2012.11.25 07:00 - Just a Process

The Guardian for this meeting was Bleu Oleander. The photos and comments are by Bleu Oleander.

while sitting in the dark, was happy to see Zon and later Zen arrive for conversation .....

Zon Kwan: hi bleu
Bleu Oleander: hi Zon :)
Zon Kwan: how are you today ?
Bleu Oleander: great, u?
Zon Kwan: good
Zon Kwan: quiet here ?
Bleu Oleander: quiet morning here yes
Bleu Oleander: what brings you here?
Zon Kwan: hm
Zon Kwan: i always come when i have time
Bleu Oleander: that's nice, me too
Zon Kwan: is this your session ?
Bleu Oleander: how long have you been coming to PaB?
Bleu Oleander: yes
Zon Kwan: hm..long
Zon Kwan: dont even remember
Bleu Oleander: :)
Zon Kwan: years
Bleu Oleander: for me too
Zon Kwan: good place to come to think
Bleu Oleander: where are you in the world?
Zon Kwan: and chat
Bleu Oleander: yes
Zon Kwan: and to clean inventory
Bleu Oleander: ha! yes need to do that :)
Zon Kwan: have you been in those rl sessions ?
Bleu Oleander: PaB in RL? no
Bleu Oleander: have you?
Zon Kwan: no
Bleu Oleander: tempting to go
Zon Kwan: must be nice though
Bleu Oleander: yes
Zon Kwan: mostly university people ?
Bleu Oleander: hmmm
Bleu Oleander: not sure
Zon Kwan: many that i have met are
Zon Kwan: you are not ?
Bleu Oleander: no
Zon Kwan: me neither
Zon Kwan: thx :)
Bleu Oleander: yw!
Bleu Oleander: ty!
Bleu Oleander: what are your interests in sl?
Zon Kwan: mind
Bleu Oleander: as in your own?
Bleu Oleander: what aspects?
Zon Kwan: all
Zon Kwan: lol
Bleu Oleander: :)
Bleu Oleander: do you enjoy reading about that subject?
Zon Kwan: oh yes
Zon Kwan: and in sl you can do much more
Bleu Oleander: what are some of your favorite books?
Zon Kwan: i love alan watts
Bleu Oleander: ah ok, haven't read any of his
Zon Kwan: have your heard his talks ?
Zon Kwan: you can find on web
Bleu Oleander: yes

--BELL--
Bleu Oleander: i'll check it out
Zon Kwan: he was one of the first who made indian philosophies and buddhims and zen to west in understadable way
Bleu Oleander: what are some of his main ideas?
Bleu Oleander: what does he say about mind?
Zon Kwan: i think he is into zen
Bleu Oleander: you also?
Zon Kwan: zen is purest
Zon Kwan: but to understand it
Zon Kwan: one needs to understand other religions and philosophies
Zon Kwan: i like how he is playful
Bleu Oleander: good subjects to investigate
Zon Kwan: not serious at all
Zon Kwan: and still goes deeper
Zon Kwan: than most
Zon Kwan: what about you ?
Bleu Oleander: I haven't investigated any zen philosophies very much
Bleu Oleander: but seems interesting
Bleu Oleander: i'll listen to some of his talks
Zon Kwan: what are your interests in sl ?
Bleu Oleander: I like to build and create art in sl
Bleu Oleander: I like making machinimas also
Zon Kwan: machinimas ?
Bleu Oleander: videos made with computers in virtual worlds
Zon Kwan: wow
Zon Kwan: i cant do any of those
Bleu Oleander: http://www.youtube.com/user/BleuOleander?feature=mhee
Bleu Oleander: for later :)
Zon Kwan: makes a note
Bleu Oleander: :)
Zon Kwan: zen !
Zen Arado: Hi Bleu, Zon
Zon Kwan: we were just talking of you

Bleu Oleander: hiya Zen :)
Bleu Oleander: ha!
Zen Arado: heh
Zon Kwan: how is your day ?
Bleu Oleander: we were talking about Alan Watts
Zen Arado: ah yes
Zen Arado: I like his books
Zon Kwan: ahe is best at tapes
Bleu Oleander: i'm not that familiar with him
Bleu Oleander: but will listen to his talks
Zon Kwan: fantastic leturer
Zen Arado: 'The Wisdom of Insecurity' is a great little book
Zen Arado: he was a character
Zen Arado: a bit wild
Bleu Oleander: is there anything you don't like about what he says?
Zon Kwan: and also "The Book"
Zen Arado: yes..just read that
Zen Arado: and I am reading 'The Watercourse way'
Zen Arado: on Taoism
Zen Arado: he was very clever
Zon Kwan: yes
Zon Kwan: hits the nail in the head
Zen Arado: started off as an Englis minister in Christianity
Bleu Oleander: nail?
Zon Kwan: just a phrase..lol
Zen Arado: an idiom lol
Bleu Oleander: yes
Zon Kwan: sees the core
Zen Arado: hit a nail on the head
Bleu Oleander: core of Taoism?
Zen Arado: right on the matk
Bleu Oleander: of what?
Zen Arado: I haven'r got farwith it
Zen Arado: trying to read too many books at the same time as usual
Zon Kwan: lol
Bleu Oleander: me too haha!
Bleu Oleander: bad habit
Zon Kwan: my bad habit also
Zen Arado: it starts slowly about Chinese language
Zen Arado: how we should be using chnesde ideograms
Bleu Oleander: why?
Zen Arado: they convey so much information so succinctly
Zon Kwan: nods
Bleu Oleander: interesting

--BELL--
Zen Arado: actually normal language has two stages
Zen Arado: it is written down sounds
Zen Arado: whereas Chinese ideograms are pictorial only
Zon Kwan: interesting
Bleu Oleander: words and letters are pictures too in a sense
Zen Arado: yes but our language originated in sounds
Bleu Oleander: didn't all language?
Zen Arado: so we then have to represent sounds in writing
Zen Arado: apparently Chinese didn't
Zon Kwan: never thot that
Bleu Oleander: they represent sounds with pictures?
Zen Arado: I'll see if I can find that in the book
Bleu Oleander: interesting, i'll check out his talks on line
Zon Kwan: sounds can be symbols
Zon Kwan: like pictures
Zon Kwan: or words
Bleu Oleander: its all about conveying meaning from one mind to the next
Zon Kwan: thinks so
Zon Kwan: why else
Zen Arado: 'The ear cannot detect as many variables at the same time as the eye, for sound is a slower vibration than light. Alphabetic writing is a representation of sound, whereas the ideogram represents vision and, furthermore, represents the world directly—not being a sign for a sound which is the name of a thing. As for names, the sound “bird” has nothing in it that reminds one of a bird, and for some reason it would strike us as childish to substitute more direct names, such as tweetie, powee, or quark. Watts, Alan (2010-11-20). Tao: The Watercourse Way (Kindle Locations 435-439). Perseus Books Group. Kindle Edition.
Zen Arado: he also talks about how European languages structure our thought patterns
Bleu Oleander: I think all language does that
Zen Arado: 'The supposition that knowing requires a knower is based on a linguistic and not an existential rule, as becomes obvious when we consider that raining needs no rainer and clouding no clouder. Thus when a Chinese receives a formal invitation, he may reply simply with the word “Know Watts, Alan (2010-11-20). Tao: The Watercourse Way (Kindle Locations 397-399). Perseus Books Group. Kindle Edition.
Zon Kwan: nods
Zon Kwan: "me" "doing"
Zon Kwan: although it just happens
Zen Arado: yes
Bleu Oleander: knowing is a process, raining is a process
Zen Arado: this is all a prelude to the Tao because it was writtten in Chinese
Bleu Oleander: ah so depends also on translations of course
Zen Arado: our language structures us into splitting reality into subjects and objects
Zen Arado: a sort of unconscious conditioning
Bleu Oleander: so if we don't think in Chinese can we really "know" what is being said?
Zon Kwan: he has a nice way to put it: how can a noun (me) start a process (verb: doing)
Zen Arado: don't know but it helps of we are aware of that conditioning I think
Bleu Oleander: me is a noun in a language sense but a symbol for what "I" call myself
Zen Arado: it's all verbing in a sense
Bleu Oleander: the construction of "I" or "me" is a process too
Zen Arado: lots of authors mention this
Zen Arado: it's useful
Zen Arado: but creates a false impression
Zon Kwan: yes but in sentence you have usually someone who does something

Zen Arado: and it's all just a process
Zon Kwan: thats the way lagueage conditions thinking
Bleu Oleander: "just a process" ... pretty amazing if you really think about it

Zon Kwan: hehehe
Zen Arado: seeing is a process that needs three things

--BELL--
Bleu Oleander: seeing is a very complex process, turning the raw sense information entering our eyes and turning it into something meaningful ... seeing with the mind :)
Bleu Oleander: well I must go
Bleu Oleander: thank you both for an interesting conversation
Zen Arado: that is the scientific explanation
Bleu Oleander: a lot to think about today
Bleu Oleander: take care
Zen Arado: kk
Bleu Oleander: have a great day
Zen Arado: byee Bleu and Zon :)
Zen Arado: you too
Bleu Oleander: bye Zen and Zon :)