2010.04.09 19:00 - Standing, Pondering a Sky with Happy Feet

The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal. The comments are by Eliza Madrigal, who was joined by Pema, Sky, Pila, Cal, and Paradise. In this long session we touched humility, dropped that topic to move with the moment of a returning friend & guardian, played with water and limits, then moved into a discussion which would carry much of the rest of the session: Standing and Energy.

At the end, Pila and Cal share some travels and tips. :)

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Pema :)))
Pema Pera: Hi there, Eliza!
Pema Pera: only you, tonight, so far?
Eliza Madrigal: Yes... and now you...
Eliza Madrigal: I just got home... thrilled with my own timing to be here punctually :)
Eliza Madrigal: that's Wol's... no description...
Pema Pera: just curious :-) looks like an oldfashioned radio speaker
Eliza Madrigal: Hm
Pema Pera: yes, I had seen your note, of being perhaps a little late, and thought to jump by briefly to make sure there was somebody here
Eliza Madrigal: Thank you :)
Eliza Madrigal: I think I'll manage the crowds somehow.. hehe
Pema Pera: haha, yes!
Pema Pera: Is there a topic you'd like to talk about?
Eliza Madrigal: Was just about to ask the same...
Pema Pera: (before we'll see each other, a week from now, with Wol and Gaya and others)
Pema Pera: (here in San Francisco)
Eliza Madrigal: I enjoyed reading the impromptu TSK session from last night's session
Pema Pera: ah yes, nice surprise, being called up, hehehe
Eliza Madrigal: Gaya and I are excited about SF (talked with her a bit today)
Pema Pera: well, one topic could be humility
Eliza Madrigal: Ohh, sure
Pema Pera: I talked with Stim about that today

 Sky arrives, and Pema seizes the opportunity to say Hello in person ...

Pema Pera: HEY
Pema Pera: SKY
Pema Pera: The SKY is falling !!!!
Pema Pera: so nice to see you here again
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sky :)) Nice to see you
Pema Pera: I'm glad you still remembered your way back here
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pema Pera: Eliza, have you met Sky?
Eliza Madrigal: Well, once here I think, and in recent emails :)
Sky Szimmer: hi everyone
Sky Szimmer: surprise to be here
Pema Pera: yes, how did that happen?
Pema Pera: you switched on the computer and woosh, you found yourself here? :-)
Sky Szimmer: had some time kids eating thought i'd check sl out
Pema Pera: glad you did -- and also I'm still waiting for your reply as to when to meet in Berkeley!
Pema Pera: I'm still here next week, but the week after we have our Play as Being retreat in San Francisco
Pema Pera: I'm staying right near Japan town
Eliza Madrigal: How far is Japan town from Berkeley?
Sky Szimmer: oh. you are here now?
Pema Pera: half an hour by subway (BART) and then another half our walking
Sky Szimmer: how about sunday?
Pema Pera: yes, I am, as I told you -- you should read your email, my dear :-)
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, not far at all
Pema Pera: let me check

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Pila, Nice to see you too! Do you know Sky?
Eliza Madrigal: And Hi Cal :)
Pema Pera: actually, on Sunday Steven will come to my hotel; if you can drive that day, we can meet here at Japan town, after 2 pm on Sunday, would that be okay? ( to Sky)
Pila Mulligan: hi Eliza, Sky, Pema and Cal
Pema Pera: hi Pila and hi Cal!
Sky Szimmer: ok., but will have kids
Pema Pera: fine!
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pema Pera: I'll call you later to arrange details
Pila Mulligan: kids allowed?
Eliza Madrigal: hehehe
Sky Szimmer: great. will see you in j town around 2ish
Pema Pera: Pila, you have met Sky, right?
Calvino Rabeni: Good evening, Pema, Pila, Eliza and Sky
Pila Mulligan: I may have, Sky, your name seems familiar
Pema Pera: she was part of the very first month of PaB, two years ago
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, I didn't know that... first month!
Pila Mulligan: nice to see you
Pema Pera: and came frequently during the first half year, until RL took over
Pema Pera: Calvino, I don't think you have met Sky yet
Eliza Madrigal: pesky RL :)
Calvino Rabeni: Good to meet you Sky
Sky Szimmer: no, i don't think so. its been a while. nice to meet you too

 "Everything is perfect"

Pema Pera: how is life, Sky?
Pila Mulligan: would you like to sit closer?
Sky Szimmer: great. new attitude new mindframe everything is perfect
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pema Pera: wow, that sounds great, Sky, can you tell us your secret ? (^_^)
Pila Mulligan: sounds lovely
Eliza Madrigal leans in
Sky Szimmer: just getting with the program :)
Pema Pera: program?
Sky Szimmer: j.k.
Sky Szimmer: been PaB that's all
Pila Mulligan: are your feet happy? happy feet make everything feel good
Pila Mulligan: :)
Sky Szimmer: what feet? i have no feet
Pila Mulligan: ohoh
Pila Mulligan: wrong question
Pema Pera pondering a sky with feet . . . .
Sky Szimmer: no body, no feet, no me
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: well, that sounds pretty empty
Pema Pera: hence the ninja appearance, not really there
Pila Mulligan: "going into your courtyard and not feeling your body" -- a line from the I Ching
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pila Mulligan: did anyone watch the PBS documentary on the life of Buddha?
Eliza Madrigal nods
Pila Mulligan: I liked it
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks for the reminder, Pila. I did too... moreso the beginning I think...
Eliza Madrigal: and I thought they didn't skip significant things, while making it simple...
Pila Mulligan: they have all the little peices on their internet site, and since I have no TV I watched it by ssembling the parts there
Pila Mulligan: so thesegments may have been shown in a differnt order on TV, but I agree, they had a nice simple summary of the segments
Eliza Madrigal: some of the animations/cartoons seemed a little long :) But that was more a persnickety thing on my part to be bothered
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pila Mulligan: I never heard the story of the white elephant before, that was cool
Pila Mulligan: his mother's dream

 For a display of what walking on water actually looks like...

 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9005492250163913372#

Pila Mulligan: when is the SFO retreat?
Pema Pera: the week after next
Pila Mulligan: are you going to run over to Japan before then?
--BELL--
Pila Mulligan: Pema
Pema Pera considering the idea of running over to Japan, walking on water . . . .
Eliza Madrigal giggles at 'running over'
Pila Mulligan: :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pema Pera: a lot of water!
Pila Mulligan: metaphor intended :)
Pema Pera: :)
Pema Pera: I'll be visiting Japan after the retreat
Pila Mulligan: related to the facility of your globe totting
Sky Szimmer: youwi;; need happy feet 4 that
Eliza Madrigal: hahhaha
Pema Pera: :-)
Pila Mulligan: floating feet :)
Pila Mulligan: I appreciated your observation (in a PaB log) about the value of a US passport vis a vis the whimsy of TSA people
Pila Mulligan: I can hardly endure them just for local island flights
Pema Pera: ah yes, waiting to get my passport, any day now
Pila Mulligan: cool mazel tov
Pema Pera: thnx :)
Pila Mulligan: if mazel tov in in order :) some may suspect otherwise lol
Sky Szimmer: got 2 run sans feet nice meetg u all
Pema Pera: :-)
Pila Mulligan: bye Sky
Pema Pera: Actually, I'll take off too
Eliza Madrigal: Sky, very nice to see you
Eliza Madrigal: And you too Pema
Pila Mulligan: bye Pema
Pema Pera: I was just coming in briefly to check the scene at 7
Eliza Madrigal: Bye
Pema Pera: bye everybody!
Eliza Madrigal waves
Calvino Rabeni: bye

There is a strange object by the pool, but I seize a good opportunity to discuss a strong theme that day...   

Pila Mulligan: what is the object Wol has left there by the pool, anyone know?
Eliza Madrigal: Pila, three times today standing meditation came up...
Pila Mulligan: oh, cool
Pila Mulligan: did you do it then?
Pila Mulligan: standing meditaiton?
Eliza Madrigal: yes, and then >aha< Pila arrives at a session for me to bother with questions :))
Eliza Madrigal: Well....
Eliza Madrigal: I've done a little at times...
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: I like it
Eliza Madrigal: bent knees...
Pila Mulligan: it can get gruelling if you do too much
Pila Mulligan: yep, bent knees
Eliza Madrigal: but today some pointers toward specific poses came up, and things like that...
Pila Mulligan: ahh, what were the pointers?
Eliza Madrigal: tree hugging pose?
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: especialy with a tree :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Well, I think I'm going to work this into practice, since it comes up like this ...
Eliza Madrigal: maybe just a little every day...
Pila Mulligan: have you heard of horse practice?
Eliza Madrigal: 10 -20 minutes
Eliza Madrigal: Yes that one came up too
Eliza Madrigal: What do you think?
Pila Mulligan: this is where the connection with the feet is especially valuable
Pila Mulligan: you may be able to feet your breathing connecting you with the ground through your feet
Pila Mulligan: feel*
Eliza Madrigal: Ahhhh.... I've had walks like that
Pila Mulligan: it literally feels like a flow of energy
Pila Mulligan: :) it is cool
Pila Mulligan: quite healty
Pila Mulligan: healthy*
Pila Mulligan: it makes the standing meditation better (and easier) if you can feel it
Eliza Madrigal: someone said tonight, to have feet faced outward... almost for ballet... but I was told its more a square stance....
Eliza Madrigal: so would like to start rather clearly and not frustrate myself
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: 'be like the sky'
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pila Mulligan: I'd sugggest you expereiment and find the best feeling for yourself
Pila Mulligan: then adjust as you go along
Pila Mulligan: as to stance/psoture
Eliza Madrigal: Ohhh that sounds too simple :)
Eliza Madrigal: heheh
Pila Mulligan: it is :)
Pila Mulligan: not only how you aim your feet but also how you place your arms
Eliza Madrigal: I found myself standing during longer practice this morning... just because I wanted to...
Eliza Madrigal: that's the first time it came up
Pila Mulligan: generally, if your feet are about the same width apart as your shoulders it is as suggested in tai chi
Pila Mulligan: but to me the best part is to have your butt as if sitting in a saddle
Pila Mulligan: rolling the top of your thigh bone in the hip socket
Eliza Madrigal: that sounds like something one couldnt do too long?
Pila Mulligan: so the pelvis is forward
Pila Mulligan: it is if you let it be comfortable
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, okay... gotcha.. similar to some yoga
Pila Mulligan: it becomes more so over time too
Pila Mulligan: yes
Eliza Madrigal: okay, I can picture that one
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: it seems to open the spine some
Pila Mulligan: for chi
Calvino Rabeni: And then, what to do with the spine...
Pila Mulligan: agan, be comfortable wiht it
Pila Mulligan: and adjust as you progresss
Pila Mulligan: the chi will guide you
Pila Mulligan: 'let the force be with you' :)
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Pila Mulligan: it wants to grow up too

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: Must be the chi insisting to add more subtle physical things into practice
Pila Mulligan: it wants to *wake* up too may sound more appropriate in the PaB context, but I was thinking of how the chi finds its way through the spine by practice and that kind of growth
Pila Mulligan: yes, exactly Eliza
Pila Mulligan: it can only insist so much though, you have to help it guide you
Eliza Madrigal: even in the pauses at times... stretching... checking posture... though I've often done that
Pila Mulligan: yep :)
Calvino Rabeni: There is a certain lengthening of the spine that I feel, has to arise from within it
Pila Mulligan: to me that is the actual value of the 9 second pause
Pila Mulligan: like a yoga
Pila Mulligan: not the only value, but most actual to me
Eliza Madrigal: makes sense
Pila Mulligan: yes, Cal, it really does feel like the psine lengthens , doesnt it
Eliza Madrigal: lenthening of the spine, Cal?
Calvino Rabeni: Yes
Pila Mulligan: stretching kind of
Calvino Rabeni: from within
Pila Mulligan: :) yep

Floating on chi... 

Eliza Madrigal: Interesting...
Eliza Madrigal: With yoga I feel an expansion of range...
Pila Mulligan: yep, just imagine the space between vertebrae
Pila Mulligan: compressed by stress, then floating on chi
Pila Mulligan: growing
Eliza Madrigal: and an ability to relax more deeply, but don't keep up with it .. perhaps this sort of thing will be more natural to work in every day...
Eliza Madrigal: 'on the spot' as it were
Pila Mulligan: it evolves
Pila Mulligan: in competition with rigor mortis though
Pila Mulligan: both are long term things
Calvino Rabeni: I visualize, the sacrum dropping gradually downward towards the earth in response to gravity, and the top of the head responding to the spaciousness of the sky
Pila Mulligan: :)
Calvino Rabeni: However that might not be your specific practice :)
Pila Mulligan: spine floating between?
Calvino Rabeni: Yes
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: in my daily confrontation with rigor mortis (tai chi practice) that metaphor fits incely
Eliza Madrigal: Before anyone arrived, Pema brought up the topic of humility... working with physical limitations keeps one pretty humble perhaps :)
Pila Mulligan: this is how practice whorks after a certain age, about 60 for me
Pila Mulligan: yes, they vary from person to perosn'
Pila Mulligan: limitations and humility
Eliza Madrigal: "I ache in the places where I used to play" L. Cohen
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: but much of that can be addressed
Pila Mulligan: it people try
Pila Mulligan: and some cannot

 Trust one's own process...

Calvino Rabeni: There is an element to it that's important - to trust one's own process and its emergence (rather than imposing it to match a mental image)
Pila Mulligan: modesty is the most auspicious of all the essential images int he I Ching, by the way
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Calvino Rabeni: We are not trying to conform to a pattern
Pila Mulligan: it is the only gua with no negative connotations
Calvino Rabeni: that we know in advance
Eliza Madrigal: Ahhhh...rare then
Pila Mulligan: occasional :)
Eliza Madrigal: Calvino I appreciate that distinction very much....
Eliza Madrigal: like standing this morning... there was room enough in my practice to do so
Eliza Madrigal: but I'd guess like many things, can become strict about it
Calvino Rabeni: Many people don't get "into" the practice because they fear not knowing how to do it "right"
Pila Mulligan: as opposed to simply doing it :)
Eliza Madrigal: with happy feet
Pila Mulligan: :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)

An exercize! 

Calvino Rabeni: Yes - "right" is simply doing it :)
Pila Mulligan: want to do a little exercise?
Eliza Madrigal: Sure!
Pila Mulligan: extend you arms out alittle from your side, while sitting
Pila Mulligan: separate the finger a little in each hand, so they are apart
Pila Mulligan: then let your hands shake liek you are really nervouse -- heebie jeebies -- for about half a minute
Pila Mulligan: can you feel the energy around your hand then?
Eliza Madrigal: Oh sure! to elbows really...
Pila Mulligan: next time you try stanidng meditaiton
Pila Mulligan: before you start
Pila Mulligan: try a similar exercise with your feet :)

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: hehe, it would have to be before you start
Pila Mulligan: yes
Eliza Madrigal: ;-)
Pila Mulligan: one at a time
Eliza Madrigal: one at a time while standing?
Pila Mulligan: of couorse
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: or yes :)
Eliza Madrigal: hehe... didn't know if you meant do this sitting and then stand....
Pila Mulligan: nope, I meant standing, should have said so first :)
Pila Mulligan: it is not as interesting with the feet when you sit
Eliza Madrigal: maybe sky or pema could do with both feet standing...
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Pila Mulligan: :0
Pila Mulligan: floating
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pila Mulligan: you can really exaggerate the shaking too
Pila Mulligan: strong is okay
Eliza Madrigal: jazz hands :)
Pila Mulligan: yep
Calvino Rabeni: I'm not sure, Pila
Pila Mulligan: ... ?
Pila Mulligan: Cal may have a thought here
Calvino Rabeni: In my experience, there's a significant difference between shaking that originates "from within" and shaking imposed as a voluntary controlled action
Pila Mulligan: yes, quite true
Pila Mulligan: I'm referring to voluntary, from wihtin
Pila Mulligan: simulated nervous shaking
Eliza Madrigal: So can play around with it a bit....
Calvino Rabeni: The "within" shaking may intensify with attention
Calvino Rabeni: but it is not imposed by major muscle groups
Pila Mulligan: yes, and in playing with it you may find that if you do have a nervous hand shake some day you can actually do this exercie and relieve it some

 An energy thing...

Pila Mulligan: yes, it is an energy thing more than a muscle thing
Calvino Rabeni: Yes
Eliza Madrigal: hm... nice
Calvino Rabeni: the energy moves the body
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Paradise :)
Pila Mulligan: hi {Paradise
Pila Mulligan: how are you?
Eliza Madrigal: We were talking about standing meditation.. energy flow, etc.
Paradise Tennant: hiya pila .. cal eliza :)
Paradise Tennant: hmm interesting
Eliza Madrigal: Really enjoying it though will have go sign off soon.... early day tomorrow
Pila Mulligan: and happy feet :)
Eliza Madrigal: Yes! Can't forget the happy feet :)
Pila Mulligan: bye ELiza, nice to see you, sweet dreams
Eliza Madrigal: Thank you Pila, Sweet dreams to you too!
Eliza Madrigal: And to you Cal, and Paradise :))
Eliza Madrigal: Hugs

 I needed to get some sleep, so thank you Paradise for posting these links!

Paradise Tennant: was youtubing last night had today off so stayed up late .. watched a whole series on tibetan energy flowing movements .. that were introduced by tarthang tulku
Pila Mulligan: hugs
Paradise Tennant: nite nite eliza
Pila Mulligan: nice, Paradise -- those are the most fun parts of You Tube to me
Eliza Madrigal: Interesting Paradise.. would love to find a link to that in the log perhaps :) Like an easter egg
Eliza Madrigal: Hah, Night :)
Paradise Tennant: kk will dig one up very nice series worth watching :)
Pila Mulligan: did you see th PBS Buddha show?
Pila Mulligan: this week
Paradise Tennant: no ..
Paradise Tennant: never really turn on my tv
Paradise Tennant: i missed it
Pila Mulligan: it was pretty good, I have no TV -- but they have the segments on their website, PBS
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Pila Mulligan: so you can watch them online
Paradise Tennant: cool
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: did you find the You Tube link? I looked but cannot tell from what Google shows
Paradise Tennant: just searching for it now ..
Paradise Tennant: sorry having to multi task here may take me a moment :)
Pila Mulligan: :)
Paradise Tennant: we were talking about tarthang tulku last night so I watched some short videos on tsk on you tube and then started doing general searches on him
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: was the video about a tibetan yoga exercise
Pila Mulligan: ?
Pila Mulligan: Google has quite a few tibetan energy yoga videos
Paradise Tennant: there a term for it but not yoga
Pila Mulligan: ok
--BELL--
Paradise Tennant: ekum nye
Pila Mulligan: I was just about to ask :)
Pila Mulligan: found it
Pila Mulligan: http://www.kumnyeyoga.com/
Pila Mulligan: "The system of Kum Nye Yoga presented here is drawn from the training and experience of Tarthang Tulku,..."
Paradise Tennant: http://www.kumnyeyoga.com/online-prog...

Paradise Tennant: lol you are faster
Paradise Tennant: yes 106 videos
Paradise Tennant: yowser

 A typo kami? :)

Pila Mulligan: "Kum Nye Yoga is a gentle healing system that relieves stress, transforms negative patterns, and helps us to be balanced and healthy. "
Pila Mulligan: maybe the wolrd will get healthier then
Pila Mulligan: :)
Calvino Rabeni: Not to be "mundane" but what's this object floating in front of us (belonging to Wol)?
Paradise Tennant: yes was very interesting very relaxing .. specially the how tos on using all kinds of energy even the upsetting negative ones
Paradise Tennant: i was just checking it out
Pila Mulligan: Cal mentioned earlier how fear of doing something wrong can interfere with doing it
Calvino Rabeni: Right that's important, using the so-called negative energies
Paradise Tennant: yes apparently there is lots of really good stuff that is very usable :)
Paradise Tennant: he was very enthusiatic about it :)
Paradise Tennant: smiles at my typos !
Pila Mulligan: :)
Paradise Tennant: could this be something to do with the recorder
Pila Mulligan: a recorder causing typos, what an idea :)
Pila Mulligan: what is that object Paradise -- I misunderstood your comment :)
Pila Mulligan: I was wondering why Wol put it there
Calvino Rabeni: Whatever it is, appears to be pretty durable
Paradise Tennant: smiles no my typos are all mine .. just wondering what this was and why it was here :)
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: too bad, I need a good typo excuse
Calvino Rabeni: Maybe there's a typo "kami" Pila
Pila Mulligan: ahh, nice idea
Pila Mulligan: a preta typa
Pila Mulligan: a key djin
Paradise Tennant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W533_PRGHFE&feature=PlayList&p=8F1CDF91F95034D4&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=109

Calvino Rabeni: :)pila
Paradise Tennant: here is the link to the three tsk videos
Pila Mulligan: tanks Paradise
Paradise Tennant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W533_PRGHFE
Paradise Tennant: actually that is it .. the other was a play list
Pila Mulligan: :)

--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: There are so many techniques of practice that involve visualization
Paradise Tennant: yes
Paradise Tennant: think I like the ones that don't best :)
Paradise Tennant: the ones that are just still :)
Calvino Rabeni: And at the same time, I believe people proceed normally as if visual mental images had no effect or significance
Calvino Rabeni: And if they do have effect/significance, one's use of them should not be limited to these funny "practice" routines we might learn from time to time
Calvino Rabeni: but be much more general
Paradise Tennant: there are such interesting approaches out there .. last night I listened to a lady who had started a mystery school
Pila Mulligan: mystery as in nature?
Calvino Rabeni: Have you tried, e.g. moving the monitor, and comparing it to *visualizing* moving the monitor, in which the SL images are displayed?
Calvino Rabeni: While observing the effect it has on the nature and meaning of those images....

Paradise Tennant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NxKNW0lPgI

Pila Mulligan: not sur eI understand
Paradise Tennant: blinks
Paradise Tennant: moving the monitor and comparing it to visualizing moving the monitor ..
Paradise Tennant: there is a hand exercise the tibetans do that is similar

What is mystery... 

Calvino Rabeni: Yes. Your avatar appears in a fixed location relative to the rest of one's body, and the monitor a fixed size.
Calvino Rabeni: The mind's eye can vary all of those conditions
Calvino Rabeni: With perhaps a equivalent effect as if one changed the monitor for a projection video system
Calvino Rabeni: And watched it in a standing stance rather than sitting in a chair
Calvino Rabeni: The internal body sense would be completely different
Calvino Rabeni: Perception is not just a flow that is reaching from world to oneself
Pila Mulligan: so you imagine you are moving the video screen and that the stuff on it moves also?
Calvino Rabeni: The neurology of it - structure of neurons, etc. - supports that there is more "energy" or whatever being projected outward from the self, into space and into time
Calvino Rabeni: Well, you imagine - it is one of the possible experiments for the "pause"
Paradise Tennant: yes an interesting one
Pila Mulligan: was this an exercise from last night listening to a lady about a mystery school?

     

Calvino Rabeni: All the visuallizations that are part of all these "routines" learned as Tai Chi, quigong, kum nye, yoga, meditation, etc. -
Paradise Tennant: lol no me .. surfing .. :on youtube
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Pila Mulligan: :)
Calvino Rabeni: Are basically just to awaken you to how the bodymind normally works
Pila Mulligan: ... I was wondering where the mystery part enters?
--BELL--
Paradise Tennant: I think the egyptians had mystery schools that is where the term comes from :)
Paradise Tennant: tried the visualization in the pause
Pila Mulligan: where is your monitor now Paradise? :)
Paradise Tennant: smiles just where it normally is :)
Pila Mulligan: I can imagine the movement but it does not inspire a sense of mystery
Pila Mulligan: yet, anyway :)
Pila Mulligan: maybe I'm stuck in one place :)
Paradise Tennant: wonders sorry I think I interjected the term .. it related to the link not the visualization .. though .. maybe on some level that too
Paradise Tennant: the whole body mind is a mystery
Calvino Rabeni: People have a "hunger" for mystery - someone can come up with a plausible framework for it and then it becomes meaningful as people project into it
Pila Mulligan: mystery is a quintessential form of drama
Calvino Rabeni: There seems to need to be a sense of "beyond" to it

Paradise Tennant: hmm funny I think the reverse we are always trying to minimize it .. explain it a away .. and never really want to face how little we know :) so we make it up instead
Calvino Rabeni: Insofar as it gives the pattern we know as self, room to move, room to grow
Paradise Tennant: a lot of science is just made up .. until someone makes something else up that proves it wrong :)
Pila Mulligan: :)
Calvino Rabeni: How is it that a visualization can induce "energy" movements in the body-mind?
Pila Mulligan: I read somewhere that when physicians used leeches to bleed patients long ago it actually could have a few limited helth benefits
Calvino Rabeni: Science would assume they are unrelated; but, ?
Paradise Tennant: how come you can see the outline of amputated limbs in electormagnetic images ?
Pila Mulligan: fantasy and imagination would seem to beenfit from visually oriented exercises
Paradise Tennant: lol thinks it is all fantasy :)
Pila Mulligan: life is but a dream :)
Calvino Rabeni: It is because the sense of self - itself - is one of those visualized constructs
Pila Mulligan: meerily meerily meerily meerily gently down the stream
Pila Mulligan: merrily*
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Calvino Rabeni: But not "merely" :)
Pila Mulligan: :)

Pila Mulligan: so seeing the self in a better light may help, eh?
Calvino Rabeni: There are all the demos with "rubber hand" and moving phantom limbs of amputees
Calvino Rabeni: The eye sees (visualizes) it, then the body feeling says that what is seen, is true
Pila Mulligan: hi Steve
Pila Mulligan: how are you?
stevenaia Michinaga: hello, good,
Pila Mulligan: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: long session...
Paradise Tennant: hiya steve
Paradise Tennant: we are noodling
Pila Mulligan: yep
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: noodling?
Calvino Rabeni: "noodling" a massage therapy term ?
Calvino Rabeni: Can you "visualize" how that would feel?
stevenaia Michinaga: turning one into a noodle-like feeling?
stevenaia Michinaga: yes
Pila Mulligan: as opposed to canoodling
Pila Mulligan: (smooching)
Calvino Rabeni: Ah :)
Paradise Tennant: lol I often also call it poddling (because of the dog bearded collie poodle mix )
--BELL--
Paradise Tennant: lol that would be poodling
Pila Mulligan: :)
Calvino Rabeni: I don't know if Pila would agree, but I think the I Ching is about Qualities
Pila Mulligan: I agree that you think the I Ching is about Qualities :)
Calvino Rabeni: And when you receive a massage, what is important is the specific qualities of the movement
Pila Mulligan: never heard to the contrary at least
Pila Mulligan: the qulaity of an act is certainly important
Calvino Rabeni: In our world it's a somewhat tricky thing to talk about
Calvino Rabeni: since most things are overtly measured and quantified
Pila Mulligan: :)
Calvino Rabeni: or evauated logically
Pila Mulligan: I agree
Pila Mulligan: and empirical qualkuities are often overlooked
Pila Mulligan: qualities*
Pila Mulligan: or observed qualities
Pila Mulligan: but we live in a yang world these daze
Calvino Rabeni: Some extremely subtle massage therapy treatments can be quite effective
Pila Mulligan: acupuncture may also fall into that category
Paradise Tennant: loves acupuncture
Paradise Tennant: works really well for all manner of isssues!
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Pila Mulligan: and it is also quite subtle
Paradise Tennant: yes
Pila Mulligan: subtle*
Pila Mulligan: same with moxibustion

Paradise Tennant: speaking of subtle .. I think I should quietly take my leave .. getting late and the dog gets cranky if I keep him up to late :)
Pila Mulligan: good evening to you and Blue Paradise
stevenaia Michinaga: night Paradise
Calvino Rabeni: Calvino Rabeni waves to Paradise
Pila Mulligan: sweet dreams and subtle arfs
Paradise Tennant: nite nite all :) sweet dreams :) full of subtle qualities :)
stevenaia Michinaga: I must be off as well
Pila Mulligan: bye Steve
stevenaia Michinaga: thanks
Pila Mulligan: nioce to see you
Calvino Rabeni: Take care Steve
Pila Mulligan: Cal, in my opinion the I Ching approaches is unique in expressing qualities by way of the concept of yin
Pila Mulligan: approach*
Pila Mulligan: yin quality pervades acts and conditions
Calvino Rabeni: (listens)
Calvino Rabeni: Oh, yes
Pila Mulligan: so, for exmaple, a particular quality not considered by science (unmeasurable) affects the conditions of things
Pila Mulligan: the quality of acts and expereinces
Pila Mulligan: some day maybe science will measure yin
Pila Mulligan: in terms of quality
Pila Mulligan: or even qunatity to start :)
Calvino Rabeni: What it brings to mind, is the pervasive importance of relaxation in the various practices, in order to create the yin space that has enough sensitivity to register the subtle qualities

Pila Mulligan: hint: Chinese cooks add sesame oil at then end of cooking to enhance the yin
Pila Mulligan: yes, but how to meqasure it?
Pila Mulligan: measure*
Calvino Rabeni: What do you think ?
Pila Mulligan: about measuirng yin?
Calvino Rabeni: I don't quite get the concept of it being measurable
Pila Mulligan: I guess I evaluate yin more thanmeasure -- I see its quality -- ubt I was thinking how to translate that to science terms

--BELL--

Pila Mulligan: science does not yet generally acknowledge what Chinese and many other cultures have long referred to by the term yin
Pila Mulligan: and before some sicentist can write a paper on it they probably need to make it measurable
Pila Mulligan: or viewale or something
Pila Mulligan: tangible :)
Calvino Rabeni: In a sense - an analogy that occurred to me in the TSK class is that yin:space as yang:time
Pila Mulligan: yes, that sounds fun
Pila Mulligan: so how do you measure space?
Calvino Rabeni: So yin could be "space" in science - the place where things are allowed to happen
Pila Mulligan: :)
Calvino Rabeni: They made up metrics such as distances
Calvino Rabeni: but only relative to standard objects -
Pila Mulligan: for those inclinced to grant writing, one could get NSF funds to analyze how sesame oil affects cooked food
Calvino Rabeni: such as platinum sticks or light waves
Pila Mulligan: or how tang kuei differs from ginseng
Pila Mulligan: and then, at the next level, aside from just the dimensions of a space, how about its qualities?
Pila Mulligan: is the air clea here?
Pila Mulligan: clean*
Pila Mulligan: are the moslecules happy?
Pila Mulligan: molecules*
Pila Mulligan: this is noe of the most subtle things from the Secret of the Golden Flower: yin corruption cause yang compulsion
Pila Mulligan: one*
Pila Mulligan: causes*
Pila Mulligan: maybe kind of a panic reaction

:) Travelogue...

Calvino Rabeni: I'm traveling to thailand in a couple of days - an opportunity to sense qualities of the spaces I encounter
Calvino Rabeni: AH, the golden flower :)
Pila Mulligan: oh, nice Cal
Pila Mulligan: for fun?
Pila Mulligan: vacation that is
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, for recreation
Pila Mulligan: i hope you have a good time
Pila Mulligan: maybe find a Thai wife :)
Calvino Rabeni: Thanks, I will. It is a way of "dropping" a big cultural chunk of stuff
Pila Mulligan: truly
Pila Mulligan: and immersing yourself in a differnt chunk
Pila Mulligan: a much older one too
Pila Mulligan: older than Marin County at least
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, I like the sense of history - like an ancient cavern that used to be inhabited by a tiger
Pila Mulligan: :)
Calvino Rabeni: Memories of ancestors
Calvino Rabeni: Something not too conscious in the West
Calvino Rabeni: All adding to a sense of place - and their Qualities
Calvino Rabeni: I'm looking forward to visiting those monasteries that are on the top of a Karst spire
Pila Mulligan: Thai new year celebration ends April 10th
Pila Mulligan: http://www.tourismthailand.org/festi...tent-7500.html
Pila Mulligan: oops starts the 10th ends the 15th
Pila Mulligan: how much time will you have in Thailand?
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, I have been wanting to be there during new year
Calvino Rabeni: This time only 2 weeks
Pila Mulligan: should be plenty
Pila Mulligan: for a vacation

Pila Mulligan: "Karst towers are surrounded by rivers, alluvial plains, or mangrove forests" -- http://www.siue.edu/GEOGRAPHY/ONLINE/MGfig9.jpg

Calvino Rabeni: Yes, last time I went for 3 months, so did not have to try to "fit everything in"
Calvino Rabeni: Thanks for the links
Pila Mulligan: http://www.siue.edu/GEOGRAPHY/ONLINE/MGfig10a.jpg

Pila Mulligan: :)
--BELL--
Pila Mulligan: many people go there from here failry often
Pila Mulligan: http://www.siue.edu/GEOGRAPHY/ONLINE/MGfig10b.jpg

Pila Mulligan: "At Tiger Cave Monastery in the province of Phang Nga, Buddhist monks have established a temple, part of which extends under a karst overhang. Access to this part of the monastery is by a stairway that ascends a tall, nearly vertical ridge of limestone and then descends on the other side into a closed karst valley that is lush with the dark green vegetation of a tropical rain forest."

Calvino Rabeni: http://images.google.com/images?q=Than%20Bokkharani&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-ContextMenu&oe=UTF-8&rlz=1I7GGLR_en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi

Calvino Rabeni: Yes I'm planning to go to Wat Tham Suea
Pila Mulligan: cool -- going to climb the nearly vertical stairs?
Calvino Rabeni: YEs
Pila Mulligan: :)
Calvino Rabeni: one thing I like about the langauge is it is very literal
Calvino Rabeni: place names are descriptive - so Wat Tham Seua means "tiger cave temple"
Pila Mulligan: :)
Calvino Rabeni: It makes it easy to read the maps, if you have a modest vocabulary
Pila Mulligan: I like the image of a tough climb then Shangri La
Calvino Rabeni: LIke on the map - "Talaat Yai" - "Big Market"
Pila Mulligan: ... "a closed karst valley that is lush with the dark green vegetation of a tropical rain forest."
Calvino Rabeni: http://www.1stopkrabi.com/articles/phra_nang/

Calvino Rabeni: The Chat Log is becoming a travelogue :)
Pila Mulligan: wow -- that is beautiful
Pila Mulligan: the photo at thelink
Calvino Rabeni: I've learned to be independent there - e.g. to rent a motorcycle and handle my own transporation sponeaneously
Calvino Rabeni: So I don't worry about the public transportation, etc.
Calvino Rabeni: I've never been to Hawaii
Pila Mulligan: Tham Phra Nang has good surfing during the monsoon they say :)
Calvino Rabeni: I like the monsoon, don't think of it as a season to avoid
Pila Mulligan: even a lot of people living here have never been to Hawai`i :)
Calvino Rabeni: prices get pretty low then too :)
Calvino Rabeni: Ah, the state, not the island :)
Pila Mulligan: I was thinkig of tourist destinatins -- http://www.wayfaring.info/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/6395-1186330286-waikiki_at_dusk_hawaii_preview.jpg

Pila Mulligan: many people see nice hotels and sand and think that's it

Calvino Rabeni: My traveling companion for this trip, lived on a condo on the waikiki strip
Pila Mulligan: :0
Pila Mulligan: there you are :)
Pila Mulligan: as opposed to this -- http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1399/1255068811_9638531b22.jpg?v=0

Calvino Rabeni: One day again, perhaps, Hawaii will be a remote exotic location
Pila Mulligan: some day, long ago in the future
Calvino Rabeni: WIthin my lifetime is a possible future
Pila Mulligan: depends on how long you live :)
Pila Mulligan: mine is predictably not likely to see Hawaii chnage much
Pila Mulligan: toward restoration, that is
Pila Mulligan: it may keep changing toward evelpoment
Pila Mulligan: develop[ment*
Pila Mulligan: my lifetime that is
Calvino Rabeni: I was watching some John Trudell videos recently
Pila Mulligan: but it is happening already some places -- restorration
Pila Mulligan: oh, nice
Pila Mulligan: an inspiring person
Calvino Rabeni: Yes
Calvino Rabeni: Anyway Pila - actually I have to do things like "packing" :)
Calvino Rabeni: The departure is fast approaching
Calvino Rabeni: So I'll take leave - nice chatting with you
Pila Mulligan: have a wonderful time n your travel Cal
Calvino Rabeni: Aloha
Pila Mulligan: I lok ofrward to hearing more
Calvino Rabeni: thx, bye
Pila Mulligan: aloha `oe
--BELL--
Calvino Rabeni: It will be recounted :)
Pila Mulligan: :)
Calvino Rabeni: bye for now
Pila Mulligan: bye for onw