The Guardian for this meeting was Zen Arado. The comments are by Zen Arado.

Energy and disability:

Zen Arado: Hi Storm

Storm Nordwind: Hi Zen. How are you today?
Zen Arado: not bad thanks
Storm Nordwind: Good :)
Zen Arado: a few minor irritations but I'm trying to have equanimity towards them :-)
Zen Arado: how are you?
Storm Nordwind: Very much lacking in energy. But smiling. :)
Zen Arado: I'm always lacking in energy.... Well compared to others anyway I think
Zen Arado: but how do I know?
Zen Arado: Maybe I forget what it is like to have lots of energy
Storm Nordwind: That can be so
Zen Arado: at the virtual ability meeting last night we were talking about TIC's
Zen Arado: able-bodied people who become temporarily incapacitated
Zen Arado: Hi Yaku
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey you both
Storm Nordwind: Like having a leg in plaster?
Storm Nordwind waves
Zen Arado: and it is so amusing how little seems to completely stop them doing anything
Zen Arado: well to me a leg in plaster would only be one leg
Zen Arado: whereas now I have both arms and both legs very weak
Zen Arado: and hands also
Zen Arado: but then again, I am used to being in a wheelchair
Zen Arado: I remember offering a neighbour a wheelchair to use for awhile because she had a sprained ankle
Zen Arado: but she wouldn't hear of it of course
Zen Arado: :-)
Storm Nordwind: Well there's pride of course. But there's also having to learn a whole new way of getting around.
Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
Zen Arado: yes, I have the advantage of being in various stages of disability all my life
Zen Arado: if I was suddenly confronted with the condition I am in now it would be very hard to take
Storm Nordwind nods
Zen Arado: but you learn to adapt over time
Zen Arado: and you don't even think about it most of the time
Zen Arado: because I spend my time doing things I am able to do
Zen Arado: and do reasonably well
Zen Arado: perhaps disability is a good way to develop equanimity
Zen Arado: but I admit I still get grouchy and irritated :-)
Storm Nordwind: When I was a teen, I read a book on philosophy. It started off by saying that philosophers were likely to get red-faced and grouchy as other people.
Zen Arado: maybe even more so :-)
Storm Nordwind: The point was to blow away a stereotype, but it did make me wonder why i was reading the book!
Zen Arado: one of my tutors said that philosophy doesn't bring happiness
Yakuzza Lethecus: oh region
Storm Nordwind: Not even Buddhist philosophy brings you happiness. :)
Zen Arado: Kira cafe

Restart here and we went to Kira, chat logs and timestamps:

Zen (zen.arado): restarts... Another test of equanimity :-)
Storm Nordwind: /me shrugs and smiles
Zen (zen.arado): a couple of weeks ago I forgot to check the timestamps and had to remove them
Storm Nordwind: Do you have a linux system?
Zen (zen.arado): the Lindon labs viewer has a sneaky habit of putting timestamps back on
Storm Nordwind: or a cygwin installation under windows?
Zen (zen.arado): no I use windows seven
Storm Nordwind: yes the prefs get lost
Zen (zen.arado): I don't know what cygwin is
Storm Nordwind: Cygwin is a unix command line screen for windows
Storm Nordwind: There's a very simple command that you can run that will remove the timestamps
Zen (zen.arado): Hi Bleu
Yaku (yakuzza.lethecus): hey bleu, bieup is in restart
Bleu (bleu.oleander): hi all ... thx for the tp
Zen (zen.arado): well it's easy enough to do from the preferences menu
Zen (zen.arado): it is remembering to do it :-)
Storm Nordwind: But not retrospectively
Zen (zen.arado): just talking about the way the Linden viewer adds timestamps to the log Bleu
Storm Nordwind: You can also import the log to Excel and do it, but that's hardly intuitive
Zen (zen.arado): now that's true
Bleu (bleu.oleander): thx Zen
Bleu (bleu.oleander): what is the command to remove them?
Storm Nordwind: I was mentioning a UNIX command you can run in cygwin or Linux.
Bleu (bleu.oleander): oh ok
Zen (zen.arado): it sounds too complicated for me
Storm Nordwind: much simpler actually than any other way!
Zen (zen.arado): yes if you know what you are doing :-)
Zen (zen.arado): keeping up with computer technology is a constant struggle for me
Storm Nordwind: /me sees if he can remember the command...
Storm Nordwind: <oldlogfilename cut -d" " -f2- >newlogfilename
Zen (zen.arado): thank you Storm
Storm Nordwind: /me chuckles
Zen (zen.arado): I think I would be scared to use that :-)
Zen (zen.arado): I wonder if we can go back yet
Storm Nordwind: I know we can't
Zen (zen.arado): how do you know?
Storm Nordwind: minimap
Storm Nordwind: And camming out
Bleu (bleu.oleander): all black on east side?
Storm Nordwind: All ocean on the cam

Equanimity:

Zen (zen.arado): I wanted to discuss equanimity a little more
Storm Nordwind: Please do :)
Zen (zen.arado): I looked up on article on tricycle
Zen (zen.arado): this is a quote:

" Every situation becomes an opportunity to abandon judgment and opinions and to simply give complete attention to what is. Situations of inconvenience are terrific areas to discover, test, or develop your equanimity. "

http://www.tricycle.com/insights/equ...ity-every-bite

Storm Nordwind: /me nods
Zen (zen.arado): So is equanimity more like a process than a state?
Storm Nordwind: I don't see it as such
Bleu (bleu.oleander): seems like more of a state to me
Storm Nordwind: testing it might be a process of course
Zen (zen.arado): Well it also seems something that needs to be developed
Storm Nordwind: Abandoning judgment might be a state to getting to the state for you
Zen (zen.arado): or do we develop a lack of equanimity?
Storm Nordwind: *process of getting to...
Bleu (bleu.oleander): probably a number of ways to get there
Storm Nordwind: In PaB terms, dropping is a similar process of revealing a state of being
Zen (zen.arado): are we conditioned by the world not to have equanimity?
Zen (zen.arado): I wonder if I will ever get there
Zen (zen.arado): always new challenges
Storm Nordwind: Certainly there are cultural and commercial pressures not to have equanimity, as I found out from the Monday morning discussion
Bleu (bleu.oleander): maybe harder to maintain the state under many circumstances
Zen (zen.arado): we hear everyone around us complaining about the state of the country, of the economy
Zen (zen.arado): blaming the government
Zen (zen.arado): blaming everyone
Storm Nordwind: That's not always a sign of lack of equanimity.
Storm Nordwind: You can have the motivation to improve something without being attached or averted
Zen (zen.arado): doesn't complaining signify a lack of equanimity?
Storm Nordwind: Complaining is a loaded word
Zen (zen.arado): True
Zen (zen.arado): it can mean just moaning but also pointing out a valid grievance
Storm Nordwind: For example, I will write today to someone whi got a booking wrong for us in Chicago in June. technically it will be a complaint, but i will not be whining - I just want to avoid paying an extra $200!
Zen (zen.arado): not sure grievance is the correct word
Zen (zen.arado): pointing out faults
Zen (zen.arado): how does that fit in with "abandon judgement and opinions"
Storm Nordwind: Again "judgment" is a loaded word
Zen (zen.arado): all of these words seem to fall apart when you scrutinise them carefully I think
Storm Nordwind: As one drives a car, one needs to judge, from cues, which is the best side of the road to drive on!
Zen (zen.arado): yes, we have to make sensible judgements all the time
Storm Nordwind: But if I start saying, the left is somehow better that the right, rather than the local convention, that would be less productive!
Bleu (bleu.oleander): one could say that is what free will is
Zen (zen.arado): it would also be rather dangerous :-)
Zen (zen.arado): free will is also a concept that starts to fall apart for me
Storm Nordwind: Well Zen, for some people it seems that that choice makes little difference to the safety of their driving! ;)
Zen (zen.arado): does anybody really have it?
Yaku (yakuzza.lethecus): at least not the hard form
Bleu (bleu.oleander): I think of it as comparing options and going with the best one at the time
Zen (zen.arado): Yes exactly Bleu
Zen (zen.arado): isn't that what everyone does all the time
Storm Nordwind: Not sure I find "free will" a useful concept anymore.
Bleu (bleu.oleander): of course we have no real way of knowing all the influences that push one option over another
Zen (zen.arado): everything in a situation including our own desires and urges and interests will push us towards a certain decision
Bleu (bleu.oleander): agree Storm
Zen (zen.arado): we probably don't need to either Bleu
Zen (zen.arado): it is just a concept invented by philosophers
Bleu (bleu.oleander): right Zen, would slow us down considerable
Zen (zen.arado): the word "free" is a strange word when you think of it
Storm Nordwind: /me observes that Bieup is back
Bleu (bleu.oleander): free from what?
Zen (zen.arado): since the world is full of constraints
Zen (zen.arado): okay shall we go back?
Storm Nordwind: Your choice, oh guardian!
Yaku (yakuzza.lethecus): :()
Storm Nordwind: I think that's a yes!
Storm Nordwind: You may wish to hit the flower :)

Back to Pavilion:

Zen Arado: okay, back in business :-)
Bleu Oleander: :)
Storm Nordwind does a quick check to see the NDR survived the sim reboot :)
Bleu Oleander: :)
Zen Arado: Well that quote seems like rubbish then ?
Zen Arado: since we need to have judgement and opinions
Zen Arado: but maybe she meant it in a different sense
Storm Nordwind: It's words. And context.
Zen Arado: yes
Bleu Oleander: like everything, there are good judgements and bad judgements, necessary ones and unnecessary one
Zen Arado: but maybe it is just dealing with what is rather than creating a story around the situation
Storm Nordwind: You can see what they meant. But you can also see that what they meant will not always be the meaning that someone may take.
Zen Arado: yes, when we start to form all these judgements and opinions that actually takes us away from dealing directly with what is happening
Zen Arado: and we get lost in the injustice of it all
Storm Nordwind: Now there's a loaded word too!
Zen Arado: "how could this be happening, how dare they do that" etc
Zen Arado: which one storm, injustice?
Storm Nordwind: yes
Zen Arado: I find the word "justice" being used as a euphemism for revenge in the judicial system
Storm Nordwind: Oh dear!
Zen Arado: we hope the killer gets his just rewards
Zen Arado: or brought to justice
Storm Nordwind: Not this "we"!
Zen Arado: well that's what people say
Storm Nordwind: I know
Storm Nordwind: The term "punishment" always sits uneasily with me
Zen Arado: me too
Zen Arado: Hi San :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey san
Santoshima Resident: hello ~ waves
Zen Arado: we are discussing a quotation about equanimity
Santoshima Resident: ok
Zen Arado: Every situation becomes an opportunity to abandon judgment and opinions and to simply give complete attention to what is. Situations of inconvenience are terrific areas to discover, test, or develop your equanimity.
Bleu Oleander: hi San
Santoshima Resident: hello
Zen Arado: "punishment" would be a good theme to discuss
Bleu Oleander: hi druth

druth Vlodovic: heya
Zen Arado: ...'Hi Druth
Yakuzza Lethecus: hello druth
druth Vlodovic: :)
Zen Arado: ignore the bit at the start of that note card I sent
druth Vlodovic: I was wondering :)
Zen Arado: it takes ages to scrollback in the Linden viewer
druth Vlodovic: I usually just pop to the chatlog file on my hard drive to copy/past anything
Zen Arado: yeah but I'm not too bright :-)
Zen Arado: I like to do things the hard way :-)
Bleu Oleander: how do you keep a chatlog file?
druth Vlodovic: gives a chance to practice your equanimity I suppose :)
Zen Arado: he he
druth Vlodovic: you set it in preferences and it saves as a text file in a secret location
Zen Arado: it is on your computer already Bleu
Zen Arado: but you can decide where to save it
Santoshima Resident: ty, for the notecard, Zen
Zen Arado: SL viewers automatically post it to roaming apps or something
Zen Arado: it tells you where if you look at preferences
Bleu Oleander: i don't see it in prefs
Yakuzza Lethecus: i think IM´s as a log are preset, but the mainchat isn´t logged by default
Zen Arado: I thought it was
Zen Arado: sealed as chat
Santoshima Resident: are you looking for the chat file on your HD Bleu?
Zen Arado: sometimes just searching for chat in search gets it
Bleu Oleander: in prefs
Zen Arado: it depends which viewer you are using
druth Vlodovic: what I did first time was just search my computer for the name of a person I knew on SL
Zen Arado: it is in prefs somewhere
Storm Nordwind: Very easy in Phoenix
Zen Arado: I can't find it in the Linden viewer at the moment

Second part of quote on equanimity:

Zen Arado: anyway, to continue that quote "
Zen Arado:

...Does your mind remain balanced when you have to drive around the block three times to find a parking space? Are you at ease waiting for a flight that is six hours delayed? These inconveniences are opportunities to develop equanimity. Rather than shift the blame onto an institution, system, or person, one can develop the capacity to opt to rest within the experience of inconvenience.

Zen Arado: I like the phrase :
Storm Nordwind: If you don't blame, you'll have no need to shift it :)
Zen Arado: ' one can develop the capacity to opt to rest within the experience of inconvenience. '
Zen Arado: perhaps it is just switching to direct action instead of all the thinking
Storm Nordwind: It's pure pragmatism. There's no gain to ruminating on it. And plenty of benefits by taking others approaches.
druth Vlodovic: you use energy when you worry or become upset
Zen Arado: yes
Zen Arado: hmmm ...it can be as simple as that?
Zen Arado: or can it :-)
Storm Nordwind: Why ever not? It's not complicated. :)
Zen Arado: that's the problem isn't it?
Zen Arado: We prefer "complicated"
Zen Arado: :-)
Storm Nordwind is too lazy to prefer complicated!
druth Vlodovic: ah, you discussed punishment :)
druth Vlodovic: I never punished my kids

Zen Arado: punishment is a big subject
druth Vlodovic: I only ever "got their attention" by force :-)
Zen Arado: I'm sorry but I have the ring my local health centre about a prescription they suddenly decided they want give me even though I have been getting it for 30 years, and I'm just taking direct action and not ruminating about their stupid system :-)
Storm Nordwind chuckles
Zen Arado: byee
druth Vlodovic: good luck :)
Storm Nordwind: Go fo it!
Yakuzza Lethecus: thx zen
Bleu Oleander: :) Zen
Santoshima Resident: bye Zen, thanks!
druth Vlodovic: "keep your eye on the ball"
Santoshima Resident: if you go to the middle of the fountain, lifting off through the roof is possible
Zen Arado: I'll just sit here since I can't teleport at the moment
Storm Nordwind: Buyeo reboot?
Santoshima Resident: bye for now ~ back in a couple weeks
druth Vlodovic: bye san
Storm Nordwind: Retreat well!
Bleu Oleander: take care San ... thx for the txt help
Bleu Oleander: must go also
Bleu Oleander: take care all
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye everyone
druth Vlodovic: we're all alone now
druth Vlodovic: so this is a theme week?
Storm Nordwind: I think they all are for the foreseeable future!
druth Vlodovic: nice
Storm Nordwind: But feel free to relax and dangle your feet in the pool :)
druth Vlodovic: I generally prefer to start with a structure and play with it, instead of starting with chaos and trying to do something with it
Storm Nordwind: I think we started that way 4 years ago, though it was looser. But eventually it became as you say.
druth Vlodovic: the pendulum swings
Storm Nordwind: Remind me to sit on the fulcrum, way out of the way of the swinging bob! :)
druth Vlodovic: ah, but then you miss the ride!
druth Vlodovic: all the fun is in the G-forces :)
Storm Nordwind: And you miss me vomiting down the back of your neck ;)
druth Vlodovic: exactly!
druth Vlodovic: umm
druth Vlodovic: you were implying that that was a bad thing?
Zen Arado: back
druth Vlodovic: front
Zen Arado: :)
Storm Nordwind: Zen, the sorter-outer, returns. Another successful mission accomplished.
Zen Arado: but still mystified

An aside on the British health care system:

Zen Arado: apparently they changed the repeat prescription system
Zen Arado: everything is tightening up here
Zen Arado: they are right probably because there is a a lot of wastage
Zen Arado: people get prescriptions that they don't really need
druth Vlodovic: rules and administration accumulates
Zen Arado: one of the problems of getting them free
Storm Nordwind: They do? What for? What do they do with them?
Zen Arado: well they probably get things they only might need
Zen Arado: or don't finish the full course of antibiotics or something
Storm Nordwind: They must be punished!
druth Vlodovic: or want to sell them
Storm Nordwind: Throw them in the Tower
Zen Arado: :-)
druth Vlodovic: we are getting so uptight about people using drugs "illegally" these days
Storm Nordwind: So nice the government is so caring about everyone's health :-/
Zen Arado: the health service costs the nation too much
Storm Nordwind: Nah
Zen Arado: is the government's opinion
Storm Nordwind: $3000 tax per person.
Zen Arado: in the UK I mean
Storm Nordwind: Sounds a good deal to me
druth Vlodovic: depends on the purpose of being in a society
Storm Nordwind: I'm talking about the UK - just translating into US currency
Zen Arado: Ah okay
druth Vlodovic: maybe health care spending is one of the few legitimate ways the gov't spends our money
Zen Arado: they have thrown a lot of people off disability benefit
Storm Nordwind: Do you know why? (Other than political credo)
Zen Arado: a lot of people abuse the system and make false claims
Zen Arado: they caught people out playing golf and doing five-mile runs while claiming disability benefit
Zen Arado: so they have tightened the claims procedure up
Storm Nordwind: But that's OK, yes? And a one-time thing. The tightened-up system can then run more efficiently for those that need it, right?
Zen Arado: it's okay as long as legitimate claimants don't lose out
Storm Nordwind: Indeed
Zen Arado: actually it can be quite difficult to determine whether someone is capable of work or not
Zen Arado: lots of people refuse to switch to a different occupation
Storm Nordwind: As difficult as determining whether someone else as equanimity! ;-)
Storm Nordwind: *has
druth Vlodovic: it's so frightening when you are dependent to have your source cut off for long enough for them to review your claim
Zen Arado: the other problem is that if there isn't much work about disabled people have little chance of finding a job when they have to compete with the able-bodied
Zen Arado: so they just get switched from one type of benefit to another
Zen Arado: at least nowadays workplaces are becoming more disabled friendly
Zen Arado: I mean, how can you work in a place with no disabled toilet if you are in a wheelchair?
druth Vlodovic: and there is the counter-argument that able-bodied people might be discriminated against if only disabled people and "minorities" can obtain certain benefits
druth Vlodovic: it all goes around in circles
druth Vlodovic: and gets emotional
Zen Arado: Yes
Zen Arado: equanimity is good

Equanimity and anger:

Zen Arado: you would think it would be so obvious that we should have equanimity after all this time
Zen Arado: and have seen the futility of getting annoyed and raging against things
Storm Nordwind: Perhaps each new generation makes the same mistakes and has an opportunity to learn the same lessons.
Zen Arado: yes
Zen Arado: perhaps it's a feature of this egoic self
Zen Arado: seeking to protect itself against a hostile world
Zen Arado: and something we learned for were trained to do
Zen Arado: so now we have to let ourselves be untrained again
druth Vlodovic: becoming angry means people become nervous of offending you
druth Vlodovic: so lacking equanimity has uses
Zen Arado: yes... It's all bad really
Zen Arado: I don't think venting does much good either
Zen Arado: it's just rehearsing anger
Storm Nordwind: I certainly don't want people to become nervous of offending me!
Zen Arado: yeah I'm not sure that is a good thing Druth
Zen Arado: people walking on tipytoes around one
Storm Nordwind: I prefer openness and honesty. And taking responsibility for what's said.
Zen Arado: yes
Zen Arado: well I think there are better techniques for dealing with anger
Zen Arado: actually, just sitting with the anger but not acting it out is better, I think
Zen Arado: even replaying the angry situation during meditation
Zen Arado: I agree Druth
Zen Arado: ruminating is not a healthy technique
Zen Arado: better to be able to just notice the angry thoughts or worried thoughts in meditation
Zen Arado: but trying not to get involved in this scenario and getting carried away
Zen Arado: anyway I better go and start patching this log together
Storm Nordwind: OK!
Zen Arado: thanks for coming
Zen Arado: byee
Storm Nordwind: I'll go check on other things too!
Storm Nordwind waves