2012.05.07 19:00 - Swimming Ravens and Quantum Sheep

The Guardian for this meeting was Pema Pera. The comments are by Pema Pera.

Pema Pera: hi Eliza!
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Pema :)
Pema Pera: haha, you have changed your name to "???"?
Eliza Madrigal: Is that what shows? :) Not my intention but maybe subtext...
Eliza Madrigal: think just SL glitchiness
Pema Pera: for me, in Phoenix, it says "???(eliza.madrigal)"
Pema Pera: ah, could be, yes
Pema Pera: I wondered whether you were in a pensive or questioning mood today :)
Eliza Madrigal: not a bad tag, really.... people are question marks
Pema Pera: yes!!!
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pema Pera: though some of them try hard to come across as exclamation marks nonetheless . . .
Eliza Madrigal: :) and what is you mood Pema?
Eliza Madrigal: *your
Pema Pera: was just pondering stillness . . .
Pema Pera: hi Bleu!
Pema Pera: that's the topic for this week, right?
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bleu :)
Bleu Oleander: hi Pema, Eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: yes it is... Aphrodite kicked off the discussion yesterday
Pema Pera: did you hear/read/remember any highlights so far?
Eliza Madrigal: mm, well I was really fascinated by the way Agatha linked stillness and wu wei today
Eliza Madrigal: I gave an excerpt from the Tao te Ching which pointed to stillness as 'root' or source
Eliza Madrigal: and she made this connection, which I felt was apt... have thought about that since
Pema Pera: hi Corvi, great to see you again !!!
Eliza Madrigal: Wow, Hi Corvi!
Bleu Oleander: hi Corvi :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire grins and waves. He ya'll.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: *Hey
Corvuscorva Nightfire listens to Eliza's thought
Pema Pera: yes, wu wei as the absence of friction, the absence of unnecessary noise . . .
Pema Pera: hi Santo!
Eliza Madrigal: :) was telling Pema that Agatha linked stillness (a theme this week) and wu wei, at this morning's session 9done :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: ah
Eliza Madrigal: (done)* [no 9] hah
Eliza Madrigal: Hi San
Corvuscorva Nightfire: heehee
Bleu Oleander: hi San :)
Santoshima Resident: greetings everyone
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hullo, San!
Santoshima Resident: hullo
Pema Pera: no-nine eliza . . .
Eliza Madrigal: core of the 9 may be no nine
Eliza Madrigal laughs
Pema Pera: not-doing . . . no-nine . . .
Eliza Madrigal: "not doing 9 seconds" :)
Pema Pera: no suffering no path no shoes no service
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Corvuscorva Nightfire: laughs
Bleu Oleander: :)
Pema Pera: there is a text I like very much that I thought of, when hearing that this week's topics was going to be stillness
Pema Pera: Here are Tilopa's "six words": Let go of what has passed. Let go of what may come. Let go of what is happening now. Don't try to figure anything out. Don't try to make anything happen. Relax, right now, and rest.
Pema Pera: This "rest" for me is like "stillness"
Santoshima Resident: yeah
Eliza Madrigal: wonderful yes
--BELL--
Bleu Oleander: stillness can hold all the potential for being and yet appear as at rest
Pema Pera nods
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: I like reading that text from bottom up... think you suggested that once Pema... has the same sensibility perhaps... like a container...
Pema Pera doesn't remember, but likes the idea :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Santoshima Resident: top, downward ~ bottom upward / inhale and exhale
Santoshima Resident: all the 6 lines happen at once
Pema Pera nods
Pema Pera: no time
Santoshima Resident: mmm
Pema Pera: hi Aph!
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Heya, Aph!
Bleu Oleander: hiya Aph :)
Santoshima Resident: warm greeting, Aph!
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Aphrodite on pogo stick :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Help I cant stop!!
Santoshima Resident: not to worry
Pema Pera: such a bouncy entry :)
Pema Pera: followed by bouncy presence!
Santoshima Resident: :) *** snort
Pema Pera: rest!
Bleu Oleander: not exactly stillness
Pema Pera: accentuating the stillness!
Aphrodite Macbain: ahhhhhh
Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks
Bleu Oleander: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: I am in a state. A really strange person is on my case
Santoshima Resident: what case?
Santoshima Resident: this person
Santoshima Resident: ?
Aphrodite Macbain: A very strange woman whos name sahall be withheld is slandering me
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sitar, welcome again... has been a while, good to see you
Corvuscorva Nightfire: in second life?
Pema Pera: hi Sitar!
Aphrodite Macbain: She is obviously paranoid and has accused me of being in a plot
Santoshima Resident: hi Sitar, welcome
Sitar Ishelwood: hi
Aphrodite Macbain: She is being salked and think I am in on it.!
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi, Sitar.
Sitar Ishelwood: and for the record, i've only heard people say nice things about you and your plot
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bleu Oleander: hi Sitar
Santoshima Resident: what is "salked"?
Aphrodite Macbain: stalked
Santoshima Resident: oh, ty
Aphrodite Macbain: sorry
Santoshima Resident: np
Sitar Ishelwood: and this has something to do with tilpoa?
Aphrodite Macbain: smiles at Sita
Santoshima Resident: typos about everywhere
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: tilpoa?
Pema Pera: we were talking about stilness, Sitar, and Tilopa's "rest" came up
Sitar Ishelwood: i heard there were cute girls talking about stillness here
Santoshima Resident: tilopa
Aphrodite Macbain: oh OK
Aphrodite Macbain: that would be nice
Eliza Madrigal: hahah
Eliza Madrigal: are you familiar with Tilopa, Sitar?
Sitar Ishelwood: i am, i've worked with 'only one sky'
Pema Pera: what does that involve?
Sitar Ishelwood: for the most part, from what i remember
Sitar Ishelwood: it talks about cultivating space inside the mind
Sitar Ishelwood: and then recognizing that it is the same as the big mind
Sitar Ishelwood: the sky in your head is the same as the sky all around
Sitar Ishelwood: so stillness does play a big part
Pema Pera: nice!
Sitar Ishelwood: cause thats where the space is
Eliza Madrigal: interesting, had not heard of 'only one sky' either
Sitar Ishelwood: the version i have is an osho translation
--BELL--
Pema Pera: How are things with you, Corvi
Pema Pera: So nice to see you again!
Eliza Madrigal: it is
Corvuscorva Nightfire: it's nice to see ya'll too!
Corvuscorva Nightfire: things with me are swimmingly good
Corvuscorva Nightfire: How about with you?
Pema Pera: we've had a few unusually active weeks, this last month -- each week with a theme, which was a great idea! I think it was Aph & co who came up with it.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: and what is this week's theme?
Pema Pera meanwhile picturing a swimming raven . . . .
Pema Pera: stillness
Corvuscorva Nightfire grins at the swimming raven, and waves her black wings through the fountains water, creating ripples
Pema Pera: rainbows appearing instantly . . .
Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles
Pema Pera: accentuating the glistening black feathers
Corvuscorva Nightfire flips droplets off her feathers onto Pema.
Pema Pera waiting for the final shaking (if ravens are anything like dogs)
Corvuscorva Nightfire snickers.
Pema Pera ducks
Corvuscorva Nightfire shakes her wings at the ducking figure.
Pema Pera: :-)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: :)
Pema Pera decides to let it all go like water off a duck's back
Bleu Oleander roles eyes :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire giggles.
Aphrodite Macbain: No it wasn't my ida for the particular theme but I spported having a weekly theme we could select from a list
Pema Pera: great idea it was, Aph!
Aphrodite Macbain wipes water of her nose
Pema Pera: it helps to start seriously before getting into different waters :)
Eliza Madrigal: and you got everything rolling by announcing your topics ahead of time
Bleu Oleander tries to remember if swimming ravens was on list
Aphrodite Macbain: I do love the theme of stillness- especially since it is a state I am unable to maintain
Eliza Madrigal: :) ravens tend to shake up plans
Pema Pera pictures a coat of arms with a swimming raven
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Aphrodite Macbain: nevermore
Bleu Oleander: perhaps a t-shirt
Pema Pera: there is a province in Holland with a swimming lion on its coat of arms
Pema Pera: perhaps stillness is impossible to maintain, for anyone . . .
Pema Pera: and the trick might be to not try, but somehow find a way to let stillness take over
Aphrodite Macbain: nods,
Pema Pera: (easier said than not-done :-)
Eliza Madrigal: well I like the parallel to Tilopa's Rest... and thinking still about what San said: [19:18] San (santoshima): top, downward ~ bottom upward / inhale and exhale [19:19] San (santoshima): all the 6 lines happen at once
Aphrodite Macbain: .. at the still point, there the dance is, But neither arrest nor movement. And do not call it fixity, Where past and future are gathered. Neither movement from nor towards, Neither ascent nor decline. Except for the point, the still point, There would be no dance, and there is only the dance. T. S. Eliot, Burnt Norton >
Aphrodite Macbain: I hope you dont mind me quotingf this again.
Aphrodite Macbain: quoting
Pema Pera loves Eliot's poetry
Aphrodite Macbain: .. where pastand future are gathered
Aphrodite Macbain: smiles
Corvuscorva Nightfire: how odd, I was randomly thinking...what if electrons are still, and the appearance of movement is something moving around them?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: and then I read the poem.
--BELL--
Aphrodite Macbain: smiles. Everything is relative. Einstein would like this conversation
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods and grins, and thinks about electrons some more
Eliza Madrigal: "guardians of the void" picture...with raven...can't help but come to mind
Pema Pera: electrons, or any small particle influenced by quantum mechanics, have an interesting relationship to stillness . . .
Corvuscorva Nightfire listens
Pema Pera: yes, I thought about that too, Eliza!
Pema Pera: the more room you give a quantum, the stiller it can get :)
Pema Pera: the less room, the more motion
Corvuscorva Nightfire: heh..how does that work, Pema?
Aphrodite Macbain: why?
Pema Pera: fits with Tilopa's space practice :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: you mean in terms of observation?
Pema Pera: uncertainty principle
Pema Pera: if the place is very certain, the speed is very uncertain
Eliza Madrigal: ah
Pema Pera: so it can't be small then
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods, thoughtfully
Aphrodite Macbain shakes her head in confusion
Pema Pera: giving your quantum sheep a large meadow, and they will be able to graze more quietly :)
Aphrodite Macbain: I thought that was about clustrophobia
Corvuscorva Nightfire: laughs
Pema Pera: :-)
Aphrodite Macbain: :-0
Corvuscorva Nightfire: clustraphobia!
Bleu Oleander: quantum sheep ... swimming ravens ... where am i?
Pema Pera: hehehe
Corvuscorva Nightfire: inna zoo of stillness!
Aphrodite Macbain: want to borrow my pogostick bleu?
Pema Pera: talking about Tilopa's space . . . Sitar, that Tilopa practice reminds me of the little "On Having No Head" book, do you know about that one?
Pema Pera: Douglas Harding was the author: http://www.headless.org/on-having-no-head.htm
Eliza Madrigal: ohhh... remember that Lia was reading this at some point
Eliza Madrigal: maybe Sitar looking for head :)
Bleu Oleander: :)
Sitar Ishelwood: oh was i asked a question? i floated away...
Bleu Oleander: hiya steve :)
Pema Pera: :-)
Aphrodite Macbain: Is there are relationship between one sky and having no head?
stevenaia Michinaga: hi Blue, Corvi, ltns
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Stvenaia
Pema Pera: hi Steve!
Sitar Ishelwood: well, i know that chinnamasta has no head...
stevenaia Michinaga: hi Pema, and everyone
Sitar Ishelwood: and she also represents the consciousness behind ordinary mind
Aphrodite Macbain holds her head betrween her hands and shakes it gently
Santoshima Resident: hello stevenaia ~
Pema Pera: (sounds like an Alfred saying)
Sitar Ishelwood: but im not really familir with the idea of having no head
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pema Pera: it strikes me as similar
Sitar Ishelwood: just the idea that the mind is not actually inside the head
Aphrodite Macbain: sometimes I feel brainless
Sitar Ishelwood: that the physical head is like teabag paper, and the mind flows through like water
Pema Pera: Douglas Harding's notion was to realize that you are not "in your head" because then you would just see brain tissue; your "point of view" is as if there was space right where your head is supposed to be
Pema Pera: ah, back to water again! :-)
Sitar Ishelwood: oohh, trippy
Sitar Ishelwood: so, i have no head, because i cant see it
Aphrodite Macbain: Ummm time to feed my body
Sitar Ishelwood: there is always part of my that i cant see
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye everyone.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: and time for me to sleep
Santoshima Resident: bye Aph, take good care
Eliza Madrigal: I think he said something like 'you've never seen your own face'.. hah, yes.. only secon hand, as it were
Sitar Ishelwood: ciao
Aphrodite Macbain: Dont loose your heads. Please
Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye for now!
Santoshima Resident: 'nite, corvi ~ good to see you
Eliza Madrigal: Night Corvi - thanks for stopping in:) Night Aph :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Glad I came.
Pema Pera: so the difference between third person view and first person view is that in first person view there is empty space in the center -- literally
Pema Pera too late in waving goodbyes :)
Eliza Madrigal: logs capture late goodbyes :)
Bleu Oleander waves to all leaving :)
Santoshima Resident: g'night everybody ~ peace and peace
Eliza Madrigal: Night San
Pema Pera: night Santo!
stevenaia Michinaga: Night San
stevenaia Michinaga: can I clean house or what?
Bleu Oleander: haha
Pema Pera: hehehe
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pema Pera: if you come late enough, you can, yes
Pema Pera: it's all in the timing!
Sitar Ishelwood: so the idea is simply to reside inside the center
stevenaia Michinaga: smiles
Pema Pera: or to realize that that's what you've always been doing
Pema Pera: already
stevenaia Michinaga: is the center where stillness resides?
--BELL--
Pema Pera: perhaps stillness is centerless, ultimately -- stopped by the bell and boxy's Big Red Ribbon; boy, that was an effective addition, getting stillness here every 90 seconds, which often eluded us the first three years we tried :-)
Eliza Madrigal: wrapped in the pause
Sitar Ishelwood: stillness is clearly more pervasive than movement
Pema Pera: it's an interesting question whether there is something beyond the dichotomy of stillness and movement . . .
Pema Pera: and whether that could still be called still :-)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: does seem that looking into stillness reveals a kind of lively dynamic that is hard to describe as still
Pema Pera: nice talking with you, Sitar, and everybody!
Eliza Madrigal: Night Pema :) have a nice day
Pema Pera: c u :)
Bleu Oleander: nite Pema
Eliza Madrigal: hah (funny line)
stevenaia Michinaga: night Pema
Pema Pera: day here :)
Pema Pera: noon to be precise
Eliza Madrigal: yes... hah... have a lovely day... then night...
stevenaia Michinaga: sounds like the perplexing questions someone asked me once.... is where 4 states come together at a point, do opposite corners really touch at the "point" like stillness and movement
Bleu Oleander: so nice lunch then :)
Pema Pera: all in due time :)
Pema Pera: thanks!
stevenaia Michinaga: (I have stange friends asking me strange questions)
Eliza Madrigal: that's what strange friends are for
Bleu Oleander: feel a case of stillness coming on ... take care all ... nice to see you :)
Eliza Madrigal: Bleu are you just returning from NY and wondering what happened to PaB? hahah
Bleu Oleander: yes, exactly
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, K.... be well
Eliza Madrigal: :) welcome back
Bleu Oleander: perhaps a little jet-lagged
stevenaia Michinaga: wb, hope you had a nice time
Eliza Madrigal nods
Bleu Oleander: had a great trip thanks!
stevenaia Michinaga: PaB is also in NY you know
Eliza Madrigal: I feel that way too, but just from trying to follow various threads
Eliza Madrigal laughs
Bleu Oleander: haha
Bleu Oleander: take care
Eliza Madrigal: tc
stevenaia Michinaga: bye bleu
Bleu Oleander: bye bye
stevenaia Michinaga: sounded like an intereting session
stevenaia Michinaga: nice to see Corvi again
Eliza Madrigal: it was... funny rhythms ..
Eliza Madrigal: yes always so nice
Eliza Madrigal: she's a spark
Eliza Madrigal: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: how are you, Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: am rather well thanks
Eliza Madrigal: how are you? seem busier lately
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, may distractions, work and volunteer life
stevenaia Michinaga: all good
Eliza Madrigal: voluntering?
stevenaia Michinaga: they are all like friends
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, the many contributions I make of my time
Eliza Madrigal: if feels worthwhile then in a way it feeds time :) satisfaction
stevenaia Michinaga: various organizations, at times the lists seems endless but never burdensome
Eliza Madrigal: nice
stevenaia Michinaga: if enough people do very little, much gets done
Eliza Madrigal: :) many hands make light work
stevenaia Michinaga: yes
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: good to see you, tc
stevenaia Michinaga: night night
Eliza Madrigal: Night and pleasant sleep