2012.05.22 07:00 - Tasting and Transcendence

The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal, filling in for Riddle Sideways. The few additional comments are by Eliza Madrigal.
Alternative Title: Transcending What We Think We Know 
Note: it is my impression that Darcon's quotes are from Neal Donald Walsch, though stated in just one place. ty. :)

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Storm :)
Storm Nordwind: Greetings Shri Eliza Ji
Eliza Madrigal: :) nice to see you today
Storm Nordwind: You too :)
Eliza Madrigal: any traction with this week's theme, or other angles? I have been writing poems about turnips and listening for the music to begin
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Storm Nordwind: Er... no... but I'm fascinated by the turnips!
Eliza Madrigal: well it is really about not knowing the taste of food

Storm Nordwind: There is a point in that... Can you describe the taste of food - any food - without using words you're already meant to know the meaning of (like "sweet" or "bitter"), or without comparing to another known taste (like "similar to a mango")?
Eliza Madrigal thinks...
Eliza Madrigal: suppose most things are that way... only someone very sensitive to a speaker might know mown grass may mean frozen turnips...
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sunshine :)
Sunshine Vayandar: hi Stormy ;)
Storm Nordwind: Welcome my Zulu friend!
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Sunshine Vayandar: pls carry on about the turnips ;p

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: I guess we're always trying to find what we are experiencing
Eliza Madrigal: haha
Sunshine Vayandar: sitar time ;)
Eliza Madrigal: :) not hearing the music yet... what is your experience? :)
Eliza Madrigal: "do you hear what I hear..."
Sunshine Vayandar: hearing the birds only
Storm Nordwind: From the sitar? I've switched off my audio because it's playing the same short loop over and over!
Eliza Madrigal: just as well perhaps :)
Sunshine Vayandar: it takes time for me to hear it

Eliza Madrigal: well there are variations but can't jump from the loops until I am hearing...
Eliza Madrigal: quite the metaphor :)
Storm Nordwind: I'm loth to mute it :)
Eliza Madrigal: ahhhh....there it is...just like that
Sunshine Vayandar: my experience is ...that I am hearing you now ;)
Eliza Madrigal smiles suntuned
Sunshine Vayandar is tuning in

Eliza Madrigal: Sun, when you get a chance to see the dome...
Sunshine Vayandar: will go look
Eliza Madrigal: make sure you play with windlight settings and lay on the ground looking up for a while
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Sunshine Vayandar: kk ;)) sounds fun
Eliza Madrigal: Sun, here was Storm's question: [07:12] Storm Nordwind: There is a point in that... Can you describe the taste of food - any food - without using words you're already meant to know the meaning of (like "sweet" or "bitter"), or without comparing to another known taste (like "similar to a mango")?
Sunshine Vayandar: sorry back ;)
Sunshine Vayandar: hi Bruce ;)
Eliza Madrigal: Morning Bruce :)
Bruce Mowbray: Good morning, Eliza, Sunshine, Storm!
Sunshine Vayandar: hmm I would probably use both
Storm Nordwind smiles at Bruce and his classy T shirt

Sunshine Vayandar: ah you mean using new ways to describe?
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Sunshine Vayandar: how are you Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: Just made it -- and now see that I put the sign up too high.
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Eliza Madrigal: I guess so.... or pointing to what is indescribable...
Bruce Mowbray: I'm all right, thanks, Sunshine.
Bruce Mowbray sees flashy new train car go by.
Sunshine Vayandar enjoys the PaB atmosphere again

Storm Nordwind: I think my point is that if you were offering the new food to someone, you might at most give them a little forewarning of what to expect. But in the end you'd just have to say, "Try it. Taste it." And that would be the only way of conveying the experience.



Bruce Mowbray: We enjoy having you here, Sun!
Eliza Madrigal: wonderful for you to be here Sun
Sunshine Vayandar: I enjoy having me here too ;p
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Sunshine Vayandar: ty ;))
Eliza Madrigal nods... or the ol teacher's response of a student's frustration with "wouldn't want to spoil the pleasure of your finding out yourself"
Sunshine Vayandar: hi Darcon ;)
darcon Xue: Thank you Sun love :-)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Darcon, welcome to PaB again
darcon Xue: Thank you Eliza love :-)
Eliza Madrigal: we're approaching a pause... will tone down sitar and see if we have thoughts on transcendence...

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: thanks :))
darcon Xue: welcome :-)
Sunshine Vayandar: this pause reminds me of the new manga I am working on
Bruce Mowbray: Are you discussing "shared experience"?
darcon Xue: so what is transcendence?
Bruce Mowbray listens . . .
Eliza Madrigal: what are you finding Sun?
Bruce Mowbray: a new manga?
Sunshine Vayandar: yes when I was here last time and we talked about the 9 second breaks
Sunshine Vayandar: I would like to make that a new manga ;)
Sunshine Vayandar: so I took photos and have the log ....working on it
Eliza Madrigal: :) excited to see
Sunshine Vayandar: ;) it helps me refocus on these breaks
Eliza Madrigal: (and good question Darcon... we've been sort of beginning to find our way with the word/idea(?)... so would love to hear your thoughts about that)

Bruce Mowbray: I don't know the term "manga." Please, a brief definition?
Sunshine Vayandar: Bruce - manga is a japanese comic book
Bruce Mowbray: ahhh! TY!
Sunshine Vayandar: like the one in front of you
Sunshine Vayandar: that I made for the PaB bday
Eliza Madrigal: (bottom slide show) :))
Bruce Mowbray: Oh -- I SEE!
Sunshine Vayandar: I think another one about the 9 second breaks - would be useful for all
Eliza Madrigal: felt refreshing when you did that
Bruce Mowbray: Great idea.
Sunshine Vayandar: thinking of putting it in the cafe in the village
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Eliza Madrigal: well we could have it here for a while...
Eliza Madrigal: change them out :)
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Eliza Madrigal: the session pavilion seems the touchstone inworld, of the pauses
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Sunshine Vayandar: yes

Sunshine Vayandar: hi San ;)
Santoshima Resident: mornin'
Eliza Madrigal: Hi San
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, San!
Eliza Madrigal: earlier Storm was suggesting that one can never adequately 'give a description' of a taste... that there is always reference to something 'else'...
Sunshine Vayandar: yes better taste it yourself too
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Eliza Madrigal: you showed the feeling of the party pretty clearly Sun
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Eliza Madrigal sits on hands :))

darcon Xue: The world is so much brighter, so much better, because you are in it.
darcon Xue: If only you knew all the gifts that you bring to others. You would never feel sad again, but only rejoice in how wonderful you are!
darcon Xue: I would not say these things just to make you feel good. The things I’ve said here happen to be true.
darcon Xue: :-)

Eliza Madrigal: :) transcendence as awareness?
Eliza Madrigal: (oops hands free)
Sunshine Vayandar: ;o)
darcon Xue: :-) transcendence as absence of wishes?
Bruce Mowbray: I wondered about that, too, darcon.

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: Transcend can mean to "rise above" or something like that -- but it can also mean "shared" or "held in common." That's why I asked if we were discussing "shared experience" when Storm said we'd have to taste things for ourselves.
Eliza Madrigal: we could be, nice connection Bruce :)
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Bruce Mowbray: For example, we were "sharing" the experience of your sitar playing earlier, Eliza.

darcon Xue: "If there were such a thing as sin, this would be it: to allow yourself to become what you are because of the experience of others." ---CWG - N.D, Walsch
Bruce Mowbray: or were we?
Bruce Mowbray: Hmmm. Fascinating, darcon - -
Eliza Madrigal: Hello Visitor, welcome to Play as Being
Sunshine Vayandar: hi Visitor ;)
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Visitor
Eliza Madrigal: I'll give you a note and connect via IM shortly s as not to interrupt conversation :)

Bruce Mowbray: I also find that when others convey their experiences (through art, literature, philosophy, music...) -- it can help me become what I am . . .
Bruce Mowbray: help me to realize and actualize what I am.
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
darcon Xue: "You cannot experience yourself as what you are until you've encountered what you are not. This is the purpose of the theory of relativity, and all physical life. It is by that which you are not that you yourself are defined."

Bruce Mowbray ponders, "Through indirection we find direction out."
Bruce Mowbray: I sometimes don't know where my "balance points" are until I am quite off-balance.
Eliza Madrigal smiles
darcon Xue: :-)
Sunshine Vayandar: true
Bruce Mowbray smiles back. . . . ;-)
Eliza Madrigal: quite

Bruce Mowbray: Reminder to Sun and San that Art of Being in Motion projects are now being installed at the Dome.
Sunshine Vayandar: ty Bruce ;) lookin forward to checking it out
Bruce Mowbray: for gala celebration on Sunday, June 3rd.
Sunshine Vayandar: oh kk ty ;) let me add that to my calendar
Bruce Mowbray: Talking about "balance" brought the idea of "motion" to mind, you see.
Santoshima Resident: please excuse me ... forgot about work! bye ~
Eliza Madrigal: :) eek
Sunshine Vayandar: byebyeee San
Sunshine Vayandar: what time is it Bruce?

Eliza Madrigal: imbalance revealing balance...
Eliza Madrigal: really something to this... timeless nature of time...
Eliza Madrigal: or Sun's tag... perfectly imperfect
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)

Bruce Mowbray: I think it is at noon slt -- but will check that again. Do you know, Storm?
Sunshine Vayandar: kk ty
Storm Nordwind: I think you are right
Sunshine Vayandar: thanks
Bruce Mowbray: yeah, I think it's a noon.
Eliza Madrigal: usually at noon :)
Storm Nordwind: Usually is, to allow a PaB session immediately after
Bruce Mowbray: There will be more notices coming from Bleu as we get closer to the date.
Sunshine Vayandar: ah yes
Eliza Madrigal: the parameters are simple Sun... no larger than 4x4x4 I think
Eliza Madrigal: and showing "motion"
Sunshine Vayandar: is that a hint?
Sunshine Vayandar: ;p
Eliza Madrigal laughs
Bruce Mowbray: and the suggestion is that you include a notecard with your exhibit . . .
Sunshine Vayandar: kk
Eliza Madrigal: would never push... you know me...hehe...
Sunshine Vayandar: lol
Sunshine Vayandar: Bleu has such great ideas
Eliza Madrigal: or give strong suggestions...
Sunshine Vayandar: no you are not like that hmm
Eliza Madrigal: :)

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: Yes, she does. And this one is teaching folks a lot about how to make prims do cool stuff.
Bruce Mowbray: I must adieu for now.
Eliza Madrigal waves, thank you Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: Celebrate Being in everything, and be joyous. Bye for now.
Eliza Madrigal: :) some of Darcon's quotes and Bruce's angles brought me to think of:
Eliza Madrigal: When you realize how perfect everything is you will tilt your head back and laugh at the sky. Buddha
Sunshine Vayandar: byebyee Brucie
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Eliza Madrigal: transcendent joy

Sunshine Vayandar: Osho had a nice quote that talks about this too
Sunshine Vayandar: It was about how the world is like a celebration ....it's only us that don't see the party
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)

Storm Nordwind: It is true. I feel it often. But it is hard for those who suffer to feel it. How best to help them?
Sunshine Vayandar: Just being feeling it yourself - it helps I think
Storm Nordwind: Perhaps - though I have met people who are driven deeper, through resentment.
Eliza Madrigal: this seems true... the presence conveyed in anything seems the heart
 Eliza Madrigal: deeper to what Storm?
Storm Nordwind: deeper into their suffering

darcon Xue: "Yes, yes, I know, sometimes the things that occur don’t look perfect…but that is only a matter of perspective. Because you can’t see Perfection does not mean it is not there. Give it Time. It will show itself for sure. Then you will again smile at Love’s love…and how it plays out. For now, trust that it will. Always. And in all ways. "

Storm Nordwind: The last thing they want - so they say - is to have a happy person around them
Storm Nordwind: They associate it with smugness
Storm Nordwind: Or self-righteousness
Sunshine Vayandar: hmm yes
Eliza Madrigal: well they are seeing an object... 'happiness' perhaps
Storm Nordwind: Which of course are projections, but they're not in the mood to hear that!
Eliza Madrigal nods...
Eliza Madrigal: I feel that at times... maybe not resenting the other but feeling not to linger
 darcon Xue: "The reason that the true Master does not complain is that the true Master is not suffering, but simply experiencing a set of circumstances that you would call insufferable."

Eliza Madrigal: driving deeper can be important
Storm Nordwind: They also claim that you're being indifferent or dismissive, and obviously not being compassionate since you're maintaining your own happiness.
Storm Nordwind: This is all something I've come across a lot since I'm happy all the time!
Eliza Madrigal: does it have to do with tenderness....
Eliza Madrigal: so if I project that because you state happiness, you cannot relate to my suffering...
Sunshine Vayandar: sorry bit distracted
Storm Nordwind: One does not see clearly when one is in pain
Sunshine Vayandar: brb
darcon Xue: "Suffering has nothing to do with events, but with one's reaction to them. What's happening is merely what's happening. How you feel about it is another matter."

Eliza Madrigal: I don't see you as a tender place to rest... which may be a false evaluation... but understandable too...
Eliza Madrigal: (if seeing that way - projection)
Eliza Madrigal: someone goes through a tragedy and it seems important to cry with them.... that kind of thing..
Eliza Madrigal: but if making a tragedy that seems something else...

darcon Xue: "I suggest that it is your judgements which keep you from joy, and your expectations which make you unhappy."
Eliza Madrigal: hard to parse the lines... maybe awareness has to do that

Storm Nordwind: Resonating with someone's pain is different than becoming the pain yourself. It is like the difference between love and attachment.
Eliza Madrigal nods
Eliza Madrigal: if speaking of SL though, it is sometimes hard to see a range of emotions in people...
Eliza Madrigal: so someone may present in a prominent key, so to speak

Storm Nordwind: It is hard to make compassion shine always through the text chat words!
Eliza Madrigal: I suppose some in RL too
Eliza Madrigal: YES
Eliza Madrigal: sometimes I go back and read texts that really moved me...
Eliza Madrigal: but can't *show* anyone why
Eliza Madrigal: :)

Eliza Madrigal: as with the taste of turnips
Storm Nordwind nods and smiles
darcon Xue: :-)
Eliza Madrigal: but if we sit together we pick it up

Sunshine Vayandar: have to go ;( too much happening suddenly
Eliza Madrigal: Aw, okay Sun :)
Eliza Madrigal: so nice to see you
Storm Nordwind waves bye to Sun
darcon Xue: see you love :-)
Sunshine Vayandar: take care all ;) ty for the great ideas

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: I suppose it is also the equivalent to thinking that if intelligent, negative
Eliza Madrigal: or depressed
Eliza Madrigal: not that there isn't basis for that... but not an absolute...
Storm Nordwind: Not sure I understand that one Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: well if someone smiles a lot they might be seen as a simpleton
Eliza Madrigal: or is optimistic generally
Eliza Madrigal: Pema changed my mind about that :)

Storm Nordwind: Oh I haven't come across that one... but perhaps that's how I'm regarded, but people are too polite to say!
Eliza Madrigal: :) am sure not, Storm
Storm Nordwind: You may recall my mentioned the johari window exercise I did a few years ago that including a couple of psychologists... one said "Storm you're obviously very intellectual; you should try being more intuitive. And the other said "Storm you're obviously very intuitive; you should try being more intellectual"!
Eliza Madrigal: YES
darcon Xue: Hasle Free Zone http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSj5tST9YEE
Eliza Madrigal: wonder if PaB is mature enough to do this excercize :)

Storm Nordwind: Hmm...
Storm Nordwind: How can one answer that safely? ;)

Eliza Madrigal: :)) hope so
Eliza Madrigal: thanks Darcon :)
Storm Nordwind: Well please excuse me for now... I have a bunch of things clamoring for my attention!
darcon Xue: we are very welcome :-)
Eliza Madrigal: it is true that we don't know until we know... like, hah (back to turnips) I was 30 before I'd really tasted one but I thought I had all my life
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, okay thanks Storm :)
Eliza Madrigal: Bye for now
Storm Nordwind: Bye!
darcon Xue: See you love :-)

darcon Xue: "Doing is a function of the body. Being is a function of the soul."
Eliza Madrigal: Being, not being "this or that"
darcon Xue: :-D
Eliza Madrigal: my experience defies both categories, happy/sad, if I stop to look...
Eliza Madrigal: it is just that we don't have room for so many distinctions in discourse yet
Eliza Madrigal: perhaps :)
darcon Xue: :-)
Eliza Madrigal: anyway thanks for visiting again Darcon
darcon Xue: I thank you for allowing me to be with you :-)