The Guardian for this meeting was stevenaia Michinaga. The comments are by stevenaia Michinaga.

Yakuzza Lethecus, Santoshima Resident, and Claire Maskelyne join me for this session

Yakuzza Lethecus: hey there, good morning steve
stevenaia Michinaga: indeed
Yakuzza Lethecus: you fell out of bed ?
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey san
stevenaia Michinaga: my cat pushed me
stevenaia Michinaga: hi san
stevenaia Michinaga: he wanted to come inside, meow's at the back door
Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: I don't know who's log it is, so I claimed it
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s a bank holiday today in germany, pentecoste (pfingsten)
stevenaia Michinaga: Memorial day (Monday) today, luckilly
stevenaia Michinaga: here
Yakuzza Lethecus: is there any kind of celebration or do you celebrate ?
Yakuzza Lethecus: well celebrating might be the worng word
stevenaia Michinaga: day off, cook burgers,
Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, same here
stevenaia Michinaga: begining of summer
stevenaia Michinaga: it's hot here
Yakuzza Lethecus: hello claire
stevenaia Michinaga: hi claire

--BELL--

stevenaia Michinaga: I'm trying to get a handle on this week's selected theme, the topic of "sallies": exploratory imaginary excursions
Claire Maskelyne: Hello to you both. :)
stevenaia Michinaga: did san leave
Santoshima Resident: swimming
stevenaia Michinaga: ooops she floats in the fountain, hehe
Yakuzza Lethecus: a little refreshment :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: zen also talked about transhumanism at some point, when i saw the recend chat in the friends of pab group i felt a bit reminded of that, but no further thoguhts
Yakuzza Lethecus: claire ur aware of the logging around the circle ?
Yakuzza Lethecus: since ur in the friends group i would guess you are but haven´t seen you
Claire Maskelyne: I've been part of Play as Being for a while, but I haven't been active...
Claire Maskelyne: Some hard things are happening in my life.
stevenaia Michinaga: Claire has been here before
stevenaia Michinaga: I know once, I belive Arch spoke of Transhumnaism, don;t remember much
Santoshima Resident: quick: what's the difference between transhumanism and eugenics
Santoshima Resident: in one word or less
stevenaia Michinaga: panics, google wikkipedia, is this a trick question
Santoshima Resident: no trick ... i don't understand either of them ... but they seem somewhat similar
Yakuzza Lethecus: in which way do they feel similar to you ?
Santoshima Resident: to me?
Yakuzza Lethecus: yes
Santoshima Resident: {consulting my notes}
Claire Maskelyne: One word - diversity.
Santoshima Resident: Transhumanism, abbreviated as H+ or h+, is an international intellectual and cultural movement that affirms the possibility and desirability of fundamentally transforming the human condition by developing and making widely available technologies to eliminate aging and to greatly enhance human intellectual, physical, and psychological capacities.[1] Transhumanist thinkers study the potential benefits and dangers of emerging technologies that could overcome fundamental human limitations, as well as study the ethical matters involved in developing and using such technologies. They predict that human beings may eventually be able to transform themselves into beings with such greatly expanded abilities as to merit the label "posthuman".[1]
Santoshima Resident: Eugenics is the "applied science or the bio-social movement which advocates the use of practices aimed at improving the genetic composition of a population", usually referring to the manipulation of human populations.[2][3] The origins of the concept of eugenics began with certain interpretations of Mendelian inheritance, and the theories of August Weismann.[4] Historically, many of the practitioners of eugenics viewed eugenics as a science, not necessarily restricted to human populations; this embraced the views of Darwinism and Social Darwinism.
Claire Maskelyne: Transhumanism, ideally, is an exploration of diversity. Eugenics is a cutting-off of diversity.
Claire Maskelyne: Does that sound reasonable?
Santoshima Resident: "overcoming fundamental human limitations ...

--BELL--

Santoshima Resident: and
Santoshima Resident: compared to eugenics def,: "... improving the genetic composition of a population... "
Claire Maskelyne: I think one of the big problems with modern genetic engineering is sheer biological determinism. It's a bad prejudice to have.
Santoshima Resident: both rely on some population determining what are "fundamental human limitations" and what are "improvements" to the gentic makeuop of a population
stevenaia Michinaga: like genetic engineering, thought tht was happening with unknow consequences
Santoshima Resident: seems to be so
Claire Maskelyne: I think 'The Selfish Gene' actually had tremendous negative impact on the scientific community - it has taught people to believe that genes are fixed, immutable, the primary unit of biological behavior.
Claire Maskelyne: And, really, I don't believe it contributes much of anything to science in the end but 'genes replicate, and environments eventually eliminate a good number of maladaptive ones'.
Claire Maskelyne: I bring this up because ever since that time, a lot of biologists seem to look to the immutable gene as the final word in how a single organism develops, and that's where eugenic thought comes from - the idea that by eliminating genes that *might* predict maladaptive traits, you will definitely create healthier people.
Claire Maskelyne: It doesn't really work that way.
stevenaia Michinaga: I do not belive we are wise enough to be choosing what is good or bad, to eliminate what is bad is to miss the point of balance
Claire Maskelyne: And it cuts off the possibility of growth.
stevenaia Michinaga: everything is incrmental
Santoshima Resident: good points
stevenaia Michinaga: but are we talking about the future? Science fiction? or pondering the affects it all has on us now?
Santoshima Resident: perhaps transhumanism is eugenics in an updated model
Claire Maskelyne: I don't think denigrating transhumanism is the answer.
Claire Maskelyne: My hope is that it would bring people away from a human-centric worldview.
Santoshima Resident: it = transhumanism, claire?
Claire Maskelyne: Yes.
Santoshima Resident: ok, thanks
Claire Maskelyne: Rejecting it on the basis of fear and prejudice - which seems to me to be generally the case - is foolish.
stevenaia Michinaga: San walks on water tonight
Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
Santoshima Resident: i go back to what stevenaia wrote a little earlier, perhaps you could comment on it, claire, in relation to transhumanism:
Santoshima Resident: [01:51] stevenaia Michinaga: I do not belive we are wise enough to be choosing what is good or bad, to eliminate what is bad is to miss the point of balance
Claire Maskelyne: That's the thing. I don't think the point of transhumanism is to eliminate what is bad - it's to explore what might be better.
Claire Maskelyne: Exploration implies something more inclusive.
Claire Maskelyne: Cautious, hopefully, but still inclusive.
stevenaia Michinaga: awww nice "tug" in the right direction
Santoshima Resident: sounds good
Santoshima Resident: thanks for clarifying

--BELL--

stevenaia Michinaga: I love when I come here thinking I'll be asleep in no time (it;s 5:00 am) and an interesting conversation breaks out
Santoshima Resident: :) insomniacs unite !
stevenaia Michinaga: power to the sleep-le
Santoshima Resident: ss
Yakuzza Lethecus is excluded from that :P
Santoshima Resident: :)) surely you lose sleep over Pab sometimes, Yaku
Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, usually when i attend the 1pm session on tuesdays
Yakuzza Lethecus: maxines dream workshop
Santoshima Resident: right at the time when you could be dreaming ....
Yakuzza Lethecus: i don´t dream too lucid tho, but might have a lot of sallies and daydreams :P
Santoshima Resident: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: tell us about your sallies
Santoshima Resident: please ...
stevenaia Michinaga: not the stories, per se, but how you see them
Yakuzza Lethecus: well i don´t distinguish between sallies and daydreams too much
Yakuzza Lethecus: so i might just get lost googling on something someone mentioned and see where it goes
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, daydreams are underrated
Santoshima Resident: useful
Yakuzza Lethecus: yesterday a conversation about rotting crops in india somehow made me think later about the spanish tomatina´s
Santoshima Resident: necessary
stevenaia Michinaga: puts you in a place of connectivity
Yakuzza Lethecus: connection is that there if food wasted, but nothing really mentionable, then you might think of how one wuold look like throughing with tomatoes
Yakuzza Lethecus: thinking of "not to play with food"

--BELL--

Yakuzza Lethecus: http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiegel.de%2Fwissenschaft%2Fmensch%2Findien-laesst-millionen-tonnen-getreide-verrotten-a-832714.html
Yakuzza Lethecus: http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiegel.de%2Freise%2Feuropa%2Fspanische-tomatenschlacht-voll-im-saft-a-783679.html
stevenaia Michinaga: thanks Yaku, never mentioned in the states
Santoshima Resident: ty, yaku
Yakuzza Lethecus: article´s like that make one think of expressions of civilization, economy supports to destroy food when it threatens sufficient pricing, thinkig of dissonances in all our so (high developed) countries
stevenaia Michinaga: I think I better go back to bed before the sun come up anymore
stevenaia Michinaga: thank you for joining me
Santoshima Resident: gtsy, stevenaia
Yakuzza Lethecus: but that´s a beautyful sight to see steve :)
stevenaia Michinaga: night Yaku, San, Claire
Yakuzza Lethecus: sleep well steve, hopefully
Santoshima Resident: night everyone
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye everyone
Claire Maskelyne: Good night, everyone ^-^/
Santoshima Resident: bye Yaku
Santoshima Resident: g'night claire