2012.01.21 19:00 - Slow PaB

The Guardian for this meeting was Pema Pera. The comments are by Pema Pera.

Pema Pera: Hi Sam!
oO0Oo Resident: Hi Pema :)
Pema Pera: and hi Eliza!
oO0Oo Resident waves to Bertrum and Eliza :)
Pema Pera: (slow internet connection, don't see my own lines for quite a while)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Pema, Hi 0
Pema Pera: hi Bert!
Pema Pera: hmm, a few lines of mine were lost, it seems: slow internet connection
Bertrum Resident: Hi Pema, Sam.
Eliza Madrigal: So we may enact the slow pab movement
oO0Oo Resident: Bert :)
Pema Pera: :-)
oO0Oo Resident: me listens slowly
Eliza Madrigal: :)
oO0Oo Resident: :)
Pema Pera: this morning, I reflected on the meaning of practice, of exploration of reality in practice
Pema Pera: a favorite topic of mine :-)
oO0Oo Resident: :)
Pema Pera: and I noticed, almost painfully clearly, how there is still a gap between my approach to exploring reality and just living in reality
Pema Pera: (I now see lines that I spoke a few minutes ago, I hope I'm not too garbled :-)
Eliza Madrigal: you are clear Pema
oO0Oo Resident: :)
Pema Pera: what hit me this morning is that everything I've tried to do in my life, exploration wise has still been indirect
Pema Pera: and I saw at least the possibility of being more direct, more in the moment, more working with what is given
Pema Pera: the problem, hahaha, is that when I try to explain what happened, it will not sound much different than what I've tried to say for the last few years
Pema Pera: it's like listening to music, and falling deeper into it
Pema Pera: it's still the same music, so how to convey to friends what happened????
Pema Pera: any suggestion? (^_^)
oO0Oo Resident: improvise?
Pema Pera: hehehe
Pema Pera: yes
Pema Pera: like, I noticed that even the "technique" of the 9-sec pauses still poses a discrepancy between what is and what we like it to be
Pema Pera: and I wondered whether I could toss that too
Pema Pera: rather than relying on a technique to get "closer" to reality
Pema Pera: just to stubbornly completely throw myself into what is, while dropping any attempts to reach it
Pema Pera: if that makes any sense . . . .
Bertrum Resident: Does it have anything to do what what expectations you have? And then not meeting them?
Pema Pera: hmm, not so much meeting or not meeting, but the very tendency of improvement is also an obstacle, more like that
Pema Pera: does that ring any bells?
Eliza Madrigal: I find myself comparing what you've said to my report today for 99 days...
Pema Pera: yes?
Eliza Madrigal: which felt like I was not so much watching myself do something as doing it... discarding the movie of my exploring for exploring...
oO0Oo Resident peeks
Eliza Madrigal: whether it seemed strange or not
Pema Pera: yes!! that comes close
Eliza Madrigal: hard to describe in a few words, but a joy of seeing that one has jumped in...
Pema Pera: eliminating the middle man :-)
Pema Pera: radical streamlining
Pema Pera: hi Steve!
stevenaia Michinaga: evening
Bertrum Resident: hi Steve
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Stevie
oO0Oo Resident: unhesitating
oO0Oo Resident: hi Stevenaia
stevenaia Michinaga: hello all
Eliza Madrigal: unhesitating, like that
Pema Pera nods to Sam
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Observerm
oO0Oo Resident: does it combine with slowly Eliza?
oO0Oo Resident: or stubbornly?
Eliza Madrigal: :) good question, seems to bypass slowly and fastly
oO0Oo Resident: or anything perhaps
--BELL--
Pema Pera: interesting question, Sam! And yes, bypassing . . . this morning I felt that just dropping any and all techniques and tricks is actually simpler, easier, and YET can be as effective as using those techniques -- like letting go of scaffolding.
Pema Pera: (but only when the building is ready enough to do so :-)
Pema Pera: or letting go of a cast around a broken leg (when ready)
Eliza Madrigal: would be curious to hear your prompt to this, Pema
Pema Pera: well . . . life?
Pema Pera: :-)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pema Pera: you try something for a few decades and sometimes something clicks
Pema Pera: that's the short answer :-)
oO0Oo Resident: . "Really looking at what is going on is in some ways shocking"--Eliza "I noticed, almost painfully clearly" -- Pema :)
Pema Pera: YES!
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pema Pera: whenever you find out that you have been pushing in the wrong direction, there is the bittersweet realization that: 1) you can do MUCH better; and 2) you've wasted a lot of time and energy :-)
Pema Pera: (the clearly and the painful :-)
oO0Oo Resident: back to improve... no mistakes
oO0Oo Resident: atuned listening
Pema Pera: hahaha
Pema Pera: resting in the moment
Pema Pera: means resting in clarity and pain
Pema Pera: and all else
oO0Oo Resident: responding without future or past
Pema Pera nods
oO0Oo Resident: without Marpa, can you know if you are on your last or next to last stone tower?
Pema Pera: good question . . . and there may be more than one answer; both may be true in some way
oO0Oo Resident: now we're swingen'
Pema Pera: to try to answer Eliza's as for what prompted me: indeed, a kind of getting worn out and tired of trying to improve myself . . . . indeed like Milarepa eracting towers
oO0Oo Resident: s
Pema Pera: including the tower of PaB :-)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pema Pera: not that I want to destroy them now
Pema Pera: but I do want to let go of stickiness of improvement orientation
Eliza Madrigal feels inspired by that
oO0Oo Resident: :)
Pema Pera: so this morning I got just fed up with trying, and briefly I dropped it completely, almost accidentally, and then noticed how very much more wonderful that felt
Pema Pera: and stayed with that
Pema Pera: very much like a trapdoor
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Luci (would you like a note of the session so far?)
Pema Pera: fell into "not trying land" and decided to stay there
Pema Pera: hi Luci!
Pema Pera: We'll see how long it lasts . . . too early to say
Eliza Madrigal: I read this quote from Stim today, where he said that awake isn't really concerned with being awake... and I thought but wow one can't see not awake... so one doesn't want to not look for awake... so awake must mean something else... something beyond awake/asleep
Lucinda Lavender: Hi Pema and all:)
Lucinda Lavender: sure eliza
Eliza Madrigal: (k, on way)
Eliza Madrigal apologizes for eliza speak
Eliza Madrigal: lol
Pema Pera: "being concerned with", that movement by itself hinders the possibility of stopping
Lucinda Lavender: no problem:)
oO0Oo Resident: Typing.. not typing
Pema Pera paraphrasing Eliza in Pema speak
Pema Pera: hi Paradise!
oO0Oo Resident: Luci :), Para:)
Pema Pera: real stopping means radical UN : including UNconcerned
Lucinda Lavender: thanks so much Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Paradise, I've just made Luci a note. will pass along....
Pema Pera: is that part of what you alluded too, Eliza?
Paradise Tennant: thanks eliza
Paradise Tennant: smiles and waves all round and listens
Eliza Madrigal: perhaps Pema, am listening closely
Pema Pera: hi Calvino!
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Calvino :)
oO0Oo Resident: Hi Cal :)
Paradise Tennant: hiya cal :)
Lucinda Lavender: HI Cal
Calvino Rabeni: :) Hiyya everyone !
Paradise Tennant: nice to see you observerm .. would you like to sit with us :))
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: yes, I guess stopping is more than slowing down
Pema Pera: yes
Pema Pera: there is something so radical to it . . . .
Calvino Rabeni: Here's a story ... maybe relevant (indirectly?)
Calvino Rabeni: A man in a contemplation group said
Calvino Rabeni: I used to think life was like a pyramid, and I'm always going up the next step
Calvino Rabeni: and eventually will someday get to the top of the pyramid
Calvino Rabeni: but today ... well it just seems like the door is right here already
Calvino Rabeni: all I have to do is open it
Pema Pera: yes, very recognizable
Calvino Rabeni: and wondered ... oohh could it be
Calvino Rabeni: that the door is already open?
Pema Pera: even better!
Calvino Rabeni: A very old man .. had been contemplating carefully a long time :)
Calvino Rabeni: I saw myself in the story, of course :)
Pema Pera: :)
Calvino Rabeni: If I've opened those doors in the past, what is going on that they do not seem open at this time?
Eliza Madrigal: pyramids and towers seem quite complimentary :)
Lucinda Lavender: Luci wonders if it takes energy to open them...
Pema Pera: what keeps surprising me, is that we can have that kind of experience so many times in our lives, and each time on a much deeper level, more radical, more complete . . . .
Bertrum Resident: The notion of standing before the door, brings to mind Kafka...
Lucinda Lavender: this comes from my own experience of course of feeling slower
Lucinda Lavender: this comes from personal experience of feeling slower
Pema Pera: can you say more, Luci?
Lucinda Lavender: just not as inclined to do as much physically challenging things
Lucinda Lavender: perhaps a hormonal change...
Eliza Madrigal: perhaps we miss our part of the energy keeping them together... like the kafka quote (if same one I'm thinking of)
Lucinda Lavender: there have been times when doors seemed to be more open for me as well...
Calvino Rabeni: It brings to mind the "Doors of Perception" metaphor by Aldous Huxley
Calvino Rabeni: ... still seems like a step-at-a-time idea
Lucinda Lavender: hmmmthinking that we try somany things...that seem potentially an opening...and then learn we have to drop them for somereason
Pema Pera: Calvino talked about finding a door; and then finding that the door is open; and yet another step that sometimes happens is that we find ourselves to already be at the inside side of the door . . .
Pema Pera: the ultimate non-step realization
Pema Pera: no crossing needed
Calvino Rabeni: How about the "doors-of-already-always-knowing" ?
Lucinda Lavender: ah
Pema Pera: :-)
Lucinda Lavender: :)
Lucinda Lavender: brb
Pema Pera: and yes, Luci, definitely, any opening can be a trap . . .
Pema Pera: the "ing" in opening is the barb :-)
--BELL--
Pema Pera: Oops, I have to get going, thank you all for another inspiring conversation!
stevenaia Michinaga: hi Tess
Tess Aristocrat: Hello all
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Tess :)
Pema Pera: hi & bye Tess !
stevenaia Michinaga: bye Pema
Tess Aristocrat: Hi and Bye :)
Paradise Tennant: enjoy lunch pema namaste :))
Calvino Rabeni: TC Pema !
oO0Oo Resident: Bye Pema :)
Lucinda Lavender: Good day/night Pema
Bertrum Resident: bye Pema
Pema Pera: bfn
Bertrum Resident: Hi Tess
Eliza Madrigal wonders if the (idea of looking for a) door makes the room
Lucinda Lavender: thanks...
Tess Aristocrat: Bert :)
oO0Oo Resident: what can be given up, without struggle or striving first? What can be seen clearly, without giving up? Maybe children give up all the time.. and see freshly.. they do not realise they are trying anything particularly
Tess Aristocrat: How are you all this eve?
oO0Oo Resident: Hi Tess
Tess Aristocrat: Sam :)
Eliza Madrigal: Doing quite well Tess, ty... you?
Tess Aristocrat: I'm fine, thanks
Tess Aristocrat: a bit late to the conversation though
Eliza Madrigal: I'll be happy to give a note if you like
Tess Aristocrat: no worries, I'll just hop on here :)
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Lucinda Lavender: doors already open...such an interesting way to look at it...
Calvino Rabeni: I believe the idea and experience of "what'd going on in the moment" is already pretty much a retrospective explanation that reduces the dimensions of potential experience vastly
Tess Aristocrat: In the moment is exactly what works for me.
Paradise Tennant: so even in the now we are looking backwards ?
Lucinda Lavender: can see that particularly since how we are seeing comes from the layers we have already learned
Calvino Rabeni: the physical nature of embodied mind has limitations based on its structure in the world
Calvino Rabeni: visual perception (and time perception) for instance is anticipative, seeing what's going to happen a tenth of a second into the future
Tess Aristocrat: We can glance backward for reference without getting stuck there. Is that what you mean, Cal?
Calvino Rabeni: according to some very complex ways of projecting and anticipating
Eliza Madrigal: there's some way in which both are true, though, because reporting on in the moment, though at a distance, is a way of further opening, or can be, which is present anew and not 'other'?
Calvino Rabeni: I think a backward glance can capture the still current traces of the branches of perception that did NOT emerge to dominate awareness
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Tess Aristocrat: nods
Lucinda Lavender: had a dream this week...
Tess Aristocrat: do tell ... :)
Lucinda Lavender: the only part remembered was hearing my son answer the phone..."Culinary Institute...and % Enchilads a Week"...clear and stron it was and then I woke up
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Lucinda Lavender: 5 Enchiladas...
Lucinda Lavender: then yesterday... his girlfriend made a business...Emilous Famous homestyle goods
Lucinda Lavender: saw it on FB
Paradise Tennant: smiles :))
Paradise Tennant: smiles I remember dreaming last night knowing I was dreaming and thinking Luci would like this dream but I forgot what I was dreaming about :)
Lucinda Lavender: thinking that I knew a business might come to be some day....but the dream came and within a day or so...the name was announced
Paradise Tennant: wow
Lucinda Lavender: so...backward and forward looking are perhaps all connected when the door is open in sleep
Lucinda Lavender: back to what you guys were saying tho...
--BELL--
Calvino Rabeni: Do you suppose though, the many dreams are at this moment happening in parallel on the obscured back side of attention?
Lucinda Lavender: yes...
Paradise Tennant: a waking dream ?
Lucinda Lavender: could be if one is awake and tuned in...
Lucinda Lavender: the dream tho does not have to be connected to our daily story tho...
Lucinda Lavender: just that when it wakes me up it seems important
Calvino Rabeni: How long does a dream "take" ? Perhaps it's like a snake that pushes it's head up above water at a certain point.. but it's body has been moving already underneath
Lucinda Lavender: right!
Calvino Rabeni: It's so interesting how elaborate dreams emerge in a seeming flash instant in some meditative states
Eliza Madrigal: prephotography
Lucinda Lavender: travelling into unknown
Lucinda Lavender: and known
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Paradise Tennant: like the idea of travelling into the unknown :)
Calvino Rabeni: So the snake puts up his head and looks around, and says "whoa ... what's THIS? "
Lucinda Lavender: in the meditation you describe Cal...seems exploratory
Lucinda Lavender: right out of a manhole:)
Lucinda Lavender: or out of a stream
Lucinda Lavender: and he asks ...what's up now?
Lucinda Lavender: travelling and scanning
Calvino Rabeni: It's interesting looking again at this classic essay by Huxley - the Doors of Perception -
Calvino Rabeni: http://www.scriptorpress.com/burning...001_huxley.pdf
Calvino Rabeni: and noting the phrase actually is from William Blake
Calvino Rabeni: they both seem to struggle with the "door" idea .. the notion perhaps that a human being is like an island universe, somehow isolated within individual subjectivity
Calvino Rabeni: but at the same time, trying to grasp the ways that that isn't actually so
Paradise Tennant: " .. moment by moment of naked existence " :)
Calvino Rabeni: Other metaphors are fun ... for instance "Bridges"
Calvino Rabeni: or Roots, or Rhizomes
Calvino Rabeni: Ground water
Calvino Rabeni: A multi-headed creature, where one head turns to look at another and says "how do you do?"
Lucinda Lavender: :))
Eliza Madrigal: Huxley describes a fold of clothing the way Blake describes eternity in an hour., but I suppose in all that unfolding doesn't go anywhere/leave (considering still 'flashes')
oO0Oo Resident: :)
--BELL--
Lucinda Lavender: thanks everyone...think I have to go for now...
Paradise Tennant: nite nite luci :)
Lucinda Lavender: :)
Bertrum Resident: bye Luci
Calvino Rabeni: Same .. my mouth is in one place and dinner's in another :)
Calvino Rabeni: thanks everyone
Calvino Rabeni: happy trails :)
Paradise Tennant: nite nite cal :) namaste
oO0Oo Resident: Luci :)
oO0Oo Resident: Cal :)
Bertrum Resident: bye Cal
Calvino Rabeni: bfn
Paradise Tennant: smiles think I will say good nite too :) namaste my friends thanks :)))
Eliza Madrigal: Ah bye Luci, Cal, Paradise :)
Tess Aristocrat: Night :)
oO0Oo Resident: Namaste Para
Eliza Madrigal: [19:38] Bertrum: The notion of standing before the door, brings to mind Kafka...
Eliza Madrigal: (wondered if you might pick this up a little Bertrum? say more?)
Tess Aristocrat: Well, goodnight dear people and thanks for the good insight :)
Eliza Madrigal: Night Tess :)
stevenaia Michinaga: night indeed
oO0Oo Resident: Night Tess :) Sleep well
stevenaia Michinaga: see you again
Eliza Madrigal: Night Stevenaia
oO0Oo Resident: You too Stevenaia
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: well, an interesting conversation tonight on many levels...
oO0Oo Resident smiles.. follows wave of shark jumpers.. :).. take care Bert, Eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: tribe has spoken, hah
oO0Oo Resident: 〜waves〜
oO0Oo Resident: ☻/
oO0Oo Resident: /▌
oO0Oo Resident: / \
Bertrum Resident: bye
Eliza Madrigal: Bye for now Bertrum
Bertrum Resident: Bye, Eliza.
Eliza Madrigal: Namaste'