacular!
Pema Pera: hi Calvino
Eos Amaterasu: crash
Calvino Rabeni: Hello Pema :)
Eliza Madrigal: just in time... but now you're on the spot again :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Calvino :)
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Cal
Eden Haiku: Soory to hear that ;) Hi Calvino.
Calvino Rabeni: Hi eos
Eos Amaterasu: what did I miss?
Eden Haiku: Lots and lots Eos.
Pema Pera: hahaha
Eliza Madrigal: Just the bell actually Eos :) (laughs)
Eos Amaterasu: last I recall we were settling like a mountain :-)
Pema Pera: a floating mountain . . .
Eos Amaterasu: first there is a mountain, then there is no mountain....
Eos Amaterasu: then there is
Pema Pera: :-)
Eliza Madrigal: Eden Haiku: But if I may, I would like to ask you Eos, an experience in which you apllied this, in Real Life: being decisive, knowing what is, seeing clearly, ;)
Eden Haiku: ha ha!
Eos Amaterasu: Any othere questions?
Eos Amaterasu: But I passed the buck to Eliza
Eos Amaterasu listens
Eliza Madrigal: I spent it...
Eden Haiku: (((Shamed by my typos ))) hiding under my blue hair.
Pema Pera: Eos knowing what (it) is (to duck)
Eliza Madrigal: Kidding... maybe you missed my answer....will re post for you and for Cal
Eliza Madrigal: Eliza Madrigal: I have to say that this vision of the 'three confidences' is something I'm settling with... I mentioned 'big' decisions I feel I have to make, but really..... I'm inspired by this idea of settling in like a mountain... allowing decisions to be made.... 
[19:14] Eliza Madrigal: the mountain imagery is inspiring because its a caretaker of sorts
Calvino Rabeni: Thanks
Eden Haiku: What about you Calvino? Would you like to share an experience of Being decisive you had?
Pema Pera: I love that: being decisive by letting decisiveness be !!
Calvino Rabeni: Hmmm, can't decide what it would be ...
Eden Haiku: Eos seems to be avoiding his own subject so ;)))
Eos Amaterasu: how a caretaker, Eliza?
Calvino Rabeni: (searches memory)
Eliza Madrigal: I feel I'm not decisive in my life about some things because I feel the weight of the caretaking for others....
Eden Haiku: Look in inventory maybe Cal?
Eden Haiku: Ah yes, Eliza...
Eos Amaterasu: hmm
Eliza Madrigal: and while I might take some risks for myself... it takes a great deal of trust to settle into that kind of confidence when others are leaning....
Eos Amaterasu: ah
Pema Pera: not straying from openness is also a form of being decisive, though it may look like the opposite
Eliza Madrigal: leaning onto no ground.... yes
Calvino Rabeni: Last time I was decisive, it was to change the topic in a dialogue I was having, away from the expected topic to something else - that is, ti make a counter-proposal.
Calvino Rabeni: And another case is, I invited someone to lunch to learn more about a certain issue that had to do with a group
Eos Amaterasu: you can't be frivolous with others
Eden Haiku: Ok, that is decisive action with language then.
Eos Amaterasu: I don't think decisiveness means being right
Eliza Madrigal listens
Calvino Rabeni: The decisive action was with - what people were content to know and not know
Eos Amaterasu: it seems more a matter of engagement,
Calvino Rabeni: "rules of engagement" are negotiable
Eos Amaterasu: first by not running away from the charnel ground you're in (wish SophiaSharon was here)
Pema Pera: yes, decisively avoiding both fight and flight
Eliza Madrigal: She's engaged in letting go.... definitely engaging :)
Eos Amaterasu: letting go into that, which is a kind of fidelity to it, not running away
Eos Amaterasu: not pushing it
Eos Amaterasu: the weight isn't in this or that (clouds or goats)
Eos Amaterasu: it's in the openness of the space
Eos Amaterasu: which is immoveable
Pema Pera: neither huffing & puffing, nor giving up
Calvino Rabeni: Right
Eden Haiku: Ah yes, it is very subtle isn',it ?
Calvino Rabeni: You know something new will emerge, but can't control exactly what it is
Eos Amaterasu: so re others, staying with others, but with "deep in my heart I know there's no help I can bring"
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pema Pera: yes
Eos Amaterasu: fidelity to them
Pema Pera: and also: no help is needed
Eos Amaterasu: there can be rain on the mountain
Pema Pera: ultimately
Pema Pera: and then I can make gestures to celebrate the "no need"
Eos Amaterasu: or share the no need in the midst of painfully apparent need
Pema Pera: yes
Eliza Madrigal: appreciate that sensibility too...
Eliza Madrigal: Which perhaps leads in a bit to "Know what is" ?
Calvino Rabeni: When people create, along with "no need", then it takes an air that is celebratory
Eos Amaterasu: you're not modifying anything, so it's "being seeing"
Pema Pera: yes, Eliza, last time and now too we seem to focus on "being decisive"; how about "knowing what is"?
Eos Amaterasu: yes, the best gestures are "empty gestures"
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, yes... leaning on 'me' would be tampering....
Pema Pera: shall we take the second part for the next 90 sec: knowing what is?
Calvino Rabeni: Decisiveness without necessity ...
Eden Haiku: Know what is: perfection? Unity?
Pema Pera: let it answer itself!
Eos Amaterasu: pain, sorrow?
Pema Pera: it may speak
Eden Haiku: As part of unity of all there is?

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: :) How nice...
Pema Pera: yes, Eliza?
Eliza Madrigal: Hm, well just a kind of a vision of lots of things open... nothing hidden...
Eliza Madrigal: that would be my 'report'. :) Others?
Eden Haiku: Oh, transparency?
Eliza Madrigal: indeed
Eliza Madrigal: all 'in hand' if necessary in fact
Pema Pera: my attention was drawn to my surroundings, here in the wide open lobby of Hotel Kabuki, and I felt myself floating like seaweed in shallow water, waving with the waves of appearance in sight and sound . . .
Eliza Madrigal grins... what a wonderful image
Pema Pera: somebody listing a long series of ingredients for chemotherapy, loudly, as soon as the pause started . . .
Eden Haiku: Wow! It reminds me a prayer I made years ago: 
let my crystal-clear heart be in tune with the source of love.
Pema Pera: all as part of the waves . . .
Pema Pera: how nice, Eden!
Eliza Madrigal: nothing left out
Pema Pera: yes
Eliza Madrigal: And what a lovely prayer, Eden :)
Eliza Madrigal: "See Clearly"
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eden Haiku: Transparency and floating seaweed...
Eden Haiku: My experience was realizing that everything is a blessing in disguise.
Pema Pera: horizontal sea weed undulations amidst vertical water wave undulations . . .
Eos Amaterasu: wave as being
Pema Pera: Being Waving
Eden Haiku: Horizontal and vertical...interesting.
Calvino Rabeni: How about pain and sorrow, did anyone look at that?
Pema Pera: did you, Calvino?
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, and there's something hard to figure out - that pain and joy seem to be not just related, but the identical thing
Calvino Rabeni: I don't understand the "boxes" they are typically put within
Eliza Madrigal: well its part of what's open, nothing left out.... and well, blessings 'in disguise' imply working with obscurations....
Eden Haiku: They do not feel the same...
Calvino Rabeni: They feel like precisely the same thing to me
Calvino Rabeni: Only from a different perspective perhaps
Eden Haiku: Would you say more about that Calvino?
Calvino Rabeni: I was visualizing a theatrical mask, with a smile, and turned upside down it has a frown, as an analogy
Calvino Rabeni: Or walking around the back side of the statue of buddha
Calvino Rabeni: Same object, different perspective, different "name" for the same knowing
Eden Haiku: What did you see behind Buddha?
Calvino Rabeni: The back side - it's a metaphor - from that view the pain is a joy
Calvino Rabeni: It depends on the perspective from which identification occurs, or something
Eden Haiku: Very catholic point of view isn'it?
Calvino Rabeni: but really, I don't understand it well
Eden Haiku: Earning one's paradise through suffering I mean.
Calvino Rabeni: All I have to do to shift between pain and joy, is change perspective, the knowledge itself does not change
Eos Amaterasu: same with physical pain?
Pema Pera: . 

behind Buddha's back 
and behind Buddha's behind 
what is left to see?

Calvino Rabeni: Earning is "work now, get paid later" but I'm thinking of an immediate knowingness, more simultaneity
Eliza Madrigal: Oh My :) hehe
Eden Haiku: giggling at Pema's haiku...
Eliza Madrigal: Immediate knowingness.... yes Cal... I hear what you are saying now...
Eliza Madrigal: whatever presents
Calvino Rabeni: I'm looking at the physical pain issue Eos asked
Eden Haiku: Remembering the day His Holiness shared we all 100,000 of us that he had the runs ;)))
Pema Pera: yes, I agree, Cal, it's possible, but not so easy perhaps
Pema Pera: :)
Pema Pera: shal we try "seeing clearly" in the next break?

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: Eden :)
Eos Amaterasu: there's a kind of moisture of sadness that's direct clarity
Eden Haiku: yes
Calvino Rabeni: Nice to be reminded of that
Eden Haiku: The reality of sickness, old age, death. Suffering of suffering.
Eos Amaterasu: knowing what is can have an unrequited quality, in that it's not about you
Eliza Madrigal: and joy in letting go, amidst all that...
Eos Amaterasu: joy and sadness
Pema Pera was seeing many actions and moods of himself, moves away from no-self, during the day today, like shells of an onion; holding on to this thought, not paying enough attention to that thing, and so on, like a kaleidoscope
Eden Haiku: happay and sad good and bad
Calvino Rabeni: Maybe the dual feeling I was talking about earlier Eos?
Eos Amaterasu: could be, yes
Eos Amaterasu: it means the pain is painful, and the joy is joyful, no denial
Eliza Madrigal: just what is
Eos Amaterasu: that no denial has one taste
Eden Haiku: What does it taste?
Eliza Madrigal: or at least seems to be in that second I guess...
Eos Amaterasu: the sweetness of honey, the pain of loss of a loved one
Pema Pera: a taste of roundness without center
Eden Haiku: the bitterness of fear
Eos Amaterasu: and the softeness of the fearful one
Eos Amaterasu: perhaps with no avoidance the way is clear
Eden Haiku: the fire spices of anger and the coolness of caring
Calvino Rabeni: I was thinking that
Pema Pera: hi Steve!
Eos Amaterasu: it's not even your way to make, it is that wu wei :-)
stevenaia Michinaga: hello, call me Ruth
Eden Haiku: Steve, you are a girl!
Eos Amaterasu: hey Stevai!
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Steve :) er... Ruth :)
stevenaia Michinaga: I like Ruth
Eliza Madrigal: you've been 'updated' I guess :)
Eos Amaterasu: Darn new viewer :-)
Pema Pera: Stevanie!
Calvino Rabeni: Ruth means something like compassion or pity
stevenaia Michinaga: an excuse to shop
Pema Pera: no longer ruthless?
Eden Haiku: Stevanie-Ruth, welcome. You have a notecard of this place do you? :_))
Eliza Madrigal: :) hehehe
Eos Amaterasu sees Stevenaia as he/she is
stevenaia Michinaga: nods, Eos
Eden Haiku: Seeing clearly..
Pema Pera: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Steve, have a seat and I'll make you a note :)
Eos Amaterasu: yeah, it's that checkbox in the secret place
Eden Haiku: Do you agree to be recorded?
Pema Pera: Stevenaia coming home to Ruth . . .
Eos Amaterasu: recorded? we're going to make her famous!
stevenaia Michinaga: lol, already been there, Pema, I;m returning
Eden Haiku: Does she sing even?
Eos Amaterasu: I think you just want to be called Babe, Ruth
Pema Pera: hehehe
Eden Haiku: babe Ruth...
Eliza Madrigal: We're winding down the theme session now, Steve, but I wonder if we might continue Eos? I'll take my vitamins next week :)
Eliza Madrigal: Its been a lovely session...lots of poetry :)
Eos Amaterasu: Yes, there's a lot here
Pema Pera: yes, thank you all !
Calvino Rabeni: Ruth: sadness for another: pity for another person's troubles
Eliza Madrigal: Like this: 
[19:50] Eos Amaterasu: the sweetness of honey, the pain of loss of a loved one [19:51] Pema Pera: a taste of roundness without center 
[19:51] Eden Haiku: the bitterness of fear 
[19:51] Eos Amaterasu: and the softeness of the fearful one 
[19:52] Eos Amaterasu: perhaps with no avoidance the way is clear
Calvino Rabeni: Ruth is a soft emotion, maybe one of clarity
Eden Haiku: One can almost taste the taste of it :)))
Eliza Madrigal: :)))
Eos Amaterasu: Being ruthful - funny we never say that
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Calvino Rabeni: True, it is a "lost" emotion
Pema Pera wondering whether being ruthful is effable
Eos Amaterasu: clarity + compassion?
Calvino Rabeni: I was thinking that eos
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks Eos, Eden, Pema, Cal, and Steve :)
Eden Haiku: Thank you again for this delightful session Eos and Eliza!
Calvino Rabeni: Bye :)
Eos Amaterasu: /||\, E & E
Eden Haiku: Bye everyone ;))) Thanks for the chat ;))
Pema Pera: thank you all !
Eliza Madrigal: Night :) Namaste
Eden Haiku: Take care Eliza :)))
Eos Amaterasu: a prochaine foie (sic?)
stevenaia Michinaga: happy to provide dessert for the session
Pema Pera: oui

--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
Eos Amaterasu: There's a funny thing about pain that you can get some perspective and space around it, which doesn't really remove it but does provide that space
Eos Amaterasu: _/?\_
Calvino Rabeni: this is a good secret to know :)
Eos Amaterasu: I once had a week-long retreat scheduled, while I was going thru a major problem with sciatica
Calvino Rabeni: It is a profound thing to realize, that last point
Eos Amaterasu: ended up doing it, a week in pain
Eos Amaterasu: the negative and painful stuff can have more sense of life, of forcing you to wake
Calvino Rabeni: it can call that out, I'd say
Calvino Rabeni: it presses the issue of aliveness
Eos Amaterasu: keeps you out of never never land
Eos Amaterasu: maybe that's related to the energy of compassion, the "ruth" you mentioned
Calvino Rabeni: the alternative is the way pain "stops" the mind, and I don't mean in the good way
Eos Amaterasu: yes, you can be reduced to survival level
Calvino Rabeni: Ruth for oneself - perhaps related to forgiveness in some way
Calvino Rabeni: A self can be confused about whether it is the cause of the suffering
Eos Amaterasu: yes, a quality of mercy
Calvino Rabeni: ah
Eos Amaterasu: Mozart has that: sees very clearly, all the flaws and deception, but also the heart and sudden radiance
Eos Amaterasu: neither one denied
Calvino Rabeni: There are some traditional prayers for that mercy, I believe
Calvino Rabeni: Perhaps the meaning has been lost or is not so clear any more
Eos Amaterasu: What would one of those prayers be?
Calvino Rabeni: The christian prayer - "Lord Jesus Christ have mercy on my soul"
Calvino Rabeni: And although I am not christian, I see some esoteric meaning in these old forms
Eos Amaterasu: If JC can have mercy on your soul, that's a good encouragement for you to have mercy on yourself
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, it means the same, really
Eos Amaterasu: "not I, but Christ lives in me"
Eos Amaterasu: I guess living in that kind of "grace" allows things to just be
Calvino Rabeni: Or a buddha mind, or something bigger and freer, but in and as oneself
Eos Amaterasu: big mind can let the smallest thing be
Eos Amaterasu: including all the stuff that wants to wiggle out, or that we want to avoid
Calvino Rabeni: yes
Eos Amaterasu: that's the decisiveness of space

--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: A sense of expansiveness, not being boxed in by contingencies
Eos Amaterasu: that's a kind of confidence, that you can tolerate things to be as they are
Calvino Rabeni: It is nice to give it an "active" interpretation
Eos Amaterasu: then the way forward is more clear, if/when that question arises
Eos Amaterasu: you can make a stroke with the brush
Eos Amaterasu: be spontaneous
Eos Amaterasu: un-pre-meditated action....
Eos Amaterasu: meditation in action
Calvino Rabeni: So, is it "decisive" to create this experience?
Calvino Rabeni: Or whatever - tune into it? Notice it?
Eos Amaterasu: I think it comes out of decisiveness, the confidence to not have to go anywhere or do anything
Eos Amaterasu: which means you're not encrusted with anything when you do do
Eos Amaterasu: dee do do dah
Calvino Rabeni: zippity do dah :)
Eos Amaterasu: do be do be do
Eos Amaterasu: Well, time for me to sleep....
Eos Amaterasu: Thanks for sticking around, Calvino
Eos Amaterasu: Is that a "wobbly" t-shirt, by the way?
Calvino Rabeni: You're welcome, Eos, good talking to you
Calvino Rabeni: And yes, it is IWW
Eos Amaterasu: Cheers, good night!
Calvino Rabeni: Good night :)