2011.08.07 01:00 - Coffee

Wol Euler was guardian for this session.

FcSeeker Resident: Hello Wol :)
Wol Euler: good morning, fc
FcSeeker Resident: smiles
Wol Euler: how are you?
FcSeeker Resident: having peace :)
FcSeeker Resident: how are you ?
Wol Euler: peace is good :)
Wol Euler: I'm ok, drinking coffee
FcSeeker Resident: having also coffee
FcSeeker Resident: with sugar this time
Wol Euler smiles.
FcSeeker Resident: some people have got a shock for my need to add sugar into the coffee late weeks
Wol Euler listens.
FcSeeker Resident: have visited often such pub to have coffee
FcSeeker Resident: and they ask 'what adds' because they want to serve it completing it
FcSeeker Resident: and I need six pieces of sugar and much cream or milk; they don't use to have cream
FcSeeker Resident: (the normal is 2 pieces of sugar)
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: you have developed a sweet tooth :)
FcSeeker Resident: at home I dont add normally anything
FcSeeker Resident: this time it's exeption
FcSeeker Resident: maybe I have visited that pub too often :))))
Wol Euler chuckles.
FcSeeker Resident: I do that drinking coffee in any publick place because my normal coffee is such that people call it to be 'tea'
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: I gave up sugar many years ago, maybe 20, except for espresso
Wol Euler: but I need a lot of cream/milk in my coffee or tea
FcSeeker Resident: aha
FcSeeker Resident: but no sugar ?
Wol Euler: except in espresso
FcSeeker Resident: <3<3

--BELL--

FcSeeker Resident: where I live there's appeared such coffee automatic systems to publick places that all can choose from very many different kind of coffees
FcSeeker Resident: have been thinking that if they do so also in the airport in Rome, many men lost their job...
Wol Euler: heh, true
FcSeeker Resident: it was awasome to see how quick they are and work hard and serve people...
Wol Euler: and the "coffee" that one gets from these machines is seldom tasty (in my experience, perhaps you have better luck)
FcSeeker Resident: I have had much better luck and also got to know more of different coffees; all has been good what I have tasted
Bertram Jacobus: heyy wol and seeker :-)
FcSeeker Resident: Hello Bertram
Wol Euler: hallo berti
Wol Euler: long time no see
Bertram Jacobus: yeah - so much to do in my life, a heavy phase so to say. sry : i would like to write brighter words ...
FcSeeker Resident: you did <3
Wol Euler sighs.
Wol Euler: sorry to hear that, bert
Bertram Jacobus: your compassion is hughe wol - so nice ! beautyful, kind ...
Wol Euler smiles.
Bertram Jacobus: ty for that and don't worry pls
Bertram Jacobus: and also seekers comment looked very kind to me - i hope, i understood it correctly ...
FcSeeker Resident: I meant that you brought also brightness telling you will
Bertram Jacobus: and i did NOT want to disturb your conversation !
FcSeeker Resident: ah; we was just chatting of coffee
Wol Euler: and sugar
Bertram Jacobus: okay. ty seeker :-)
Wol Euler: and machines versus artisans
FcSeeker Resident: <3
Wol Euler: I too was very impressed by Italian coffee-makers, fc
Wol Euler: style and grace, and often humour too
FcSeeker Resident: I fully understand
FcSeeker Resident: yes
FcSeeker Resident: it seemed that they love their job
Wol Euler: yes!
Wol Euler: they do.
Wol Euler: and it's a career, not a temporary job until something better appears
FcSeeker Resident: that I thought also
Wol Euler: they go from the little shop on the corner, to the larger one at the train station, to a grand cafe in town centre, to the big city
Wol Euler: and each step up is recognized and respected by their colleagues
FcSeeker Resident: more I've seen people to be tired to their such job on other airports and bars and so
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: "dumbing down" is a commonly used expression for this
FcSeeker Resident: aha
Wol Euler: removing initiative and intuition -- and training
Wol Euler: replacing them by simple rules that must be followed
FcSeeker Resident: <3
Wol Euler: and machines that just have one button to press
FcSeeker Resident: sigh
Wol Euler: Marx was right about workers' alienation from their products
FcSeeker Resident: so much the world seems to be 'going' to that direction
Wol Euler: but he had no idea how far it would go
Wol Euler: Pema told a tale at the retreat, of being "carded" in bars in the US recently
Wol Euler: frequently, not just one place
FcSeeker Resident: (has not much knowledge of what he truly did; only the base idea)
Wol Euler: (carded = being asked to show identity -> proof that you are old enough to drink)
Bertram Jacobus: oh
FcSeeker Resident: meaning Marx
Wol Euler: Pema is in his late fifties, clearly, but they look him in the eye and ask for ID with a straight face

--BELL--

Wol Euler: because it's in the rules. The bar-guy is not allowed to *think* about how old he might be
FcSeeker Resident: o-oooo
Bertram Jacobus: alienated ... also by "rules" and laws, sillyness, loosing many roots of rationality
FcSeeker Resident: so maybe there shall not be any drink automatic systems...
Wol Euler nods.
FcSeeker Resident: or then people need to feed such with the ID card at first...
FcSeeker Resident: hm
FcSeeker Resident: panda having some imagination ?
FcSeeker Resident: well...wish that it shall not be so much machines...
Wol Euler: agreed
FcSeeker Resident: my RL calls me back again so I wish pleasent time to you both and much strength to you Bertram on your path
FcSeeker Resident: takes a humble bow
FcSeeker Resident: namaste
Wol Euler: bye fc, take care
Wol Euler: enjoy sunday
FcSeeker Resident: U2 <3
Wol Euler smiles at Bert
Wol Euler: hello wt
Wol Euler: *qt, sorry
Qt Core: Hi Wol, Bert
Wol Euler: (new keyboard)
Bertram Jacobus: hi qt - and sry wol and seeker (for the log) : i was just distracted for a short time ... :-/
Bertram Jacobus: searching for some classical music to relax and find strengh and power a bit from it ...
Wol Euler smiles.
Bertram Jacobus: only one tiny sit left here ...
Wol Euler: and it's been ages since we had a big cat to use Adelene's pillow pile
Bertram Jacobus: adelene ? who is that ?
Wol Euler: ah :)
Wol Euler: before your time I guess
Wol Euler: she used to come here, when I started
Wol Euler: usually presented as a lioness ( four-legged, not a furry like me)
Bertram Jacobus: ah - adelene dawner - now i saw it - editing the pillow pile ;-)
Wol Euler: she and another ex-PaB guy named ThreeDee started a company to build OpenSims for people
Wol Euler: right
Bertram Jacobus: open sims - a thing i never understood so far - is it outside sl ? but with a similar software ?
Wol Euler: exactly that, bert
Bertram Jacobus: hehe. okay. then i understood :o)
Wol Euler: the viewer and server software behind SL is open source, anyone can take it and use it
Bertram Jacobus: okay. that´s really good
Wol Euler: well, yes and no :)
Bertram Jacobus: why not?
Wol Euler: SL had the great advantage of being full of people. WHen you make a private sim, nobody but you is on it.
Wol Euler: it's kinda lonely
Wol Euler: plus your identity is not constant across open sims, there is no "central registry" of avatar names
Bertram Jacobus: yes. but that doesn't make the principle of open source bad, no ?
Qt Core: :-)
Wol Euler: if you want to visit a particular sim you have to go there and register yorself on it
Wol Euler: nothing prevents somebody else from taking your name on sims you haven't visited yet
Wol Euler: no, of course it doesn't invalidate open source :)
Wol Euler: I'm talking purely about usefulness and comfort, and about identity
Bertram Jacobus: hmmm -
Bertram Jacobus: but it isn't a fault that sl is successful (?)

--BELL--

Wol Euler frowns. There's no "fault" in this at all
Wol Euler: what do you mean?
Bertram Jacobus: in contrary i think : the concept makes the success. and i must admit that i love the sl conception ... and competition as well : when somebody finds a better form to offer such - that can, may and will be - fine
Qt Core: i wonder how (if) opensom or even sl may be good to preview/show building project, city planning or simper room refurbishing
Wol Euler: that, definitely, qt. Many SL builders have open sims because it's free to upload textures there :)
Qt Core: (and i'm using my old keyboars, way to go qt
Wol Euler: uploading to SL costs L$10, and that adds up quickly. Uploading from your hard disk to your open sim is free
Wol Euler: plus it's pretty well guaranteed to be lag-free since only you are there :)
Qt Core: :-)
Bertram Jacobus: i know. but many people work on sl and must live from that. i find that legitimately
Qt Core: (i'm thinking about preview rl projects)
Wol Euler: sure, I meant while creating and editing something. You might have to modify a texture 10 or 15 times before it looks good; if you did that on SL you would pay L$10 for each upload to test it
Wol Euler: clearly when it's finished they upload it here to selll to us
Bertram Jacobus: but can't you use temporary uploads for such ? they are free (!)

This is true! Temporary textures are free and can be used normally (applied to prims and even clothing), but will be deleted by the system after some period of time. The Third Party Directory suggests that they only remain until you log out, but at least in Phoenix this is not true.

Qt Core: at a price way over the 15 x 10L$ ;-)
Bertram Jacobus: and, above that, 100 LS$ is only 30 euro cent ! ...
Wol Euler: look, I'm not claiming that it makes economic sense. I'm repeating what a builder I know told me :)
Qt Core: wonder how fast would be a sim running on my own pc with NO net between the server and the client (that is if the server would not kill it)
Bertram Jacobus: i find, contribution to such a great offer like sl is - to me it makes sense and even i personally feel it as a so to say "need" -
Wol Euler: agreed.
Bertram Jacobus: ty. i know you are generous wol ...
Qt Core: me too
Wol Euler: qt, there are some articles in the web about making your own open sim on a USB stick :)
Bertram Jacobus: wow
Qt Core: i sometimes feel guilty about not contributing back something, not even money
Wol Euler: search for "john lester" and "open sim usb"
Wol Euler: answer: it's as fast as your computer can handle, which in my case is slower than real SL :)
Qt Core: it may be a fun thing to try, but not being abuilder finding myself alone i my provate sim would be quite silly ;-)
Wol Euler: it's a pretty lonely experience
Bertram Jacobus: it's so easy to contribute, to whatever : only short ago i gave a bit for example to open office. with pay pal that is so easy ... and also here in sl there are so many ways to do such ... and where ever we give, it´s a plus so to say in my opinion. the concept of free net and free willingly contribution in such a big range of the net makes it to me - really really very worth to support (!)
Wol Euler: agreed :)
Wol Euler: I got a premium account for that reason.
Bertram Jacobus: great ! :-))
Wol Euler: blowing my own horn: I wrote about that a long time ago. http://wolworld.blogspot.com/2009/06...of-my-own.html
Bertram Jacobus: i sometimes buy some lindens and pay also to the creators - and they again pay to linden - so we all ... support each other ... everybody in the way he can do it ...
Wol Euler: well, I definitely support the in-world economy :)
Wol Euler points to her new boots
Bertram Jacobus: creators = builders, of things, clothing, skins and so on ... ;-)
Bertram Jacobus smiles widely :-)
Bertram Jacobus and takes an intense look at wol´s new boots ... ;-)

--BELL--

Bertram Jacobus: but sry : i'm a man and so ... may be a bit superficial with clothing and such - but only a bit (stress on this pls) :o)
Wol Euler: a feeble excuse.
Wol Euler: many men dress well (stylishly)
Wol Euler: :-P
Qt Core: cant really comment on it as im even worse;-)
Bertram Jacobus giggles silly and dull :o)
Wol Euler laughs.
Bertram Jacobus: poor company for such - sry for you wol ! ... :-/
Wol Euler chuckles.
Qt Core: we can still be useful, but nly outside shopping areas
Wol Euler: or for holding the bags
Wol Euler: and the credit cards
Bertram Jacobus: okay ... i must admit : i like my shoes which i currently wear ... ;-)
Wol Euler has a look
Wol Euler: yeah, those are nicely made
Bertram Jacobus: now we are deep in the aspects of the material world (!) :o)
Bertram Jacobus: hehe. ty. nice if you like them and have also a bit joy with such ... blah blah ... *giggle again*
Wol Euler: I don't believe that a contemplative, compassionate life must be joyless
Bertram Jacobus: not at all !
Wol Euler: on the contrary, appreciating appearances is encouraged :)
Bertram Jacobus: "but" the highest joy seems to be not relative
Bertram Jacobus: ok dear friends - i'll leave. ty sm for your company - always enjoy it very much - may all beings be happy pls ! ...
Wol Euler: bye bert, enjoy the day. Nice to see you again!
Qt Core: bye bert
Bertram Jacobus: ty wol ... cu ... :-) - bye qt ... cu ... :-)

The conversation changes to World of Warcraft and other games.

Qt Core: read your last post on the blog... missed half of the words (never been in WoW) :-)
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: ah, that's interesting. I put mouseover text on most of the special vocabulary, but not all browsers show that
Qt Core: haven't mouseovered ;-)
Wol Euler chuckles.
Qt Core: but it does not seem to work FF here
Wol Euler: hmm, I'm using FF too
Wol Euler: go the second-newest post, may 10
Wol Euler: there are definitely some mouseovers in that
Wol Euler: second paragraph, the word "mob"
Qt Core: yes, there there are some
Wol Euler: good :)

--BELL--

Qt Core: too interesting had to leave the page ;-)
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: thank you for that compliment :)
Wol Euler: I've writen quite a bit about WoW and the differences to SL
Qt Core: is it mostly about having goals (even if maybe only short termed) in WoW
Qt Core: (just my idea
Wol Euler: yes, that is the prime difference
Wol Euler: WoW is a self-directed game, but it IS a game
Wol Euler: there are rules and structure and a path to follow
Wol Euler: you can choose to go right or left, but you cannot choose what lies at the end of those paths
Wol Euler: which you can in SL, at least potentially every one of us is a builder and creator here
Wol Euler: and the avatars are primitive compared to ours
Wol Euler: there is only a tiny amount of customization available
Wol Euler: you can change face and hair, and skin colour, but nothing else
Qt Core: i tried a couple rpg games many years ago, before they were online and multiplayer, liked them but even then feared to fall into them too much, so now i simply stay far away
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: I'm not really a gamer, I just play WoW :)
Qt Core: sure
Wol Euler: I've discovered that what I love about WoW is the stories, the narrative that drives the quests along.
Wol Euler: ("goals" as you said)
Wol Euler: I'm finding that it goes too fast, in fact :)
Wol Euler: I can't get all the quests done! The world is huge, there are far more quests and narratives than any single character could possibly do
Qt Core: well, sl is usualy slow amd here at pab we tale it even slower i think
Wol Euler: heh, yes
Wol Euler: a nice contrast
Wol Euler: if you are curious, there's a really good book about WoW in English, "My life as a night elf priest" by Bonnie Nardi
Qt Core: i see the healer, almost templar like in the rush of the battle and then retiting in solitude to meditate and regaing energy, both phisical and psycici ;-)
Wol Euler: hehe, that would be a Paladin actually :)
Wol Euler: healers are very weak, they don't last a second in battle
Wol Euler: paladins are the holy fighters
Wol Euler: (they can heal too, that is right)
Qt Core: and i guess they can't use much armor as that wpuld stop their auras ?
Wol Euler: priests have no armour at all, only robes of cloth
Wol Euler: paladins in WoW can wear armour, even heavy armour

--BELL--

Qt Core: wondering wich species and class i would chose a elf ninja mage perhaps ;-) no heavy armor but stealth and deadly
Wol Euler: um, that would be a rogue in WoW
Wol Euler: rogues are the ones that sneak up on people and stab them in the back :)
Wol Euler: it's a very exciting role
Wol Euler: you can pick people's pockets before you ambush them :)
Qt Core: wonders about what someone could find in a troll pocket...
Wol Euler: money!
Wol Euler: once you kill an enemy, you can pick from its armour and weapons, and whatever it had in its backpack
Qt Core: why to kill if you would not ? ;-)
Wol Euler: well, because a quest requires it. "These vile ents are destroying the forest. Kill them please!"
Wol Euler: actually there are two layers of narrative in WoW
Wol Euler: the normal layer is us against them, territorial war over resources and ground
Wol Euler: Alliance against Horde
Wol Euler: with some minor third parties who get in the way and get hurt
Wol Euler: but there is a second, higher, layer: that all of us including the third parties are menaced by powers on the scale of the entire planet, who want ALL of us enslaved or killed
Wol Euler: Alliance vs Horde is a bit like Lithuania and Estonia squabbling about their borders, while Stalin collects an 8-million man army on the other side of the river
Wol Euler smiles at herself. I get carried away with this, sorry.
Qt Core: players choose between the twwo factions (or even the third) whille the bigger enemy is computer ?
Wol Euler: yes but :)
Wol Euler: we choose alliance or horde for ourselves; we can play against other human players, and the computer generates the rest
Qt Core: np about being carried away when there isn't something more pressing around :-)
Wol Euler smiles.
Qt Core: ... and sometimes even when there is ;-)
Wol Euler: heheheh
Qt Core: i find it funny that the pc games i use most is minesweeper ;-)
Wol Euler laughs.
Wol Euler: a fine game, I spent many happy hours there

--BELL--

Qt Core: (i always found idiotic the change to the flowers)
Wol Euler: huh, don't know thtat. I haven't played it since Win95
Qt Core: they changed the mines into flower, with mines it was a evil violent game, wit flowers it is gentle and even green
Wol Euler: oh dear
Wol Euler: :)
Qt Core: ok, time to go, have a nice day Wol
Wol Euler: bye qt, enjoy sunday
Wol Euler: nice of you to listen to me today :)
Wol Euler: sorry for babbling
Qt Core: it was nice
Wol Euler: ty :)
Wol Euler: bfn
Qt Core: bye