2013.02.24 07:00 - just love

The Guardian for this meeting was Bleu Oleander. The comments are by Bleu Oleander.

Catrinamonblue Resident: 's current display-name is "Catrinamonblue".
Bleu Oleander: 's current display-name is "Bleu".
Bleu Oleander: hi Cat :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Bleu just admiring you :) you look beautiful
Bleu Oleander: ty!
Bleu Oleander: Xirana designed this logo for the PaB party
Bleu Oleander: made a balloon and t-shirt too
Catrinamonblue Resident: lovely!! :)
Bleu Oleander: I really love it!
Bleu Oleander: she is soooo talented
Catrinamonblue Resident: yes
Bleu Oleander: new look for you .... zooming in :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: had fun yesterday :)
Bleu Oleander: very pretty ... for spring :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: yes :)
Bleu Oleander: hiya druth :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Druth :)
druth Vlodovic: hey
Bleu Oleander: how are you both this morning?
Catrinamonblue Resident: doing well and you?
Bleu Oleander: great thanks
--BELL--

Catrinamonblue Resident: have a sugar cookie candle burning and it smells wonderful :)
Bleu Oleander: nice :)
Bleu Oleander: hiya Louis
Catrinamonblue Resident: hello Louis
Bleu Oleander: any ideas for a topic this morning?
Catrinamonblue Resident: Cat is fine :)

Bleu Oleander: :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: Good morning Eliza :)
Bleu Oleander: hi Eliza :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
--BELL--

for some reason this next session was left out of the log ... it's the section that mentions the topic suggestion from Louis . . .

log resumes here . . .

Zon Kwan: heya
Catrinamonblue Resident: first love is very exciting, intense, feelings are that the future looks bright, perfect, rose coloured glasses, this other person completes me, looking for something missing finally found.
Bleu Oleander: and yet much more will be revealed
Bleu Oleander: yes
Catrinamonblue Resident: fist love fades as reality sets in and we find no one is perfect and the future is hard work
Bleu Oleander: :)
Bleu Oleander: one might flip that and say everyone is perfect and the future is open?
Bleu Oleander: so rose colored glasses effect?
Louis Onyett: This may remain true for many many years, even
Catrinamonblue Resident: yes
Eliza Madrigal nods
druth Vlodovic: perhaps that is one reason love should be celebrated so much
druth Vlodovic: many obstacles vanish when the attempt is made to blow them away
Catrinamonblue Resident: ah but the attempt must be made and that can be hard to do
Bleu Oleander: easier to do when infatuated perhaps?
Catrinamonblue Resident: we sometimes get into a rut of existence
Catrinamonblue Resident: work, house, kids,
Louis Onyett: Hard to keep love's fire burning with all the details of life sometimes
Eliza Madrigal: babies or shared projects change the nature of a relationship but introduce something else that is precious and also revealing
Bleu Oleander: yes
Catrinamonblue Resident: nods
Louis Onyett: A shared joy that is very deep between parents but rarely voiced
Eliza Madrigal: challenges have a way of showing sides of us we'd rather keep hidden but then become a shared secret :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: sometimes it is the one thing that keeps a relationship together when two people have drifted apart
Louis Onyett: Perhaps "I love you and your children" would be a smart thing to say more often.
Bleu Oleander: so what about keeping an eye on one's self through this process ... to not get lost in a way?
Louis Onyett: Even if those kids can be rascally sometimes. :)
Bleu Oleander: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Oh Bleu... it may be impossible
Bleu Oleander: hehe
Louis Onyett: L:ost or just transformed for the better?
Catrinamonblue Resident: sometimes I htink we are all lost to begin with and are only here to find ourselves
Zon Kwan: are you talking of marriage ?
Bleu Oleander: the stages of love
Zon Kwan: hm
Eliza Madrigal: well a marriage is a form
Zon Kwan: forms of love
Bleu Oleander: a social construct
Louis Onyett: True, we haven't explored some of the other types of relationships that include love.
Bleu Oleander: big topic
Louis Onyett: I don't think chocolate is included. Cause that love has never changed for me.
Louis Onyett: hehe
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Bleu Oleander: any truth to love yourself before you can love others?
Zon Kwan: do we want to be in love
Catrinamonblue Resident: yes Bleu I think there is
Eliza Madrigal: a marriage may pass away and yet hopefully the work and the time and memories may remain precious for what they were/are
druth Vlodovic: no, but it is a good idea
Louis Onyett: Zon has a provacative question: Do we even need/want love?
Zon Kwan: and why
Catrinamonblue Resident: attachment is part of the human condition
Eliza Madrigal: I don't know Bleu... how can we love ourselves without the deep love relationships with others that reveal us to ourselves?
Bleu Oleander: yes
Zon Kwan: attachment is a sin to budhists
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Bleu Oleander: "only connect"
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Zon Kwan: do we need others so we can love ourselves ?
Bleu Oleander: people who need people ....
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Catrinamonblue Resident: others to mirror ourselves back to us?
Zon Kwan: will suffer
Eliza Madrigal: dance of life.... think we can't avoid it and live fully
Zon Kwan: dance is not attachment
Bleu Oleander: sorry, sounding like a fortune cookie this morning :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
druth Vlodovic: isn't lack of attachment a different kind of suffering?
--BELL--

Catrinamonblue Resident: can you explain bit Zon
Zon Kwan: nope
Zon Kwan: love is often felt as a need for other to give us something we lack
Eliza Madrigal: thanks Druth, you articulated what I was considering - purposefully avoiding attachment does seem a lot of work :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: maybe at first yes, but as love matures I think it becomes something else
Eliza Madrigal: ah that's a subtle difference
Eliza Madrigal listens
druth Vlodovic: love is care for another, not really a need, though it does generate needs
Louis Onyett: Concur. Loving others out of just that-wanting to help others-is a good thing.
Zon Kwan: if love is careing,,its not attachment
druth Vlodovic: lol, it is very much attachment
Catrinamonblue Resident: what is attachment then?
Bleu Oleander: so perhaps dif concepts of love?
Eliza Madrigal: and of attachment
Bleu Oleander: yes
Louis Onyett: One might enjoy helping their offspring more than not.
Zon Kwan: attachment is something i need for myself
Zon Kwan: love is opposite
Bleu Oleander: attachment is something i'm attached to ... :)
druth Vlodovic: love is a base, from there we add factors and make it different kinds of love, for siblings, for children, for spouses, for humanity,
Eliza Madrigal: I love when someone is attached to me while still able to hear me/see me anew - that feels amazing
Louis Onyett: And losing love could be painful, very. Would have to work hard to make it a useful experience
Bleu Oleander: yes Eliza :)
druth Vlodovic: if there were no attachment in love it wouldn't hurt to lose it
Bleu Oleander: so some attachment is good then?
Catrinamonblue Resident: I think so
Zon Kwan: nods
druth Vlodovic: it is a merging of care, you seek what will be good for the other
Zon Kwan: thats possession, not love
Xirana Oximoxi: 's current display-name is "Xirana".
Catrinamonblue Resident: how is that possession?
druth Vlodovic: possession isn't love, but a corruption of a base feeling my a lack of self-worth
Bleu Oleander: love fades, to quote Woody Allen
Zon Kwan: if it hurts me to loose someone
Bleu Oleander: hiya Xiri :)
Louis Onyett: So is this a discussion of how love changes over time or about the definition of love?
Eliza Madrigal: there are things that seem "right on paper" about love and then there is the actual looking into the experience... passion without possession? possible?
druth Vlodovic: "by a lack of self-worth" and the fear that comes with it
Xirana Oximoxi: hello everyone! :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Xiri :)
Zon Kwan: hi xiri
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Xiri
Louis Onyett: Hello X
Bleu Oleander: I love your design Xiri :) ty!
Zon Kwan: passion is not love
Xirana Oximoxi: yw:)
druth Vlodovic: letting go is an acknowledgement that what is best for the other is space and life, as when we allow our kids to enter the world
druth Vlodovic: is it love to send someone into danger?
Eliza Madrigal: seeing/accepting them as they are rather than we wish them to be... another tall order
Zon Kwan: love is giving regardless of what you get out of it
Bleu Oleander: do you have to lose yourself to love another?
druth Vlodovic: but a basic part, if you love what they could be, or what you want them to be then you love only yourself
druth Vlodovic: or hate yourself- more like
Eliza Madrigal: mmm
Zon Kwan: no blue, you do it because you love it
druth Vlodovic: I don't think you have to lose yourself, better if you don't, but that is hard
druth Vlodovic: how can they love you if you aren't you anymore?
Eliza Madrigal: I hear 'aspiration to love' in this conversation... coming back to the work mentioned earlier
Zen Arado: 's current display-name is "Zen".
Zen Arado: Hi all
Bleu Oleander: hi Zen in the great flying chair :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zen :)
druth Vlodovic: good god
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Zen
Xirana Oximoxi: hi Zen! :)
Zon Kwan: hi zen
druth Vlodovic: hi zen
Bleu Oleander: 'aspiration to love' say more?
Eliza Madrigal: I'm attached to the idea of losing myself in love and still being able to get the dishes washed
Bleu Oleander: ha!
Bleu Oleander: love means never having to wash dishes hehe
Eliza Madrigal: think there is something of an impossible capacity... not even rare, more than rare
Zon Kwan: we seem to mix words love and desire
Louis Onyett: I love the dishes, clean them, and have no expectations of them
druth Vlodovic: "losing yourself in love" is this what happens at first, or does your truer self come out to play?
Bleu Oleander: hehe
Louis Onyett: Chocolate is a different story.
Catrinamonblue Resident: ;)
Eliza Madrigal: I think it is a higher bar... that deeper love should mean deeper trust and offguardedness
Bleu Oleander: chocolate is THE story :)
Xirana Oximoxi: :)
Eliza Madrigal: but perhaps I am a romantic to a ridiculous degree
druth Vlodovic: it tends to cut through defences
Catrinamonblue Resident: love is hard work though to be vulnerable to yourself and another
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Louis Onyett: I know, it is like magic. Anti-oxidants etc
Zon Kwan: love thouself
Eliza Madrigal: lol
Zon Kwan: only way to love others
Bleu Oleander: love is like an anti-oxidant
Louis Onyett: Dark chocolate reference
Louis Onyett: hehe
Bleu Oleander: especially dark choc
druth Vlodovic: can you love someone while "believing in them" or is that loving a personal illusion?
Zen Arado: dark choc is more reliable
Bleu Oleander goes to kitchen to grab some dk choc :)
Zon Kwan: they may have horsemeat in it
Xirana Oximoxi: hello Adams!
Bleu Oleander: hi Adams :)
Zen Arado: Hi Adams
Catrinamonblue Resident: depends Druth on what you are beleiving?
druth Vlodovic: hey adams
Eliza Madrigal: if a relationship can't break through ot that kind of romantic love it can still be beautiful but perhaps leave desire to wrestle with and perhaps then an aspect of self hidden from other
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Adams :))
--BELL--

Catrinamonblue Resident: is your beleif based on reality or what you want them to be?
Catrinamonblue Resident: if it is based on what you want them to be then is it really love? or a need from within yourself not fulfilled?
Adams Rubble: Hello Ev eryone :0
Zon Kwan: what do you want out of love ?
druth Vlodovic: it was said earlier that loving means trusting
Zen Arado: it's all too complicated for me
druth Vlodovic: but isn't it better to trust someone to follow their own nature?
Catrinamonblue Resident: nature can change with time and maturity
Bleu Oleander: it's Louis' fault ... he suggested this topic hehe
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Zon Kwan: its simple, just love
Adams Rubble: :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: if only it wsa that simple Zon
Catrinamonblue Resident: was*
Zon Kwan: it is
druth Vlodovic: for a topic this week I should look up Yoda's bad advice to Annakin
Zen Arado: it's only simple if you don't think about it
Bleu Oleander: beauty in simplicity
Zon Kwan: but more difficult with desire
Zen Arado: then it gets complicated
druth Vlodovic: "defining the undefinable"
Adams Rubble: love unconditionally
druth Vlodovic: can you put borders on love?
Louis Onyett: Being in the flow, just doing a thing, is wonderful. Includes just loving without thinking about it.
Zen Arado: maybe it's a doing more than thinking?
Zen Arado: yeh
Zon Kwan: or being
Louis Onyett: Maybe that does not change much with time.
Eliza Madrigal: good point Catrina... re change and maturity - sometimes it means letting go and sometimes allowing space... can never be a formula
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)

Zon Kwan: relationships are more difficult than loving

Catrinamonblue Resident: yes
Zon Kwan: tradings..

Eliza Madrigal smiles Zon... nice nutshell

Catrinamonblue Resident: more complicated than just love
druth Vlodovic: easy to love, hard to deal with the results sometimes

Bleu Oleander: "just love"

Zon Kwan: ego games
Louis Onyett: Yes, and we were talking about how the change and why. Maybe the simple part is love.
druth Vlodovic: allowing yourself
druth Vlodovic: is that the basis of no-ego?
Bleu Oleander: love is it's own "flow" in a way
Zon Kwan: depends on ones worldview
Eliza Madrigal: no owning love
Zon Kwan: what love is
Adams Rubble: the difficulty with relationships start with expectations
Catrinamonblue Resident: agree Adams
Bleu Oleander: yes
Zen Arado: love has no 'allowings'
druth Vlodovic: lol, to love oneself is to seek the best for oneself while allowing you to be you, and to allow change and space
Bleu Oleander: tall order
Zon Kwan: difficulties with relationships start from thinking i am a separate being
Zen Arado: who even knows what love is?
druth Vlodovic: perhaps ego is a lack of self-love
Bleu Oleander: "I know it when I feel it"
Eliza Madrigal: :)
druth Vlodovic: "love has no "allowings"" what does this mean?
Zen Arado: don't know
Eliza Madrigal: many expressions of love.. some of gentle patience, some of passionate intensity, some of letting be, maybe some very practical
Zen Arado: just felt like saying it
druth Vlodovic: grr
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Bleu Oleander: hehe
druth Vlodovic: discourse poetry
Zen Arado: allowing felt kind of calculating I guess
Xirana Oximoxi: it makes sense.... love is not about..'I allow you to do this'.. but not that, and that' ...
Zon Kwan: zen ,,we all use the world love differently
Zon Kwan: like other words too
Eliza Madrigal: maybe the idealistic part is expecting one relationship to be all of things at once - therefore perhaps reserved for a more "cosmic" connection
Zen Arado: as if it can be controlled
druth Vlodovic: lol, right, "right creates wrong" etc, the second chapter of Tao
Eliza Madrigal: Hi poteko
Bleu Oleander: cosmic love
druth Vlodovic: so "allowing" would create "disallowing"
Zon Kwan: relationships should be banned
Eliza Madrigal: lol
Catrinamonblue Resident: lol
Xirana Oximoxi: haha
Xirana Oximoxi: :)
Zon Kwan: only realting should be allowed
Zon Kwan: relating
druth Vlodovic: vote Zon for prime minister!
Bleu Oleander: haha
Catrinamonblue Resident: then how would mankind continue into the next generation :)
Zen Arado: lust would suffice
Zon Kwan: relationship is something dead
Bleu Oleander: no worries there :)
Zon Kwan: relating is living
druth Vlodovic: we can let the kids run free in the wild and raise themselves
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Wol Euler: hello pabonauts
Eliza Madrigal: imagine no mortgages....
Louis Onyett: Read a book-didn't turn out well. lol
Bleu Oleander: hiya Wol
Xirana Oximoxi: helo Wol! :)
Zen Arado: Hi Wol
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Wol :)
Zon Kwan: we can relate to kids in responsive way
Bleu Oleander: shall we go to the guardian mtg?
Bleu Oleander: fun conversation
druth Vlodovic: love to
Eliza Madrigal: it is time :)
Bleu Oleander: ty Louis for suggesting it
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Adams Rubble: Hello Wol
Bleu Oleander: and ty all for coming
Louis Onyett: Bye all. Nice chat.
Zon Kwan: waves
Catrinamonblue Resident: Bye Louis ty :)
Eliza Madrigal: Louis you're welcome to join us too... different spot and a few agenda items but prob some continuation of this morning if pattern plays
druth Vlodovic: oh,what book was that Louis?
Xirana Oximoxi: bye bye for now:)
Adams Rubble: bye everyone :)
Eliza Madrigal: good to see you Adams
Wol Euler: bye and/or see you in a moment elsewhere
Bleu Oleander: yes, join us if you like Louis
Louis Onyett: Druth-thinking, it was about kids stranded in a junge
druth Vlodovic: ah right
Louis Onyett: *jungle
druth Vlodovic: "Lord of the Flies"
Louis Onyett: yeppers.
druth Vlodovic: I shouldn't admit to this but I was thinking of "Barbarella"
druth Vlodovic: come join us :)
Louis Onyett: eh, close.
Louis Onyett: K.