2012.05.15 19:00 - Notice Your Judging

The Guardian for this meeting was Eos Amaterasu. The comments are by Eos Amaterasu.

Eos Amaterasu: "Notice your judging"
 

--BELL--

Eos Amaterasu: ( )

druth Vlodovic: hey
Eos Amaterasu: Hi druth, hi Rhiannon
Rhiannon Dragoone: oh, there you are druth; you were invisible before now.
Eos Amaterasu: today's topics revolve around this weeks "judgement" theme
druth Vlodovic: oh? who are we judging?
Eos Amaterasu: Suggestion: "notice your judging"
Rhiannon Dragoone: Judgment theme? Oh, probably me, I would guess, druth. lol
Eos Amaterasu: "judgment" has so many meanings...
Rhiannon Dragoone: ARe you darker than usual, druth? You look like someone poured INdia ink on you
druth Vlodovic: I got a new skin ages ago
druth Vlodovic: why?
Rhiannon Dragoone: Well, what little I see looks really good, druth
druth Vlodovic: Thank you :)
Rhiannon Dragoone: Why not? It's a nice thing to notice changes in people's appearance, when they are conscious changes.
Eos Amaterasu: Suggested "lab session" for upcoming 90 seconds: "notice your judging, and notice its feeling"

--BELL--

Rhiannon Dragoone: Would need to know the sense of "judge."
druth Vlodovic: hmm, judging myself usually results in guilt and shame
druth Vlodovic: judging others makes me feel sharp and powerful
druth Vlodovic: I'd guess that's the attraction
Eos Amaterasu: I noticed that in any kind of noticing there is positioning, which can quickly become "judging"
Eos Amaterasu: relative evaluation which is probably all right, but then hangover from it lingers
Rhiannon Dragoone: judging yourself would result in either guilt, shame, or pride. And judgming others might make you feel more powerful, unless it's your very sense of inferiority which is making you put yourself above them, in a juding way
Rhiannon Dragoone: "I'm really not inferior--look, I'm judging them, aren't I?"
Eos Amaterasu: more relative positioning games
Eos Amaterasu: evaluating, thinking, shoring up reference points....
Eos Amaterasu: emotional protection
Eos Amaterasu: being scared
Eos Amaterasu: toughening skin
druth Vlodovic: hmm, on one hand you can become judgemental due to your placement, on the other you change your placement using judging
Eos Amaterasu: it's a jungle out there :-)
Eos Amaterasu: lo, there's Aphrodite!
druth Vlodovic: hey aph!
Aphrodite Macbain: Hey. are you making tough judgements?
Eos Amaterasu: Yes, judging is not just a negative thing
Aphrodite Macbain: No it is a necessary thing. We judge constantly
Eos Amaterasu: we couldn't survive without some level of judging, some discimination
Aphrodite Macbain: every time we take a step we judge or evaluate
Eos Amaterasu: discrimination
Eos Amaterasu: zactly
druth Vlodovic: "too hot" etc
Rhiannon Dragoone: hi aph!
Aphrodite Macbain: Heya Rhi
Aphrodite Macbain: I wonder whether judging is a culturally imposed/motivated thing
Eos Amaterasu: There's a ancient line of thinking about judgement being fundamental
Eos Amaterasu: to perception and to thinking
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Eos Amaterasu: it's the primary way existence is affirmed, captured, met
Aphrodite Macbain: nods.
Eos Amaterasu: after that logic and all kinds of ratiocinations can follow
Aphrodite Macbain: But do we always have to judge? Can we not simply accept certain things?
Eos Amaterasu: what is the diff?
Aphrodite Macbain: Not question, not analyse
druth Vlodovic: I suspect that everything is known in relation to other things
Eos Amaterasu: to accept things as they are is not so much to judge them as to acknowledge their distinctiveness (which can shade over into judging, perhaps)
Aphrodite Macbain: I sometimes accept that things are what they are w/o making a moral judgement
druth Vlodovic: which would require comparing
Aphrodite Macbain: comparing?
Aphrodite Macbain: what with what?
Eos Amaterasu: I think there is a basic "judging" without dualistic or comparative thinking
Eos Amaterasu: that's it!
Eos Amaterasu: bingo!
Eos Amaterasu: then we discuss it, and judging happens
Aphrodite Macbain: what is it that we would be judging? the validity? the moral good? the wokability?
druth Vlodovic: how can you judge without comparing?
Eos Amaterasu: judging has more meanings than just the comparative ones
Aphrodite Macbain: I judge sometimes by applying
Aphrodite Macbain: will this work?
druth Vlodovic: then you're comparing it to it's task
Aphrodite Macbain: I am not say will this work better than something else. I am saying simply will this work?
Eos Amaterasu: but Aphrodite, what did you have in mind, more specifically, when you chose this topic (judged it to be a good one :-)?
Aphrodite Macbain: I am applying
Aphrodite Macbain: It was a conversation I had with Zen. He was saying that things are what they are. We should learn to accept that and not judge.
Aphrodite Macbain: I disagreed and I wanted to test this out by hearing what others said.
Aphrodite Macbain: We always judge.
Eos Amaterasu: one of the shades of judging is the one that corresponds somewhat to connecting with what is
Aphrodite Macbain: I wish Zen were here. perhaps I misjudged him!
Eos Amaterasu: no need, Zen is then, this is here
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Aphrodite Macbain: No, I mean perhaps I misunderstood him
Eos Amaterasu: (so, in next 90 seconds, "notice your judging")
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Aphrodite Macbain watches
Rhiannon Dragoone: Ayn Rand said the essence of capitalism is "Judge and be prepared to be judged."
Eos Amaterasu: but what do you experience?

--BELL--

Eos Amaterasu: Hi stevenaia
stevenaia Michinaga: hi all
Aphrodite Macbain: waves at Stevenaia
Eos Amaterasu: "notice your judging" is the theme
druth Vlodovic: hey steve, luci
Aphrodite Macbain: and waves at Luci
stevenaia Michinaga: waves to everyone
Lucinda Lavender: waving to all
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Luci
Lucinda Lavender: slowly the grayness dissipates
Aphrodite Macbain: I jsut noticed we have new cushions. Perhaps they were added on MOnday
Eos Amaterasu: yes, there seem to be more...
stevenaia Michinaga: been noticing I avoid noticing my judging... until today when I sat in judgement in an official capacity
Lucinda Lavender: what sort of capacity was that Aph..?
stevenaia Michinaga: a perfect thing to notice this week
Lucinda Lavender: oops I mean Stevenaia
Aphrodite Macbain: If we base what we discuss on experience, I am interested in looking at how we make our judgements, what is the process? o we think things through or are they made in an instant?
Aphrodite Macbain: What shapes the way we evaluate or choose
Aphrodite Macbain: I fear I make too many snap judgements
stevenaia Michinaga: someone wanted to change the building code due to a set of unique circumstanses (so they belived)
Lucinda Lavender: I read a book not too lang ago called How We Decide and now I cannot remember what I read there:)
stevenaia Michinaga: thier job was to convice us the building was still safe
Aphrodite Macbain: Did they succeed in getting the changes accepted?
stevenaia Michinaga: they were convincing for the most part
stevenaia Michinaga: but not everyone on the board agreed (I was usually the desenting vote)
Aphrodite Macbain: The Tipping POint is also about snap, prejudiced decisions we make. Scary information.
stevenaia Michinaga: but I looked at multiple sides of the issue before deciding
Aphrodite Macbain: and then went with your gut?
Aphrodite Macbain: (which apparently is what most people do)
stevenaia Michinaga: jsut weighing safety concerns and opionions of those around me
Aphrodite Macbain: Did they get passed?
Eos Amaterasu: how did that feel, stevenaia?
stevenaia Michinaga: with additional conditions
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Eos Amaterasu: I think a lot of "judging" is having a healthy connection with life and making the right responsive moves
stevenaia Michinaga: I was satified we did what was in the best interests of the multiple contradicting requirements
Eos Amaterasu: like when you are walking
Aphrodite Macbain: without thinking you mean?
Eos Amaterasu: judgement is not necessarily syllogistic
stevenaia Michinaga: not sure what you mean, without thinking
Rhiannon Dragoone: hi steve
Aphrodite Macbain: we do things automatically without beng aware we are making decisions or judgments
Eos Amaterasu: we weigh things on many levels and dimensions, many of which are not particularly verbal
Rhiannon Dragoone: hi lucinda
stevenaia Michinaga: it's also rare that you are in a position to have as much information as you need to evaluate a situation. we were in a postion where were were close to that
Aphrodite Macbain: Hence the importance of taking time
Lucinda Lavender: nodding to rhi:)

--BELL--

stevenaia Michinaga: rhi? is there a lag?
Rhiannon Dragoone: steve, it's called cooking. lol
stevenaia Michinaga: yum
stevenaia Michinaga: it is rare you ahve the time and information to make a completely informed judgement
stevenaia Michinaga: I felt very close to that situation today
Rhiannon Dragoone: And now it's time to eat. So I'll talk to you all, later. Don't *judge* me too harsely
Rhiannon Dragoone: lol
stevenaia Michinaga: depends what you will be eating
Rhiannon Dragoone: lol
Eos Amaterasu: Time for me to sleep, by Luci, Aph, druth, Rhi, Stevenaia
stevenaia Michinaga: night eos
Rhiannon Dragoone: Chicken
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Rhiannon Dragoone: nite, Eos
druth Vlodovic: bye eos
Rhiannon Dragoone: nite all
Lucinda Lavender: takes time to process the information...sleep well eos:)
stevenaia Michinaga: enjoy
Aphrodite Macbain: Nite eos
Eos Amaterasu: ciao1
Aphrodite Macbain: nite Rhi
Aphrodite Macbain: So it all worked out Stevenaia?
stevenaia Michinaga: for the most part they got what they asked for, it was a well prepared presentation and they had the needed answers and agreed to our addidional safety provisions
druth Vlodovic: so personality and such didn't gte in the way?
Aphrodite Macbain: Good for you for taking the time to do it right. That was a decision you had made.
Aphrodite Macbain: Gotta go now...
druth Vlodovic: cya aph
Lucinda Lavender: bye for now aph:)
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye bye nite nite
stevenaia Michinaga: ie, everyone is happy , there were personality issues :) but they did not enter into the factual presentation
stevenaia Michinaga: night Aph
Lucinda Lavender: sounds pretty ideal...
stevenaia Michinaga: i found it amazing that professionalism overshadowed arrogance today
Lucinda Lavender: yes!
druth Vlodovic: separating emotion and even morals seems a first step towards "seeing clearly"
druth Vlodovic: though i've heard arguments in the reverse :)
stevenaia Michinaga: nods, for all parties. I had no intension of offering any "leeway" but I didn;t ahve to
Lucinda Lavender: nods
stevenaia Michinaga: strange pillows
stevenaia Michinaga: hehe
druth Vlodovic: there, I need a plate of chicken in front of me :)
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
druth Vlodovic: ah, i'm off, have fun guys
Lucinda Lavender: :))
stevenaia Michinaga: night Druth
Lucinda Lavender: Night druth:)

--BELL--

stevenaia Michinaga: been shopping?
Lucinda Lavender: yes...to the boho hobo that eliza suggested
Lucinda Lavender: I like interesting leggings:)
stevenaia Michinaga: yes
Lucinda Lavender: soulds like it was judgement at it's best
Lucinda Lavender: sounds
stevenaia Michinaga: also a rare thing
stevenaia Michinaga: even when I dissagreed and voted against something at least three others agreed so there was even balance in disagreemtn
Lucinda Lavender: yes..getting informed and taking time and considering lots of possibilities....:) nice to have balaance!
stevenaia Michinaga: sure beats yelling :)
Lucinda Lavender: yeah...some people feel pressured and it begins to wind up...perhaps because they have already made their choices?
stevenaia Michinaga: and need to be "right" when others may diagree
stevenaia Michinaga: dissagree
Lucinda Lavender: nodding
Lucinda Lavender: if we let go of being right and keep talking...sometimes new ideas come forth
Lucinda Lavender: or at least views are considered and cleared
stevenaia Michinaga: nods, usually something better
stevenaia Michinaga: if there is some degree of openness
Lucinda Lavender: concerend about this...concerned about that...yet looking for an outcome without serious negative consequences
Lucinda Lavender: like something being unsafe
Lucinda Lavender: or dangerous
stevenaia Michinaga: nods
stevenaia Michinaga: bedtime for me Luci, good seeing you
Lucinda Lavender: me too
Lucinda Lavender: after a bit
Lucinda Lavender: still light out:)
stevenaia Michinaga: night
Lucinda Lavender: sweet dreams:)
Lucinda Lavender: night