2012.11.05 19:00 - trust like the wealth of a harvest

The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal. The comments are by Eliza Madrigal.

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Pila :)
Pila Mulligan: hi ELiza
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Xs, Luci :)

Xs Andree: ao off
Xs Andree: hi hi!

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: How are we all doing?
Xs Andree: really well, thank you
Pila Mulligan: fine thanks ELiza
Lucinda Lavender: I have a cold with cough and it is a concert week...not complaining exactly
Eliza Madrigal: aw... Luci you have great qualifiers
Pila Mulligan: but not feeling top shape too, it seems
Pila Mulligan recommends Gan Mao Ling (Chinese herbal tablet)
Eliza Madrigal: hopefully you have slept through the travels of the last few days :)
Lucinda Lavender: intresting!

Eliza Madrigal: Ah, Pila... I am seeing an acupunturist now... learning lots
Eliza Madrigal: and taking herbs, though I have no idea what they are
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pila Mulligan: I bet they may have some, ELiza
Pila Mulligan: Chinese herbs are quite efficacious, usually
Eliza Madrigal: I find the ear map so interesting.... had never seen the pattern of the baby before




Pila Mulligan: hi Paradise
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Paradise :)
Xs Andree: I'm very happy to see you again, Para!
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Paradise Tennant: smiles and waves all around



Eliza Madrigal: so we have no official topic this week
Eliza Madrigal: we're off-road. what shall be our adventure?

Lucinda Lavender: I have had one in my mind...
Eliza Madrigal: great!
Paradise Tennant: woooot love a good off road adventure :)
Eliza Madrigal: heheh
Lucinda Lavender: since attending a talk at the buddhist temple
Lucinda Lavender: we could keep it short...and move on to something else
Eliza Madrigal: Oh would love to hear Luci
Paradise Tennant: smiles and listens :)))))
Xs Andree: yer killing me with suspense, luci..what is it!
Pila Mulligan: ;)
Lucinda Lavender: well let me tell you about this topic...it was anger
Xs Andree: :P
Eliza Madrigal: ah...
Lucinda Lavender: and interestingly...the image was put forth of the mind being a clear blue sky
Lucinda Lavender: and feelings as clouds/weather
Lucinda Lavender: which blow through
Eliza Madrigal: "weather" ...nods
Pila Mulligan: :) nice
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Eos, I'll give you a note of the discussion so far
Pila Mulligan: hi Eos
Lucinda Lavender: this way of looking was interesting to me because it seemed to suggest that feelings are not exactly real
Paradise Tennant: smiles hiya eos gtsy ;)
Xs Andree grins
Eos Amaterasu: Hi playful beings
Paradise Tennant: feels cloudy :))
Lucinda Lavender: and that we can look at the people who challenge our view say through criticizm as our teachers
Xs Andree: Hello Eos, very good to see you today.
Paradise Tennant: insubstantial :)
Pila Mulligan: numinous
Lucinda Lavender: well I can see that feelings dissipate
Paradise Tennant: luminous :)
Pila Mulligan: :)
Lucinda Lavender: they melt
Pila Mulligan: hi Steve
Lucinda Lavender: or evaporate
Paradise Tennant: and the stev rainbow just arrived :)

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Stevie, did you receive the note or did it get lost in your dress?
Pila Mulligan: [19:06] Lucinda Lavender: and interestingly...the image was put forth of the mind being a clear blue sky [19:06] Lucinda Lavender: and feelings as clouds/weather [19:06] Lucinda Lavender: which blow through

Lucinda Lavender: just wanted to say that this was the teaching from sunday and I was able to use it for my own self yet not sure what I believe
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sakito, welcome
Paradise Tennant: or potentially a large bubble bath bubble :))
Eos Amaterasu: (thnx Eliza)
Eliza Madrigal: I'll IM you about the group if you like to join us
Paradise Tennant: hiya sakito :))
Pila Mulligan: hi Sakito
Xs Andree: I like it, And Sakito has been with me here a few times.
Lucinda Lavender: that is all
Xs Andree waves to Saki and Stevenaia excitedly
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, okay ^^, so aware of larger viewership via posted logs
Eos Amaterasu: hi Saki

Paradise Tennant: love the metaphor luci .. emotions as just ripples of weather and no more substantial than clouds
stevenaia Michinaga: sorry distracted greetings all
Lucinda Lavender: we needn't go into detail about it just wanted to say that clarity seemes to come from familiarity and understanding

Eliza Madrigal: Lucinda, how did you find it helpful to see emotions that way?
Lucinda Lavender: I have had a few person issues where I am able to get very angry
Lucinda Lavender: and I am learning that there is through familiarity with the topic the fact that it is bound to come up
Lucinda Lavender: everyday is full of possible difficulty
Eos Amaterasu: anger potion #9
Lucinda Lavender: and our expectation that there should be little is not really practical
Eliza Madrigal nods
Paradise Tennant: yes
Xs Andree nods nods

Lucinda Lavender: anyway learning through familiarity with a topic is kind of interesting
Lucinda Lavender: maybe more acceptance, partience
Paradise Tennant: human communication is fraught with the peril of missing .. we just miss what the other person really intends to say really means ..really thinks
Lucinda Lavender: patience
Lucinda Lavender: :)
Lucinda Lavender: done
Paradise Tennant: smiles at luci yes :))
Eliza Madrigal: nodding...

Xs Andree: I was writing to a few friends last night, and something important I wanted to tell them, may i share it? it is brief.
Paradise Tennant: Thomas Beckett's famous quote the reward of patience is patience .. it is the gold of a peaceful mind
Lucinda Lavender: happy to go on to other roaeds if you wish
Eliza Madrigal: no this is beautiful and timely
Pila Mulligan: :)
Eliza Madrigal: thank you Luci, and of course Xs

--BELL--

Paradise Tennant: the suv swings round and the xs shifts gears :)))
Xs Andree: People ask often about the definition of love, or try to capture its meaning. The best definition for love i've found comes in three steps, and three words.

Xs Andree: Acceptance
Xs Andree: Acknowledgement
Xs Andree: Appreciation

Xs Andree: Acceptance is without condition. I accept who you are, and that you are what you are

Xs Andree: Acknowledgement that you exist. That you have an impact. You leave a mark upon the world.

Xs Andree: Appreciation for who you are, that you have worth, that who you are has worth, that you are is of worth.

Xs Andree: I see you, you are here, I love you.

Xs Andree: ((end))
stevenaia Michinaga: :) claps
Eliza Madrigal: thank you Xs!
Paradise Tennant: smiles just lovely thank you xs :)
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Eliza Madrigal: the points you made almost imply differences but absorb them in acknowledgement
Lucinda Lavender: :))
Xs Andree: Paraphrased from something I heard years ago
Eos Amaterasu: very PaBy
Xs Andree: You all remind me of these three, even when things are stormy.
Eos Amaterasu: (!)
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Eliza Madrigal: there is a lot of affection in this group
Paradise Tennant: gorup hugs :))
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: (:)
Paradise Tennant: lol how about group hugs :)
stevenaia Michinaga: often there are talk of love here
Xs Andree: *group hugs*
Sakito Nakamichi: I really liked that, lovely.

Lucinda Lavender: do you think that feelings are delusions? that is the interesting idea...

Eos Amaterasu:

acceptance :: space acknowledgment :: precision appreciation :: appreciation :-)

Eos Amaterasu: love
Eos Amaterasu: & seeing clearly
Eos Amaterasu: & space

Pila Mulligan: Luci, I think feelings are geunine usually
Pila Mulligan: they can be prompted by illusions tho
stevenaia Michinaga: Reality is the illusion
Lucinda Lavender: but against a background of acceptance/space then less painful?
stevenaia Michinaga: feeling are yours , reality is shared
Pila Mulligan: pain is genuine also

Xs Andree: I think some are more complex, storms are complex, their conditions arise from things which happen over great time, they build and release...but the thunder and lightning, strong winds, hail and rain are not bad things of themselves.

Sakito Nakamichi: Feelings... can be manufactured, if you're willing to stuff other things, and put the effort of focus behind it, but it's not something the average person does or can do very often, or even knows OF really.
Xs Andree: But , like Lucinda says...they don't last long, and they are not us, just part of what happens to us.
Sakito Nakamichi: A mask with no straps does not conceal the face beneath.

Eos Amaterasu: does that relate to the open sky you were talking of, Luci?
Lucinda Lavender: I think so...
Eos Amaterasu: the scariest mask is the one with no face beneath :-)
Lucinda Lavender: becoming familiar with what triggers pain...could assist one in acceptance/space I guess

Sakito Nakamichi: That is what you become if you spend enough time perfecting the art - the mask you wear. Unless you have the surety of a surgeon with an emotional scalpel.
Eos Amaterasu: getting friendly with the pattern
Lucinda Lavender: :))
Lucinda Lavender: yes
Eos Amaterasu: dangerous high wire, Saki

Lucinda Lavender: so it is not like the pain is not real
Eos Amaterasu: no
Eos Amaterasu: but it is free of some extras

Sakito Nakamichi grins delightedly and nods. "Yes, very much so."
Xs Andree: I love you, Saki.
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Eos Amaterasu: :-) :-)
Sakito Nakamichi: Unfortunate though, you can't create a real osmosis. It's always... off.
Eliza Madrigal: players only love you when they're playing...? (sorry diversion)
Sakito Nakamichi: lawl
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Sakito Nakamichi: Yep.

Eliza Madrigal: enjoying the weather metaphors :)
Eos Amaterasu ponders 'real osmosis'....
Sakito Nakamichi: If you are the puppeteer, but the puppet is the only speaker, then who is it?
Lucinda Lavender: the delusion may be that we think pain is not part of the picture
Eos Amaterasu feels like an amoeba
Eliza Madrigal: Luci that is such a good point....
Eliza Madrigal: it isn't easy to let it be part of things
Xs Andree: i think, if you can love your role, you can become it, and in becoming it, discover you are more than what you once knew.
Sakito Nakamichi lays down and putting his head in Xs' lap.
Eliza Madrigal: :)

--BELL--

Xs Andree: i think that is the hardest part of balance, realizing those things we once wished to escape because they were so heavy in our lives...
Xs Andree: are not things to eradicate from our lives...simply put into balance.

Pila Mulligan: a surprisingly great variety of pains can be resolved by breathing
Xs Andree nods nods!
Eos Amaterasu: (like lack of life :-)
Lucinda Lavender: haha!

Xs Andree: I've heard that as well, that many of us have forgotten how to breathe in life.
Eliza Madrigal: the thing about anger is it can feel like a speeding train... breathing perhaps slows that down to see separate components
Pila Mulligan: yes, and anger can be a rut
Xs Andree slips her mannequin fingers along Sakito's ear

Eos Amaterasu: the first flash of anger is pretty choiceless, and probably points with some accuracy, but then it gets decorated
Eos Amaterasu: and story-lined
Lucinda Lavender: pictures that run through the mind attach to it
Pila Mulligan: and confirmation biased
Pila Mulligan: or is it affrimation?
Eliza Madrigal nods
Pila Mulligan: :)

Eos Amaterasu: we emotionally crucify ourselves with story lines
Eos Amaterasu: ugh - you can feel that very personally!
Sakito Nakamichi: Daily, in sleep, until dawn

Eliza Madrigal: and what of stories- some stories beg to be told perhaps...
Eos Amaterasu: that is then art!
Lucinda Lavender: yes the flash then sort can inform you
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: lightning rod

Xs Andree: Those who must learn, suffer, and pain they cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, until in despair and against their own will, comes wisdom by the awful grace of god. -Aeschylus (sp?)
Eos Amaterasu: can you say more about stories begging to be told?
Eliza Madrigal: I find that in family dynamics, if there are things that aren't talked about, one person may carry them
Lucinda Lavender: I slapped 5 friend faces in one blow once
Eos Amaterasu: in RL?
Eliza Madrigal: and not just their own stories but others
Eliza Madrigal: what Luci?!
Lucinda Lavender: they were teasing me yes
Eliza Madrigal: wow.. aw
Paradise Tennant: wow luci !
Paradise Tennant: bet there were five surprised faces :)
Lucinda Lavender: and I was acting like the parent and admonishing them for running around the neighborhood in the dark
Eos Amaterasu: wow
Lucinda Lavender: they said a few things and I hauled off and slapped

Lucinda Lavender: anger is scary to me I guess
Lucinda Lavender: after that

Eliza Madrigal: speeding train...
Lucinda Lavender: I was about 11
Eliza Madrigal: well you didn't know how to drive yet
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Lucinda Lavender: :))

Eos Amaterasu: hmm, very powerful
Eos Amaterasu: maybe that's something to meet,...

Lucinda Lavender: I did not want to lose them I bet
Eos Amaterasu: say hello, get friendly
Lucinda Lavender: with saying what one really wants to say at the heart
Eos Amaterasu: and how I hold what I really want to say cannot say

Eliza Madrigal: when preschoolers do this we say "use your words"
Lucinda Lavender: right:))
Eliza Madrigal: that if they can begin to articulate and be heard, feel that they have articulated and have been acknowledged
Eos Amaterasu: maybe what needs to be said is too big for the room
Eliza Madrigal: then there is some trust in the situations, others but also themselves
Eliza Madrigal: hm... overspilling our masks....

Eos Amaterasu: it's nice when there is that trust
Pila Mulligan: cinq d'un coup, formidable :)
Eos Amaterasu: "the one" - not a note, not a beat.... a space
Lucinda Lavender: yes if you have trust it really helps it not escalate
Xs Andree: I don't like to depend on trust.
Lucinda Lavender: good point
Eos Amaterasu: no expectations
Lucinda Lavender: good point xs

Eliza Madrigal: my question is, can an environment be made for trust
Pila Mulligan: sure

--BELL--

Sakito Nakamichi: How so? How can something like that be formed around different people, yet affecting them equally?
Xs Andree: i think so...I like to think of trust as...like...the wealth of a harvest, they are the gifts from cultivating fields rightly that can last you through the winter.

Paradise Tennant: smiles and wihispers thank you everyone for the company, the conversation and the great thoughts to ponder under a dark sky tonight while I walk the dog :))
Pila Mulligan: bye Paaradise
Eliza Madrigal: :) Night Paradise
Eos Amaterasu: ciao Para
Xs Andree hugs Para
Eos Amaterasu: trust like the wealth of a harvest
Paradise Tennant: namaste my friends :))))
Xs Andree: Namaste!
Eos Amaterasu: some kind of tacit bubble we breathe together
Xs Andree: i like that Eos
Eliza Madrigal considering

Xs Andree: A recognition we are in this together.
Eos Amaterasu: sharing an unknown or choiceless quality
Eos Amaterasu: but sometimes it seems shattered

Eliza Madrigal: sure foundation of the sinking ship?
Eos Amaterasu: can you say more, E? :-)
Pila Mulligan: did your neighborhood get much of the big storm, Eos
Pila Mulligan: oops, belay that question
Lucinda Lavender: the quality of what unfolds? or something less tangible
Eliza Madrigal: acceptance, and as Luci said... some acknowledgement that there will be disappointment

Xs Andree: i had to say goodbye to my oldest son when he was very young. While his father and i did not agree or get along anymore, and our trust had been broken...
Xs Andree: I still trusted he would take care of our son, and he did not break that trust.
Eliza Madrigal: how difficult Xs
Xs Andree: It was difficult for me to do, when i trusted nothing else about him.
Pila Mulligan: maybe you trusted fate

Xs Andree: In the end, we were both lied to and manipulated.
Xs Andree: i did that too...but, i cannot argue, I trusted him as well.
Eliza Madrigal: what was that based on, do you think? need? history? gut feelings? calculation?
Xs Andree: I was more horrified that he thought i was a danger to our son, but he didn't think that at all, someone else made me think he did, though.
Xs Andree: It made me wonder if there wasn't something very wrong with me.
Eliza Madrigal: you didn't trust yourself ... my goodness
Pila Mulligan: some people get their kicks by manipulation
Xs Andree smiles

Pila Mulligan: usually people unable to control themselves, so they try to project control over others

Xs Andree: That is okay...17 years later, it came out in the open, i got to see my son graduate, and i'm very proud of who he is, he's very much like both of us.
Sakito Nakamichi giggles. "I do that some. Try to control my surroundings.
Pila Mulligan: :)
Eliza Madrigal: well that is the 'dissociative' argument, in SL
Eliza Madrigal: Congratulations Xs :)
Xs Andree: and who this other girl is? i have no idea where she is, nor do i care. She failed whatever she was trying to do.
Xs Andree: thank you
Eliza Madrigal: Saki I relate to that - I know that I am easily influenced in some ways so I am careful about environment sometimes... over time at least

Lucinda Lavender: can you describe again the dissociative argument again?
Xs Andree: Yes, i'm curious as well.
Lucinda Lavender: in more words?
Sakito Nakamichi: Me three~
Eliza Madrigal: well a dissociative is more in a gaming mentality
Eliza Madrigal: so control of another would be sport...
Eliza Madrigal: I don't think that's what Saki meant though... nor did I...
Eliza Madrigal: but there may be a parallel to attending to environment rather than doing things directly

Lucinda Lavender: one is one step removed
Eliza Madrigal: or more, indeed
Lucinda Lavender: and pulled into another place
Eliza Madrigal: or with layers between... perhaps people
Xs Andree: I've noticed this as well, like the two different types of Trolling
Eliza Madrigal: for some it could be the parent they never pleased
Eliza Madrigal: in the middle of everything :)
Eliza Madrigal: :) I'm sleepy hope not rambling
Xs Andree: one to tend one's garden, to...trick the weeds free from the soil without pulling up the good plants
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Xs Andree: and some just like to con others

--BELL--

Pila Mulligan slips away, singing quietly, love your brothers and sisters and love will come back to you
Eliza Madrigal: Night Pila
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Eos Amaterasu: bye,... going myself, thanks all
stevenaia Michinaga: night Pila, Eliza
Xs Andree: you look wonderful today, Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Lovely to be with you all tonight
Xs Andree: Red suits you very well
Lucinda Lavender: night to all:)
Xs Andree: ....you remind me..of kharma
Xs Andree: ㋡
Eliza Madrigal: thanks ^.^ - was a red sort of day....
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Lucinda Lavender: yes! namaste
Eliza Madrigal: Namaste'
Eliza Madrigal: pleasure to meet you Saki
Eliza Madrigal: see you again
Eliza Madrigal: bye for now
Sakito Nakamichi: Hai~ Oyasumi nasai.
Xs Andree: Namaste
Eliza Madrigal: ^^
stevenaia Michinaga: Eliza's dress is so pretty, I had to get up to show mine :)

stevenaia Michinaga: Xs, do you not accept friendships?
Xs Andree: ido, we aren't friends already?
Xs Andree: OH, there it came in
stevenaia Michinaga: smiles
Xs Andree: I had the same problem earlier with Fc
stevenaia Michinaga: nice meeting you Sakito
Xs Andree: his request never got to me, so I offered to him
stevenaia Michinaga: give her my love when you see her next, she is out of sync with me atm
Sakito Nakamichi: Hajimemashite, pleasure to meet you.
stevenaia Michinaga: fc, oh him, sorry
Sakito Nakamichi: I'm gonna have to steal that terminology~ "Out of sync with me" an elegant way to explain it.
stevenaia Michinaga: hard to tell depending on the form
stevenaia Michinaga: on the other side of the world, well 8 or so hours away
Xs Andree: i will, Stevenaia, thank you
Xs Andree beams

Xs Andree: i'm very happy today.
Xs Andree: I thought this might have turned out very differently
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, an extrordinary day, tomorrow will repeat I hopes

Xs Andree: i hope i actually get to vote tomorrow, lol
stevenaia Michinaga: (election day)

stevenaia Michinaga: why wouldn;t you? no power
stevenaia Michinaga: live in FLorida?

stevenaia Michinaga: I better sleep so I can vote early
stevenaia Michinaga: night
Xs Andree: night
Xs Andree: lol no, just missed early voting today, don't want to miss it tomorrow
Xs Andree: ao on