The Guardian for this meeting was Eos Amaterasu. The comments are by Eos Amaterasu.

Eos Amaterasu: theme: bringing our practice traditions to this moment

--BELL--

Raffila Millgrove: hi Eos.
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Raffie
Raffila Millgrove: are you in US.. did you have dinner already? i am so hungry.
Eos Amaterasu: I am in Eastern Canada, where it is an hour before midnight :-)
Raffila Millgrove: ah. so that was long ago already....
Eos Amaterasu: there is no food in SL, alas!
Raffila Millgrove: well at least not the kind that will fill you up and make you feel satisfied.
Eos Amaterasu: hmm
Eos Amaterasu: we could follow this week's theme: bringing our practice traditions to this moment
Eos Amaterasu: this is an odd little place to come to just be
Raffila Millgrove: we could. how does your tradition.. fit you now.. do you use it as a resource?
Eos Amaterasu: well, for one I think there are multiple traditions, which, yes act as resources
Eos Amaterasu: that's a good way to put it
Eos Amaterasu: it's a way to get to the openness of here
Raffila Millgrove: so you have multiple traditions.. ?
Raffila Millgrove: one good session i read in log.. people spoke of their childhoods. and how they got to where they are now..
Eos Amaterasu: that sounds like a good way to approach it
Eos Amaterasu listens
Raffila Millgrove: hehe. raffi was listening...
Raffila Millgrove: to eos
Raffila Millgrove: about multiple traditions. you said mutlple.. were you referring to yourself in that?
Eos Amaterasu: I've done a lot of buddhist practice, but before that I was into Catholicism, which I got from my family
Raffila Millgrove: are there things.. you learned as a catholic.. that are still with you today?
Eos Amaterasu: Well, yes.
Eos Amaterasu: There was an experience I had one summer on the St Lawrence river
Eos Amaterasu: in a church next to where we rented a house for the month
Eos Amaterasu: 6 am mass
Eos Amaterasu: sung
Eos Amaterasu: in Latin
Eos Amaterasu: I may have been the only one there, maybe a couple others
Eos Amaterasu: (I just remembered that)
Eos Amaterasu: simple presence
Eos Amaterasu: so beautiful, and in song
Eos Amaterasu: hmm
Eos Amaterasu: this may be such a moment?
Raffila Millgrove: a moment now? that you relive it again? in memory?
Eos Amaterasu: well, no, that's gone
Eos Amaterasu: but it might reverb at times :-)
Raffila Millgrove: what a neat word to use: reverb
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Raffila Millgrove: for a sung mass.. it's a good word isn't it?
Eos Amaterasu: yes, an amazing word now that I look at it
Raffila Millgrove: yes!

--BELL--

Raffila Millgrove: on one of the retreats.. Pema went on a hike with someone Ifor a long time) was that you?
Eos Amaterasu: all the way back to 'in the beginning was the word' reverb
Eos Amaterasu: yes, it was
Eos Amaterasu: In Malta
Raffila Millgrove: how was that? I read all about it of course. it seemed fascinating.
Eos Amaterasu thinks of the shell-ridden valley landscape
Raffila Millgrove: did you bond with the people there.. the lady hostress Pia/mia.. i mix up her name. who lives there. She seemed so warm and friendly.
Eos Amaterasu: we, it was a 5 day RL get together of AVs from the PaB community
Eos Amaterasu: Yes
Raffila Millgrove: hello Storm. talking about Malta
Raffila Millgrove: the retreat there.
Eos Amaterasu: It was held in a "farm" owned by an ex Jesuit
Eos Amaterasu: (hi Storm)
Storm Nordwind: Hi both
Storm Nordwind: Missed that one
Raffila Millgrove: Eos went on a hike with Pema. a long one.
Eos Amaterasu: inside the theme of how we bring our tradition(s) to this moment
Storm Nordwind: Ah thank you :)
Raffila Millgrove: i was curious.. they didn't talk much on it.. they were gone a long time.
Eos Amaterasu: it was a day of silence
Eos Amaterasu: a lot of people went for walks or hikes
Eos Amaterasu: eventiually dozed off in the afternoon :-)
Raffila Millgrove: ah right. lol.. that would explain "not much talking" lol
Storm Nordwind chuckles
Raffila Millgrove: the thing.. where mia/pia.. this door into the basement .. you remember all that. it seemed like a big deal but again.. not too much detials.
Raffila Millgrove: i am so wishing to meet her, does she ever come here anymore to PaB sl?
Eos Amaterasu: Arabella?
Eos Amaterasu: I don't see her here very much, no
Raffila Millgrove: is that her name? the one who lives there in Malta? Arabella?
Raffila Millgrove: where you ate pasta at her house?
Storm Nordwind: She was in the dream workshop i think 2 weeks ago.
Raffila Millgrove: wow why do i call this lady Mia/Pia.. this is worse than usual.
Storm Nordwind: There was a Pia
Raffila Millgrove: oh there is pia!
Raffila Millgrove: oh thank god. she was the one with the door/dream/basement thing.
Raffila Millgrove: does pia come here anymore to PaB sl?
Eos Amaterasu doesn't know a pia
Raffila Millgrove: uh oh.
Storm Nordwind: there's also a... one moment... back-up memory being accessed...
Raffila Millgrove: maybe i put pia on malta and this happen elsewhere.
Raffila Millgrove: uh oh.
Eos Amaterasu: mixed realities, those always get you
Raffila Millgrove: oh yes.
Raffila Millgrove: sometimes i cannot remember. did this happen. what it a dream? those are the worst.
Storm Nordwind: Back-up memory very laggy today. More coffee ordered
Raffila Millgrove: lol Storm
Raffila Millgrove: also i mix up the lives of my children sometimes. never good. they hate that. i also mix up their favorite foods.
Raffila Millgrove: well it's five. it's a lot of try to remember. all the detial.
Eos Amaterasu: reality decreases with the square of the distance
Storm Nordwind: (Pia Iger was once a guardian)
Raffila Millgrove: ok.
Raffila Millgrove: so she's gone now?
Eos Amaterasu: Hmm, never knew him/her
Storm Nordwind: Do you mean LIA? :)
Raffila Millgrove: she had some door/basement/thing.. dream.. and so did Pema. with luck i will get my facts straight on this.. but.. i am not going to meet her. i guess.
Storm Nordwind: Lia Rikugun?
Eos Amaterasu: if you come across a door, enter it :-)
Raffila Millgrove: well if you never met her.. it didn't happen in Malta.
Raffila Millgrove: i guess.
Storm Nordwind: Probably Lia
Eos Amaterasu: we did go through some exercises like that , there
Raffila Millgrove: ah.
Raffila Millgrove: ok. so it's Lia?
Eos Amaterasu: Lia, yes
Raffila Millgrove: i can add that to her name which i have been calling Mia/Pia.
Storm Nordwind: My guess. Then from germany i think = local
Raffila Millgrove: now i guess i call her Mia/Pia/Lia. that should keep everyone plenty confused.
Storm Nordwind: these are just mia names ;)
Storm Nordwind: which might not translate from English to American dialect!
Raffila Millgrove: the other day i had PIla has a box alt.. i got that straight. some of this gets pathetic.
Storm Nordwind chuckles
Raffila Millgrove: i finally centered Pila in Hawaii with no boxy.. now i will have to get this Pia properly sorted.
Storm Nordwind: perhaps it's better to be slightly wrong than completely clueless and unaware? :)

--BELL--

Raffila Millgrove: well if you are clueless. you do not suffer. being confused is slightly distressing.
Storm Nordwind: So I'm sorry - did I divert the course of the conversation away from traditions etc?
Raffila Millgrove: mm no i was already being a diversion.
Eos Amaterasu: on the theme,
Raffila Millgrove: i got there first.
Raffila Millgrove: i dragged up Malta.
Raffila Millgrove: out of the blue.
Eos Amaterasu: Raffie mentioned that some approached that through discussing their childhoods
Raffila Millgrove: yes i mention the session where they spoke of their childhood.
Eos Amaterasu: I mentioned a bit of my early Catholic up bringing
Raffila Millgrove: it was 1 pm.. on Sunday .. it was great reading. it ran two hours.
Eos Amaterasu: what background do you bring to this, Raffie?
Raffila Millgrove: yes Eos also mention this mass.
Eos Amaterasu: sung in latin
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Raffila Millgrove: she heard sung. when she was young. and she said it reverbs thru her life. we loved that word.
Eos Amaterasu: also re the Latin mass, reverbing 'in the beginning was the word'
Raffila Millgrove: so you are up to date.. we are admiring the word reverb as just perfect. to describe the memory of this mass... well the echo of it.
Eos Amaterasu: mabye we ant nought but reverbing
Eos Amaterasu: maybe we are ....
Eos Amaterasu: maybe we
Eos Amaterasu: maybe
Eos Amaterasu: ah, perhaps: I come _from_ a tradition
Eos Amaterasu: the space in common to us three
Eos Amaterasu: is not owned by any of us
Eos Amaterasu: I guess I see traditions as 'graceful instruments' (at best)
Raffila Millgrove senses music in Eos.
Raffila Millgrove: do you play music yourself Eos?
Eos Amaterasu: I listen a lot
Eos Amaterasu: have played a bit
Raffila Millgrove: what do you listen to? what are some of your favorites?
Eos Amaterasu: the red squirrels in the woods :-)
Eos Amaterasu: I go for walks :-)
Eos Amaterasu: sometimes I walk into one of those moments like in that church
Eos Amaterasu: even here there is the hooting and the bird sounds
Raffila Millgrove nods. walking in woods.. so much to see/hear/feel. very sensual meaning.. using senses.
Raffila Millgrove: smell too of course.
Eos Amaterasu: the feel of ground that isn't paved over, but is soft and springy
Eos Amaterasu: very organic
Raffila Millgrove: i was taught by the rangers.. how to know which kind of pine. by smelling as well as other characteristics. pine trees-whew they have such diffrent smeels to them. one smells like vanilla.
Eos Amaterasu: that is my current church of walking in how to be
Raffila Millgrove: you are lucky to live near such a good "church".
Eos Amaterasu: wow, that's awesome. I'm alway amazed when people can name things in their environment, making them distinct
Storm Nordwind imagines the coconut scent of the New Forest gorse bushes
Eos Amaterasu sniffs
Raffila Millgrove: things in nature have such strong/distinct smells. you can sniff all day..
Eos Amaterasu: it only takes a few molecules to get a message

--BELL--

Raffila Millgrove: i think early people must have truly depended on all that sniffing. for safety, survival.. for pleasure too. we dont smell as much as our forebearers used to.
Storm Nordwind smiles at the ambiguity :)
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Eos Amaterasu: sniff and smell
Eos Amaterasu: there's an instinct of curiosity in the nose
Raffila Millgrove: yes!
Eos Amaterasu: (thinks of various animals, like guinea pigs sniffing... :-)
Eos Amaterasu: So, do either of you want to comment on this week's theme?
Raffila Millgrove: mm. well. i was not too good at this.. yesterday. i am going to talk into the 1 am chat. as Storm suggest so i can express one idea.
Storm Nordwind: I did a little during the Sunday 1pm session mentioned earlier. Aph asked us about our traditions first and what resources may have been afforded by them.
Storm Nordwind: Kept trying to disagree with her about one thing, but to no avail! ;-))
Raffila Millgrove: eh. gee. well state your point again then!
Raffila Millgrove: we'll pretend it's 1 am!
Storm Nordwind: haha - already done on the 99 days log. But i can repeat it...
Raffila Millgrove: ah. well i don't do the 99 days.. log so i cannot see that. please go ahead storm.
Storm Nordwind: The Golden Rule thing, Aph held that is was common to all religions. I said no, maybe some, maybe even many, but certainly not all.
Raffila Millgrove: ah.. i read that.
Storm Nordwind: But then the title of the session got called by it!
Raffila Millgrove: yes. i saw that. i got upset.
Storm Nordwind: Aw!
Raffila Millgrove: i had to calm down and read things.. to see.. where that went off.
Storm Nordwind nods
Raffila Millgrove: and. it's a common misconception.
Raffila Millgrove: a very common one.
Storm Nordwind: indeed
Eos Amaterasu: Do as you would be done by
Raffila Millgrove: that it's in all major religions.
Raffila Millgrove: it's not really.. it's expressed in the oldest Hebrew .. in Judiasm different. in the negative.
Raffila Millgrove: and it changes what is meant.
Raffila Millgrove: Don't do.. is much different from a commandment to "do"
Eos Amaterasu: "do unto others as you would have them do onto you": it's a good heuristic
Raffila Millgrove: that was one difference.
Storm Nordwind: Well I wrote in the 99 days that it's : "certainly not a feature of many indigenous religions (such as my own Heathenry). "Do as you would be done by" is not necessary for a religious moral code, nor for a civilized society to survive successfully. Which does not mean that indigenous religions do/did not have morality - far from it! Theirs was very often simply a different (and often stricter) morality than many people brought up in Abrahamic faiths in the modern world are used to or can easily comprehend now. And in those cultures where personal honor and reputation was key, to uphold the values of that society was a very desirable given."
Raffila Millgrove: thank you Storm.
Eos Amaterasu: "cause no harm" is the first heuristic
Storm Nordwind: What do you mean Eos?
Raffila Millgrove: Eos. do you see the difference?
Raffila Millgrove: one says DO.. the other says do not do harm.
Eos Amaterasu: starting point is to stop: starting with the flows that cause harm
Storm Nordwind: But that's not common to all religions. Only to some. And it's not necessary for successful civilization.
Raffila Millgrove: there are christian teachers who feel that Do onto others--and several versions of same.. is a Call to action.
Eos Amaterasu: (I'm just speaking personally, not doctrinally)

--BELL--

Raffila Millgrove: and in the hebrew Judaism.. you were being cautioned AGainst taking certain actions...
Raffila Millgrove: so just between those two.. seen as being very close to one anothe with some shared holy books. there is a difference. and the differneces seems to continue thru all the relgions.. not exactly the same thing for each one.. imporant differences.
Eos Amaterasu: can you reverb that hebrew formulation, raffie?
Raffila Millgrove: haha Eos
Eos Amaterasu: how would you say it?
Raffila Millgrove: there's no call to action in saying Do Not treat someone ...
Raffila Millgrove: that's a caution.. you can take no action at all.. if you follow the caution.
Raffila Millgrove: you are not requred to take any action. simply to avoid certain actions.
Raffila Millgrove: see the difference?
Eos Amaterasu: yes, I see the difference
Eos Amaterasu: but it's superficial
Eos Amaterasu: I always saw the "do onto others as you would have them do onto you" as a negative prescription
Raffila Millgrove: ok well to some.. it's not.
Raffila Millgrove: but i can understand how you feel it's a minor difference if at all.. superficial.
Raffila Millgrove: and my dinner arrived! so i must rush off to eat it as i am so hungry.
Raffila Millgrove: hugs to you both.
Eos Amaterasu: there's essential stuff that neither one speaks
Eos Amaterasu: okay, I should go to bed :-)
Storm Nordwind: Bye Raffi!
Raffila Millgrove: ty Eos for hosting us.
Storm Nordwind: and Eos!
Eos Amaterasu: ciao raffie, storm
Storm Nordwind: Yum