2011.08.30 13:00 - Material Imagination and Mystery

The guardian for this session was Bruce Mowbray.  The editing and comments are by Bruce Mowbray.

 

Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Bertram.

Bertram Jacobus: hey folks :-)

Bertram Jacobus: hi santo

Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Santo.

Bertram Jacobus: hey korel

Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Korel.

Santoshima: hello riddle, bruce, bertram, corvi, dari (away), korel

Santoshima: how is everyone?

Bertram Jacobus: here it´s okay. ty santo - and you ? :-)

Santoshima: very well ... enjoying the day ... glad to be here with you

Dash Earthboy: hey y'all

Bruce Mowbray: Enjoying a beautiful Tuesday afternoon, thanks, Santo.

Santoshima: her dash

Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Dash.

Bertram Jacobus: hii dash :-)

Santoshima: hey

Bertram Jacobus: we didn't meet before, right santo ? :-)

Santoshima: you know ... i think that's right, bertram

Santoshima: good to meet you!

Bertram Jacobus: ty. same same :-)

Bertram Jacobus: pab is a big group, luckily ... :-)

Dash Earthboy: Riddle, how was the interview?

Bruce Mowbray: yes, sometimes more than I can keep track of, Bert.

Bertram Jacobus: what kind of interview was that ?

Daryl Taov: hello all :)

Daryl Taov: sorry, was afk ;)

Dash Earthboy: hey Daryl

Bertram Jacobus: hi dari ;-)

Santoshima: hi dari ~

Bruce Mowbray: Hey again, Daryl.

Daryl Taov: hey bruce :)

Bruce Mowbray: Do you prefer Dari or Daryl?

Dash Earthboy: hey Aph

Bruce Mowbray: Hey Aph.

Daryl Taov: dari is fine :)

Bruce Mowbray: OK Thanks! ;-)

Bertram Jacobus: hi aph ! ;-)

Daryl Taov: hey dash, santo :)

Santoshima: hi aph

Aphrodite Macbain: Yey Dash and Bruce and Santo

Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Korel, Riddle, Daryl, Corvu

Aphrodite Macbain: and Bertram

Daryl Taov: hey aph :)

Bertram Jacobus: :-)

Bertram Jacobus: how did you find sl santo ?

Bertram Jacobus: hi zon ... :-)

Santoshima: through a friend who attends PaB

Dash Earthboy: hey Zon

Zon Kwan: helloo

Santoshima: that person invited me

Bertram Jacobus: ah. really good santo - nice ... :-)

Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Zon.

Bertram Jacobus: a hidden person santo ? ;-)

Santoshima: i had not experienced anything of virtual ... worlds

Santoshima: the concept was weird

Bertram Jacobus: wow - and now ... how are your impressions ?

Santoshima: but it's getting to be something a little more familiar

Santoshima: as much as say, email

Bertram Jacobus: many people think about all this without knowing much ... hm

Bertram Jacobus: yeah - i see ... :-)

Santoshima: it's more than that though

Bertram Jacobus: i find it fascinating

Santoshima: multi-dimensional

Bertram Jacobus: oh yes. much mire i find

Dash Earthboy: hey Susan

iwandertoo: waves 2 every 1

Bertram Jacobus: hi iwander :-)

Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Susan.

Santoshima: hi susan

Daryl Taov: hi !=

Dash Earthboy: hey Sam

Aphrodite Macbain: Aphrodite Macbain waves at Susan

Aphrodite Macbain: Aphrodite Macbain waves at Sam

Bruce Mowbray looks around for Sam.

Bertram Jacobus: hi sam ! :-)

oO0Oo: oO0Oo waves

Bruce Mowbray: OH! Hey, Sam!

Santoshima: waves back at Sam

Corvuscorva Nightfire arrives in spirit as well as body

Corvuscorva Nightfire: virtual body anyway

Santoshima: welcome Corvi!

Corvuscorva Nightfire: hey ya'll!

Bertram Jacobus: hi corvi :-)

Bruce Mowbray: The whole existence of virtual worlds (if they exist at all) brings into question my own "existence."

oO0Oo: :)))

Aphrodite Macbain: I avi therefore I am

Bertram Jacobus: which questions are that bruce ?

Daryl Taov: "too bad world of warcraft ruined my second life"

Bruce Mowbray: [13:08] Santoshima: i had not experienced anything of virtual ... worlds

 [13:09] Santoshima: the concept was weir

Santoshima: "weird"

Bruce Mowbray: ;-)

Bruce Mowbray didn't think that "weir" was weird.

Santoshima: :)

Bertram Jacobus: hm - i knew that i wanted to be in sl before i knew it ;-)

Bruce Mowbray ponders virtual spellings.

Bruce Mowbray: Please say more, Bert.

 

BELL

 

Bertram Jacobus: i saw that computer techniques would give the possibilities of virtual wnces for us and i hoped to be in it before i die - it r then i had thought - really nice came much fasteorlds and experie

Bertram Jacobus: sry

Bruce Mowbray: np. Bert.

Santoshima: it's good!

Aphrodite Macbain: that was prescient of you Bert

Bertram Jacobus: it developed faster then i had expected it - and my laptop mixes letters up ...

Bertram Jacobus: i find it very clear - because that's what we want : to make nice experiences

Bertram Jacobus: "all people want to be happy and avoid suffering"

Bertram Jacobus: and the computer techniques can give us a lot of that

Bertram Jacobus: the movie AVATAR shows how it will go on

Aphrodite Macbain: and SL has the potential to alleviate suffering do you think, Bert?

Corvuscorva Nightfire: one possibility anyway

Bruce Mowbray: I wish that the "solutions" in the movie AVATAR had not been so violent --- but I needed to suspend my bias about that.

Aphrodite Macbain: Do you think we behave differently in SL ? (apart from flying and TPing)

Santoshima: different from what?

Corvuscorva Nightfire: yes

Aphrodite Macbain: RL

Bruce Mowbray: Good question, Aph -- I don't behave differently in Sl, or at least I don't think that I do.

Bertram Jacobus: oh yes aph i thinks so very much : old people for example or some with disabilities and many more can benefit from it

Corvuscorva Nightfire: being incorporeal has it's advantages

Aphrodite Macbain: but do our personalities change?

Corvuscorva Nightfire: and one may find typing words allows us to speak different thoughts

Bruce Mowbray: I am the same in all worlds.

Bertram Jacobus: but one will be more and more be incorporated in the virtual world in future as well, I'm convinced

Bertram Jacobus: our personalities change always ...

Bruce Mowbray: More embodied?

Zon Kwan: our personality changes every moment

Aphrodite Macbain: I find I speak more (maybe that's not a good thing)

Bertram Jacobus: yes bruce

iwandertoo: nods w/bruce

Santoshima: personality is fluid, and relational

Bertram Jacobus: 5 zon :-)

Aphrodite Macbain: 5?

Corvuscorva Nightfire: I like what Santo said about personality

Bertram Jacobus: ("gimme 5") ;o)

Aphrodite Macbain: :-)

Bruce Mowbray ponders a more embodied avi

Bertram Jacobus: ( alias bingo) :o)

Dash Earthboy: hey Arch

Aphrodite Macbain: here comes one now

Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Arch.

Dash Earthboy: nice of you to drop in :)

Santoshima: howdy arch, brought your angel?

Aphrodite Macbain: nice dropping Arch

Corvuscorva Nightfire: waves

Bruce Mowbray: We'll all be dropping in 3 minutes.

oO0Oo: Heya arch

Dash Earthboy: ?

Corvuscorva Nightfire: so to say "I am the same in sl"

Bruce Mowbray: Sorry, Dash, for the "we" reference.

Dash Earthboy: ty

Corvuscorva Nightfire: I mean...I am the same..but in a new context

Bertram Jacobus: to me sl is rl as well ;-)

Corvuscorva Nightfire: and behave differently

Corvuscorva Nightfire: as I would behave differently

Aphrodite Macbain: yes, so if you behave differently, something has changed

Corvuscorva Nightfire: if you stuck me in spain

Zon Kwan: same but different, yes

Bertram Jacobus: as always : things have similarities and differences ...

Bertram Jacobus: hii wol :-)

Archmage Atlantis: Yes Aph, to behave differently is to change things

iwandertoo: consistent with who you are?

Bertram Jacobus: miss euler ...

Corvuscorva Nightfire: Corvuscorva Nightfire grins at Wol

Wol Euler: hello my invisible dears

Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Wol

Archmage Atlantis: Full circle

Dash Earthboy: hey Wol

oO0Oo: Hiya Wol

Wol Euler: Wol Euler cheers!

Santoshima: hello Wol

Archmage Atlantis: Yet not

Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Wol!

Dash Earthboy: full circle yes

Archmage Atlantis: As the circle extends outside the middle

Archmage Atlantis: there are cushions beyond this fountain

Bertram Jacobus: archie archie ... ;o)

Daryl Taov: being different from what you are in RL can be really interesting too

Archmage Atlantis: oomg, the 12

Corvuscorva Nightfire: smiles at Dari...

Wol Euler listens.

Daryl Taov: exploring how people perceive you

Aphrodite Macbain: There are lots of cushions. Lots of room

Bertram Jacobus: so many possibilities here ! ... :-)

Aphrodite Macbain: Lots of time

Daryl Taov: you are also what people perceive and get back at you

Daryl Taov: like a reflecting skin of pixels

Wol Euler nods to Dari

oO0Oo: *

Daryl Taov: not only, but part

Bertram Jacobus: endlessnesses ... :-)

Daryl Taov: +1 bert :)

Bertram Jacobus: :-)

Archmage Atlantis: infinity, Bert, all is infinite

Aphrodite Macbain: likes the concept of pixel-like skin

Corvuscorva Nightfire: that's a good point, Dari

Corvuscorva Nightfire: that being in sl means we can be ourselves in different forms

Zon Kwan: life is a search of our true self.....

Corvuscorva Nightfire: and see how that changes us in the world

Bertram Jacobus: that's my impression as well arch

Archmage Atlantis: Yes Zon

Wol Euler: Wol Euler nods to Corvi

Bertram Jacobus: life may simply be movement

Aphrodite Macbain: and energy translated into shape

Archmage Atlantis: Brownian motion.....simple, created .....complex

Daryl Taov: well, matter is energy, right ? :)

Bertram Jacobus: matter can be everything, no ?

Archmage Atlantis: A direct answer, Dari....matter is a subset of energy

 

BELL

 

oO0Oo: endless possibilities into the drop

Zon Kwan: what's the matter

Archmage Atlantis: Indeed Zon (he says violating the silence)

Daryl Taov: bachelard has an awesome vision of what he calls the difference between formal (figurative) imagination and material (concrete) imagination

Daryl Taov: meaning that to imagine things as textures is more powerful than imagination in forms and patterns

oO0Oo: ;) Arch..

Daryl Taov: Aphrodite Macbain: Bachelard? Please say more Daryl

Daryl Taov: bachelard was a french scientist, poet and semioticist

Daryl Taov: he had a huge impact

Daryl Taov: on everything from dreams to poetry to actual semiotics

Aphrodite Macbain: Aphrodite Macbain takes notes

Daryl Taov: he is often found in the psychoanalysis section, like bettelheim, but he s actually much more of a pioneer in the science of the invisible

Archmage Atlantis: 2 days ago, I received an email....the person said my Y genomone had been misread

Aphrodite Macbain: the science of the invisible = quantum theory?

Archmage Atlantis: A question was raised, and the gene lab was asked to respond

Daryl Taov: not really aph

Zon Kwan: o imagine things as textures..what does that mean?

Daryl Taov: more like dreams and the space in between

Daryl Taov: well

Daryl Taov: actually

Daryl Taov: you dream in textures

Zon Kwan: ? in text ?

Aphrodite Macbain: ah. this is interesting. I have never noticed that. I'm not sure if I even dream in colour

Daryl Taov: no, texture, meaning literally, matter

susan & bruce have departed quietly

That is healthy to me

Dash Earthboy: and Bruce is back!

Daryl Taov: yay

Aphrodite Macbain: bruce never really left...

 

(Bruce's whole computer crashed and needed rebooting.)

 

Wol Euler: I see the inside of my eyelids with increasing frequency. Goodnight all, I'm just too tired for this.

Archmage Atlantis: That one departs for quiet.....it may not mean one has disengaged

Wol Euler: take care, be pixelly

Santoshima: 'night Wol, sleep tight

Corvuscorva Nightfire: night wol

Dash Earthboy: g'nite Wol

oO0Oo: Night Wol..

Aphrodite Macbain: what do they look like Wol?

Bruce Mowbray apologizes -- The whole computer crashed. . . not just SL.

Aphrodite Macbain: but you're still with us. Yay

Dash Earthboy: *wonders if Riddle is still with us :\

Bertram Jacobus: ara ! ... :-)

Archmage Atlantis: Hello Arabella

Dash Earthboy: hey Arabella

arabella Ella: Hiya!

Corvuscorva Nightfire: waves

Santoshima: hello arabella

Archmage Atlantis: To what do we owe this magical appearance?

Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Ara.

arabella Ella: Hey Bert haven't seen u in years :)

oO0Oo: Hi Arabella. Nice to see you!

Aphrodite Macbain wonders whether anyone is really with us

Dash Earthboy: SL years?

Aphrodite Macbain: GTSY Ara

Bertram Jacobus: to the universe arch

Archmage Atlantis: TL Years, QL years.....infinity at work

Zon Kwan: wonders if we are or just play as being

Bertram Jacobus: same same - looong time ara ! :-)

Corvuscorva Nightfire: Bruce, earlier you said you were the same in sl and rl

Corvuscorva Nightfire: what is the same in the two?

Aphrodite Macbain thanks the universe

Bruce Mowbray: I do not alter my personality in either world.

Corvuscorva Nightfire: but what is it that doesn't alter?

Bruce Mowbray: or at least I am not aware that I do.

Archmage Atlantis: Bruce.......is that truth?

Zon Kwan: i change it everyday

Corvuscorva Nightfire: smiles at Zon

arabella Ella: hallo again :)

Bruce Mowbray: yes, it is the truth, as far as I am able to discern it.

Corvuscorva Nightfire: I know that for me, some things do stay the same

 

BELL

 

Aphrodite Macbain: context is everything

Zon Kwan: nods

Archmage Atlantis: Koya says hello to Blub.......She is not an easy tiger to live with.......thinks she is fated

Corvuscorva Nightfire: I totally believe it is truth..but I am very curious about what it means

Bruce Mowbray: Blub waves an affectionate and respectful fin at Koya.

Santoshima: re: personality

Zon Kwan: only thing that remains same is change

Archmage Atlantis: Arethra Franklin R E S P E C T

Santoshima: Sotigui Kouyate The wise man of the stage - African storyteller - Interview

 "I come from a culture where nature is very important in a person's life. Your soul is first incarnated in a tree, then in an animal and then in a living human being. Some people are even named after trees. All this means everything in the world is alive. Unfortunately, humans increasingly think they're the only living beings on earth.

  In French, you can point to someone and say "there's a person." In several African languages, when you say ''person,'' the word is followed by something that means roughly "the person of the person." That is, each human being comprises many identities, which are in fact other people. Daily life is about discovering all these beings within. This can only happen through meeting other people.

  "When you meet another, instead of losing yourself in his eyes, recognize yourself-and perhaps you'll see yourself," the saying goes. Our wise men tell us that ignorance is the worst thing that can happen to anyone, worse than illness or death. And the most ignorant person of all, they say, is someone who has never stepped outside his or her house."

 source:

 http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1310/is_2001_Oct/ai_79560863/

oO0Oo adjusts spectacles

Corvuscorva Nightfire: smiles at Sam

Bruce Mowbray: Kinship with all life, Santo?

Santoshima: ... sorry ... had a rush of online reading ...

Bruce Mowbray: Thanks for sharing it.

Aphrodite Macbain: Yesterday Eos talked about simply being his "schleppy constantly failing self." I wonder where that fits here

Archmage Atlantis: It is our planet, our beginning

Archmage Atlantis: Our is human, ape

Aphrodite Macbain: perhaps we should talk about ever-failing selves

Archmage Atlantis: Our is cat, dog

Zon Kwan: person means originally mask

Archmage Atlantis: our is oyster, lobster

Zon Kwan: through which actors spoke

Bertram Jacobus: sry dear pabers - I'll leave, am tired - may all beings be happy please

Archmage Atlantis: our is all that is created from this dust

oO0Oo: 8!

Dash Earthboy: bye Bert

Corvuscorva Nightfire: sleep well Bertram

oO0Oo: yes Bertram yes

Aphrodite Macbain: I am interested in the concept of seeing myself in another's eyes. I'm not sure what that really means though

arabella Ella: g night Bert lovely to see you!

oO0Oo: Joy be with you

Aphrodite Macbain: Sleep well Bert

Bertram Jacobus: ty all ! :-))

Corvuscorva Nightfire: what is it that interests you in the idea, Aph?

Daryl Taov: bye :)

oO0Oo: Some say losing surety is a good sign

Archmage Atlantis: A song minstrel.......that's u Dash, if you can't see it

Dash Earthboy: :)

Dash Earthboy: lullaby?

Archmage Atlantis: open to a vote

arabella Ella: yes please Dash

Aphrodite Macbain: Seeing myself in someone else. What does that mean? Does that mean that I recognize some of my personality? Or does it just mean my ego is searching for other sympathetic egos?

Corvuscorva Nightfire: or perhaps that you are searching to understand that person better?

Aphrodite Macbain: Just thinking about Santo's quote

Corvuscorva Nightfire: and looking for ways that are easiest?

Aphrodite Macbain: and also still interested in the texture of dreams

arabella Ella: Aph I think if we were to see ourselves from another person's eyes we would end up not even recognising ourselves it would seem to be a totally different person

Zon Kwan: we all are searching ourselves from all things and persons

Aphrodite Macbain: Perhaps Corvu.

Archmage Atlantis: I heard there was a secret chord

Aphrodite Macbain: arabella- that would be very frightening - myself as an alien being

Bruce Mowbray: 'Seeing ourselves as others see us. . . '  is a sort of koan.

Daryl Taov: the way i see it is, to see someone for what (s)he is, one has first to know how to see inside him/her first

Dash Earthboy: :)@Aph

Daryl Taov: you cant project what you don't know

Zon Kwan: but others are ourselves

Daryl Taov: that is the way to work with autistics

Corvuscorva Nightfire: what is, Dari?

Bruce Mowbray loves the notion of no self/other dichotomy.

Daryl Taov: to see their world, and not shape them to yours, you have to understand how to see a world first

Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods.

Archmage Atlantis: Autistics, or artists....Dash?

Aphrodite Macbain: "one has first to know how to see inside him/her first" see inside?

Daryl Taov: yeah, both are close enough ahah

Daryl Taov: or very small children

Aphrodite Macbain: how does one "see inside"?

Daryl Taov: with their own strange psyche

Daryl Taov: like newborn

arabella Ella: I like what you said Dari about not shaping others into what we want them to be

arabella Ella: or to our expectations

Zon Kwan: when i see inside me and don't find any i anywhere

Daryl Taov: there are people who want you to be exactly as you are

Aphrodite Macbain: exactly Zon

Archmage Atlantis: Dari, you stay......not something I expected

Daryl Taov: stay, sorry ?

arabella Ella: would that not be the best attitude Dari?

arabella Ella: people who want us to be just as we are

Daryl Taov: yes

arabella Ella: it would mean so much less conflict in relationships and in life in general

Bruce Mowbray: I experience my "I" as a log that's being passed along from one person to another -- (in the case of self-concept "I", from one moment-memory to another.)

Archmage Atlantis: Conflict is not the enemy

Zon Kwan: nods

Aphrodite Macbain: first they have to know what we are before they want us to stay that way

 

BELL

 

Zon Kwan: we want to be same and change others

oO0Oo: This is interesting. It relates to some ideas about experimenting here. i wonder if we asked ourself a question... then let each person in the circle, in turn, give a spontaneous insight answer... what we might find out.

Daryl Taov: i m not sure, aph, maybe it is a tolerance, non judgmental thing first

Dash Earthboy: pax et bonum y'all

Archmage Atlantis: I support Samuo's method

Aphrodite Macbain: I have found people see things in me that are not really there and are disappointed when they find out they aren't

Santoshima: bye dash

arabella Ella: nite Dash!

Daryl Taov: that s what i meant : judgment

Aphrodite Macbain: Bye

Aphrodite Macbain: Bye! dash

Daryl Taov: trying to force a perception on you

Aphrodite Macbain: OK Sam, let's try it

Daryl Taov: but i can try to let you be

Daryl Taov: as you are

arabella Ella: ok Sam ... what's the question?

Daryl Taov: without assuming anything

Corvuscorva Nightfire: I hate when that happens Aph

Zon Kwan: waves

Corvuscorva Nightfire: when people project their own hopes or fears on you...and you can't live up to them

Aphrodite Macbain: Aphrodite Macbain smiles at Corvu

Aphrodite Macbain: It happens a lot

Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods.

Archmage Atlantis: Feel uncomfortable and hate are not the same in SE US English

Corvuscorva Nightfire: I bet

oO0Oo: sorry was reading back

Corvuscorva Nightfire: Arch..what are you talking about? I'm confused?

Daryl Taov: not to say it is not happening, just saying some people understand these things and want to move forward

Aphrodite Macbain: no rush

Aphrodite Macbain: 0

oO0Oo: yes.. well we (sorry dash) are awash in projections.. our own and that of others.. It seems to me that none of us holds the full truth in any given moment, but that we all have some meaningful facet of it.

oO0Oo: let's see... question.

Aphrodite Macbain: Aphrodite Macbain nods at Daryl

Corvuscorva Nightfire: nicely said, Sam

oO0Oo: I wonder why I judge others?

Daryl Taov: interestingly, SL has this thing with non judgment. since avs are tough to "read" we suspend all judgment until later, sometimes postponed forever

Daryl Taov: the problem with that is friendship

Corvuscorva Nightfire: ah nice

Aphrodite Macbain: Is that the Question Sam?

Archmage Atlantis: I wonder why the women are on the other side than the men

oO0Oo: I wonder if others see sadness or pain behind some attempts at humor I make?

oO0Oo: <__

Archmage Atlantis: In this circle

arabella Ella: interesting Dari about SL and judgments wow

Aphrodite Macbain: <_ =?

Corvuscorva Nightfire: what do you mean the problem is with friendship?

Santoshima: and .... is that the question? ... pain and sadness suffuses the light here

Daryl Taov: well, because you can't judge, sometimes it is tough to make friends, because there is no body communication, or crude one

Daryl Taov: and sometimes you just "see" someone, fleetingly, then this concept evaporates and the avs is someone else

Daryl Taov: who am i trying to make friends with?  you, or your avs as a proxy between our souls ?

arabella Ella: or the opposite Dar, there are less RL inhibitions like shyness to keep us back from speaking to random strangers

Daryl Taov: am i loving the messenger or the message ? :)

Daryl Taov: true, ara

Aphrodite Macbain: is this about friendship or snap judgments?

arabella Ella: sometimes i find we even tend to ask more direct questions to our friends here than we may do in RL

Aphrodite Macbain: we?

arabella Ella: but what you say brings to mind the Johari window ... anyone familiar with that?

oO0Oo: (sorry Dash)

Daryl Taov: nope, what is, ara ?

arabella Ella: it is a grid with four spaces

arabella Ella: like a matrix

arabella Ella: my perception about myself

arabella Ella: my perception about what others think of me

arabella Ella: others actual perception of me

oO0Oo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johari_window

Aphrodite Macbain: Aphrodite Macbain remembers now

arabella Ella: and what others think that I think is their perception of me

arabella Ella: (more or less from memory so maybe some errors)

Aphrodite Macbain: thanks o

Bruce Mowbray: thanks, Sam.

Daryl Taov: amazing

arabella Ella: and i think as Dari said in SL it is all somehow yet once more removed

Daryl Taov: thanks ara

Daryl Taov: here is the window diagram

Daryl Taov: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/File:Johari_Window.PNG

arabella Ella: the avi as intermediary

Aphrodite Macbain: as interpreter

Corvuscorva Nightfire: I feel sometimes like it's clearer

Daryl Taov: yeah, so, then we are in a conceptual place, where we all have facades

Corvuscorva Nightfire: when everyone is beautiful

Bruce Mowbray: so, the avi is but an instrument, like the cell phone or the TV?  Somehow, I feel Bruce is more than that.

Corvuscorva Nightfire: so that no one is particularly so

Daryl Taov: totally corvu

Archmage Atlantis: Yes, Bruce is more

Archmage Atlantis: And really obstinate

Daryl Taov: that's where the material imagination of Bachelard comes in, bruce

Bruce Mowbray: thanks, Arch! ;-)

arabella Ella: the avi is an image, a projection, an interface ... and more too

Bruce Mowbray: ha ha!

Bruce Mowbray dies from laughing....

Daryl Taov: the thing is, we have a formal tool, the av

Daryl Taov: and now, to get deeper

Daryl Taov: we need to feel the texture of it

Daryl Taov: what is it made of

Corvuscorva Nightfire dies with Bruce

Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods to Dari

Archmage Atlantis: death is not the end

Aphrodite Macbain tries to figure out the joke again

Bruce Mowbray: Nope, I'm still here.

oO0Oo: open the windows.. to allow more than concepts to speak.. so to speak

Daryl Taov: so, basically

Bruce Mowbray is not sure about his typist, though.

Corvuscorva Nightfire: it's because you are so stubborn, Bruce

Daryl Taov: we are all becoming empaths

Daryl Taov: we can deduce thoughts from pixels

Aphrodite Macbain: Bruce is stubborn?

arabella Ella: arabella Ella nods

Bruce Mowbray: please define "empaths" -- Is that someone who can feel another's feelings through his/her avi?

arabella Ella: (nods to Dari not about Bruce!)

Aphrodite Macbain: Samuo

Archmage Atlantis: Ok, I have a 17 yo cat who thinks my belly is paradise.......really......paradise?......more inconvenient

Bruce Mowbray: No -- Arch is right -- I AM stubborn!

 

BELL

 

Daryl Taov: empath towards pixels as carrier of thoughts

Daryl Taov: if an av is the psycho of the player behind

Daryl Taov: the person of the person

Daryl Taov: not psycho, psyche, sorry

Daryl Taov: if the av is the psyche of the player behind

Daryl Taov: then can we touch the person of the person of the person ahahah

Daryl Taov: reflecting pixel skin

arabella Ella: i think there are sometimes moments when we can do so

Archmage Atlantis: I like psycho..more accurate in the "real' world

Daryl Taov: i think so too, ara

Daryl Taov: the more we are inworld the more we develop this new sensibility

arabella Ella: arabella Ella nods

Bruce Mowbray wants to check more deeply into "material imagination of bachelard"

arabella Ella: it takes time and friendship needs to be developed over time too for that sensitivity to develop

Santoshima: yes

Daryl Taov: yes

Archmage Atlantis: Trust is meant to be broken....that is the true test

Corvuscorva Nightfire: what?

Corvuscorva Nightfire: Arch

Corvuscorva Nightfire: that makes no sense to me

Archmage Atlantis: None of us are truly worthy of trust

Corvuscorva Nightfire: okay

arabella Ella: the true test of non-friendship?

Aphrodite Macbain: really it's the words only that we connect with, not the avi his/herself

Corvuscorva Nightfire: that makes sense to me

Bruce Mowbray: agrees with Arch on unworthiness....

arabella Ella: Aph i think we can connect to the person behind the avi

Bruce Mowbray: but willing to take the immersive leap.

Daryl Taov: ah, here is a nice quote

Daryl Taov: "I draw the phrase "material imagination" from Gaston Bachelard, who uses it to describe two intersecting things: firstly, the ways in which the material world is imagined, not just by scientists and engineers, but by everyone, all the time: poets, children, footballers, cultural analysts, cabdrivers, medics and mad Hatters: the "material imagination", then, as the way in which matter is imagined. In an age of conventional skepticism, in which the mind is always, as a Beckett character says, "Be on the alert against itself", the prescribed move to make at this point is to doubt whether one can ever look steadily at anything other than one's own conceptions or categories. But where do these conceptions and categories come from? For there is no way of imagining the nature of the material world which does not draw on and operate in terms of that material world, its spaces, substances, stresses, processes. Imagination is itself always prepossessed by the world that it attempts to imagine,"

Archmage Atlantis: I hesitate to use the word , yet we are all worthy of love, made up, like the gingerbread-man inquiring into the question of his dough, of what it makes out. So the phrase "material imagination" must signify the materiality of imagining as well as the imagination of the material."

Aphrodite Macbain: yes i agree ara, but it's thru their words more than their visual presence

Archmage Atlantis: Even the damn mosquitos

Corvuscorva Nightfire: but I think we infer more than from words in sl

Bruce Mowbray: So, Daryl, the material world (like the SL world) is self-referential.

Corvuscorva Nightfire: we look at people's choices..in a larger context of their other choices

oO0Oo takes off spectacles and rubs red indentations on sides of nose..

oO0Oo:  so... how might we find a way to open to these Johari windows.. all orientated around this fountain together as we are?

Corvuscorva Nightfire: just as we do in rl

Bruce Mowbray likes "Be on the alert against itself" -- from the Bachelard quote.

Archmage Atlantis: Sam!

Aphrodite Macbain: perhaps we stop talking and listen

Archmage Atlantis: we are doing it

Bruce Mowbray: wonderful question and challenge, oO0Oo.

Daryl Taov: it's more about how can we feel the imagination without judging it

Bruce Mowbray: another wonderful point, Dari.

Bruce Mowbray: Kiss the joy as it flies without asking too many questions.

oO0Oo nods

Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods

Archmage Atlantis: Good time to say

Aphrodite Macbain nods

Santoshima: some don't think in words, ... words, pictures, sounds, thoughts ... it's all mind stuff, all material / Johari window is a simple tool to begin to understand relationship/relational existence ... er ...

Santoshima: uhm

Corvuscorva Nightfire listens

Santoshima: imo

Archmage Atlantis: Blessings, Namaste....and peace to my friends.

Santoshima: bye arch

Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye Arch

arabella Ella: bye Arch

Aphrodite Macbain: but we are all sitting here reading words

Bruce Mowbray: G'night, Arch. really glad to see you here.

Aphrodite Macbain: Aphrodite Macbain waves at Arch

oO0Oo: Bye Arch

Corvuscorva Nightfire: and watching the timing of them, too

Bruce Mowbray realizes that he's immersively waving to an empty space.

Corvuscorva Nightfire: and how we choose to place them against other's words

Aphrodite Macbain smiles at Corvu

Corvuscorva Nightfire: smiles.

Aphrodite Macbain: concrete poetry

Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods.

arabella Ella: well to begin with we definitely have words and language to base our understanding of others on here in SL but there is more too

Corvuscorva Nightfire: more than connotation and denotation

arabella Ella: and trust gets to be built on more than mere words

Corvuscorva Nightfire: say more Ara!

Aphrodite Macbain: But it is the words, the language that we write, record and remember

Bruce Mowbray: Words often are an obstacle to trust, actually.

arabella Ella: there is also action

arabella Ella: and consistency

Daryl Taov: Aph, poetry IS concrete

arabella Ella: and the image counts to a greater or lesser extent depending on individual

Corvuscorva Nightfire: action...like showing up

arabella Ella: yes Corvi

Santoshima: consistency counts for a lot

Corvuscorva Nightfire: or making a recorder for the space

Corvuscorva Nightfire: or making the space

Bruce Mowbray: showing up and being present when you're there.

Aphrodite Macbain: Words don't say it all, I agree, but our means of communicating IS thru words

Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods.

Corvuscorva Nightfire: thinks

Corvuscorva Nightfire: but there is more that we are getting information from, than the words themselves

arabella Ella: moreover we don't only speak, we listen and wait for others to say what they wish with full respect

Aphrodite Macbain: yes? what then Corvu?

Corvuscorva Nightfire: That Riddle has chosen to enter sl with no belongings is information

Bruce Mowbray: agrees with Aph and also with Corvi -- MUCH more than mere words is happening here.

arabella Ella: and we can express compassion for example also with silence

Corvuscorva Nightfire: me points to his Avatar rendering cost as "1"

Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods to Arabella

Corvuscorva Nightfire: good point

Aphrodite Macbain: then, how is this other stuff communicated?

Corvuscorva Nightfire: well, I see Riddle's avatar and the choices he's made

Aphrodite Macbain: Are we discussing some form of mysticism?

Corvuscorva Nightfire: and my own

Corvuscorva Nightfire: not at all!

oO0Oo: point about listening Ara* yes

arabella Ella: no mysticism here

Corvuscorva Nightfire: just that there is more than words to pick information from

Bruce Mowbray: I regard empathetic relationships as mystical, yes, Aph.

arabella Ella: maybe some intuition but not mystic stuff

Aphrodite Macbain: mystic stuff...

Bruce Mowbray probably defines "mystical" differently from others.

Aphrodite Macbain: yes. I think of mystical something that is not defined, something almost uncanny

Aphrodite Macbain: that goes beyond the rational perhaps

Corvuscorva Nightfire: that storm chose to build this pavilion is information

Corvuscorva Nightfire: and I got it not from words

oO0Oo: *"how can we feel the imagination without judging it?"*

Aphrodite Macbain: from images

 

BELL

 

Bruce Mowbray: I'm much broader in my definition of it -- Anything that I don't understand is mystical to me - - beginning with my own existence.

Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods.

Daryl Taov: ah, samud, good question

Aphrodite Macbain: Aphrodite Macbain smiles at Bruce. Yes.

Daryl Taov: now is the time to talk about practice

Daryl Taov: usually the first path is to work with dreams

Daryl Taov: it is the best place to start

Bruce Mowbray: How can we experience ANYTHING without making judgments of it?

Daryl Taov: by not being aware, bruce

Aphrodite Macbain: can we not enjoy something without judging it?

arabella Ella: we can learn to suspend judgment Bruce. it is a skill that can be learned

Daryl Taov: by releasing meta-cognition

Bruce Mowbray: you mean, "without-thinking"?

Daryl Taov: no, without knowing that we think

Daryl Taov: that is the dream state

Aphrodite Macbain: @arabella agrees

Bruce Mowbray: Hmmmm.

Daryl Taov: experiencing things as they come, not as we perceive them

Bruce Mowbray: Bruce Mowbray likes the phrase "meta-cognition."

Daryl Taov: it is actually a scientific term

Aphrodite Macbain: half knowing

Daryl Taov: how one reacts to his own emotions

Daryl Taov: i m angry, i know i m angry

Bruce Mowbray: Hmmm. Like proprioception....

Daryl Taov: you're just angry

Daryl Taov: in dreams, you don't know

arabella Ella: not judging also comes into the practice of appreciating being

Aphrodite Macbain: by knowing I'm angry, I diffuse my anger and don't judge my anger

Daryl Taov: yes ara, that's what i was saying about suspending any judgment on someone

Daryl Taov: just acknowledging the fact that he is a being

oO0Oo: no strategy.. just experience

Santoshima: ... into the mystery ~ thank you for this generous conversation

Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Santo. Thanks for being here today!

Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye Santo!

Aphrodite Macbain: thank you Santa for your contributions

oO0Oo: Bye Santo

arabella Ella: bye Santo

Santoshima: The Mystery

 Van Morrison

 Let go into the mystery

 Let yourself go

 You've got to open up your heart

 That's all I know

 Trust what I say and do what you're told

 Baby, and all your dirt will turn

 Into gold

oO0Oo: and your elves

Corvuscorva Nightfire: giggles

Bruce Mowbray: i should probably be going, too. Bear Dog is wondering about our walk.

Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye Bruce!

Daryl Taov: ah, thank you santo, that was the missing word

Daryl Taov: myster

Bruce Mowbray: Thanks to you all. This has been great.

Daryl Taov: y

Daryl Taov: my favorite word :)

Bruce Mowbray: bye for now.

Daryl Taov: bye bruce :) see you soon :)

arabella Ella: I've enjoyed this and would love to stay on but it is nearly midnight here so good night everyone!

Aphrodite Macbain: which word? elves?

arabella Ella: and thanks!

Corvi (corvuscorva.nightfire): bye Ara!

Dari (daryl.taov): Mystery !

Dari (daryl.taov): bye ara :)

Aphrodite Macbain: bye, Arabella. Great to have you with us again

Samúð (oo0oo): Samúð smiles and pretends to not be able to make out which avies are leaving without spectacles on

Samúð (oo0oo): Samúð waves

Second Life: Bruce is Offline

Aphrodite Macbain: Aphrodite Macbain mysteriously tip toes out

Corvi (corvuscorva.nightfire): laughs

Aphrodite Macbain: thru the tupips

Aphrodite Macbain: tulips

Corvi (corvuscorva.nightfire): hehehee

Aphrodite Macbain: !

Samúð (oo0oo): lol

Samúð (oo0oo): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlaoR5m4L80 

Corvi (corvuscorva.nightfire): nice

Dari (daryl.taov): oooh nice

Samúð (oo0oo): Samúð smiles

Second Life: Aphrodite Macbain is Offline

Dari (daryl.taov): i love this girl now

Dari (daryl.taov): lol

Corvi (corvuscorva.nightfire): heehee

 

BELL

 

Dari (daryl.taov): i will take my leave now, time for bed :)

Dari (daryl.taov): thank you all :)

Corvi (corvuscorva.nightfire): g'night Dari

Dari (daryl.taov): be safe

Samúð (oo0oo): Samúð smiles .. Joy with you Dari.. Good to see you again

Samúð (oo0oo): rest well

Dari (daryl.taov): :) thank you for the mysteries :)

Dari (daryl.taov): bye now

Corvi (corvuscorva.nightfire): heehee

Corvi (corvuscorva.nightfire): G'night Sam

Corvi (corvuscorva.nightfire): bye Riddle

Samúð (oo0oo): G'night :))

Samúð (oo0oo): Thinking of what Arch said about trust.. and how in a sense.. we are all orphans in the mystery. This one's for you Arch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7wTLQdT5NU

Aggers (agatha.macbeth): Still here?

Samúð (oo0oo): :)

Aggers (agatha.macbeth): Good, that's sorted that out then

Aggers (agatha.macbeth): Take care

Samúð (oo0oo): :)))

Samúð (oo0oo): Just on my way.. not sure which window to fly through without my spectacles.. nevermind... :))) Cheerio.. and thanks