2010.04.20 01:00 - the factness of facts

The Guardian for this meeting was Wester Kiranov. The comments are by Wester Kiranov.

I had a good conversation with Bertram Jacobus, starting with the pros and cons of computer technology and moving on to the hardness of facts.

Wester Kiranov: hi bert
Bertram Jacobus: good morning wester :-)
Bertram Jacobus: i'm on with a very unstable inet connection, so may be that i can crash
Wester Kiranov: understood
Bertram Jacobus: may I ask (again?) where you are from ?
Wester Kiranov: I'm from the Netherlands. remind me where you are from
Bertram Jacobus: germany, cologne (koeln)
Bertram Jacobus: now I made a note in your profile, so I'll know next time :-)
Bertram Jacobus: very helpful
Wester Kiranov: good idea - I did the same with you
Bertram Jacobus: hehe - would be fine if we had that for rl, too ;-)
Wester Kiranov: yeah, instead of having to drag all those notebooks around all the time ;-)
Bertram Jacobus: yess ! whereas - i don't have such notebooks . hm . ;-)
Wester Kiranov: it is one of those thing you can imagine being invented in the next 10-20 years
Wester Kiranov: well - it is invented now, we just need to work out the technicalities
Bertram Jacobus: but how should that work ?
Wester Kiranov: some small computer - well those exist. face recognition, that would probably be the hard part. Maybe it could concentrate on the irises or something like that
Wester Kiranov: and then the face is recognized and it automatically goes to the right person
Bertram Jacobus: hm. so we face everybody to our little computers, then ? ;-)
Wester Kiranov: finds all notes, all other information.
Wester Kiranov: but then, now I write it down, it sounds quite Big Brotherish
Bertram Jacobus: lol. i have np with that
Bertram Jacobus: know about the possibilities of misusing it
Bertram Jacobus: but as a fact i don't mind it so much
--BELL--
Bertram Jacobus: but "only" - or again - i have no idea how to let my little computer recognize people then : would i hold it then always in direction to their faces ? may be would look also a bit weird, no ?
Wester Kiranov: I think we will get used to doing that.
Wester Kiranov: And maybe they will be so sensitive we don't need to
Bertram Jacobus: that would be fine - okay - may be except of the fears of big brother - hm ...
Wester Kiranov: I don't think we are going to stop those things being invented but we might think carefully about what it all might mean to our personal lives - apart from the fun parts
Bertram Jacobus: I see two so to say big directions to handle such : being afraid or taking it easy. which doesn't mean not to care about
Wester Kiranov: I agree being afraid is not going to help
Wester Kiranov: that will just make us try to ignore problems
Bertram Jacobus: yess ! and for example, we both seem to be aware of this - and always there are the two sides of relative things, the so called good one and the so called bad one
Bertram Jacobus: and i find the bad activities with such stuff and also in general not so - interesting. prefer to strengthen the good sides and aspects ...
Bertram Jacobus: to live them and to let them grow
Bertram Jacobus: as to use our profiles here ... ;-)
Bertram Jacobus: and notes in it :-)
Wester Kiranov: but the so-called good and the so-called bad sides can't be separated. they make up the whole together. we should stay aware of the whole
Bertram Jacobus: yes. i feel very often myself misunderstood at this topic
Bertram Jacobus: i find it natural that there are always those two sides but
Bertram Jacobus: although being aware as much as possible i would say that it may be a matter of view :
Bertram Jacobus: whether it may not be possible perhaps to see more and more all in a positive light
Bertram Jacobus: like :
Bertram Jacobus: use the stones on your path to fill the wholes in it
Bertram Jacobus: holes
Wester Kiranov: nice typo :)
Bertram Jacobus: hehe. yess (laughs)
--BELL--
Bertram Jacobus: so - what is more important : the view, the perspective or the so called things or facts ?
Wester Kiranov: all those words are very ambiguous
Bertram Jacobus: ambigous ? i don't find that word in my dictionary, sry (?)
Wester Kiranov: i just realized how much i still feel i have to stay informed of everything, even though I know it's totally impossible
Wester Kiranov: having two or more sides (might have misspelled, easier to explain than to look up)
Bertram Jacobus: ah. i know now what you mean, ty !
Bertram Jacobus: ambivalent
Wester Kiranov: there's a subtle difference between those words but it'll be ok for now
Bertram Jacobus: but - can't you compare view and facts and guess what could be "more important" ?
Bertram Jacobus: besides : my parents house was a journalistic one so I know very well what you are talking about regarding to "wanting to be informed about everything" (!) ...
Wester Kiranov: the facts arise from the view. but occasionally the view is influenced by the facts
Bertram Jacobus: and I have that from there very deep so to say in my body
Wester Kiranov: but I'm sure many people think the view arises from the facts
Bertram Jacobus: ah - yes ! i don't see this mecanism clearly
Bertram Jacobus: it's still hidden to me (!)
Bertram Jacobus: facts seem so - strong to me
Wester Kiranov: maybe we have a different view of views
Bertram Jacobus: the ashcloud at the moment for example - can't imagine that it arose from my view (?)
Wester Kiranov: I am not arguing that all facts are subjective or anything like that
Bertram Jacobus: but what did you mean then with facts arise from the view ?
Wester Kiranov: there is some kind of underlying world - but it is so multifacetted we can see it in millions of different ways, many of them incompatible
Wester Kiranov: you choose to see certain facts, ignore others completely, colour some good and some bad
Bertram Jacobus: I know what you mean now
Bertram Jacobus: but isn't all principally compatible ? only missing sometimes the links ? i mean, that we don't see them (?)
Wester Kiranov: you have a certain view and you fit the ashcloud in
Wester Kiranov: the world is compatible with itself, but I'm not completely sure all possible facts are compatible with each other
Bertram Jacobus: yes. but there are teachings and people who say, everything (!) would be caused of the mind, view, spirit or how ever we want to name that
Wester Kiranov: I think those teachings usually have a broader view of Mind than we have
--BELL--
Bertram Jacobus: but don't we search for that broader view ?
Wester Kiranov: yes, and as the view expands, the factness of facts diminishes
Wester Kiranov: they are still there, but not as 'hard' as they used to be
Bertram Jacobus: very nicely said wester ! :-)
Wester Kiranov: ty :-)
Bertram Jacobus: ok - i'll leave - tyvm for the talk - and may all beings be happy, plz
Wester Kiranov: cu around then. bye
Wester Kiranov: and thank you too :-)
Bertram Jacobus: :-))