2012.05.27 13:00 – Silly sallying

The Guardian for this meeting was Aphrodite Macbain. The comments are by Aphrodite Macbain.

Aphrodite Macbain: Hello Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Aph!
Aphrodite Macbain: Do you have your jet pack on?
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, the jetpack makes it easier for me to get between sessions.
Bruce Mowbray: I just came from Seth's class.
Aphrodite Macbain: I see....
Aphrodite Macbain: what did he lecture on this time?
Bruce Mowbray: it is still going on, actually.
Bruce Mowbray: On wants and needs.
Aphrodite Macbain: It was nice of you to come and keep me company
Bruce Mowbray: and the interactions between subconscious mind and waking mind.
Bruce Mowbray: You are GREAT company for me, Aph.
Aphrodite Macbain: Big topics!
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, big session.
Bruce Mowbray: I will read it all again later, of course.
Aphrodite Macbain: I've just come from Cindercroft where we were asked to wear silly outfits from our inventory
Bruce Mowbray: How has your day been so far?
Bruce Mowbray: silly outfits?
Bruce Mowbray: shall we put them on now?
Bruce Mowbray: heh heh.
Aphrodite Macbain: I've been bouncing on pogo sticks and unicycles and wearing silly hats etc
Bruce Mowbray: You should have seen Kori last night!
Aphrodite Macbain: why?
Bruce Mowbray: Great!
Bruce Mowbray: Well, she changed he clothes about a dozen times..
Bruce Mowbray: and I put ten photos of her wardrobe in the wiki log.
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Bleu!
Bleu Oleander: hi Aph, Bruce :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Hello Blue
Aphrodite Macbain: I'm sorry I missed the Guardian meeting this a.m. I was asleep
Bruce Mowbray makes a mental note to go to the Dome to see how progress with Art of Being projects is coming along.
Bruce Mowbray: A good meeting, Aph.
Bleu Oleander: some new pieces in the dome!
Bruce Mowbray: Talked mostly about "topics" for these sessions and how to integrate stuff.
Aphrodite Macbain: I gather the theme for this week is sally. I'm not quite sure what to do with that...
Aphrodite Macbain: sally forth?
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, sallie... I'd never heard the term before Halifax retreat last July.
Bleu Oleander: I'm not familiar with that term, you?
Bruce Mowbray: yeppers, I am now!

Bruce Mowbray: Yes, sally forth....
Aphrodite Macbain: Strange. I guess I need to find out the context for its use
Aphrodite Macbain: why is that a "theme"?
Bruce Mowbray: To experiment with wandering into new areas of the imagination.
Bruce Mowbray: sort of like a "brain storm" with no judgments.
Aphrodite Macbain: sally may mean moving ahead
Aphrodite Macbain: trying out
Bruce Mowbray: moving anywhere your imagination takes you. SL is great for that!
Bleu Oleander: then I sally all the time :)
Aphrodite Macbain: silly sally
Aphrodite Macbain: me too
Bruce Mowbray: afk for just a sec..... brb.
Aphrodite Macbain: Googling sally...
Bleu Oleander: I did that ... didn't seem to help
Bleu Oleander: I think Eos is going to send an email about it
Bruce Mowbray: Instead, Google "Sally forth."
Bleu Oleander: somehow I don't think the Google answers and the PaB meaning are the same?
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Eos did just send an email about it.
Aphrodite Macbain: I did- no help. It just explains the meaning of sally forth not sally
Aphrodite Macbain: oh I'll check his email
Bruce Mowbray: "Sally" is a shortened verb form (or perhaps noun form) of "Sally forth."
Aphrodite Macbain: no help
Aphrodite Macbain: I'm not clear why the term sally was intended to be a theme...
Aphrodite Macbain: it's a verb
Bleu Oleander: a bit like daydreams?
Aphrodite Macbain: that's a noun
Bruce Mowbray: Sallying forth is a very important function of consciousness, Aph....
Bleu Oleander: or mini mental vacations?

Bruce Mowbray: yes, like that, indeed.
Aphrodite Macbain: It is Bruce? Where has it been used in the discussion of consciousness Bruce?
Aphrodite Macbain: Can you give me any references?
Bruce Mowbray: Imagination's stallions roaming unbridled.
Aphrodite Macbain: Who says that is sallying?
Bruce Mowbray: I do. My stallions also do.
--BELL--
Aphrodite Macbain: I've found it. It is a military term
sal·ly (sl) intr.v. sal·lied, sal·ly·ing, sal·lies 1. To rush out or leap forth suddenly. 2. To issue suddenly from a defensive or besieged position to attack an enemy. 3. To set out on a trip or excursion: sallied forth to see the world. n. pl. sal·lies 1. A sudden rush forward; a leap. 2. An assault from a defensive position; a sortie. 3. A sudden emergence into action or expression; an outburst. 4. A sudden quick witticism; a quip. See Synonyms at joke. 5. A venturing forth; a jaunt. "Rush of besieged upon besiegers; excursion; lively or witty remark, sally forth+go out on a journey. From the french, "saille: salient
Bleu Oleander: taking a short trip through one of your many stories?
Bruce Mowbray loves "Sallied forth to see the world."
Bleu Oleander: the world within your mind
Aphrodite Macbain: hmm
Aphrodite Macbain: or not
Aphrodite Macbain: I am afraid I don’t know what to do with this. We need a question or proposal that can be discussed...
Bruce Mowbray: worlds within worlds....
Aphrodite Macbain: more like words within words. Any suggestions?
Bleu Oleander: a visualization
Bruce Mowbray: Here we are. . . in a world within a world. . . looking for a topic within a topic....
Bleu Oleander: let’s start with imagination
Bruce Mowbray: kk.
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Bleu Oleander: how do you go there?
Aphrodite Macbain: yes? and what about imagination? Where can we take that noun?
Bruce Mowbray thinks imagination is also a verb.
Bleu Oleander: what encourages that space to open for you?
Aphrodite Macbain: no, that's "imagine"
Bruce Mowbray: ah yeah.
Bruce Mowbray: ex-English teacher, too. For shame.
Aphrodite Macbain: Good question Blue.
Aphrodite Macbain feels a bit more comfortable now.
Bleu Oleander: don't worry about the noun/verb thing
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Zenji!
Bleu Oleander: hi Zen
Aphrodite Macbain: HI Zen
Zen Arado: hi all
Aphrodite Macbain: we are discussing imagination and what encourages it to work for you we’re moving on now...to imagination
Bruce Mowbray convinces himself not to worry about parts of speech . . . Sallies forth from that one.
Bleu Oleander: how do you find that space of creativity, imagination, open doors of the mind?
Bruce Mowbray: First, I try to find an artistic medium, Bleu.
Bruce Mowbray: and there are many -- some are imaginary.
Bleu Oleander: could be you could imagine a staircase
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Bleu Oleander: with a door at the top
Bleu Oleander: go up the stairs and open the door

Aphrodite Macbain: I find it is often triggered by hearing new ideas or seeing new things
Aphrodite Macbain: the door opens when my brain is stimulated.

Bleu Oleander: what do you see?
Aphrodite Macbain: depends on what's going on
Bruce Mowbray: an open space --- a vast space.
Bleu Oleander: step out
Bleu Oleander: what is there?
Bleu Oleander: how does it feel?
Bruce Mowbray: good.
Aphrodite Macbain: Daunting
Bleu Oleander: I think of a sally as a trip out the door perhaps
Bruce Mowbray: Whenever I am in a tight situation, I try to expand the space....
Aphrodite Macbain: I can sally forth when I have a new thought under my arm
Bruce Mowbray: yes, a trip out the door into a larger space.
Bleu Oleander: coming back feels refreshed
Aphrodite Macbain: Zen, is this making any sense to you?
Zen Arado: I don't think I understand the concept at all sorry
Bruce Mowbray: How are you doing with this, Zen?
Bleu Oleander: ready to get to work on my painting or whatever
Bruce Mowbray: We're talking about "sallying forth". Does that sound crazy or does it make sense?
Zen Arado: to me creativity and imagination arise when I'm doing nothing else
Zen Arado: it isn't something that can be provoked
Zen Arado: perhaps you have to do work with ideas beforehand

Zen Arado: and then allowing them to simmer in your unconscious
Aphrodite Macbain: yes, I agree.
Bruce Mowbray: The imagination probably "works" by tapping into the subconscious mind. . . but perhaps also "boring."
Aphrodite Macbain: I need to be provoked
Bruce Mowbray: me too, Aph.
Zen Arado: didn't Einstein say something like that?
Bleu Oleander: what provokes you?
Bruce Mowbray: I need to prime the pump.
Aphrodite Macbain: probably
Zen Arado: He could do the physics and math but only after an initial realisation took place
Bruce Mowbray: If I am writing poetry, for example, I need to read a great poem.
Zen Arado: he got the idea of relativity sitting in a tram looking at a clock face or something
Aphrodite Macbain: yes. I think scientists use their imagination and creativity as much as artists do
Bruce Mowbray: yes, Einstein is inspirational in his metaphors.
Zen Arado: yes especially initially, then they can refine the ideas with their mathematics and experiments
Bruce Mowbray: and his thought experiments.
Aphrodite Macbain: But first they need an idea or hypothesis to be tested: e.g. what if...etc?
Bleu Oleander: I have thought experiments as an artist, do you Zen?
Zen Arado: unfortunately no
Bruce Mowbray: actually, Einstein imagined that he was riding on the clock face....
Bruce Mowbray: what would reality look like at the speed of light?
Zen Arado: I seem to have to just paint and see what happens
Zen Arado: at least nowadays

Bruce Mowbray: Hmmm. It happens WELL, Zen!

Aphrodite Macbain: I found this theme of movement (in Art as Being) motivated me to use my imagination and to explore images that would reflect one aspect of the subject. As a result, I discovered lots of new things

Bleu Oleander: great Aph
Aphrodite Macbain: don’t you find that Bleu?
Bleu Oleander: yes

Lusting after abstracts

Zen Arado: when I was doing traditional stuff I just copied photographs but made a different version of them
Bruce Mowbray: I lust for your abstracts, actually.
Bruce Mowbray: (Sorry, but that's true.)
Zen Arado: I can’t even seem to abstract from reality
Bruce Mowbray: Your abstracts ARE reality, for moi, Zen.
Zen Arado: although I am doing flowers at the moment :-)
Bruce Mowbray: Hmmm..

Bruce Mowbray loves that white rose.
Zen Arado: or flowery shapes anyway
Bleu Oleander: I had fun reacquainting myself with Mark Rothko's work for one of my pieces
Aphrodite Macbain: 2 conversations going here... Bruce and Zen, please continue to discuss abstracts and then afterwards Bleu and I can talk about the creative process
Bleu Oleander: ha!
Bruce Mowbray: Rothko breaks me down in tears.
--BELL--
Bleu Oleander: yes me too
Bleu Oleander: can you show us one of your new flower paintings Zen?
Aphrodite Macbain: What prompts YOU to create new things Bruce, not just being inspired by others like Rothko.
Bruce Mowbray waits for a response from Zen, first.
Zen Arado: I am still working on one
Zen Arado: I haven't done a series :-)
Bruce Mowbray listens for more.
Zen Arado: trying to remember what I painted before that
Zen Arado: I did one of a marina
Zen Arado: my marina :-)
Bruce Mowbray: oh yes, I have seen that marina.
Zen Arado: and a colour switch one of a landscape
Zen Arado: but it was an abstract marina
Zen Arado: I don't know, I don't think much about paintings
Bruce Mowbray: good not to think much about them.
Zen Arado: I just seem led to do them in a certain way
Zen Arado: I often paint over old ones
Aphrodite Macbain: It comes from your unconscious? It is not deliberate?
Bruce Mowbray: Where can I see this abstract marina! I lust to see it!
Bleu Oleander: my paintings are about 90% thought and 10% paint
Zen Arado: well mine are the other way around probably
Aphrodite Macbain: artists work differently
Bleu Oleander: yes
Aphrodite Macbain: there are many forms of artistic expression
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, that is clearly the case, Zenji.
Zen Arado: the painting itself suggests things to me
Bruce Mowbray: yes, of course it does!
Zen Arado: takes me in a different direction than an original plan
Bruce Mowbray: It is emergence!
Zen Arado: I don't know
Aphrodite Macbain: emergence from where?
Bruce Mowbray: And it is perfectly all right NOT to know!
Aphrodite Macbain: Of course. I'm simply interested Bruce

Zen Arado: Art historians analyse art, painters paint
Zen Arado: I bet many famous artists would be so surprised at what some modern artists say about their work
Zen Arado: :-)
Bruce Mowbray: Artists are in touch with a "reality" beyond the reality of physics.
Bruce Mowbray: Thank goodness!
Aphrodite Macbain: Let's not glorify artists over others
Bleu Oleander: why not?
Bleu Oleander: hehe
Bleu Oleander: only kidding :)
Aphrodite Macbain: They usually have good imaginations and good skills and if they are really good, they also have something to say
Bruce Mowbray: I doubt that anyone -- even neurobiologists, whom I fear will be the dictators of our new world - could tell you where they emerge from, Aph.
Zen Arado: I only see myself as a pretty ordinary art club Pinter
Zen Arado: I'm certainly not a really good artist
Zen Arado: :-)
Aphrodite Macbain: interesting slip there Zen

Zen Arado: it was a Freudian voice typing slip :-)
Bruce Mowbray: Zen, with all the compassion I can muster, I now tell you that you are not to judge your own art....
Bruce Mowbray: you are a superb artist.
Aphrodite Macbain: I just have become tired of the artist/genius/starving in the attic stereotype
Aphrodite Macbain: WB Zen
Aphrodite Macbain: we seem to either glorify or put down; sorry - I'm off on one of my rants again: I'll stop and listen for a while:-)
Bruce Mowbray: If I could afford to buy all of Zen's abstracts, I would do so.
Bruce Mowbray: and I would hang them on the walls of my humble hermit house...
Zen Arado: well there aren't that many people who would think the same Bruce, not where I live anyway
Bruce Mowbray: and I would be infinitely rich for having hung them here.

Bleu's stairways

Aphrodite Macbain: Blue, do you think you are simile to Zen in your approach to art making?
Bleu Oleander: no...seems I have a different approach
Bruce Mowbray sits on hands and listens.
Bleu Oleander: most of my creativity occurs in my mind ... only later comes out on canvas
Aphrodite Macbain: It seems to come from your intellect
Zen Arado: actually Bleu is more correct
Aphrodite Macbain: and your skills allow you to express what is in your mind
Bleu Oleander: not more correct, just my way
Zen Arado: because abstract art requires a more conceptual approach I think
Zen Arado: it is supposed to be conceptual
Bruce Mowbray: more conceptual? Really!?
Aphrodite Macbain: she is different, Zen, not more correct.
Zen Arado: that's why I waste so much paint :-)
Aphrodite Macbain: There is no such thing as correct in art making
Bruce Mowbray was thinking "more in touch with subconscious".
Bleu Oleander: I see my paintings up the stairs and way out the doorway :) then I try to paint them
Zen Arado: no I guess not
Bruce Mowbray: Hmmm..
Aphrodite Macbain: smiles. Up the stairs and out the doorway?
Bruce Mowbray ponders "out the doorway."
Aphrodite Macbain: what do you mean by that metaphor? Bleu
Bleu Oleander: to continue the imagination metaphor
Bruce Mowbray remembers "sallying forth."
Bleu Oleander: yes
Aphrodite Macbain: sorry.
Bruce Mowbray: np, Aph!
Aphrodite Macbain puts her head in her hands and shakes her head
Bruce Mowbray: O dear!'
Bleu Oleander: be gentle
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, by all means be gentle with Aph, Aph.
Aphrodite Macbain: up the stairs and out the doorway means that your imagination is in overdrive?
Bruce Mowbray: Not necessarily.
Aphrodite Macbain: Bleu?
Bleu Oleander: no preconceived ideas ... just see where it goes
Bruce Mowbray: It merely means (for moi) that the imagination has been given free roaming permissions.
Bleu Oleander: sometime no where
Aphrodite Macbain: ok imagination into "oversally"
Bleu Oleander: but the wondering is fun
Aphrodite Macbain: let's work on it in these 90 secs
Bruce Mowbray: kk.

--BELL--

Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks
Zen Arado: perhaps the most creative people are the ones who can let go most their preconditioned ideas
Aphrodite Macbain: yes.
Aphrodite Macbain: but how do we get into that state of letting go?
Bleu Oleander: exactly Aph

Zen Arado: but what we are getting at is whether or not that can be forced
Zen Arado: ?
Bleu Oleander: can be encouraged, not enforced perhaps?

Aphrodite Macbain: For me it is when I encounter a new idea
Aphrodite Macbain: and the well trodden path diverges
Bleu Oleander: coaxed out to play
Aphrodite Macbain: yes. No shoulds allowed!
Aphrodite Macbain: yes.
Aphrodite Macbain: tickled
Bruce Mowbray: yeah, open the gates and let those stallions roam freely.
Aphrodite Macbain: I'd watch out for the stallions- they get a little pushy and create a lot of dust
Bleu Oleander: follow those stallions
Bruce Mowbray: Afraid of a bit of trouble? Let it happen.

Zen Arado: I think I said before on numerous occasions that often I get ideas during meditation
Zen Arado: during meditation your reasoning rational processes are allowed to subside
Aphrodite Macbain: listens
Zen Arado: and that can allow things to come up
Zen Arado: things that are normally pushed down or hidden from view
Aphrodite Macbain: Nods. Zen once those processes subside, what happens?
Zen Arado: well the same should happen with you Aphrodite
Zen Arado: because you also meditate?
Aphrodite Macbain: yes. It does.

Aphrodite Macbain: That is ANOTHER way new ideas bubble up
Bruce Mowbray recalls that Aph is a fine artist herself.
Zen Arado: sometimes at retreats people don't like the things that come up
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Zen, I have also experienced that at retreats.
Aphrodite Macbain: yes- Zen - so they push them back down?
Zen Arado: Pema once said he keeps a voice recorder for ideas that come up during meditation
Aphrodite Macbain: Facing them rather than burying them?
Aphrodite Macbain: From that rich soil, new ideas can grow
Bruce Mowbray: Make a larger and larger space.
Zen Arado: yes, although that's a slightly different topic
Zen Arado: we're talking more about creative ideas here than problems in our lives
Aphrodite Macbain: yes but can't creative ideas come out of discord and difficulties Zen?
Zen Arado: But lots of things can come up :-)
Bruce Mowbray: Sllying forth -- into creativity. . . How it happens.
Zen Arado: yes I was just thinking that too
Bruce Mowbray: Sallyinbg*
Bruce Mowbray: Sallying*
Aphrodite Macbain: Sillying?
Zen Arado: thinks of the painting called "the scream' :-)
Bruce Mowbray: that also, of course.
Aphrodite Macbain: I often feel that way  :-O
Bleu Oleander: creative ideas come at many different times and in many places
Zen Arado: sillying is good
Zen Arado: although my voice typing doesn't know that word :-)
Bruce Mowbray ponders his inner screams.
Zen Arado: sullying it said
Aphrodite Macbain: yes, sillying IS good because it frees up the imagination
Aphrodite Macbain: I have come from a party where we wore silly outfits
Aphrodite Macbain: It was very creative
Bruce Mowbray: Walking up Bleu’s stairway and opening the door.... also frees up the imagination.
Zen Arado: the sillier the better
Bleu Oleander: imagination happens
Aphrodite Macbain: shaking out the cobwebs, bring in the light?
Zen Arado: wishes he could be more silly
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Bruce Mowbray also hopes for silliness....
Bleu Oleander: have you seen the laughing rats?
Bruce Mowbray makes a note to open the gates....
Aphrodite Macbain: ummmm
Aphrodite Macbain: rats?
Aphrodite Macbain: why are they laughing?
Bleu Oleander: looking for link
Bruce Mowbray guesses the rats are laughing at US!
Aphrodite Macbain: I am going to Bert’s meditation to see if new ideas emerge...
Bruce Mowbray: kk.
Bruce Mowbray: I must also adieu.
Zen Arado: ha ha but you mustn't meditate with a motive :-)
Aphrodite Macbain: Find it Bleu?

Bleu Oleander: not yet
Bleu Oleander: will send it to you if I do
Zen Arado: just sit and see what happens
Aphrodite Macbain: I thought you could meditate with a motive..
Zen Arado: byee

Aphrodite Macbain: Bye Zen
Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks creative Bleu
Bleu Oleander: :)
Bleu Oleander: bye for now
Aphrodite Macbain: bfn