2010.04.26 13:00 - Trust the White rabbit

The Guardian for this meeting was Mickorod Renard.

Darren Islar: hi eden
Eden Haiku: hello Darren, how are you?
Darren Islar: I'm fine, thanks
Darren Islar: you?
Darren Islar: Hi Agatha, Sharon
Agatha Macbeth: Hello Sharon, Edie and Darren :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: Just had to come today, this is Agatha's first official guardian slot, I beleive??
Darren Islar: ah :-)
Agatha Macbeth: Er, no- tomorrow :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh??? laughs
Darren Islar: oh :-)
Agatha Macbeth: Tonite is Mick I think
SophiaSharon Larnia: ok then oops, read the wiki wrong ;p
Agatha Macbeth: Oh we all do that ;-)
Darren Islar: Eden crashed again
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Qt
Agatha Macbeth: Buona sera QT :)
Darren Islar: my viewer is laggy to
Darren Islar: Hi QT
Qt Core: Hi all, 'sera Agatha
Agatha Macbeth: Is she on sparkle again?
Darren Islar: don't know
Darren Islar: but she crashes a lot
Darren Islar: there is another kubus in the air
Darren Islar: Yaku again :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Gaya!
Darren Islar: hi Gaya
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello everyone :)
Agatha Macbeth: Hi Gayabunny :)
Qt Core: hi Gaya
Agatha Macbeth: WB Edie
SophiaSharon Larnia: sitting to calm my thoughts at the moment :)
Darren Islar: hi Mick
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Mick and wb Eden
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Eden and Mick :)
Mickorod Renard: Hi Guys
Agatha Macbeth: Evenin' Mick
Darren Islar: Eden you're okay?
Qt Core: hi mick
Mickorod Renard: Hi
Qt Core: that floating but still cube remind me about this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Billiard_Ball
Darren Islar: hmmmm, I guess not
SophiaSharon Larnia: Qt, interesting and complicated :P
Qt Core: that's why i love Asimov ;-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Mickorod Renard: oh no, not asimov
Mickorod Renard: I tried it years ago
Agatha Macbeth: Old Isaac?
Mickorod Renard: couldnt get into it
Qt Core: what did you tried, many says the shorter pieces are better
Mickorod Renard: how did the meditation class go Darren?
Qt Core: yes, that's a better topic for this place ;-)
Mickorod Renard: I tried a few books,,but I didnt get drawn into them enough
Darren Islar: oh that is next week Mick
Mickorod Renard: ohh,,ok sorry
Darren Islar: np
Darren Islar: I need a little bit of time to arrange a few things
Mickorod Renard: mind you,,it must have been 30 years ago when i tried asimov,,my mind is diferent now
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Ara :)
arabella Ella: Hiya!
Qt Core: hi Ara and Eliza
Darren Islar: and I wanted to give everyone enough time to become part of it
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello arabella :)
Agatha Macbeth: Hello Ara :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Eliza :))
Darren Islar: hi Ara, Eliza
Mickorod Renard: hi Ara,,Eliza
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Eliza :) wb
SophiaSharon Larnia: ~~welcome back~~
Eliza Madrigal: !! ((Gaya)) ((Everyone)))
Agatha Macbeth: And hello Eliza! Welcome back :)))
Mickorod Renard: yeaaaa,,welcome back eliza
Darren Islar: you made it out of SF :-)
arabella Ella: Hiya Eliza great to c u here again!
Eliza Madrigal: Nice to be back! Thanks so much for the nice welcome!
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Solo! :))
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Solo :) long time
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Solobill :)
arabella Ella: Hiya Solo!
Darren Islar: hi Solo
Mickorod Renard: Hi Solo
Qt Core: hi Solo
Agatha Macbeth: Hiya Solo
Solobill Laville: :) Hi friends, old(er) and new!
Agatha Macbeth grins
Darren Islar: /me, seeing Eliza again, is thinking if I posted my log, I think I did
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: hahaha Darren
Eliza Madrigal: Love the new kitty, Sharon :)
Zen Arado: Hi all
Agatha Macbeth: Hi Zen :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Zen :)
Darren Islar: hi zen
SophiaSharon Larnia feels like the gods and goddesses have arrived.
Solobill Laville: Hi Zen
arabella Ella: Hi Zen
Mickorod Renard: yes,,nice pussy Sharon
Agatha Macbeth: I was already here Sharon :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: thanks, had this little tiger for a while now :)
Darren Islar: :-)
Agatha Macbeth said modestly
SophiaSharon Larnia: grins
Zen Arado: good to see Eliza back :)
Agatha Macbeth: Sure is
Eliza Madrigal: Thank you :) Am soooo sleepy, have to apologize, but still thrilled to be here and see everyone
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Agatha Macbeth: Aww
Darren Islar: I can't wait for the first e-mail :-)
Mickorod Renard: have you some jet lag?
SophiaSharon Larnia: no worries Eliza ((hugs))
Eliza Madrigal laughs @ Ag
Zen Arado: are we getting a report of SF goings on?
Agatha Macbeth: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Ohhh, thank you Sharon, that helps
Eliza Madrigal: Mick, yes... or rather am shedding anger at american airlines for their terrible seats for a 5 hr flight :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: nods in support
Mickorod Renard: anger will get you nowhere
Eliza Madrigal grins... indeed true true
Zen Arado: better than volcanic ash though
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Zen Arado: Hi Wol
Wol Euler: hello everyone, sorry I'm late
Darren Islar: hi wol
Qt Core: hi Wol
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Wol :)
Eliza Madrigal: Definitely Zen :(
arabella Ella: Hiya Wol!
Wol Euler: eliza, welcome home :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi (((Wol)))
Agatha Macbeth: Wol! :)
Mickorod Renard: Hi Wol
Solobill Laville: Hello, Wol
Gaya Ethaniel: Mum
Mickorod Renard: nice lil group here tonite
Gaya Ethaniel: hugs
Wol Euler grins and hugs back, and rubs your ears
Agatha Macbeth: Nice big group...
Eliza Madrigal: Very. I feel really happy to be back and here with you all
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Agatha Macbeth: Good to have you back Liz
Zen Arado: Hi Cal:)
arabella Ella: well i think many of us know what itchy fingers we get when we are off line for some days Eliza!
SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Bleu, Hi Calvino
Agatha Macbeth: Hi Cal
Darren Islar: hi Bleu, Cal
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Bleu and Calvino :)
arabella Ella: Hi Bleu, Calvino
Eliza Madrigal: I know we'll talk about retreat stuff this coming weekend... so today just happy to gather a bit :)
Mickorod Renard: Hi Bleu, Cal
Bleu Oleander: hi everyone
Bleu Oleander: hi everyone
Zen Arado: Hi Bleu :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bleu, Cal :)
Agatha Macbeth: And Bleu too!
Bleu Oleander: nice to see you back EM
Wol Euler: hello cal, bleu
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks, Bleu :))
Qt Core: hi Cal, Bleu
Agatha Macbeth: Get more cushions
SophiaSharon Larnia ouches :)
Eliza Madrigal: I noticed lots of activity this week... and neat idea about Yakuzza's session
Agatha Macbeth: An orange UFO
Darren Islar: :-)
Bleu Oleander: Yaku
Eliza Madrigal: Calvino has been transformed in Thailand it seems
Bleu Oleander: Yaku's session was great
Wol Euler nods
Calvino Rabeni: hi everyone
Qt Core: he even got me, a voice hater in voice!
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Eliza Madrigal: !!
Mickorod Renard: what happened in Yaku's?
SophiaSharon Larnia: wow Qt ^^
Eliza Madrigal: Glad to hear that qt, heheh
Bleu Oleander: voice version of PaB
arabella Ella smiles to Qt and wonders about his italian accent!
Eliza Madrigal: It happens to the most resistent of us I think
Agatha Macbeth: Thailand does that to you ;-)
SophiaSharon Larnia wonders to , Ara
Qt Core: Qt blushes too
Eliza Madrigal: I skimmed one of the guardian sessions too... but will really read when eyes stop stinging
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Eliza Madrigal: It was a week of strangeness... hard to kind of move along 'as planned' missing two members... that much I can say for now :)
Eliza Madrigal: but a lovely and very 'alive' city
Mickorod Renard: how do you feel now that the retreat is over Eliza,,a lil lost?
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hm, neat question Mick. I just feel sleepy now... not really processing yet :)
Wol Euler grins.
Eliza Madrigal: Was happy to see the kids, and you guys
SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
Eliza Madrigal: Am still :)
Bleu Oleander: ouch
Bleu Oleander: ouch
Mickorod Renard: ok,,I know I felt a little lost when I returned,,it was short lived and nothing to worry about
Wol Euler: outer row only, cal :)
Eliza Madrigal: Cal has lost his balance while away...?
Darren Islar: Cal is not very 'aware' today :-)
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, thank you Mick. I've thought about that a little...
Zen Arado: slow connection probably
Agatha Macbeth: Not his bank balance hopefully
Calvino Rabeni: very slow :)
Darren Islar: we noticed
Eliza Madrigal: I learned a lot from listening to you guys when you returned from Malta, for sure, Mick
Calvino Rabeni: just a blind monk, sorryh :)
Mickorod Renard: thats the joy of having this SL platform,,you never really leave thiose you are with at the retreat
Darren Islar: dressed up for Queensday cal :-)
arabella Ella: :)
Zen Arado: I'm just mad about saffron
Eliza Madrigal nods @ Mick
Wol Euler: I wonder ... have you been meditating (call it that) at temples in Thailand, Cal?
Agatha Macbeth: Saffron's wild about you :)
Zen Arado: :)
Calvino Rabeni: a little bit yes
Calvino Rabeni: a little bit yes
Wol Euler: how do you find that? is it comfortable? are you welcomed there?
Calvino Rabeni: i just saw a big rat :)
Darren Islar: :-)
Wol Euler: APRPB
Calvino Rabeni: may all beings be hjappy :)
arabella Ella: :)
Agatha Macbeth: I'm always hjappy
Zen Arado: or hippy?
Bleu Oleander: jappy, the h is silent
Wol Euler: :)
Darren Islar: APRPB?
Agatha Macbeth grins @ Bleu
Eliza Madrigal: Solobill.... its a real surprise to see you. I feel like asking YOU for an update....
Zen Arado: used to be the ehippy trail at one time I think
Calvino Rabeni: just please not to eat my backpack :)
--BELL--
Wol Euler: Appreciate the Presence of Rats as a Presentation by Being
Solobill Laville: :)
Darren Islar: wow
arabella Ella: I could not figure out the 'R' there Wol :)
Wol Euler: it's all part of life's rich tapestry, as they say.
Eliza Madrigal: :)
arabella Ella: yes it sure is
arabella Ella: R's and all
Solobill Laville: (things are reall good, Eliza, thanks!)
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Eliza Madrigal: Happy to hear that Bill :)
Zen Arado: been on any zen retreats lately Solo?
pablito Steampunk: namaste
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Pablito :)
Darren Islar: I hope I can remember those letters later on :-)
Wol Euler: hello pablito
Agatha Macbeth: Hello Pab
Wol Euler: have you been here before?
Zen Arado: Hi Pablito
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello pablito :)
Mickorod Renard: Hi pablito
Agatha Macbeth: Yes he has
pablito Steampunk: hello all
Darren Islar: hi Pablito
Wol Euler: ok, ty
Solobill Laville: I had to cancel attending one in March, Zen, unfortunately
pablito Steampunk: thanks for the warm welcome
Bleu Oleander: hi Pabito
Solobill Laville smiles at Pablito
Wol Euler: sorry to hear it, Solo.
Solobill Laville shrugs
Solobill Laville: I had an interview
Zen Arado: ah bad luckI cancelled one last week
Solobill Laville: All good
Wol Euler: ah :) I remember.
Mickorod Renard: great
Solobill Laville: Rats, too bad, Zen
Zen Arado: the teacher arrived late because of the volcanic ash anyway
Wol Euler: heh
Zen Arado: he came from San Francisco
Eliza Madrigal: I'm actually surprised the effects seem to have subsided
Zen Arado: zencenter
Eliza Madrigal: kept hearing about it errupting rarely and then going on and on
Eliza Madrigal: Still, what havok
Darren Islar: or weren't there, that's not clear
Zen Arado: they stopped mentioning it now
Zen Arado: wonder if it is still erupting?
Eliza Madrigal: *havoc
Mickorod Renard: the elections have become more interesting to the media here,,not to the viewers mind
Eliza Madrigal: There was some discussion of whether it would set off another, too...
Darren Islar: and there have been problems lately in Scandinavia
Gaya Ethaniel: It was strange to think some people wanted the volcano to go away ... Earth is not a cement block, it's alive :)
Wol Euler: "Scientists say the volcano is still spewing ash, but the plume is only about 2.5 kilometers (1.5 miles) high -- not high enough to reach jet streams." yahoo news
Eliza Madrigal smiles @ Gaya
Agatha Macbeth: Very true Gaya
Eliza Madrigal: Well, wanted the volcano to be quiet just a little while longer ;-)
Darren Islar: the other volcano is even bigger and can erupt any time
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Eliza Madrigal: I'd better go... really wanted to check in though
Gaya Ethaniel: I know when Katla will errupt next. It's when I will try to go to US again for sure.
Darren Islar: :-)
Eliza Madrigal: Oh! Don't say that Gaya!
Mickorod Renard: bye Eliza,,chill some,,see you soon
Gaya Ethaniel: See you Eliza :)
Solobill Laville: Bye, Eliza, best
Eliza Madrigal: =P~
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
pablito Steampunk: bye Eliza
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Eliza!! get lots of sleep, andpleasant dreams :))
pablito Steampunk: bye Eliza
Darren Islar: bye Eliza, it was good to see you
Zen Arado: bye Eliza
Bleu Oleander: bye Eliza
Wol Euler: bye eliza, sleep well, welcome home
arabella Ella: bye Eliza lovely to see you here again :)
Qt Core: fly under a fake name ;-)
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks everyone ((((((((((((( )))))))))))))))) So nice to see you all
Agatha Macbeth: Take care Liz, good to see you again :)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Qt Core: 'night Eliza
Wol Euler: heheh, good idea Qt
SophiaSharon Larnia sighs, thinking of homecomings
Wol Euler notices Sharon's tiger and smiles
pablito Steampunk: grrr
Agatha Macbeth strokes it
SophiaSharon Larnia: :))
Gaya Ethaniel: I have another meeting. Nice seeing you all again :)
Wol Euler: bye gaya, take care
Darren Islar: bye Gaya
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Gaya so nice to see you!
Agatha Macbeth: C ya Gaya
Mickorod Renard: bye Gaya,,take care
Solobill Laville: Bye, gaya
Qt Core: bye Gaya
pablito Steampunk: bye Gaya
pablito Steampunk: bye Gaya
Zen Arado: bye Gaya
arabella Ella: bye Gaya
Mickorod Renard: I have been hoping to find some time to enjoy pondering more,,but the more chilled I get the more I notice how much demand is on me,,,is this normal and relative?
pablito Steampunk: perfectly normal
Agatha Macbeth: Ponder on enjoyment instead Mick ;-)
Wol Euler: perhaps you are becoming aware of your environment in a different way
Mickorod Renard: this is what I was thinking Wol
SophiaSharon Larnia: nods @ Wol
Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
Calvino Rabeni: GTG, catch taxi, all
Wol Euler: seeing what you had assumed was normal before
Wol Euler: bye cal, enjoy.
Mickorod Renard: so is there actually an escape?
SophiaSharon Larnia: Bye Calvino :)
Zen Arado: bye Cal
Agatha Macbeth: Bye Cal
Calvino Rabeni: bye
Darren Islar: bye Cal
pablito Steampunk: ibye Cal
Mickorod Renard: by Cal
Wol Euler: take the red pill, Mick.
Qt Core: bye Cal, have fun
Mickorod Renard: mmmm ok
Solobill Laville: Bye, Cal
arabella Ella: no ... the blue one
Agatha Macbeth: And don't touch the mirror...
SophiaSharon Larnia: maybe not from what you see Mick, but these things can impact you more lightly
Darren Islar: escape? no Mick :-)
Mickorod Renard: too late
Bleu Oleander: cu everyone
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Bleu
Zen Arado: Bye Bleu
Mickorod Renard: bye |Bue
Qt Core: bye bleu
Agatha Macbeth: Nite Bleu
Solobill Laville: Bye, Bleu
Darren Islar: bye Bleu
Wol Euler: bye bleu, take care
pablito Steampunk: bye bleu
--BELL--
SophiaSharon Larnia: why not touch the mirror, Agatha, what's on the other side??
Darren Islar: becoming aware is the first step
Mickorod Renard: with the enhanced capacity to observe and the less effected by outside events the more one wants more of the good feeling,,then it becomes frustrating again
Agatha Macbeth: Haven't you seen the film then?
SophiaSharon Larnia grins
Agatha Macbeth: Follow the White Rabbit and all that
arabella Ella: i know you will drop the mirror in precisely 10 mins Aga ...
Darren Islar: wanting the good feeling is often getting in the way of ....anythng, including good feelings
SophiaSharon Larnia: nope, ill fix that today lol
Solobill Laville: Mick -> I find that the "chilling" settles the mind from all of the noise, which can make those worries rise to the surface, so to speak....
Agatha Macbeth: Seven years bad luck?
Solobill Laville: The next step is really letting go...which is where the practical side of it comes in
Mickorod Renard: yes,,tghat sounds likely Solo
Zen Arado: nods
Solobill Laville: Not so easy, but, a few minutes a day goes a long way
arabella Ella: are you that superstitious Aga? If i were i would have bad luck for two or three lifetimes
Solobill Laville: Helps to make the worries relative, too
Mickorod Renard: yes,,really letting go,,this is where it becomes a bit misty
Agatha Macbeth: I already have!!!
arabella Ella smiles
Zen Arado: have to go
Zen Arado: bye all
arabella Ella: nite Zen
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Zen :)
Mickorod Renard: bye Zen
Solobill Laville: So long, Zen
Agatha Macbeth: (Through the looking glass )
pablito Steampunk: bye Zen
Darren Islar: bye Zen
Agatha Macbeth: C ya Zen
Darren Islar: letting go ralso means not trying to feel good feelings
Mickorod Renard: yes,,just stay in the moment
Agatha Macbeth: I just noticed Eden never came back
Darren Islar: right Aga
Wol Euler: hello yaku
SophiaSharon Larnia: (if she does, she'll land on Wol)
Agatha Macbeth: Nabend Yaku :)
Darren Islar: hey Yaku
Mickorod Renard: Hi Yaku
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
pablito Steampunk: hallo Yaku
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
pablito Steampunk: hallo Yaku
Qt Core: hi Yaku
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Yaku
arabella Ella: Hiya Yaku
Mickorod Renard: did bert make it home?
Agatha Macbeth: Probably
Wol Euler: yeo
Wol Euler: *yes
SophiaSharon Larnia: he did
Yakuzza Lethecus: he was back in germany last time i talked to him
Yakuzza Lethecus: yes .)
Wol Euler: I spoke to him on Saturday, I think it was
Mickorod Renard: thanks
Agatha Macbeth: Goodbye guiness, hello schnapps
Wol Euler grins.
Darren Islar: it is confusing Mick and talking about it doesn't always make it more clear
SophiaSharon Larnia: like many things
Mickorod Renard: yes,,the letting go sometimes feels like abandoning responsibilities
SophiaSharon Larnia: !! I've had that thought before too, I didnt know what to make of it
Qt Core: time to go, bye all
Wol Euler: buona notte, qt
Yakuzza Lethecus: night qt
Darren Islar: bye QT
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Qt
pablito Steampunk: bye Qt
Mickorod Renard: bye Qt
Agatha Macbeth: Ciao QT
arabella Ella: how does one combine letting go with feeling responsible ... to oneself, to family, to near and dear?
Darren Islar: in what way Mick?
arabella Ella: notte Qt
Mickorod Renard: well,,holding onto a grip, control,,stuff like that seems so woven into daily responsibilities
Mickorod Renard: sure,,i can say I have experienced letting go,,but short lived
SophiaSharon Larnia: caring about others bring you back
Darren Islar: thinking about it, I need to say that my responsibilities feels different to me then years ago
Agatha Macbeth: Probably much the same for everybody Darren
arabella Ella: is that up to you Darren or due to circumstances?
Agatha Macbeth: We all change
Darren Islar: both, but I changed too
Mickorod Renard: I think I may have created the rod for my back by doing so much for others that it seems imposible now to get away from it
Darren Islar: when you're becoming aware it means you can't get around it anymore
Agatha Macbeth nods
Wol Euler nods to mick
Darren Islar: so you need to address it, and actually for the body and mind, that is quite a normal process
Mickorod Renard: I can look at it in a less frustrated way,,and feel pleasant about it,,but letting go long term is radical
Darren Islar: because on every level there need to change something
Mickorod Renard: yes
arabella Ella: Darren ... could we look at this with a practical example perhaps please?
arabella Ella: using an example of responsibility
Mickorod Renard: and with change comes the effect at the interfacing level with the outside world
arabella Ella: which is difficult to drop
Darren Islar: oh that is hard
Darren Islar: in general I'm more relaxed about it
Darren Islar: being more aware of what is happening in the moment, to me, to others
--BELL--
Mickorod Renard: I settle into the more relaxed about it part,,but would like to take it a stage further
Darren Islar: then trying to live up to what you think your responsibilities are
Darren Islar: or what others think they should be
Darren Islar: and there are times I don't succeed in doing that at all, but that is part of it
SophiaSharon Larnia: and that awareness can bring you back? I'm not even sure, from where, is...
Solobill Laville: Mick, just a thought, but you may be getting tangled on the idea of "contemplating" itself...
Mickorod Renard: I enjoy being used by those around me , especially if they receive pleasure from that,,but guess my ego desires recognition for my deeds
Solobill Laville: In other words, the thinking, is itself a bit of a roadblock to get "beyond the worries"
Darren Islar: :-)
Wol Euler: could you say "the expression you are looking for is 'thank you'?" :)
Darren Islar: but that is where practice comes in
Mickorod Renard: yes,,thinking is my big problem
Darren Islar: hmm, nice thought
Agatha Macbeth: Mine too Mick :)
Mickorod Renard: :)
Solobill Laville: "the disease of humanity" someone famous has said ;)
pablito Steampunk: lol
Mickorod Renard: I dont want to ask for thanks,,it seems selfish
Darren Islar: yu know, when you become more aware it only means you see things more clearly, nothing more
Solobill Laville: Well, I must depart, and thank you, Mick!
Mickorod Renard: yes,,seeing clearly can bring with it some rude awakenings
Wol Euler: goodnight, solo, take care
Mickorod Renard: bye Solo,,thanks
Darren Islar: yes
Agatha Macbeth: Bye bill
pablito Steampunk: bye Solobill
Solobill Laville: Bye, all
arabella Ella: bye Solo
Darren Islar: and how to deal with that is the next question
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Solobill!
Darren Islar: not easy to adress
Mickorod Renard: he he
Darren Islar: it is not a quick fix I'm afraid
Mickorod Renard: do you think we trust each other more since we meet and chat regularly here on SL?
Wol Euler thinks that looking for quick fixes is a large part of the reason the world is in such a mess
SophiaSharon Larnia: I trust you guys more but << eyeballs the recorder>> ^^
Mickorod Renard: or do you think trust is not an issue cos we dont know each other?
Darren Islar: right Wol
Mickorod Renard: yes wol
Agatha Macbeth: 'The only thing you can do easily is be wrong, and that's hardly worth the effort'
arabella Ella looks at the recorder too ... smile
Mickorod Renard: thats why people opt for that method Ags
Agatha Macbeth: Mm
Wol Euler: yes, mick, I agree about trusting more after meeting. But I had a very high degree of trust anyway, before Malta
Agatha Macbeth: Unfortunately
Wol Euler: that only confirmed what I already thought about you all.
Mickorod Renard: yes me too Wol
Mickorod Renard: but I meant the trust building up on just SL meetings,,not rl retreats
Wol Euler: I'm not sure I understand you, then.
Mickorod Renard: or is it not an issue of trust but more an issue of anymonity
Agatha Macbeth: Anymonity?
Mickorod Renard: or however its spelt
Mickorod Renard: ty
Wol Euler: oh, but we aren't anonymous.
Wol Euler: IMHO
Mickorod Renard: :)
Wol Euler: I think we know each other quite well
Wol Euler: but what we know is a person, not its "physical" identity
Darren Islar: true, but somehow 'being' an avatar seems to work a bit different
pablito Steampunk: i think we are an anomaly
Agatha Macbeth: How so darren?
Mickorod Renard: we do,,but we may also alow our defences to drop due to the certain anonymousity
Mickorod Renard: :)
Agatha Macbeth: Animosity??
Mickorod Renard: ta
Agatha Macbeth scratches her head
Darren Islar: I don't now, maybe it is what wol says: identity
Yakuzza Lethecus: So i build up trust very fast, we have no direct economic relation to each other and i don't fear that somebody can gossip about me when he's 6k miles away or alike
Wol Euler nods
Wol Euler: it's the "strangers on a train" effect
Darren Islar: I'm not sure, didn't figure it out completely
Agatha Macbeth: 'Identity is the crisis can't you see'
Mickorod Renard: yes,,yaku has what I meant
Agatha Macbeth: X-ray Spex
Agatha Macbeth: circa 1978
Wol Euler: you can talk *very* openly with somebody who doesn't know you and never will, in RL
SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
Mickorod Renard: would we have the same trust with people we meet in the pub?
Yakuzza Lethecus: i wouldn't in our villages pub :)
Wol Euler: it could develop into that, yes. But would be slower than here, I think
Darren Islar: I don;t know, I think getting to know each other in a way gets faster then in RL
Yakuzza Lethecus: i can try ideas better and try to elaborate upon ideas before i bring them up in RL
Wol Euler: because there is so much irrelevant physicality that gets in the way of knowing each other, in RL
--BELL--
Agatha Macbeth: Hokey cokey peeps, my presence is required elsewhere I'm afraid. Take care
Yakuzza Lethecus: night aga
Wol Euler: bye agatha, take care
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Agatha!
pablito Steampunk: bye agatha
Mickorod Renard: nite Aga
pablito Steampunk: bye agatha
arabella Ella: nite Aga!
Darren Islar: nite Aga
Darren Islar: true Wol
Darren Islar: I experienced that too
Darren Islar: but need to go now
Mickorod Renard: also,,I would think that some of us may not be assertive enough in rl to voice oppinions in a public discussion
Darren Islar: have a tp
Wol Euler: bye darren, take care
Mickorod Renard: bye Darren
Darren Islar: bye all
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye darren
Mickorod Renard: thanks
Wol Euler nods to mick
arabella Ella: i think chat allows us to think first and we dont risk emmbarrasement in the same way here as we do in RL
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye all, have to log off and join the 'real' world lol
Wol Euler: awwww
Mickorod Renard: and the order of chat can be out of sync but still relevent
pablito Steampunk: Bye Sophia
SophiaSharon Larnia: whatever that is
Yakuzza Lethecus: for me it's easier to freely associate when i am in voice, it isn't logged but sure only works in small groups
Wol Euler: bye sharon, take care.
Mickorod Renard: bye Sophia
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye slsl
Mickorod Renard: and sophia's pussy
SophiaSharon Larnia: waves
SophiaSharon Larnia: grins
arabella Ella: bye SSL
Mickorod Renard: voice does dominate the moment though,,excluding othrers
Wol Euler nods.
arabella Ella: with voice people can talk over each other
Wol Euler: voice reintroduces the presssure of real-time, which typed chat alleviates
Mickorod Renard: but strands can be lost
pablito Steampunk: frequency overload
Yakuzza Lethecus: hehe, we could also chat over each other :)
Wol Euler: oh, interesting!
Wol Euler: there is no interrupting here.
Wol Euler: the conversation just branches
Mickorod Renard: exactly
Wol Euler: whereas in RL and in voice, interruption occurs: Conversation reroutes instead of branching
Wol Euler: hadn't thought of that before. Good point, ara.
Mickorod Renard: we also assume during chat that our discourse is friendly
arabella Ella: :)
Mickorod Renard: ok guys,,i need to get home
Wol Euler: ?
Wol Euler: where are you, mick?
Mickorod Renard: I meant sl home
Wol Euler: ah :)
Mickorod Renard: sorry
Wol Euler: heheheh
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye mick
Wol Euler: 'night mick, take care.
pablito Steampunk: bye mick
Yakuzza Lethecus: night everyone
Mickorod Renard: got a whole load of sl animals to feed
Wol Euler: :)
Mickorod Renard: nite nite all,,thanks for the chat
Wol Euler: responsibility again :)
Mickorod Renard: :)
Wol Euler: hello michele
arabella Ella: Hiya Michele
pablito Steampunk: hello Michele
Wol Euler: have you been here before?
arabella Ella: nite mick
Michele Idlemind: Hey
Mickorod Renard: Hi Michele
Michele Idlemind: Just came to visit :)
Wol Euler: yes, that's fine, but have you been here before? :)
Michele Idlemind: No ive never been here.
Michele Idlemind: relaxing atmosphere :)
Mickorod Renard: he is new,,shall i hand a card out?
Wol Euler: ok, then I'll give you a notecard about hte group
Wol Euler: Mick, get home to your hungry animals :)
Mickorod Renard: ok,,thanks
Mickorod Renard: c u around Michele
Michele Idlemind: Bye cu
Michele Idlemind: :)
Michele Idlemind: take care
pablito Steampunk: thanks for the autologging
Wol Euler: this is the tail end of a meeting of a meditation group called Play as Being, Michele
Wol Euler: we meet four times a day to discuss practices and matters arising
Michele Idlemind: oh
Michele Idlemind: interesting
arabella Ella: we were discussing trust
arabella Ella: and how we build trust on SL especially here where many of us meet regularly
Wol Euler nods.
pablito Steampunk: i haven't been here for a while
Michele Idlemind: interesting
arabella Ella: i think it is interesting to think about whether we trust people here in the same way we do in RL ... or differently ... and if so why?
Wol Euler: Michele, we record these meetings and publish them on our website. May we have your permissoin to include your name and comments?
arabella Ella: altho i guess trust builds up over time here ... and maybe sometimes intuitively
Michele Idlemind: no problem
Wol Euler: ty
--BELL--
pablito Steampunk: yes, i think it depend on the level of disscussion bewteen ppl that determines the level of trust
arabella Ella: for me it is consistency over time ... consistency of responses i mean
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: in both worlds :)
pablito Steampunk: yes, consistency of behaviour
Wol Euler: though as you said, it also happens that one meets people whom one trusts (or thoroughly distrusts) instantly.
arabella Ella: i must admit though that over time i (hope) i have learnt to not trust people due to their avi appearance as it is so often deceptive ... nice avis could be nasty people
arabella Ella: yes Wol i believe in intuition a lot
Wol Euler: much like RL in that respect, ara.
arabella Ella: yes but ... as i think i said before ... with much less fear of embarrasement
arabella Ella: less fear of losing face
Wol Euler: though appearance plays a part there too, for me. I am more likely to trust people who have taken the time to develop a well-defined avatar
pablito Steampunk: who do you feel you trust most at this very moment?
Wol Euler: than somebody wearing a default newbie body
Wol Euler: because they've been here longer, they have an investment in SL and in their avatar self here.
Wol Euler: they are not likely to throw that away by turning into a griefer
arabella Ella: i dunno Wol ... as some very well defined avatars have (for me)) proved to be very disappointing people
Wol Euler nods. Also true.
arabella Ella: and altho perhaps like you i think one should develop a 'look' yet there are quite a few very nice people around who still use their newbie avis
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: ok, you have shot down my suggestion
arabella Ella: i did not mean to shoot it down Wol
arabella Ella: just to argue for both sides
Wol Euler grins and shakes her head
arabella Ella: keeping in mind some SL disappointments i experienced :)
Wol Euler: no, you were right, I spoke without thinking it through
Michele Idlemind: I have to get going
Wol Euler: bye michele, take care. We meet at 1am, 7am, 1pm, 7pm, feel free to drop by
pablito Steampunk: bye Michele
Michele Idlemind: Thanks
Michele Idlemind: Byee
arabella Ella: bye Michele
pablito Steampunk: can i ask a question
Wol Euler: sure
pablito Steampunk: whats been you biggest sl disappointment?
Wol Euler: huh
Wol Euler: hmmm
pablito Steampunk: if any lol
arabella Ella: ah Pablito there are so many ... and so many good times too
arabella Ella: and they are not stuff i would like to be logged :)
Wol Euler: I can't think of anything at all, off the top of my head
pablito Steampunk: thats good news
Wol Euler: well, actually, yes I can. I fell in love here, with somebody who left SL
arabella Ella: owwwwwww Wol
Wol Euler: but I'm not sure that "disappointment" is quite the right word for that
pablito Steampunk: broken heart experience?
Wol Euler: very
arabella Ella: 'it's complicated'?
Wol Euler: broke, fell off the table, cat dragged it into the corner
pablito Steampunk: so you may of perfectly answered my question
pablito Steampunk: the biggest disappointment sl can bring to you is a broken heart BEWARE
--BELL--
arabella Ella whispers ... i must go now nite all!
Wol Euler: bye ara
pablito Steampunk: bye aral
pablito Steampunk: alot attended today
Wol Euler: yes, it is rarely so full
pablito Steampunk: yes, last time i came, there were only about 5 or 6
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: the 1am sessions are often silent (nobody but the guardian)
Wol Euler: what about you, pablito? your biggest disappointment?
pablito Steampunk: who thought up of this brillaint idea of a play at being setup?
pablito Steampunk: the layout is perfect
Wol Euler: the playgoda was built by Storm Nordwind, who did most of the landscaping and building in our group lands
Wol Euler: and some other places nearby too
pablito Steampunk: well done to Storm
Wol Euler: the Kwan Yin sanctuary, for example
pablito Steampunk: i like the circle effect
Wol Euler nods.
pablito Steampunk: i suppose my biggest disappointment, is that sense of a surrogate reality sense at time, y'know?
Wol Euler: I'm not sure I do, what do you mean?
pablito Steampunk: but it is;t that big when i think about that anyway
pablito Steampunk: well you know what surrogate means?
Wol Euler: mmhmm
pablito Steampunk: like these idealised sims we can wander
Wol Euler: so the perfection of SL is disappointing?
Wol Euler: or perhaps "perfection" :)
pablito Steampunk: well your right there is a perfection
pablito Steampunk: but it is created under the facade of 0's and 1'
pablito Steampunk: a digital facade
Wol Euler: well :)
pablito Steampunk: but its all excelllent information
pablito Steampunk: :))
Wol Euler: my world is thoroughly digital. I work on computers, I use e-mail rather than writing letters, and I listen to CDs instead of playing guitar myself
Wol Euler: before computers, it was mediated by print.
pablito Steampunk: yes
Wol Euler: to me the digital-ness of SL (or of CDs, or of e-mail) is just a fact, like saying that people are made of blood and muscle
Wol Euler: it's true but it is not relevant (to me)
Wol Euler: when I think about you, who you are, I don't think about the calcium in your bones
Wol Euler: though you would be a differnt "you" without them
pablito Steampunk: lol true
pablito Steampunk: so do you understand my slight surrogate qualm
Wol Euler: yes, I can see where it arises, and I can certainly believe that it causes you unease
pablito Steampunk: well lets say a little
pablito Steampunk: but it has its positives
Wol Euler: mmhmm
pablito Steampunk: i like the space i get from sl
pablito Steampunk: and the ease of moving in and out of situations
Wol Euler nods
Wol Euler: there are many things in SL that I wish would apply to RL
Wol Euler: profiles, for example :)
Wol Euler: the mute button
pablito Steampunk: haha
pablito Steampunk: yes, in work, i wish i had a mute button at times lol
Wol Euler: mmhmm
--BELL--
pablito Steampunk: being here is like being BRUCE ALMIGHTY
Wol Euler: Being (points to the capital letter) is ... everything. Bruce is an aspect of Being
Wol Euler: SL avatar is to RL typist, as RL typist is to Being
Wol Euler: we are Being's avatars
pablito Steampunk: Be at Avatars
Wol Euler: mmhmm
pablito Steampunk: the beats
pablito Steampunk: lol
pablito Steampunk: i can see many interesting thoughts arise here
Wol Euler nods and smiles. Indeed.
pablito Steampunk: Play as Being is like some sort of strange attractor for exquisite discussions
Wol Euler: :)
Wol Euler: well, SL itself is a social concentrator
Wol Euler: it brings together people like us
Wol Euler: whereas we are pretty hard to find in RL
pablito Steampunk: yes, but certain sims filter certain consciousnesses over
pablito Steampunk: a natural attractor
Wol Euler: oh, sure, it's not all Play as Being here :)
Wol Euler: there are plenty of places where the standard of discussion matches the average quality of RL television
Wol Euler: i.e. rock-bottom
pablito Steampunk: yes
pablito Steampunk: the extremes are here
pablito Steampunk: polarizations
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Wol Euler: oh wow, all of Jack Kerouac's books are currently in print. (I went off to wikipedia when you said "Beats" :)
Wol Euler: do you know how few living authors can say that?
pablito Steampunk: lol
Wol Euler: it's amazing.
pablito Steampunk: I loved readin On the Road
pablito Steampunk: the perfect travel log
Wol Euler smiles and nods.
pablito Steampunk: lol
Wol Euler: I should try to get that in the library, read it again.
pablito Steampunk: yes, its rereadable
pablito Steampunk: DEAN MORIETY
pablito Steampunk: have you heard of the Holographic Universe concept?
Wol Euler: yes, I have to read this again.
Wol Euler: no, new to me.
pablito Steampunk: i don't normally read much physics, but this one caught my eye
pablito Steampunk: its sounds so simple
pablito Steampunk: it basically states that the universe is a hologram
Wol Euler raises an eyebrow.
pablito Steampunk: i recommend a little research
Wol Euler is reading wikipedia
pablito Steampunk: its perfectly mixes with the concepts of the east, where all is one, and not separte
pablito Steampunk: wholeness
pablito Steampunk: y'know
pablito Steampunk: David Bohm the theoretical physicist was a big proponent of the concept
Wol Euler: fascinating, though I'm not sure that I understand it
--BELL--
pablito Steampunk: of course, at first glance, one should never beleive or fall blindly into it
pablito Steampunk: it takes time and forethought and comparison etcetera
pablito Steampunk: Physicists are forever tryinf to explain the universe
Wol Euler: poets and religious leaders too :)
pablito Steampunk: yes
pablito Steampunk: all in their own way
pablito Steampunk: very true
Wol Euler: mmhmm
pablito Steampunk: if i ask myself sincerely what i know to be true, that it is really nothing
pablito Steampunk: its all a maybe really
Wol Euler nods.
pablito Steampunk: so its a game of looking for the best pattern perhaps
Wol Euler: or learning ot live with uncertainty :)
pablito Steampunk: yes, thats the fuel for wonder
Wol Euler stifles a yawn. I'm sorry Pablito, it's late for me, I must get to bed
Wol Euler: it was nice talking to you.
pablito Steampunk: yes, me too