2010.07.19 19:00 - Existence and Awareness

The Guardian for this meeting was SophiaSharon Larnia. The comments are by SophiaSharon Larnia. This session was attended by Eliza, Paradise, Bleu, druth (and Bruce at the very end). We continued discussions on Pema’s book chapter 1. Awareness.
 

SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sharon :) Strange... I was trying to tp here for a few minutes but wasn't allowed
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Paradise :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Paradise :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh? that is strange hm
Paradise Tennant: smiles hiya sophia eliza ..gtsy :)
Eliza Madrigal: This dress has caused me to want to shop for an AO... so was in one of those spots... maybe that was the reason somehow... lag, etc
SophiaSharon Larnia: (and I don't see either one of you at all!)
Eliza Madrigal: I'm looking through you...
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh thank you for the link Paradise!!
Eliza Madrigal: (sorry, just singing)
SophiaSharon Larnia: eep you both just popped into view!
Eliza Madrigal: Eep and Meep
SophiaSharon Larnia: that may have been it :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: heavy lag here
SophiaSharon Larnia: what song is that Eliza?
SophiaSharon Larnia: song*
Eliza Madrigal: Beatles song...
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
Eliza Madrigal: it is usually a Beatles song... haha
Eliza Madrigal: that I get hung up on: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eedLQ006ciM
Paradise Tennant: smiles me too
Paradise Tennant: they were such a like a big unleashing :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: I had the song with the lyrics "i love you yea yea yea' in m yhead the other day
Eliza Madrigal: timeless... for me it is like they blend in perfectly with everything...

--BELL--

SophiaSharon Larnia: I’m still thinking about what you said earlier Eliza, about looking at things fresh, like through newcomer's eyes.
Paradise Tennant: smiles looking at things fresh is .. a kind of dropping isn't it
Eliza Madrigal: yes, seems it is...
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes! Dropping an expectation, or opinion
Eliza Madrigal: In Eden's session this morning, Bleu called sheer appearances a 'fresh encounter'
SophiaSharon Larnia: ah
Paradise Tennant: we were talking about pema's chapters last night
Paradise Tennant: smiles .. the tripartite trap of subjective experience
SophiaSharon Larnia: I hadn't thought how easy it is to 1. forget to do this and 2. when you have gotten used to doing this in a situational way (say, get used to explaining something to someone) the freshness wears off
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, yes... both
Eliza Madrigal: It's fun to be in flexible company... like, when the weather turns and supposedly spoils the plans, but then something else can arise from that ...
SophiaSharon Larnia: can you post a link on that term, i don’t remember it
Eliza Madrigal: Being nimble
Eliza Madrigal: Not sure if that session is posted yet...
Eliza Madrigal: Hey Bleu, Druth :)
Bleu Oleander: hi all :)
druth Vlodovic: hi
Paradise Tennant: hiya bleu gtsy druth :) :)
Eliza Madrigal: Druth you are looking considerably less frightening this evening :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Bleu, Hi druth :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: and here i was looking for it :))
druth Vlodovic: lol, thanks, it would be bad if it was the other way around
Paradise Tennant: smiles bleu is all sky and clouds .. tonight ..lovely :)
Bleu Oleander: ty! Paradise :)
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Bleu Oleander: an Yves Klein painting
Bleu Oleander: ty Sharon for the nc
SophiaSharon Larnia: np! I'm a bit slow
Eliza Madrigal: subject/object/both.... Is this what you were referring to Paradise...
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Paradise Tennant: yes
Eliza Madrigal: from the homework this week...
Eliza Madrigal: Bleu I mentioned earlier your phrase 'fresh encounter'... that phrase itself felt very fresh
Bleu Oleander: that's Pema's phrase from his new chapter
Eliza Madrigal: is that in there... wow, have read it twice and missed it there
Eliza Madrigal: hit me 'anew' this morning

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bleu Oleander: under sheer appearance
SophiaSharon Larnia: I'm just thinking of the word sheer, like something you look can look through
Bleu Oleander: something pure
SophiaSharon Larnia: I'm not sure if that is taking the word too literally
Eliza Madrigal: I don't think so...
Bleu Oleander: "the word 'sheer' suggests that we stay with what appears."
Eliza Madrigal: that's how I tend to feel it also... like solidity is made up of layers which seem impenetrable at first...
Paradise Tennant: yes
Paradise Tennant: listens
Eliza Madrigal: So as an exercise, how would you describe this Bleu?
SophiaSharon Larnia: sheer being labels, interpreting, recognizing patterns,
Bleu Oleander: a : unqualified, utter b : being free from an adulterant : pure, unmixed
SophiaSharon Larnia: seeing through them
druth Vlodovic: in context it seems to mean "simply" as in disregarding emotional response and value judgments usually associated with what appears
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Bleu Oleander: that's one def from dictionary
Bleu Oleander: that's how I took it to mean
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, yes... nothing added...
Eliza Madrigal: which seems to me another 'layer'
Eliza Madrigal: funny
Bleu Oleander: the base layer perhaps
Bleu Oleander: upon which other layers are added maybe?
SophiaSharon Larnia: nothing added, attempting to regulate what appears?
Eliza Madrigal: unconditioned...
Bleu Oleander: letting appearance appear
Eliza Madrigal: part of conditioning seems to stick everything together...
Bleu Oleander: kinda like being seeing I would imagine
SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
Eliza Madrigal: yes, these are really helpful distinctions...
Eliza Madrigal: Isn't it the same... thinking of Sharon's question/comment earlier about expectations...
Eliza Madrigal: when we aren't experiencing people anew it is perhaps that we stick them to something they said 'before'... or...
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, like a script
Eliza Madrigal: hm, yes... the story of them, or of the relationship we have with them...
SophiaSharon Larnia: I want to say program, but that seems rather harsh
Paradise Tennant: we do live stories :)
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, not at all... agendas can be pernicious
Eliza Madrigal nods @ Paradise...
Eliza Madrigal: so they can be enjoyed... if we aren't stuck there (Like I seem to be in the word 'stuck' )
Bleu Oleander: so our homework is to try to shift between experience and awareness
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bleu Oleander: have you tried that?
Eliza Madrigal: Yes... had quite an exploration today but haven't posted it... am going to continue
SophiaSharon Larnia: hmm, looking as if there is no 'I' involved :)
Eliza Madrigal: yes !
Eliza Madrigal: which is funny because we think all kinds of things are 'i' normally... don't notice that we're doing it...
Eliza Madrigal: we think... heheh
SophiaSharon Larnia: :D
Eliza Madrigal: and others, re the homework?
Paradise Tennant: yes one of the tasks of learning how to write is to reduce the number of Is in a paragraph .. oddly it seems the practice to a more fully alive life :)
Bleu Oleander: haven't tried it yet
SophiaSharon Larnia: I'm leaving for a week, so have not done it yet, will try it when i am away

--BELL--

Bleu Oleander: still struggling with the difference between experience and awareness
Eliza Madrigal: Nice observation Paradise, and I like going back to the word Druth used to describe as sheer: 'simply'
Eliza Madrigal: just pondering...
SophiaSharon Larnia: I'm struggling with it too, find it a little frightening, the greatest thing about the 9 seconds.
Eliza Madrigal listens
SophiaSharon Larnia: thinking of seeing with no 'I' involved is scary
Eliza Madrigal: but perhaps seeing with no "I" involved is refreshing...
Bleu Oleander: I personally don't think one can see with no "I" in a conscious sense
Eliza Madrigal: dropping thinking...
SophiaSharon Larnia: i picture a camera lens with all these dials
Eliza Madrigal: but one would say that the I does that maybe, which I don't think it's capable of doing... hehe
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
Paradise Tennant: hmm there are different kinds of seeing :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
Bleu Oleander: yes
Eliza Madrigal nods
Eliza Madrigal: so yes, what we're discussing seems very much Being seeing
Paradise Tennant: smiles
SophiaSharon Larnia: first is a feeling of, ok im not looking as "i" so 'who' am i looking as, still personifying
SophiaSharon Larnia: seeing being
Eliza Madrigal: :) Being with the seeing... as opposed to doing seeing...
SophiaSharon Larnia: so to not personify is to be something strange that ican touch only in dreams
Eliza Madrigal: dreams can be a way to taste these things... way before being able to articulate....
Bleu Oleander: "that 'I" can touch only in dreams"
SophiaSharon Larnia: or some spaced out place, and i don’t know how to approach it
SophiaSharon Larnia: right bleu :))))
Eliza Madrigal: so many directions to go with it, which is part of what makes it difficult to discourse about...
Bleu Oleander: yes!
SophiaSharon Larnia: its complicated and it isnt :)
Bleu Oleander: seems very abstract to me
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: yes, uncaptureable
Bleu Oleander: art is about seeing
Paradise Tennant: our minds think in very abstract constructs .. in a way it is deconstructing the already complicated
Bleu Oleander: so maybe artists do this in a nonconscious way
Paradise Tennant: Yes! Bleu ..you have can really see!
Bleu Oleander: artists in the bigger sense
Eliza Madrigal: artists are well practiced in surrender...
SophiaSharon Larnia: ah maybe thats the word
Bleu Oleander: somehow "attention" needs to be in there for me
Paradise Tennant: we should focus on surrender was part of my daily practice for a long time just surrendering to what ever was :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: the issue is complicated for me
Paradise Tennant: there is magic ..in the idea of just plain letting go
Eliza Madrigal: seems crucial ... yes... I'd use the word magic too :)
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Eliza Madrigal: the ordinary is imbued with magic perhaps...
Eliza Madrigal: hm... it is funny though....
Eliza Madrigal: that appreciation, say, can seem something intentional to do, and something to surrender to
Eliza Madrigal: it isn't really an either/or at some level

--BELL--

SophiaSharon Larnia: no I dont think so either
Paradise Tennant: smiles .. rl calls I must say good nite :) thank you I really appreciate the comments each of you made .. will ponder them in my dreams :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Paradise!
Eliza Madrigal: Night Paradise :) Thank you... sweet dreams
Bleu Oleander: nite Paradise :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Eliza Madrigal giggles at that wave
SophiaSharon Larnia: Paradise Tennant: namaste .. my we have dreams of surrender . smiles just plain love waving :)
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Bleu Oleander: :)
Eliza Madrigal: well so it seems to state the obvious that the i is what creates that struggle between subject/object....
Bleu Oleander: must say nite as well
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Bleu :))
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, Nite Bleu :)
Bleu Oleander: a lot to dream about :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
Eliza Madrigal thinks it dangerous to talk about these things so late... will be up thinking...
Bleu Oleander: yes!!
Bleu Oleander: need to start earlier
Eliza Madrigal: yes :)) Night and pleasant sleep
SophiaSharon Larnia: :) Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: YES!
Eliza Madrigal giggles
SophiaSharon Larnia: hehe
Bleu Oleander: bfn :)
Bleu Oleander: to be continued ......
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye for now!
Eliza Madrigal: hahah
Eliza Madrigal: So you will be gone for a week Sharon...
SophiaSharon Larnia: yep
Eliza Madrigal: seems too long :)
Eliza Madrigal: >whah<
SophiaSharon Larnia: so funny, i read that chapter and didnt see what we were talking about
Eliza Madrigal: Like I missed the phrase 'fresh encounter'
SophiaSharon Larnia: no wonder i was frightened
SophiaSharon Larnia: why great to come here and talk about it
SophiaSharon Larnia: aww ty Eliza!
Eliza Madrigal: which is like my nose now: "We talked about the freshness of what appears, as it appears, before we get lost in labeling and judging. Let us call this fresh encounter `sheer appearance' to emphasize that we are dealing with appearance before adding anything to it. "
SophiaSharon Larnia: your nose?
Eliza Madrigal: "As plain as the nose on my face"
SophiaSharon Larnia: ohhh (giggles)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, as the I my nose
Eliza Madrigal: hehehe
SophiaSharon Larnia: doh
Eliza Madrigal: yup, center of everything
Eliza Madrigal: You mentioned dreams, and I had a very odd but wonderful one a few weeks ago...
SophiaSharon Larnia: it does seem like a long time, but not at the same time
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh???
Eliza Madrigal: it was the first time I felt like a context dreamed me... a place...
Eliza Madrigal: and I felt that sense of no 'i' in that way... very strange to describe
SophiaSharon Larnia: snuggles down and listens
Eliza Madrigal: haha, I don't dare try to say more
SophiaSharon Larnia: ok :) maybe later
Eliza Madrigal: but sometimes we are reading and stretching in this kind of intuitive way...
Eliza Madrigal: and yet don't really let 'go' until we sleep
Eliza Madrigal: you'll be sleeping neath the stars....
SophiaSharon Larnia: all of it there
Eliza Madrigal: always there... but so many things we put in the way normally
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Bruce :)
Eliza Madrigal: I'm rambling... hehe... and eating chocolate chip cookies... that can't help
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bruce!
SophiaSharon Larnia: hahah I had a fruit smoothy earlier that went right to my head
SophiaSharon Larnia: (non alcoholic)
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, druth, Sharon, and Liza.
druth Vlodovic: hi blub
SophiaSharon Larnia: prob more sugar in it than the cookie
Eliza Madrigal smiles.. sugar rushes
Eliza Madrigal: Hola Blub
Bruce Mowbray: Blub bubbles "HI" to all.
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi blub ^^
Eliza Madrigal: yes and the next... and the next...
SophiaSharon Larnia: i do have to go, long drive in the morning and all that :)
Bruce Mowbray: And I've just popped in after a long drive here. . .
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, leaving tomorrow morning?
Bruce Mowbray: need to pop out again and go to bed.
druth Vlodovic: have fun on your trip sharon
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
SophiaSharon Larnia: ty!!
Eliza Madrigal: Night guys, safe travels and a wonderful trip
Bruce Mowbray: All be well. See you soon.
druth Vlodovic: bye bruce
SophiaSharon Larnia: you too, bye for now
Bruce Mowbray: Have a good trip, Sharon.
SophiaSharon Larnia: thank you!
Eliza Madrigal: Night Druth, good to see you again

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: Night
SophiaSharon Larnia: nite druth!!
SophiaSharon Larnia: sweet dreams