2010.04.08 01:00 - I am a lobster in real life

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Zen Arado. The comments are by Zen Arado. Present were Qt Core, Darren Islar, and briefly, Crusty Goldshark and Stevenaia Michinaga - and my cat:)

    Qt is suffering a bout of Flu' so we talked about that (and cats and dogs):  

        Zen Arado: Hi Qt :)
        Qt Core: hi
        Zen Arado: how are you?
        Qt Core: not so great recovering from a flu
        Zen Arado: oh
        Zen Arado: swine flu?
        Qt Core: don't know, don't think
        Qt Core: the cat is a friend of yours ?
        Zen Arado: must be seasonal variety maybe
        Zen Arado: yes it's my cat :)
        Zen Arado: brought her for company :)
        Qt Core: and as real cats she is ignoring you and sleeps away :-)
        Zen Arado: ha ha yes
        Zen Arado: but she also sits and stares at me
        Zen Arado: I had a ittle cat like this when I was a boy
        Zen Arado: little
        Zen Arado: I like cats - and dogs
        Qt Core: only cats for me and i had one or two when i was a child
        Zen Arado: I would like one in RL but where I live is not good for cats
        Zen Arado: too near a main road
        Zen Arado: and I don't like to keep cats in the house all the time
        Qt Core: same here, until 9 i lived in a home with a little but nice garden with several fruit tree and space for animals we had chicken, a turtle and the neigorough visiting dog and sometimes a cat
        Zen Arado: that's nice
        Zen Arado: I live in a ground floor apartment atm
        Zen Arado: I had a dog but he died abbout 5 years ago
        Zen Arado: I used to walk him every morning from an electric wheelchair
        Zen Arado: it was very cold in winter
        Zen Arado: so I didn't get another one
        Zen Arado: dogs need a lot of care and attention
        Qt Core: yes that is the utilitaristic part of my preference for cats ;-)
        Zen Arado: yes they are more indepenent

    The pub and Eckhart Tolle:

        Zen Arado: Yaku and I were in the pub for a while yesterday
        Zen Arado: not many use the pub
        Zen Arado: I invited a woman and we talked about Eckhart Tolle
        Zen Arado: you know him?
        Qt Core: no, i think i don't
        Zen Arado: he is a German guy who wrote a famous book called 'The Power of Now'
        Zen Arado: similar to what we do here I think
        Zen Arado: keeping coming back to the present moment
        Zen Arado: there is a group for him in SL but nothing much has happened with it yet

    Back to the Flu:

    Zen Arado: flu makes you weak?
        Zen Arado: I have a vaccination against it every year
        Qt Core: yes, it made me quite weak
        Qt Core: i don't get the vaccination and i don't usually get the flu, but this year we get at least 4 round and i lost on this fourth one
        Zen Arado: I get it because I am old and have muscular dystrophy, a nuscle wasting disease
        Zen Arado: muscle
        Zen Arado: so my muscles are weak already
        Zen Arado: if I got flu I might not be able to get out of bed
        Zen Arado: I would need nursing care
        Qt Core: both my mother and sister get it and they didn't get it (yet)
        Qt Core: get it the vaccine don't get it the flu ;-)
        Zen Arado: yes - I havent had the flu for about 20 years
        Zen Arado: in fact I don't remember it was so long ago
        Qt Core: in last decades flu changed, now it is most a gastric bug that the old cold type
        Zen Arado: Hi Darren

    Darren arrives and we talk about alt personality and societal gender roles and stereotypes:

        Qt Core: hi Darren
        Darren Islar: hi guys
        Zen Arado: you were here before?
        Darren Islar: sorry, changed my tag last night
        Darren Islar: yes, I have as Liza
        Zen Arado: ah I thought I recognizes the name
        Darren Islar: yes, I think you saw Darren before, but not sure
        Zen Arado: the cat is looking suspiciously at you :)
        Darren Islar: ow, then maybe I should do something about that
        Zen Arado: how do you like being male?
        Darren Islar: hmmmm, I'm afraid she doesn't like me
        Darren Islar: pretty normal :_)
        Darren Islar: It is different, but I do have a strong male-side
        Darren Islar: and sl gives me the opportunity to feel how that is like
        Darren Islar: but I need to say that Darren surprised me
        Zen Arado: in what way?
        Darren Islar: well, I alwasy thought that the maleside sometimes got in the way in my personality
        Darren Islar: but that turns out to be liza's ....eh.....bitchy side
        Darren Islar: and never want to have children
        Darren Islar: but Darren seem to love them
        Zen Arado: I don't know what way to think about male/female
        Darren Islar: I guess we projected to many labels on being male or female
        Darren Islar: some are right but some are very cultural
        Zen Arado: ther is a lot of prejudices and hang ups in me about that
        Darren Islar: and all my life I have been fighting with that
        Darren Islar: because I am not a 'normal' female
        Zen Arado: what is 'normal' ?
        Zen Arado: I think it is like a scale from masculine to feminine
        Qt Core: i had trouble for my knowledge of male/female roles even in the first week of kindergarden ;-)
        Zen Arado: you could be in the middle
        Darren Islar: well, normal is a picture in your head of what you think a male or female should be like
        Darren Islar: and some of the picture is colored in by the environment
        Zen Arado: yes but it is a societal stereotype isn't it?
        Darren Islar: and some you color in yourself
        Zen Arado: there is fear in males in case they are gay
        Darren Islar: yes, so you can ask yourself what 'normal' is
        Darren Islar: but if you define that as: what most people do
        Darren Islar: i don't fit the normal standard
        Darren Islar: but does that make me abnormal
        Darren Islar: yes Zen, I understand
        Zen Arado: no only as far as a lot of prejudiced people are concerned
        Darren Islar: interesting QT
        Zen Arado: I am a pretty heterosexual male
        Darren Islar: :-)
        Darren Islar: well, I think me being a lesbian opened up things
        Qt Core: my mother was a teacher and my father an engineer, so i was used to see my mother working grading papers and my fathers halping around home
        Darren Islar: there is no 'role' of what a lesbian should be like
        Darren Islar: especially not in my days
        Qt Core: so when i was asked to draw my family i depicted that... free pass to the school shrink ;-)
        Zen Arado: you should just learn to be yourself
        Darren Islar: ah, your parents took different roles
        Zen Arado: :) Qt
        Darren Islar: wow
        Qt Core: it was only thet my father didn't take work home so he had teh time to help
        Zen Arado: some countries are less open to gayness
        Qt Core: luckily the shrink was a family friend ;-)
        Zen Arado: and are rigid in gender roles
        Darren Islar: yes, but it is an experience you will not forget
        Darren Islar: so you learned something about what others think would be right or wrong
        Zen Arado: yes
        Darren Islar: it shouldn't be that way
        Qt Core: yes,people should mistreat male and females equally ;-)
        Darren Islar: and as a child you are open to that kind of input
        Zen Arado: society is changing for the better though
        Darren Islar: :-) QT
        Zen Arado: :)
        Darren Islar: I don't know, I thought so too, but still a lot of lesbians seem to have the same kind of problems
        Zen Arado: older people still have hang ups
        Darren Islar: but there are more opportunities to explore more, that is true
        Qt Core: sometimes i wonder if speaking a language that don't have a neuter so everything is male ot female make that worse
        Darren Islar: oh but younger too, especially with the growing group of immigrants, that still have the same prejudices
        Zen Arado: there was a case in the UK last weekend where a gay couple were refused admission to a bed and breakfast place
        Darren Islar: I mean for somebody form Turkey to be gay, well, you'd better not be
        Darren Islar: it still happens
        Darren Islar: I don't know QT, interesting question
        Darren Islar: I think so
        Darren Islar: where did the cat go
        Zen Arado: good point t
        Zen Arado: I took it
        Zen Arado: everything is going funny for me here
        Darren Islar: ah, so I can't try to make friends anymore :-(
        Zen Arado: thought it might be because of the cat
        Darren Islar: ah :-)
        Zen Arado: why Liza?
        Qt Core: i have to go, as i'm not comatose like yesterday i will be slaved around today :-(
        Zen Arado: the couple got a lot of sympathy - they were on TV news
        Zen Arado: ok bye Qt
        Darren Islar: good luck then QT
        Darren Islar: bye
        Qt Core: bye all
        Darren Islar: yes, well that is a good thing too, people now getting angry about such behavior

    Crusty Goldshark arrived and I crashed at this point but hopefully did not miss too much. We talked about environmental pressures on gender and gayness:

        Zen Arado: oh the recording stopped too
        Darren Islar: oh there is a new recording
        Darren Islar: yes, I'm not a memeber
        Zen Arado: ha hope I can sort it out :)
        Zen Arado: interested in what you wre saying Liza
        Darren Islar: it happened to me uyesterday, had liza claimed both logs
        Crusty Goldshark: back - yes I have been here before - about a year ago
        Darren Islar: but I didn't get the link of the second log
        Zen Arado: ok and you know we record the sessions and are happy about that?
        Darren Islar: funny you still call me liza :-)
        Zen Arado: sorry I forgot:)
        Crusty Goldshark: Yes I am happy for Liza to be recorded
        Darren Islar: np :-)
        Zen Arado: gets confusing :)
        Darren Islar: pretty much so :-)
        Crusty Goldshark: Confusion is my natural state
        Zen Arado: we were taliking about gender issues Crusty
        Crusty Goldshark: I am a Lobster in real life -
        Zen Arado: and using alts of a different sex than you normally have
        Zen Arado: :)
        Crusty Goldshark: ah yes - well I am a definite gender in real life but quite happy to be human in SL
        Darren Islar: well, then you changed a lot Crusty
        Zen Arado: women's sexuality is more fluid than that of a male I think
        Zen Arado: males have more rigid roles
        Crusty Goldshark: well I feel gender is important for sex procreation and warfare and sport which men seem to enjoy . . .
        Darren Islar: yes I think your right
        Crusty Goldshark: well I have just been playing a game as a woman - it was either that or a martian . . .
        Darren Islar: at the same time, women aren't taken seriously when it comes to taken up a role besides the 'box'
        Zen Arado: maybe it is because society demands more rigidity for males?
        Darren Islar: you know a lot of males seem to think that lesbians can be turned around
        Darren Islar: if they only get the right experience with the right man
        Crusty Goldshark: depends on the environment and context _ I would be quite happy to be female in a virtual life or a robot or an animal - in real life I would be locked up . . .
        Zen Arado: ha yes
        Darren Islar: to make sure you best can also copy the onversation
        Darren Islar: the last part
        Darren Islar: true Crusty
        Zen Arado: there is a female politician in N.Ireland who last year declared that she had a psychologist friend who could treat homosexuals
        Darren Islar: OMG
        Zen Arado: make them 'normal'
        Crusty Goldshark: I like wandering around in second life (first time here in a while) but find most of the conversations too inane to bother with - prefer talking to myself . ..
        Zen Arado: but there was a huge outcry
        Zen Arado: we are pretty inane too Crusty :)
        Crusty Goldshark: homosexuality is needed for us to survive - it is a social necessity
        Crusty Goldshark: I should say societal survival mechanism
        Zen Arado: it later transpired she had had an affair with a young man 30 years younger than her ( she was married to the Prime Mininster here )
        Darren Islar: emptiness Zen? :-)
        Zen Arado: why do you say that Crusty?
        Darren Islar: wrong interpretation of it clearly :-)
        Crusty Goldshark: Is emptiness like air heads?
        Zen Arado: I practice 'not knowing' :)
        Darren Islar: people can be weird
        Zen Arado: weirder the better :)
        Crusty Goldshark: Well . . . I feel there is a male anger and even female competiveness
        Darren Islar: maybe so Crusty, but it doesn't interest me much why I feel this way, I just do
        Zen Arado: I always found feminism interesting
        Crusty Goldshark: if allowed to get out of control (no counter measure) our societal tribes would tear themselves to bits - so homosexuality deals that aggressive aspect of humanity
        Zen Arado: homosexuals aren't agressive?
        Crusty Goldshark: Anyways - have to go make tea - will cu again sometime - bfn
        Darren Islar: I thnk he means something different
        Zen Arado: ok bye Crusty
        Darren Islar: bye Crusty
        Zen Arado: yeah maybe
        Zen Arado: not so agressive in killing each other maybe
        Crusty Goldshark: homosexuals are not agressive when - eh - trying to attract rather than bitch - OK Lobster out
        Zen Arado: ok agreed :)
        Darren Islar: :-)

    Fighting for womens' or disability rights:

        Zen Arado: you don't think you should fight for women's rights?
        Darren Islar: oh I did
        Zen Arado: or raise awareness etc?
        Zen Arado: only asking BTW
        Darren Islar: but womens rights are different then lesbian rights
        Zen Arado: not saying you should
        Darren Islar: it is pretty confusing too
        Zen Arado: well - lesbian rights too
        Darren Islar: well, as a buddhist I guess I chose another way
        Darren Islar: I'm not interested anmore in demonstrations
        Zen Arado: I find the same with disability
        Darren Islar: I'm more interested what it does to me and the people around me
        Zen Arado: I used to campaign for better access etc
        Darren Islar: well, I'm very glad there are still people out there that are fighting, or campaigning which is a less agressive word
        Darren Islar: But in the end it starts with human relationships
        Zen Arado: yes - I still do it but on a personal level
        Darren Islar: I think it is important to work on both sides
        Darren Islar: exactly
        Zen Arado: I was a disability activist for a long time
        Zen Arado: but got cynical about the way the groups worked
        Darren Islar: and some are better in campaigning and some are better in other things
        Zen Arado: yes that too
        Zen Arado: I got fed up going to meetings
        Darren Islar: yes, I'm afraid I would get into a fight with the group :-)
        Darren Islar: somehow that doesn't work with me
        Zen Arado: me too ;)
        Darren Islar: so it is better to do something on a personal level for me
        Zen Arado: I talk to local concillors
        Darren Islar: what are concillors?
        Zen Arado: councillors
        Darren Islar: oh, ah
        Zen Arado: town councillors administration for my town
        Darren Islar: I understand now
        Zen Arado: I got some things improved for disabled in my town
        Darren Islar: great, that's important
        Zen Arado: but I don't want to spend all my time doing that
        Darren Islar: agreed


        Zen Arado: just keeping going to things helps
        Darren Islar: are you disabled in any way Zen if it is not too personal to ask?
        Zen Arado: yes - I have muscular dystrophy
        Zen Arado: muscle wasting disease
        Darren Islar: yes, is that for your whole body?
        Zen Arado: I don't keep it a secret:)
        Zen Arado: yes
        Darren Islar: wowo
        Darren Islar: wow I mean
        Zen Arado: it starts in arms and shoulders
        Zen Arado: and it affects my legs now so I am in a wheelchair
        Zen Arado: Hi Steve :)
        Darren Islar: sorry to hear Zen
        Darren Islar: hi Steve
        stevenaia Michinaga: hello, just waking up here
        Darren Islar: is this the genetic kind?
        Zen Arado: yes I was born with it
        Darren Islar: do you have a lot of pain?
        Zen Arado: no not much
        Zen Arado: having trouble with right shoulder atm though
        Zen Arado: I use it so much for picking things up
        Darren Islar: and it is not working well anymore
        Darren Islar: quite a story Zen
        Zen Arado: soemrtimes it is the way I sleep
        Darren Islar: sorry?
        Zen Arado: if I sleep on my right side it gets painful when I wake up
        Darren Islar: ah
        Zen Arado: I was able to work for 33 years anyway
        Darren Islar: that is quite a long time with a disease like that
        Zen Arado: yes but you get used to it
        Zen Arado: you find ways to work around it
        Zen Arado: you have to !
        Darren Islar: well, somehow things that are there from the day you are born, are in a way easier to handle
        Darren Islar: because you don't now different
        Zen Arado: in some ways yes
        Darren Islar: and as you say: you have to
        Zen Arado: but I got depressed at each new stage of the disease
        Darren Islar: I can imagine, I didn't mean to say it is easy
        Zen Arado: having to use a wheelchair is the worst
        Zen Arado: I am not sensitive about it Darren :)
        Darren Islar: :-)
        Zen Arado: I am supposed to go to a retreat in 2 weeks
        Zen Arado: but it is so exhausting for me
        Darren Islar: yes
        Zen Arado: even though people give me a lot of help
        Darren Islar: yes, but everything takes up more energy now
        Darren Islar: need to think about every detail
        Darren Islar: and I suppose there is also a body fatigue
        Zen Arado: I have to get up 1/2 hour earlier than others it takes me so much time to put my clothes on
        Zen Arado: 5.30 am
        Darren Islar: yes, for example
        Darren Islar: well I think 6 is already very early :-)
        Zen Arado: they start meditation at 6.20 am
        Zen Arado: and it doesn't finish until 9.30 pm
        Darren Islar: ah yes in retreats they do that early
        Darren Islar: quite a long time
        Darren Islar: but you are still going
        Zen Arado: not sure
        Darren Islar: hmmmm, sorry to hear
        Zen Arado: you still go to retreats?
        Darren Islar: no, my body fatigue isn't letting me
        Zen Arado: you have ME?
        Darren Islar: After an hour I get exhausted
        Darren Islar: I suppose so
        Darren Islar: there seems to be nothing else wrong, so it means that I probably have ME
        Darren Islar: but they are not able to diagnose that
        Zen Arado: it is difficult to diagnose I think
        Darren Islar: yes
        Darren Islar: and hard for others to understand, because there seems to be nothing wrong with me
        Zen Arado: yes
        Zen Arado: I wonder if there is much point going if I am so exhausted all the time
        Zen Arado: I usually don't sleep very well at retreats
        Zen Arado: nearly fall off the wheelchair during the day
        Zen Arado: because I get so sleepy
        Darren Islar: :-)
        Darren Islar: well, the problem to me is that if I get exhausted
        Darren Islar: I get through my physical resistance
        Darren Islar: and when that happens
        Darren Islar: I also go through my psychological resistance
        Zen Arado: yes
        Darren Islar: I also have a psychological trauma
        Zen Arado: the body affects the mind too
        Darren Islar: and the all kind of negative feelings and emotions are coming up
        Darren Islar: oh it does
        Zen Arado: yes
        Darren Islar: and then it gets really hard
        Zen Arado: people don't understand
        Zen Arado: you have to experience it yourself
        Darren Islar: no, if you haven't been there, you don't understand
        Darren Islar: yes
        Zen Arado: like people tell me to take exercise to build up my muscles
        Darren Islar: and in relationship with friends that can become a real issue
        Zen Arado: I know
        Darren Islar: yes :-)
        Darren Islar: I have a ton of good advices
        Darren Islar: and if I don't do what they think I should do, they feel they can judge me about that
        Zen Arado: I tell them my muscles are damaged in a way that they don't get stronger with exercise but they never believe me
        Darren Islar: that I'm not working hard enough to 'get better'
        Zen Arado: yes exactly
        Darren Islar: it is so strange that people that know you for an hour seems to know what is wrong with you
        Zen Arado: yes
        Zen Arado: :)
        Darren Islar: while you're there in your body for so many years tryig to find a solution
        Darren Islar: it is almost like people are afraid to except the facts
        Darren Islar: there need to be a solution
        Zen Arado: I was diagnosed at age 12 - 54 years ago :)
        Darren Islar: yes, that;s what i mean
        Darren Islar: people like to have hope
        Darren Islar: and they don't want to understand that accepting the situation is a much better idea
        Zen Arado: yes

    Stephen Batchelor and ideas of death:

        Zen Arado: I watched a video yesterday
        Zen Arado: Stephen Batchelor
        Darren Islar: (there is a familiar sound to that)
        Zen Arado: he says we only have a finite number of breaths left
        Zen Arado: each time we breathe it is one less !
        Zen Arado: but paradoxically that makes us more aware of each moment
        Zen Arado: and to make the most of what time we have left
        Darren Islar: yes
        Darren Islar: so what tells us that about top sporters I wonder :-)
        Zen Arado: http://www.tricycle.com/online-retre...wakening-death
        Darren Islar: thanks
        Darren Islar: I will look at it later
        Zen Arado: it is 26 mins long only
        Zen Arado: I better go Darren
        Zen Arado: I have to go out soon
        Zen Arado: nice talking to you:)
        Darren Islar: oh before you go
        Zen Arado: yes?
        Darren Islar: I give you another link
        Zen Arado: sure
        Darren Islar: that really cheers me up when I'm down
        Darren Islar: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tx4cRw6TIIg
        Zen Arado: ok thanks
        Zen Arado: see you soon :)
        Zen Arado: bye

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