2012.01.27 06:00 - Regarding Reality: Pet Pruning and Plasma

:) The Guardian for this meeting was Maxine Walden.

Pema Pera: ah, Bleu, for you it is now 7 am?
Pema Pera: in the winter?

--BELL--

Pema Pera: Arizona is one of the few sensible states
Eliza Madrigal: (brb)
Bleu Oleander: yes!
Pema Pera: no caving in to daylight savings time
Bleu Oleander: 75 and sunny here today
Pema Pera: hi Maxine!
Pema Pera: :)
Maxine Walden: HI, Pema, Eliza, Bleu....lag!
Bleu Oleander: hi Maxine :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Maxine :)
Pema Pera: hi Maxine and Wester!
Bleu Oleander: hi Wester
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Wester :)
Wester Kiranov: hi all
Maxine Walden: hi, Wester

Maxine Walden: so light in the Pavilion here, so dark just outside my RL window!
Bleu Oleander: here too Maxine :)
Pema Pera: so cozy here in the rain upon the panes :-)
Wester Kiranov: finally a sunny day here in RL :)
Maxine Walden: :), Bleu
Maxine Walden: so many 'weathers'
Eliza Madrigal: softer blue here, almost white, blending with cottony cloud cover
Maxine Walden: lovely, eliza
Wester Kiranov: the world has diufferent moods too, it seems
Bleu Oleander: nice Eliza
Maxine Walden: :)
Bleu Oleander: different realities?
Maxine Walden: hmm, yes

Maxine Walden: and just thinking that less than an hour ago, here, anyway, my 'window' looked out upon the mysteries of sleep
Eliza Madrigal: different clothing on same reality?
Maxine Walden: hmm

Maxine Walden: shall I share this thought of 'plasma'?
Bleu Oleander: please do
Eliza Madrigal: yes please :)
Pema Pera is all ears
Wester Kiranov: different ftell us, maxine
Maxine Walden: Over the past couple of weeks, due to our conversations, especially around the phrase "the more I read the less I know"
Maxine Walden: I have had the distinct image of new seedling thoughts, images, experiences dispelling the familiar assumptions in some cases
Maxine Walden: and so it felt like this dispersion of the familiar, sort of atomizing (when things go into tiny spray bits)
Maxine Walden: a dispersion into smaller and smaller bits, with the result of being amidst bits, a bit lost but with hope/faith that new seeds (protoplam) would develop from these tiny droplets
Maxine Walden: The sense of plasma comes from what I understand this kind of 'atmosphere' to be, dispersed ions or droplets....the notion of the life-bringing plasma of blood actually came to mind initially, and then some
Bleu Oleander: hiya Zen
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zen :)
Wester Kiranov: hi zen
Pema Pera: hi Zen
Maxine Walden: some notion of 'emply' space, which I understand is also a plasma of sorts, having potentially charged particles throughout.
Maxine Walden: And finally somewhere read that plasma is actually the most common form of matter we know of...(pause)
Zen Arado: Hi everyone
Maxine Walden: hi, Zen.

Maxine Walden: So, guess just wanted to put this thought out there to see if it is of interest or attracts any thoughts or attention
Maxine Walden: (real pause :) )
Eliza Madrigal: really interesting analogy... taking a moment with it
Maxine Walden: hi, zen
Pema Pera: one thing that comes to mind is that a plasma is almost impossible to confine . . . .
Maxine Walden: hmm
Bleu Oleander: did some googling of "plasma" and realized the more I read the less I knew :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Maxine Walden: :))
Pema Pera: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magneti...inement_fusion
Bleu Oleander: I thought of the metaphor of a rainbow when you mentioned dispersion Maxine

--BELL--

Bleu Oleander: holding a prism up to white light reveals a different layer of reality
Maxine Walden: yes, wonderful association, bleu
Maxine Walden: might need a bit of help with that description, Piet.

Maxine Walden: re the confinement...could you say a bit more Piet?
Pema Pera: charged particles generate magnetic and electric fields, which in turn change the movements of the particles, which then changes the fields, and the feedback it generally highly unstable; not unlike human beings trying to influence each other :-)
Bleu Oleander: somewhat better metaphor for me, the me not knowing much about plasmas :)
Bleu Oleander: :)
Maxine Walden: ah:), I think I get it, Pema!
Bleu Oleander: so is empty space a plasma?
Pema Pera: people making rules for people whose behavior is then changed leading to the perceived need for new rules
Pema Pera: :)
Maxine Walden: yes,...:)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Maxine Walden: maybe, bleu the notion of space being empty is the issue here...that there may be no such thiing as empty in this sense
Maxine Walden: but we should see what Pema has to think here...
Bleu Oleander: quantum stuff?
Maxine Walden: hmm
Pema Pera: not directly, no, plasmas can be described classically

Pema Pera: may I ask, Maxine, what the mean intention is of your metaphor?
Pema Pera: to expand on "the more I read the less I know"?
Pema Pera: or are there other directions, motives, intentions?
Pema Pera: or just openminded brainstorming?
Maxine Walden: yes, exactly, to expand on that metaphor
Pema Pera: in any direction?
Pema Pera: for the sake of the metaphor?
Pema Pera: just curious :-)
Maxine Walden: brainstorming, not really wishing to sort out plamsa, but to frame the metaphor
Eliza Madrigal: the attempt to[ward] confining by obtaining "more" actually creating dispersement?
Maxine Walden: and to try to explore the creativity, maybe in terms of natural phenomena, of this notion of dispersion. Becuase in some ways such disperson feels depleting to the average everyday mind

Bleu Oleander: I think I said that phrase last week and I meant that the more I investigate ideas the more ideas I find to investigate :)
Pema Pera: :)
Maxine Walden: and yet being open to each other, allowing our minds to be 'blown' does seem very important...
Pema Pera: so perhaps what we need is a bit more "confinement" in the possitive sense
Eliza Madrigal: the picture in mind is of reaching out to touch a dream, which like water, disperses... yet seems natural
Pema Pera: as in a container
Pema Pera: allowing free flow inside and protection towards the outside?

Pema Pera: "depleting" is a powerful notion . . . . if dispersion leads to depletion, it's a distraction; if it leads to spreading seeds it can be very creative
Maxine Walden: maybe our thinking together is a container of sorts, a wider container than any of our single minds

Maxine Walden: I think depleting refers to the self that feels possessive or defined by certain 'pet' or 'pat' ideas
Maxine Walden: and so deflated with those 'pets' or 'pats' are dispersed...

Wester Kiranov: maybe we need some balance between dispersion and concentration
Eliza Madrigal: letting go of getting letting go
Pema Pera: pitter patter of random information can be even more deflating than exposure to pet ideas . . . the pitter patter cannot even be corrected!
Zen Arado: Isn't it funny how our minds seem to work in dualistic notions
Maxine Walden: (said by Pema as he listens to the rain outside his window) :)
Pema Pera: :-)
Maxine Walden: :)
Zen Arado: maybe that is why the Buddha taught a middle way so much

--BELL--

Bleu Oleander: hi steve :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Stevenaia :)
Pema Pera: hi there, Steve!
Wester Kiranov: hi steve
Maxine Walden: hi, Steve
stevenaia Michinaga: morning all
Zen Arado: hi Steve
Maxine Walden: steve we are considering the creativity of 'the more I read the less I know'...the creative dispersion vs the feeling of loss of the known or familiar ideas...
stevenaia Michinaga: thx
Eliza Madrigal: it is interesting in that there is a sense of allowing a larger flow and less control
Eliza Madrigal: which circulates everything in a larger way and also more detailed way than one could get ahold of
Eliza Madrigal: the analogy I mean
Maxine Walden: yes, Eliza, listening...
Maxine Walden: billowing beyond one's edges
Maxine Walden: or capacities perhaps?
Zen Arado: a bigger space


Wester Kiranov: Could there be a noncontrolling confinement?
Eliza Madrigal: but one is part of vice versa
Eliza Madrigal: (end thought, not formed, hah)
Wester Kiranov: Not to control but to allow a certain part of reality not to be obscured by other parts?
Pema Pera: organic control rather than mechanic control, perhaps?
Eliza Madrigal: nods
Zen Arado: control what?
Bleu Oleander: reality is a big place with lots of room to expand into
Wester Kiranov: nice thouht pema, but I think that's not the essential difference

Maxine Walden: what's coming to mind is the natural (I think) terror of being dispersed, lost in space (maybe when one holds on to a dispersed idea, vs being open to the spacetrip without knowing the outcome
Bleu Oleander: enjoy the ride :)
Maxine Walden: ah, just reading Wester's posting 'certain part of reality not to be obscured by other parts'. more on that Wester?
Wester Kiranov: I was thinking of things like ikebana, where there are a lot of rules, and because of those rules free expression can make something exquisite
Wester Kiranov: and you don't know in advance how it's going to work out either
Wester Kiranov: when there are too many ideas, it is hard to really let any of them flower
Wester Kiranov: so you need to prune your thoughts
Maxine Walden: :) lovely Ikabana images come to mind as you speak.
Pema Pera: yes
Bleu Oleander needs her thoughts pruned :)
Maxine Walden: :)), me too, bleu
Wester Kiranov: :-)
Pema Pera: calligraphy too: you don't design new letters, you work with the existing ones in new ways
Maxine Walden: the rules or forms in each case providing a protective container which allows focus and trust in the new?
Wester Kiranov: well said maxine
Bleu Oleander: my rationale for Art of Being rules :)
Pema Pera: yes
Wester Kiranov: without any rules you don't have freedom, you have chaos. The problem comes when you start to believe in those rules

--BELL--

Maxine Walden: Impressive shaping or rather focussing of my perhaps unruly dispersion image into these more disciplined forms which then bring vivid imagery for us to consider
Maxine Walden: (perhaps a personal meditation, my last comment; don't want to impose it on the group)
Eliza Madrigal: Apologize to sneak out a little early...
Maxine Walden: thanks, eliza
Pema Pera: bye Eliza!
Bleu Oleander: bye Eliza :)
Pema Pera: I'll send you the log URL
Wester Kiranov: bye eliza
Zen Arado: Bye Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: thanks so much Maxine, everyone.... interesting conversation, and thanks Pema
Eliza Madrigal waves
Maxine Walden: just musing on the clarity when focussing on calligraphy and Ikebana. As if the discipline of the form offers protected space for creative elaboration

Zen Arado: but it's only a kind of foundation isn't it?
Zen Arado: Performers eventually outgrow the discipline
Zen Arado: they transcend it

Wester Kiranov: Just a thought: in ikebana there are so many rules you cannot really DO anything anymore. Instead you can allow some natual expresssion to come out
Zen Arado: then someone comes along and makes new rules for the new form
Maxine Walden: yes, and then what, new art forms?
stevenaia Michinaga: jazz musicians as a way of life do that
Pema Pera: and tai chi masters :-)
Wester Kiranov: yes, tai chi
Bleu Oleander: and artists
stevenaia Michinaga: nods, in both, new forms develop
Wester Kiranov: tai chi masters try not to do anything as well
Wester Kiranov: or rather, they don't try they just are
Maxine Walden: not striving, just being?

Zen Arado: truly radical people turn up every now and then and overthrow all the previous rules. They and ther followers formalise it into a tradition and declare must be done this way
Zen Arado: until the next radical overturns it all again

stevenaia Michinaga: once you know all the part, or rules, you are free to recombine them in new and previous impossible ways
Wester Kiranov: just being, within a particular situation
Zen Arado: maybe most people like a set of rules to follow
Zen Arado: they don't like too much uncertainty
stevenaia Michinaga: acceptance

Wester Kiranov: i suppose so Zen, but that is not the only way to use rules
Bleu Oleander: one can have uncertainty within a set of rules
Pema Pera: it would be hard to make music without a system of notes, whether or not formalized
Pema Pera: or to speak without grammar
Pema Pera: or to breath without the rule of going in and out :-)

Wester Kiranov: one can use rules to get your uncertainty in the right dose
Wester Kiranov: not too much, not too little
Zen Arado: maybe there are rules that constrain and others that enable
Zen Arado: how do we know the difference?
Pema Pera: practice, man, practice :-)
Wester Kiranov: :D
Bleu Oleander: :)

Maxine Walden: :) the fluctuations from breaking out of old 'confining' forms until new ones are developed which last for awhile and then the creative impulse breaks out of that form, and on and on
stevenaia Michinaga: hi Luci
Maxine Walden: hi, luci!
Pema Pera: hi Luci!
Lucinda Lavender: HI all:)
Bleu Oleander: hi Luci
Zen Arado: Hi Luci :)
Lucinda Lavender: got here earlier than I thought:)
Pema Pera: :-)
Maxine Walden: :)
Wester Kiranov: hi lucinda
stevenaia Michinaga: improvisation, Maxine
Bleu Oleander: thank you Maxine
Bleu Oleander: take care all :)
Maxine Walden: exactly, steve. Thanks all
Bleu Oleander: nice to see everyone
Pema Pera: bye everybody who is leaving!
Pema Pera: and thank you, Maxine
Zen Arado: thanks all, have to go, byee
stevenaia Michinaga: nice being on SLT in RL, if only for a week :)
Maxine Walden: glad to have you here as we wrap up our conversation.
Bleu Oleander: bye bye
Wester Kiranov: thank you for a lovely conversation. now off to prune my own thoughts :-)
Pema Pera: :-)
Lucinda Lavender: wonderful term "prune"
Wester Kiranov: namaste
Maxine Walden: I had better go. Yes, to prune our thoughts, Wester. A lovely discussion, allowing me to do just that, prune hopefully creatively
Maxine Walden: bye for now.

Added: Eliza's contribution to the limits faciliating creativity angle: