2012.04.22 13:00 -Equanimity - what does it mean to us?

The Guardian for this meeting was Aphrodite Macbain. The comments are by Aphrodite Macbain.

Aphrodite Macbain: waves at Korel
Korel Laloix: Heya
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi
Aphrodite Macbain: How are you?
Korel Laloix: What you up to today?

Toothpaste

Aphrodite Macbain: Just running this discussion and doing chores and going for a walk
Korel Laloix: Reading about Dental epidemiology in India/Pakistan/Bangladesh.
Aphrodite Macbain: and making a spaghetti sauce...
Korel Laloix: What topic?
Aphrodite Macbain: and what have you learned Korey?
Aphrodite Macbain: Equanimity
Aphrodite Macbain: I sent out an email yesterday
Korel Laloix: Have not been in that account today.
Aphrodite Macbain: nods.
Aphrodite Macbain: I sent it out yesterday; I hope everyone has read it.
Aphrodite Macbain: If not, that's OK too
Korel Laloix: interestesting how different cultures do dental work.. or not.
Aphrodite Macbain: yes?
Aphrodite Macbain: They chew betel nut in India. Is that good for their teeth?
Korel Laloix: Reading about that right now.
Korel Laloix: There are evidently several natural dentifrices across the world.
Aphrodite Macbain: yes?
Aphrodite Macbain: like what?
Korel Laloix: Chewing twigs of certain plants for instance.
Aphrodite Macbain: nods- probably acts like dental floss
--BELL--
Korel Laloix: Just getting into it...
Korel Laloix: More to this than I was expecting.
Aphrodite Macbain: how are your teeth?
Korel Laloix: My teeth are actually in great shape.
Aphrodite Macbain: good. Grandmother's cooking!
Korel Laloix: About the only healthcare I got growing up past the emergency room visits was the IHS dental care.
Aphrodite Macbain: Not too much sugar

Grandparents

Korel Laloix: Never met my grandparents.
Aphrodite Macbain: I thought you mentioned living with your grandmother
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Bruce. Welcome. Been at a busy session?
Korel Laloix: She is my step grandmother.
Aphrodite Macbain: ah kk
Korel Laloix: My latest stepdad's mother.
Korel Laloix: But I have lived with her for a while now.
Aphrodite Macbain: Do you get along well?
Korel Laloix: Perfectly.
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Bruce Mowbray: Not at a busy session -- just sitting at KarunaMetta meditation.
Aphrodite Macbain: Did you get along with your grandparents Bruce?
Aphrodite Macbain: Nice

Earth day

oO0Oo Resident: Hi Korel, Bruce, Aphrodite
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Sam. GTSY
Korel Laloix: Heya.
Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Samuo, Aph, Kori!
oO0Oo Resident: Happy Earth Day, to those that celebrate that.
Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks! I think I celebrate it every day!
Aphrodite Macbain: and wish I had more earth to plant things in...
Korel Laloix: It is sort of an odd concept, I agree, should be an everyday thing.
Aphrodite Macbain: Nods- someone in my yoga class celebrated it by dying his hair green.
Weird. Sort of misses the point
Korel Laloix: An interesting fashion statement.
Aphrodite Macbain: Bruce- how are you celebrating earth day?
Aphrodite Macbain: LOL (note: Bruce turns into a tree)

Bruce Mowbray: Hmmm.. Well, I'm not planning to leave earth today.
Aphrodite Macbain: Good
Aphrodite Macbain: Poor Blub is a little confused
Bruce Mowbray: (even though I'm wearing my jet-pack -- which uses bio-fuels, of course)
oO0Oo Resident: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: !!??
Bruce Mowbray: chickadee feels right at home.
Aphrodite Macbain: Would people like to discuss the subject of equanimity?
oO0Oo Resident waves to Blub.. long time no (sea) ;)
Aphrodite Macbain: groan!

Equanimity: some definitions

Korel Laloix: Definition please.
Bruce Mowbray: Definition of Equanimity?

Korel Laloix: I just think if we are going to discuss a word, we need to decide on the meaning first
Aphrodite Macbain: well there are many definitions for equanimity but basically, I guess, it means a state of being balanced
Aphrodite Macbain: whatever you need to balance is..
Korel Laloix: Great.
Aphrodite Macbain: It is a core principle of many world religions

Balance, comfort

Korel Laloix: I try to balance a lot of things in my life... and usually fail.
Aphrodite Macbain: For example Korel?
Korel Laloix: I run too much.
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Bruce Mowbray: Or... we could discuss the possible meanings for the word for a week . . . before defining it.
Korel Laloix smiles
Aphrodite Macbain: (And I don’t run enough- if at all)
Aphrodite Macbain: um we could...
oO0Oo Resident: maybe an open exploration of what it can mean to different people in different contexts?
Korel Laloix: I have been accused of being overly serious, not enjoying life enough.
Bruce Mowbray: sounds good to moi, Samuo
Korel Laloix: I think so…but makes me look at the balance.
Aphrodite Macbain: It is a state to be desired since, by being equanamous, one can face life more easily, make decisions more effectively and be compassionate to others more readily
Aphrodite Macbain: listens
Korel Laloix: But is it desirable...?
Korel Laloix: Sounds like a comfortable state... one that won't motivate you.
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
oO0Oo Resident: it works with desire.. in some cases
Bruce Mowbray: Before I'd ever learned of 'equanimity' in the Buddhist context, I learned it from a 90-year-old gentleman pen-pal of mine.
Korel Laloix: What was his idea?

--BELL--

Aphrodite Macbain: Thank you
Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Zen.
Aphrodite Macbain: What did your pen-pal say Bruce?

Zen Arado: Hi all
Aphrodite Macbain: waves at Zen
Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Wol!
Wol Euler: evening all
Zen Arado: Hi Wol
Aphrodite Macbain: waves at Wol
oO0Oo Resident: Hi Wol, Zen
Bruce Mowbray: He wrote that his life-long quest was to find and settle into Equanimity...
Bruce Mowbray: and at the very end, he did.
Aphrodite Macbain: we are just beginning to discuss and define equanimity.
Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Zon!

Aphrodite Macbain: (Bruce is referrig to his 90-yr old pen-pal

oO0Oo Resident: Hi Zon
Wol Euler: ty
Aphrodite Macbain: waves at Zon
Korel Laloix: Balance in all things... including seeking balance maybe.
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Zon Kwan: heya
Korel Laloix: Bozho
Bruce Mowbray: Ahhh There it is, Kori!
Wol Euler: hello san

Aphrodite Macbain: My two main areas I look for balance are between reason and passion and abundance and simplicity
Bruce Mowbray: Hello, San!
oO0Oo Resident: Nice Earth Day outfit Wol
Aphrodite Macbain: waves at San
Wol Euler grins.
Santoshima Resident: greetings
Zen Arado: Hi Zon, San
Bruce Mowbray: Tree loves Wol's flowers.
Aphrodite Macbain: Equanimity.
Aphrodite Macbain: loves Earth day
Wol Euler: hello zon
Primmy Resident: hi everyone
Wol Euler: hello Primmy
Aphrodite Macbain: Korel asked whether equanimity can lead to passivity.
Aphrodite Macbain: What do people think?
O0Oo Resident: while balance may be related to equanimity.. not sure they equate exchangeably

Bouce Mowbray: Passivity -- as in indifference? not caring?

Aphrodite Macbain: you feel that equanimity doesn't mean a balanced state Sam?

Wol Euler: have you been here before, Primmy?
Primmy Resident: yes a few days ago still just listening

Wol Euler: okay, so you know about the recorder and publishing the sessions?
Primmy Resident: yes
Wol Euler: good :) we have to check, it's in the Terms of Service
Primmy Resident: ty
Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks Wol
Wol Euler: if you click on that pile of pillows beside the column, you 'll get a big cushion suitable for animal avatars
Primmy Resident: ty again
Wol Euler smiles.

Korel Laloix: I was just suggesting that balance might be a good goal.. but I think it might be better to aim for something near there so you can have something to be passionate about... something that needs action.
Aphrodite Macbain: What is the value of Equanimity?
Korel Laloix: I think if you are balanced.. you do everything you do sort of better. Wow.. strange grammar.. sorry

Aphrodite Macbain: smiles
Aphrodite Macbain: Does being equanamous mean not ever being passionate?

Zen Arado: perhaps we should explain what we think equanimity is first?
Santoshima Resident: yeeessssss
Aphrodite Macbain: I think one can be passionate AND equanamous. One just needs time to also be thoughtful and rational as well
Santoshima Resident: please
Aphrodite Macbain: We were doing that (defining equanimity) earlier on. Maybe we can begin again
Zen Arado: ok sorry
Santoshima Resident: ok

What does equanimity mean to you?

Aphrodite Macbain: What does equanimity mean to you?
oO0Oo Resident: Maybe go in a circle?
Aphrodite Macbain: Let's go round the circle?
Aphrodite Macbain: snap
Aphrodite Macbain: Zen?
Aphrodite Macbain: would you like to start?
Zen Arado: not reacting overly
Aphrodite Macbain: nods.
Zen Arado: or a practice to achieve contentment
Zen Arado: done
Aphrodite Macbain: Is contentment the result of equanimity?
Aphrodite Macbain: or the same as?
Zen Arado: in Buddhism one of the divine abiding I think
Aphrodite Macbain: Bruce- you with your head in the trees- what does equanimity mean to you?
Bruce Mowbray: an aspiration to engage all experience without dependence upon prior agendas, preferences, or biased viewpoint
Bruce Mowbray: My lofty view, hmmmmm???
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Aphrodite Macbain: so equanimity means unbiased?

Zen Arado: 'Equanimity (Pāli: upekkhā, Sanskrit: upekṣā): learning to accept loss and gain, praise and blame, and success and failure, all with detachment, equally, for oneself and for others. Equanimity is "not to distinguish between friend, enemy or stranger, but regard every sentient being as equal. It is a clear-minded tranquil state of mind—not being overpowered by delusions, mental dullness or agitation."[12]'
Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks Zen

Zen Arado: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmavihara

Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Boxy

Aphrodite Macbain: waves at Boxy- hi Boxy we're talking about the meaning of equaminity
Alfred Kelberry: hi :)
Zen Arado: Hi Boxy

--BELL--

Aphrodite Macbain: So Bruce- you were saying that for you equanimity means unbiased?
Bruce Mowbray: Well, I spoke of an aspiration...
Bruce Mowbray: for an unbiased viewpoint...
Bruce Mowbray: but that's just one aspect.
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Bruce Mowbray: I'd prefer to state it in more positive terms, though.
Bruce Mowbray: Instead of saying "no preference" and "no prejudice,"
Bruce Mowbray: I'd prefer to say, stable, clear, and fresh in each experience.
Wol Euler nods.
Aphrodite Macbain: smiles
Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: yw.
Alfred Kelberry: do not like the wiki's definition at all
Wol Euler: tell us a better one

Aphrodite Macbain: Boxy- what does equanimity mean to you?
Alfred Kelberry: unbiased is a good one
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Zen Arado: it's only a matter of opinion what it means like... all these words

Aphrodite Macbain: anything else Boxy?

Aphrodite Macbain: We are asking what equanimity means to each of us- we all have different ideas about it Zen
Zen Arado: exactly
Aphrodite Macbain: of course it is a matter of opinion.
Aphrodite Macbain: We are not trying to get to an absolute truth
Zen Arado: not so obvious as you think Aph
Zen Arado: lots think there is a precise meaning
Wol Euler listens curiously

Alfred Kelberry: it's keeping a balance of self with the others, i think
Aphrodite Macbain: nods

Primmy Resident waves
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Zen Arado: boxy strokes Primmy :)
Aphrodite Macbain: I don’t think we here are looking for a precise meaning. What is interesting is how we each interpret it differently
Aphrodite Macbain strokes Zen

Zen Arado: :)
Primmy Resident: i think it's common ground
Aphrodite Macbain: listens
Primmy Resident: that's all really just common ground
Aphrodite Macbain: finding common ground with others Primmy?
Primmy Resident: yes
Aphrodite Macbain: what about within oneself?
Zen Arado: well if it has a different meaning to each ...
Primmy Resident: balance
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Bruce Mowbray: Perhaps equanimity is one of those things like balance -- we feel it more when it is disrupted.
Aphrodite Macbain: Is that (equanimity) what you are searching for or is it not important?
Zen Arado: it's a pointer to some vague state
Primmy Resident: it kinda just happens
Zen Arado: an apparent state

Alfred Kelberry: Zen, as is all Buddhism :)
Aphrodite Macbain: It is also a pointer towards a direction that can influence our actions and ways of being
Bruce Mowbray: would "homeostasis" come anywhere near being a synonym?

Aphrodite Macbain: Wol? We haven't heard from you yet. :-)
Zen Arado: and all words and definitions ;)
Bruce Mowbray listens for Woly.
Wol Euler: I'm trying to figure out what it does mean :)
Aphrodite Macbain: It might be easier to define what it means to you.

Imperturbability

Wol Euler: it has to do with composure, with balance and imperturbability
Wol Euler: that is what I am trying to do
Zen Arado: likes imperturbability
Alfred Kelberry: imperturbability, hmm
Zen Arado: unflabbability
Aphrodite Macbain: calm
Wol Euler: the feeling of being grounded that one gets when the settling-in to a long meditation "works", is close to equanimity
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Wol Euler: it's a place of comfort and peace
Wol Euler: stability

Wol Euler: done

Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Eliza

Zen Arado: Hi Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Hi, sorry to be late and laggy :) (/me listens)
Wol Euler: hello eliza

Alfred Kelberry: eliza :)

Aphrodite Macbain: For me, it is trying to balance emotions with rationalism
Zen Arado: not easily upset
Aphrodite Macbain: Eliza, what does equanimity mean to you?
Eliza Madrigal: Aph... must ask for a few minutes to settle in... :)
Aphrodite Macbain: of course!
Zen Arado: and reach equanimity Eliza :)

Alfred Kelberry: i like it, Woly :)
Wol Euler: ty
Zen Arado: oh sorry for interrupting Wol
Bruce Mowbray: For me, it's like letting the choppy seas find their own calm.
Wol Euler: no worries, I am done
Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks Wol

Wol Euler: oh, when did Sam leave?
Aphrodite Macbain: Both Sam and San disappeared at the last 90 second break I think
Aphrodite Macbain: too bad; I would have been interested to hear what they would have to say.
Bruce Mowbray sees Eliza for the first time. Hey, Eliza!
Eliza Madrigal: ty :) hah
Zen Arado: imity

Aphrodite Macbain: We have gone round the circle asking what equanimity mans to each of us- replies have been quite varied
Eliza Madrigal: so nice :) love this topic
Wol Euler: equanimity is the Buddha's state, he sees the world and its suffering, but feels no attachment to it
Zen Arado: don't panic !!! opposite of equanimity
Alfred Kelberry: i think all the shared definitions have a common point. a pab's equanimity.
Eliza Madrigal: yes Boxy?

--BELL--

Zen Arado: doesn't mean we lose compassion though?
Aphrodite Macbain: I think it might mean that being in that state we would be able to become MORE compassionate, Zen.
Wol Euler: IMHO no, zen
Wol Euler: there's a huge difference between indifference and equanimity. Indifference is the refusal of compassion
Alfred Kelberry: eliza, in contrast to "canonical" definition: "learning to accept loss and gain, praise and blame, and success and failure, all with detachment, equally, for oneself and for others."
Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks Boxy

Eliza Madrigal notices earth goddess Wol :)
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: spring!
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Eliza Madrigal: Re equanimity and Spring... I think of the line 'the sun shines on the just and unjust"
Alfred Kelberry: *smells flowers on woly* :)
Wol Euler: :)
Eliza Madrigal: and in Storm's meditation he says, during the difficult person part, 'you don't have to think they are a good person, to extend compassion
Bruce Mowbray: right, Eliza...

Bruce Mowbray: Perhaps equanimity is the result of behaving in a balanced way. . . like happiness the result of behaving in some way.
Zen Arado: the result of meditation too I think
Zen Arado: allows mind to settle
Aphrodite Macbain: I think of being equanamous as having stability, not being easily tipped over but flexible, like grass in the wind
Bruce Mowbray: by extending compassion, we're not giving prizes.
Eliza Madrigal: so I think one aspect is not being a 'respecter of persons' re class and external 'psychic abrasiveness' (leonard cohen phrase)
Aphrodite Macbain: like flowers moving on their stalks
Korel Laloix: Yes, but grass is rooted.
Aphrodite Macbain: exactly Korel
Wol Euler: equanimity is being rooted, grounded
Wol Euler: secure
Aphrodite Macbain: "having stability"but flexible
Zen Arado: not neurotic or easily angered
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Aphrodite Macbain: having no buttons
Eliza Madrigal: Pema sometimes talks about 'no beings' ... surely it doesn't mean ignoring 'beings' but holding 'small “b” beings' in a wider context of Being
Aphrodite Macbain: can you say more Eliza?
Zen Arado: yes
Aphrodite Macbain: maybe "being in this case =ego?
Zen Arado: absorbing hurt rather than reacting

Wol Euler: ((Bertram’s meditation in 9 minutes -- I assume))
Aphrodite Macbain: yes Wol - thanks for the reminder
Eliza Madrigal: yes

Alfred Kelberry: i think equanimity may also correlate to social equality as well. Treat people in the same manner despite their status or title.
Zen Arado: seems to correlate with contentment to me
Bruce Mowbray: excellent point, boxy.
Eliza Madrigal: Namaste' is a kind of gesture in this regard
Aphrodite Macbain: yes I agree, but to be able to do that, we need a non judgmental mind
Wol Euler: likely to result in contentment, definitely :)
Eliza Madrigal: you are honoring the divine in each person... speaking to that
Zen Arado: or a precursor as well?
Eliza Madrigal: not to roles
Aphrodite Macbain: contentment=the ultimate state to be in?
Wol Euler: the image of contentment is the Buddha's quiet half-smile
Eliza Madrigal: original face v external : ) @ Wol
Aphrodite Macbain: I get nervous about that word - since it feels like self satisfaction...
Eliza Madrigal: contentment?
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Eliza Madrigal: what about equipoise?
Aphrodite Macbain: I prefer equanimity
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Zen Arado: no...'it shouldn't be this way' attitude
Aphrodite Macbain: right
Aphrodite Macbain: and I expect you to agree with me! :D
Eliza Madrigal laughs
Zen Arado: but can seem passive
Zen Arado: to our 'doing' minds
Alfred Kelberry: or respective
Aphrodite Macbain: Maybe not passive but flexible
Aphrodite Macbain: always in motion, moving, shifting but coming back to centre
Zen Arado: is everything doing what it does perfectly ?
Eliza Madrigal: :) accommodating, inclusive, generous
Aphrodite Macbain: like a yoga pose
Aphrodite Macbain: a tree pose :-)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Alfred Kelberry: zen?
Aphrodite Macbain: doing rather than being Zen?

Perfection

Zen Arado: well that's the attitude...everything is perfect as it is
Aphrodite Macbain: yes- and recognizing it as such
Alfred Kelberry: oh
Aphrodite Macbain: oh Boxy?

Wol Euler: I'm not sure "perfect" is part of that actually
Zen Arado: it is all working itself out perfectly
Wol Euler: I think it’s rather "everything that is, is what it is"
Wol Euler: no evaluation
Bruce Mowbray: I disagree . . . but to be discussed at later sessions this week.//////
Zen Arado: not to us humans
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Alfred Kelberry: i see it as being respectful to diversity. May not be perfect at all, but who to decide.
Bruce Mowbray: (I disagree with the notion that everything is perfect as is...)
Zen Arado: perfect a bad word

Aphrodite Macbain: Well in 3 minutes Bertram’s meditation will begin and give you a chance for finding balance

Is-ness

Eliza Madrigal: :) Boxy
Wol Euler: equanimity is perhaps accepting the is-ness of things
Bruce Mowbray: ahhhh!
Aphrodite Macbain: ohhhhh
Bruce Mowbray: Opportunity for balance!
Aphrodite Macbain: hmmhmmmmm
Eliza Madrigal: all words will fall short, but I like ending on that note the isness of things :)
Alfred Kelberry: is-ness? i forgot what it means :)
Wol Euler smiles.
Bruce Mowbray ponders the is-ness of is.
Aphrodite Macbain: hehe
Wol Euler: the fact of being that which they are being
Wol Euler: neither doing it well, nor doing something they should not do
Wol Euler: just IS
Wol Euler: and yes
Alfred Kelberry: ah, ok
Zen Arado: yeh

Aphrodite Macbain: smiles

Aphrodite Macbain: Time for Bertram

Wol Euler: goodnight all who aren't coming, thanks for the discussion
Eliza Madrigal: thank you everyone
Zen Arado: nite all and thanks
Wol Euler: _/!\_
Alfred Kelberry: aww
Alfred Kelberry: spring is leaving
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye everyone and thank you for kicking off this discussion on Equanimity
Eliza Madrigal: Thank you Aphrodite
Aphrodite Macbain: Thank YOU Eliza
Aphrodite Macbain: Tries to feel calm and rooted

Alfred Kelberry: that was fast :)
Aphrodite Macbain: poof
Alfred Kelberry: *pokes kori*
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye Alfred, bye Korel
--BELL--
Korel Laloix: IN and out.
Alfred Kelberry: cute :)
Alfred Kelberry: come to berty's session if you like
Alfred Kelberry: be good
Korel Laloix: In a couple of other chats... but might stop by. where at?
Alfred Kelberry: no idea
Alfred Kelberry: asked in the group chat :)
Korel Laloix: Thanks.