2010.04.07 13:00 - On Creativity

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Calvino Rabeni. The comments are by Calvino Rabeni.

    Darren Islar: hey "Fed"
    Calvino Rabeni: Derren hello!
    Darren Islar: hi :-)
    Darren Islar: it is you and me again
    Darren Islar: hi Vajra
    Calvino Rabeni: Calvino Rabeni looks around at an unexpectedly vacant meeting place
    Darren Islar: well at least you found me, there was nobody when I came in
    Darren Islar: looked at the clock
    Darren Islar: hi Vajra
    Calvino Rabeni: Hello
    Darren Islar: Fonz should be here als CoG
    Darren Islar: but lately he had a lot of problems to get on
    Darren Islar: log on
    Darren Islar: is this the first time you are here Vajra?
    Vajra Raymaker: No, Darren. I have been here in the past a couple of times
    Darren Islar: ok, welcome back :-)
    Vajra Raymaker: But feel free to explain to me about how it works, any theme etc. " )
    Vajra Raymaker: : )
    Vajra Raymaker: I can't be on long though... must get in to work
    Vajra Raymaker: ty
    Darren Islar: well, the most important thing is that we are recording
    Darren Islar: the session
    Darren Islar: and place it on the website
    Darren Islar: is that a problem to you?
    Vajra Raymaker: no... not worried about it
    Darren Islar: ok thanks
    Darren Islar: hi Mick
    Mickorod Renard: hi guys
    Vajra Raymaker: What I don't understand though, is the purpose for the recordings
    Vajra Raymaker: And who would own the copyright
    Darren Islar: and looking at your name, I should say: lean back and just enjoy :-)
    Vajra Raymaker: :)
    Darren Islar: hopefully we will have a good discussion tonight
    Darren Islar: hi Ara
    arabella Ella: Hiya!
    Mickorod Renard: hiyas
    Vajra Raymaker: Hi Arabella
    Mickorod Renard: hi zon
    Zon Quar: hello enlighentend ones
    Darren Islar: hi Zon
    arabella Ella: Hiya Zon
    Vajra Raymaker: greetings
    arabella Ella: Hi Zon (chat lag?)
    Zon Quar: lag ?
    Darren Islar: so there seems to be no CoG today, but maybe want to share something
    Darren Islar: myabe somebody wants to sare something
    Zon Quar: didnt u get my hello
    arabella Ella: well I must admit I am here but also watching the football match on TV
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, hello enlightened one!
    arabella Ella: Man Utd vs Bayern Munich
    Darren Islar: well, I did
    Zon Quar: ah good
    Zon Quar: my text is coming late
    Mickorod Renard: Darren,,what did u ?
    arabella Ella: yes Zon and mine too
    Darren Islar: see your hello
    Mickorod Renard: ohh
    Mickorod Renard: ok
    Zon Quar: CoG ?
    Darren Islar: yes it is Fonzes nite
    Darren Islar: but he doesn't seem to be here
    Darren Islar: and as Darren I'm afraid I can't claim the log
    Zon Quar: u mean the Kira meeting ?
    arabella Ella: OH YES Fefonz is not here and it is Wed
    arabella Ella: Fef is Guardian on Wednesdays
    Darren Islar: no this meeting
    Mickorod Renard: i will claim log if there is a problem
    Darren Islar: thans Cal
    Mickorod Renard: ohh,,great Cal
    Darren Islar has a wonderful excuse not to claim the log :-)
    arabella Ella: Anyone got any topics to discuss?
    arabella Ella: to share?
    arabella Ella: to gripe?
    Zon Quar: creativity ?
    arabella Ella: to reflect or ponder?
    Calvino Rabeni: I like words, as a time machine
    Zon Quar: what is it ? creativity
    Mickorod Renard: hi wol
    arabella Ella: hey Zon you read my mind?
    Darren Islar: hi Wol
    Calvino Rabeni: If you study the origin of words, and their change in meaning, it is like looking back in a cultural time machine
    Mickorod Renard: was that read or read Ara?
    Wol Euler: hello everyone, sorry I'm late
    Vajra Raymaker: two of my favorite topics, creativity and language
    arabella Ella: 'you are reading my mind'
    arabella Ella: Hiya Wol
    Wol Euler giggles at Calvino and Darren's tags.
    Darren Islar: everyone was :-)
    Zon Quar: so does anyone want to give a first shot
    Zon Quar: what is crativity
    Darren Islar suddenly sees Cal's tag and smiles too
    Vajra Raymaker: riding the wave? Being yourself when yourself is healthy and feeling good?
    Calvino Rabeni: and how can words help creativity...
    Darren Islar: difficult question Zon
    arabella Ella: well to begin with one can see creativity either as a skill or as an attribute
    Zon Quar: when is a painting creative art and when just a outlet of energy
    arabella Ella: one can learn methods to come up with new ideas
    Wol Euler: perhaps it's a matter of intention.
    Calvino Rabeni: Perhaps when the energy is creative energy
    arabella Ella: and everyone has the potential to improve their creativity
    Mickorod Renard: can one be over creative?
    Darren Islar: I should say creativity is the outcome of different 'parts' in ourselves that work together
    arabella Ella: besides, you can have artistic creativity or creativity in organisations or in innovations
    Darren Islar: using a certain kind of concentration that can make that happen
    Calvino Rabeni: That is an important aspect of it Darren
    Darren Islar: that concentration makes sure you're not overcreative or not creative enough
    Calvino Rabeni: The attention, and the parts working together
    arabella Ella: altho Darren creative ideas can also occur when our brain is in the incubation phase and for example when on vacation and all relaxed
    Zon Quar: so war tacticts is also creativity
    Calvino Rabeni: A creative urge ? Some underlying motivation or desire? These seem important too.
    Darren Islar: sometimes we feel that as 'flow'
    Darren Islar: being in the 'flow'
    Darren Islar: maybe it depends on what you call being creative
    Calvino Rabeni: Creativity and flow may come together, but don't seem like the same thing
    Vajra Raymaker: I think that people are creative with no effort when left alone and in good environments ideal for a human being, it's niche
    Darren Islar: you can be creative by actually make something
    Vajra Raymaker: its*
    Calvino Rabeni: Creativity has a sense of bringing new things into existence
    Darren Islar: but you can also be creative by having a thought
    Darren Islar: by doing and action
    Calvino Rabeni: But that creates a "new" knowledge
    Zon Quar: yes i think newness is a key
    Darren Islar: by making a joke at just the right time
    Calvino Rabeni: evein if it is a thought not expressed physically
    Vajra Raymaker: oh, Darren! That is such a good example
    Wol Euler nods.
    Zon Quar: Creativity is a mental process involving the discovery of new ideas or concepts, or new associations of the existing ideas or concepts, fueled by the process of either conscious or unconscious insight.
    Zon Quar: from Wiki
    Zon Quar: newness is there
    Wol Euler: hmmmm
    Darren Islar: wellI think every situation creates new things
    Zon Quar: and mental process
    Darren Islar: every situation is new
    Wol Euler: that sounds like something that happens, rather than something one does.
    Vajra Raymaker: have to go; sorry, bye all
    Darren Islar: bye Vajra
    Calvino Rabeni: Bye!
    Darren Islar: good point Wol
    Mickorod Renard: bye vejra
    Zon Quar: and it says there must be an idea
    Wol Euler: bye vajra, take care
    Zon Quar: a new idea
    Zon Quar: a bit too shallow definition
    Calvino Rabeni: Well, suppose ideas get "stale" - then it might be a use of creativity to "freshen them up" even if they are not new
    Mickorod Renard: would a psychopath be described as having an over creative mind?
    Calvino Rabeni: Then they have new potentialities and power
    Wol Euler: good question, mick.
    Zon Quar: a new way to murder
    Wol Euler: I fear that the answer could well be "yes"
    Zon Quar: hm
    arabella Ella: well definitions of creativity often bring in both originality and positive value
    Calvino Rabeni: No, my psychopath friends complain that they have a one-track mind, unless they feel some inspiration :)
    arabella Ella: and positive value would eliminate psychopaths
    Zon Quar: can destructivness be creative
    arabella Ella: so it all depends on your definition ... and there are plenty
    Darren Islar: to me creativity can be both positive as negative
    Calvino Rabeni: Removal - destruction - makes room for the new
    Mickorod Renard: I used to create some art,,and at one stage it included setting fire to it,,the remains were the art
    Darren Islar: creativity describes the process to me
    Darren Islar: nice point Cal
    Calvino Rabeni: Isn't that what "dropping" is - destruction or deconstruction, allowing possibility?
    Zon Quar: i think creativity is life process itself in away
    Darren Islar: so there is always something to drop before something new appears
    Calvino Rabeni: Creativity is "easier" after dropping?
    arabella Ella: depends Calvino - what about creative ways of torturing a person or a fly or a cat ... i would eliminate anything destructive from the concept of creativity
    Calvino Rabeni: The space has been cleared
    Wol Euler: emotionally yes, but on what basis?
    Darren Islar: by dropping you 'create' openess
    Calvino Rabeni: Leaving values aside, it's neccessary for forms to disappear
    Wol Euler: basis for eliminating, I mean.
    Mickorod Renard: eliminate? that has a psychopath ring to it
    arabella Ella: :)
    arabella Ella: my definition of creativity includes originality, surprise and positive value (@Wol)
    Zon Quar: i see life is creative..the way it organises itself into new forms, species and cultures; so crativity is not limited to individuals
    Wol Euler: indeed, ara, and which part of htat excludes cruelty? :)
    Mickorod Renard: chaos theory?
    Calvino Rabeni: @ara, that would be a good definition of "information" according to some sources
    Zon Quar: he way cosmos arises from chaos
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    arabella Ella: @Cal ... why should information include originality and surprise?
    Darren Islar: I guess because it make information work ?
    Calvino Rabeni: It is something the definers are attached to - the idea that if you already have knowledge, then a message that restates something is not new "information" to you
    arabella Ella: @ Wol ... IMHO positive value excludes cruelty to other creatures
    Mickorod Renard: maybe thats the key,,by dropping we invite the natural way of creativity from non control
    Calvino Rabeni: So it has to be new / unknown / presumably unexpected
    Calvino Rabeni: to qualify as information
    Calvino Rabeni: Although actually I don't subscribe to that definition, but it is popular
    arabella Ella: it is new to me as a definition of information
    Darren Islar: I agree Cal
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi All.... brb
    Zon Quar: making new forms appear ?
    arabella Ella: information could simply be a train or bus schedule
    Zon Quar: or helping
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Eliza
    Darren Islar: because it makes information to be a creative process always
    Calvino Rabeni: Creativity seems to do that - make new forms appear
    Zon Quar: and that might require sestruction too
    Mickorod Renard: a form of growth?
    Zon Quar: to destroy old house
    Zon Quar: to buid a new one
    Calvino Rabeni: But the process of using creativity - would have to include its opposite, getting rid of things, I would say
    Calvino Rabeni: Right zon
    Calvino Rabeni: Maybe I shouldn't say "right" but "agree"?
    Darren Islar is pondering about a 'form' of growth
    Mickorod Renard: its interesting that we like new things and new experiences,,yet, in a work place we often fight change
    Wol Euler: hello eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: Hello Wol :)
    Zon Quar: so as a whole it is renewal
    arabella Ella: Hiya Eliza
    Darren Islar: ah your back, he eliza
    Zon Quar: hi eliza ã‹¡
    Wol Euler: we like "new" but we don't much like "change" :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hiya Arabella :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Darren, and Zon, and Cal and Mick
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Darren Islar: we don't like dropping either
    Calvino Rabeni: Well "change" is the word used to describe the new that we dislike :)
    Darren Islar: not always at least
    Darren Islar: or the new we fear
    Calvino Rabeni: Have you ever "dropped" something, then regretted it?
    Darren Islar: not knowing if we re going to like it or not
    Mickorod Renard: maybe a girlfriend
    Darren Islar: ha! @Dal
    Darren Islar: Cal
    Calvino Rabeni: Touche Mick
    Zon Quar: i think we have built in us the need to be creative, make new forms
    Zon Quar: only if it comes from outside
    Zon Quar: as a pressure
    Zon Quar: we dont like it
    Darren Islar: we need to be able to adapt
    Eliza Madrigal: make and take new forms perhaps ;-)
    Mickorod Renard: I guess the power to adapt is what creates a strong spiecies?
    Calvino Rabeni: Individuals have different tolerance for and need for novelty
    Calvino Rabeni: Bacteria are extremely adaptive
    Zon Quar: yes, there e always forerunners and laggards
    Darren Islar: yes and the powere to adapt is maybe the basis of our creativity
    Calvino Rabeni: We have "creative" friends and ones who value stability
    Zon Quar: as buddha said all chnages all the time, so make some art with it
    arabella Ella: Well Michael Kirton had distinguised between Adaptors and Innovators
    Darren Islar: I guess both are needed
    Darren Islar: but everyone has a certain amount of creativity in my opinion
    Zon Quar: nods
    Mickorod Renard: can u say more Ara?
    Calvino Rabeni: Creativity can be destabilizing and thus the ability to "ground" can be an element of being able to handle the destructive aspects of creativity
    Eliza Madrigal: there may be creative cycles also, less instrinsic to personality than to circumstances/context
    Calvino Rabeni: @eliza - there are creative spirits for groups
    Darren Islar: right Cal
    arabella Ella: some people are innovators (the ones who invent and who come up with good ideas and get them implemented), others adapt (with time) to change
    Eliza Madrigal: @ Cal, maybe the needs of the group grow them? :)
    Mickorod Renard: thanks
    Calvino Rabeni: Everyone is an innovator, broadly - it isn't the job of a few geniuses
    Zon Quar: i think in Maslows hierarchy of needs the top is self expression which is quite near to creativity to me
    arabella Ella: creative spirits for groups?
    Calvino Rabeni: @Eliza, yes I agree!
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: That is good to observe :)
    arabella Ella: 'Self Actualization' Zon
    Zon Quar: yes
    Mickorod Renard: presumably, a creative society is most creative when it feels secure and supported,,and able to drop responsibilities etc?
    Darren Islar: to my opinion creativiy doesn't start at the upper level of Maslows hierarchy
    Calvino Rabeni: The maslow pyramid is misleading - creativity is present / needed / used at every level
    Darren Islar: people can be very creative in order to survive
    Mickorod Renard: true
    Calvino Rabeni: But it doesn't get "credit"
    arabella Ella: yes a lot of creativity occured as a result of the need for survival during WW2
    Darren Islar: but you look swell Zon :-)
    Zon Quar: ty ã‹¡
    Mickorod Renard: much/most creativity seems to appear during wars
    Darren Islar: or hunger
    Zon Quar: sry , im called, bye all
    Darren Islar: becoming creative in finding the next meal
    Calvino Rabeni: Much technology is first created by the military
    Eliza Madrigal nods to Zon... a free person may be one able to spontaneously draw out what is needed in the moment/context as they go... seems expression, in a sense
    arabella Ella: well Defence Departments with huge budgets often finance research which leads to creativity and innovation - one example being the WWW
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Zon
    Wol Euler: bye zon, take care
    Eliza Madrigal nods to Ara
    arabella Ella: bye Zon
    Darren Islar: bye Zon
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,support of money
    Mickorod Renard: bye zon
    Mickorod Renard: supply and demand is present in creativity too
    Darren Islar: I think it depends on the working of the mind when somebody gets most creative
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes
    Darren Islar: a lot of creativity is there due to pressure
    Eliza Madrigal: Some of the most amazing cooks had nothing to work with in the beginning
    Darren Islar: any situation I guess that makes us drop ideas and thoughts
    Darren Islar: old ideas and thoughts
    Eliza Madrigal: or do without something we thought we needed for a while, I imagine
    Eliza Madrigal: bracketing :)
    Mickorod Renard: peripheral distractions
    Calvino Rabeni: Is there creativity not contingent on pressure or need? Suppose one had a perfect environment with all the lower needs met - I guess maslow would say creativity would then be used for self-actualization
    Calvino Rabeni: What if you already felt self-actualized?
    Calvino Rabeni: Then achieve a perfect stasis/
    Calvino Rabeni: ?
    arabella Ella: well inventors think up new stuff for which they may not be a need at first
    Eliza Madrigal: Well, indeed there are many who have achieved more than they ever hoped, and the satisfaction of continuing to innovate still drives them
    Calvino Rabeni: OR evolve to a new "level"
    Mickorod Renard: then distruction would follow,,as a cycle
    Eliza Madrigal: to be generous, is a need
    arabella Ella: and some new things create new demands ... like SL and virtual stuff
    Darren Islar: I think being in the moment is the most creative state in the end
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Mickorod Renard: our past is a cycle,,always
    Darren Islar: always dropping, every moment again
    Eliza Madrigal: lovely, Darren.. agree... continuity
    Eliza Madrigal: like shedding 'drag' somehow
    Calvino Rabeni: Not sure - can "being in the moment" be complacent? It could unless it also includes the re-creation
    Darren Islar is looking up complacent
    Eliza Madrigal: "nature abhores a vacuum" ?
    Calvino Rabeni: And what would the "urge" look like?
    Calvino Rabeni: Complacent - idea that nothing needs to change
    Calvino Rabeni: What would a creative urge look like at an enlightened level?
    Eliza Madrigal: joy?
    Calvino Rabeni: Or would there be none?
    Mickorod Renard: a rebirth
    Darren Islar: good question :-)
    Wol Euler bows and slips quietly away. Goodnight all, take care.
    Mickorod Renard: nite wol
    Eliza Madrigal: Night Wol :)
    Darren Islar: of coure there will be (I think)
    Calvino Rabeni: :) WOL
    arabella Ella: nite Wol take care!
    Darren Islar: nite Wol
    Darren Islar: (a bit late0
    Mickorod Renard: like spring after winter
    Eliza Madrigal: thinks of joyful overflow and gestures of celebration... pretty creative
    Eliza Madrigal: but maybe that's 'relief' of something
    Darren Islar: relief doesn't wounds like enlightenment :-)
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes celebration seems creativity without being driven by need
    Mickorod Renard: ok,,i have to go home
    Darren Islar: *sounds
    Eliza Madrigal: I'd imagine enlightenment to not have that sense of having met a 'need'... but all always having been perfect?
    Mickorod Renard: thanks 4 the chat
    Darren Islar: bye Mick
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Mick, good to see you
    Calvino Rabeni: BYe
    Mickorod Renard: byeeeeeeeee xxx
    Eliza Madrigal: (Btw, does someone have the log today?)
    arabella Ella: nite Mick
    arabella Ella: Calvino claimed the log as Fef is not here
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, thanks Cal
    Darren Islar: is enlightenment making you perfect?
    Eliza Madrigal: no because you've never not been...
    Darren Islar: eh.... we are at the end of the hour, this is a new question I guess
    arabella Ella: i must go too ... nite all!
    Eliza Madrigal: Nite Ara :)
    Darren Islar: bye Ara
    Eliza Madrigal: Actually, me too... wasn't intended to linger :) as often happens
    Darren Islar: :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: Thanks guys :) Bye for now
    Darren Islar: bye Eliza
    Darren Islar: well Cal, it is you and me again
    Darren Islar: :-)
    Calvino Rabeni: Sure thing, Kid
    Darren Islar: :-)
    Darren Islar: it feels like I sat down here, something happened and now I'm wondering what happened
    Calvino Rabeni: They are off to do whatever it is they do for a living, working out their aliases and alibi's
    Darren Islar: like the discussion has been there and hasn't been there
    Calvino Rabeni: True
    Darren Islar: it is a weird feeling
    Calvino Rabeni: Like life
    Darren Islar: I suppose so
    Darren Islar: I'm afraid it is the only one I've got
    Calvino Rabeni: It is emphatic I grant you that
    Darren Islar: :-)
    Darren Islar: it is a stupid hat, but I like the way it moves
    Darren Islar: was that a yes? :-)
    Calvino Rabeni: What happens if you say / yes
    Darren Islar: yes
    Calvino Rabeni: was that the gesture with the / ?
    Darren Islar: yes, I understan, but I do't seem to have a gesture like that
    Calvino Rabeni: I see, they are different
    Darren Islar: no, that doesn't help :-)
    Darren Islar: how was that?
    Calvino Rabeni: repeat please
    Darren Islar: I feel stupid!!
    Calvino Rabeni: Hmmm, I see what you mean
    Darren Islar: strange that the gesture Yes is not standard
    Calvino Rabeni: Odd indeed,it seems fundamental
    Darren Islar: oh and buy the way, you look stupid too when you laugh :-))))
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, I tried it and what you say is the truth
    Darren Islar: :-)
    Darren Islar: yes it is fundamental
    Calvino Rabeni: Do you read much in English, normally, or not prefer to do so?
    Darren Islar: only if I have too
    Darren Islar: I'm a slow reader
    Darren Islar: so Dutch is more comfortable to me
    Calvino Rabeni: Do translators help
    Darren Islar: not with a book
    Darren Islar: and not in general, you get the weirdest translations
    Darren Islar: the sencentes in Dutch are ordered differently
    Calvino Rabeni: There is a dutch wikipedia?
    Darren Islar: but what a translator normally does is translating every word and put them togheter
    Darren Islar: yes there is
    Calvino Rabeni: With good coverage?
    Darren Islar: yes, pretty much though, but I need the english version too
    Darren Islar: but there small articles
    Darren Islar: the only problem is when a lot of words are used that are only common to the subject
    Qt Core: Hi Calvino, Darren
    Darren Islar: but translators do help sometimes, for instance when I was talking to chinese guy which english was very poor
    Calvino Rabeni: What's new, Qt?
    Darren Islar: that's fun, because you come up with the weirdest signs, and you have no idea what they are all about
    Darren Islar: like that somehow
    Darren Islar: hi QT
    Qt Core: nothing good, cal, i'm a little ill
    Calvino Rabeni: Sorry
    Darren Islar: a virus of some kind
    Qt Core: it happens
    Qt Core: we are getting an extra round of flu around here
    Darren Islar: ah, normal flu
    Qt Core: (i wonder why i didn' use the translator this morning, Darren
    Darren Islar: ah, didn't think of that either
    Darren Islar: we had a bunch of russions coming in
    Darren Islar: I think there were 5?
    Qt Core: already forgot, but maybe
    Darren Islar: oh, just remembered, as Darren I don't have a translator
    Darren Islar: did they stay long?
    Qt Core: some half an hour
    Darren Islar: I didn't get the second part of the log so I missed the last part
    Darren Islar: hmmm, well pretty long
    Qt Core: i don't have it as i don't like to have nearby chat logged
    Darren Islar: well, I guess it is not a real problem
    Darren Islar: my feeling is that they just liked to have a look around
    Darren Islar: but werent really interested in PaB
    Qt Core: we just spoke a little about prigramming at large, nothing big or profound
    Darren Islar: *weren't
    Darren Islar: ah, okay
    Darren Islar: I do have a lot of gestures, but no yes
    Darren Islar: accept the one I got from you
    Darren Islar: no no either
    Darren Islar: tosome people maybe even more important :-)
    Qt Core: i don't use AO nor gestires, but i plan to (you know, until next 31 February)
    Darren Islar: what is important about 31 of February
    Qt Core: as it will not come, untill you have a lenient calendar
    Darren Islar: :)
    Darren Islar: you got me there
    Darren Islar: Cal wanted to see my hat move when I said yes
    Darren Islar: then we laughed and looked stupid
    Darren Islar: as I already do I guess
    Qt Core: well, with hats like that one don't really have to move to seem at least silly ;-)
    Darren Islar: right :-)
    Darren Islar: I like Cal's hat, but I don't seem to get near it
    Darren Islar: I'm afraid this is the only hat I have
    Darren Islar: hahahah
    Darren Islar: well, it's better then mine
    Darren Islar: but that is about all you can say about it
    Calvino Rabeni: That is one for the records - Cabinet Meeting, Ministry of Silly Hats
    Qt Core: the good the bad and the ugly, each one pick his role ;-)
    Darren Islar: :-)
    Darren Islar: well, my head is starting to get drowsy, so I better go to sleep
    Darren Islar: see you guys
    Qt Core: bye, sleep well
    Calvino Rabeni: Good reason yes - see you later :)
    Calvino Rabeni: And I am expecting a phone call quite soon
    Qt Core: i think i'll go to the author of this hat to tell him it was a success ;-)
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, it is highly functional
    Qt Core: bye Cal, have fun
    Calvino Rabeni: You too, QT get well
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