2013.06.02 07:00 - Sunday Dreamers

The Guardian for this meeting was Bleu Oleander. The comments are by Bleu Oleander.

Bleu Oleander: 's current display-name is "Bleu".

--BELL-- 

Eliza Madrigal: 's current display-name is "Eliza".
Bleu Oleander: hi Eliza !
Eliza Madrigal: Morning ^^
Bleu Oleander: stop raining there?
Eliza Madrigal: it comes and goes, as does the internet connection unfortunately :)
Bleu Oleander: awww :(
Eliza Madrigal: this is a fascinating setting :::acclimates::::
Bleu Oleander: we're sitting in a painting :)
Bleu Oleander: hiya druth :)
druth Vlodovic: hey
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Druth :)
Eliza Madrigal: Van Gogh?
Bleu Oleander: Anselm Kiefer
Bleu Oleander: German painter
Bleu Oleander: http://www.gagosian.com/artists/anselm-kiefer
Eliza Madrigal: like very much, ty
Bleu Oleander: yw
Bleu Oleander: I really like his new pieces
Eliza Madrigal: taking a while to open, so I'll save the link to see when out of SL :)
Bleu Oleander: kk
Eliza Madrigal: so, dreaming inspiration yet? :)
Bleu Oleander: I've written down several of my dreams
Bleu Oleander: haven't decided which or how I will represent any of them yet
Bleu Oleander: you?
Bleu Oleander: I did have one that combined RL and SL that might be fun
Eliza Madrigal: I've been taking little dream notes again but nothing stands out as project material...
Eliza Madrigal: oh?
Eliza Madrigal: I find it odd when people who are in SL a lot don't dream SL :)
Bleu Oleander: not sure any of mine are so far either :)
Bleu Oleander: yes
Bleu Oleander: in my sl dreams avatars switch back and forth to rl people
Eliza Madrigal: my experience as well... quite blended
Bleu Oleander: morph between two worlds
Eliza Madrigal: for you Druth?
druth Vlodovic: depands on how much time you spend online :)
Bleu Oleander: I have been trying to give myself suggestions to dream about and it does work to an extent
druth Vlodovic: everything we do and experience is RL, including dreams
Bleu Oleander: yes
Eliza Madrigal: I've found suggestions helpful too.. for me most often questions
Eliza Madrigal: but sometimes it takes a few days or weeks to come up
Bleu Oleander: yes
Eliza Madrigal: feels like fishing :)
druth Vlodovic: sometimes when I get annoyed that I rarely dream I sort of lay in bed and daydream,hoping to jumpstart the process
Bleu Oleander: :)
Eliza Madrigal: are you able to keep a string into dreaming?
druth Vlodovic: there are significant differences between the two processes though
Bleu Oleander: yes
Eliza Madrigal listens
Bleu Oleander: in daydreams you can direct your thoughts, most dreams you cannot
--BELL-- 

Bleu Oleander: hi Kori :)
Eliza Madrigal: Morning Kori :)
druth Vlodovic: I wonder if lucid dreaming isn't just changing a dream into a daydream
druth Vlodovic: hi korel
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Xiri :)
Korel Laloix: Heya
Korel Laloix: Morning
Bleu Oleander: hi Xiri :)
Xirana Oximoxi: 's current display-name is "Xirana".
druth Vlodovic: well, daydreaming you almost always know it is just images, unless you are doing something extremely boring, in which case I'd argue that you slipped into dreaming
Eliza Madrigal: I'm finding this interesting because I experience nighttime dreaming as when I'm able to do what I want to... which is let go
Xirana Oximoxi: hello everyone! :-)
druth Vlodovic: hi xir :)
Eliza Madrigal: in daydreaming I come across more hesitations ... control in the way
Eliza Madrigal: though I've experimented with sallies for years
druth Vlodovic: when you say "let go" does this mean you don't control it? or that you allow yourself uncommon experiences
Bleu Oleander: yes, that's because your logical reasoning is still strong in daydreaming
Korel Laloix: I don't remember my dreams.. but my day dreams tend to be way otu of control... smiles
Eliza Madrigal: just feel far more limited, less imaginative and trusting
Eliza Madrigal: self-conscious :)
druth Vlodovic: :)
druth Vlodovic: "what if someone saw me thinking this" lol
Bleu Oleander: yes, self reflective awareness is stronger in daydreaming than in sleeping dreams
Eliza Madrigal: hah, yes or "when we get to this point we start over" rather than going on
Korel Laloix: I find that very interesting.. mine I guess mine tend toward the fanatcy sort of things... so less control and less self conscious.
Korel Laloix: Maybe not the same thing.
Eliza Madrigal: daydreams are fanciful, Kor?
Korel Laloix: For me... daydreams often involve a good amount of sensual themes.
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Eliza Madrigal: overspill of good relationship I guess :)
Korel Laloix: Sometimes... but others.. lol
Eliza Madrigal: well if one believes Freud all dreams are sexual I think
Korel Laloix: I do have a lot of hangups about my appearance, but those don't ever really creap into my daydreams.. it is more like they arnt even there.
Eliza Madrigal: nice
Eliza Madrigal: you can put worries aside
Zen Arado: 's current display-name is "Zen".
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zen :)
Bleu Oleander: hiya Zen :)
Korel Laloix: Evidently I have a some sensual theme regular dreams as well based on conversations of some that I have slept with.
Xirana Oximoxi: try the other side Zen :)
Korel Laloix: But I have no way of comparing them of course.
Eliza Madrigal: conversational night dreams seem particularly interesting
Xirana Oximoxi: it's difficult to come in here :)
druth Vlodovic: we need to ghost our enclosures
Bleu Oleander: sorry, it's phantom now :)
Zen Arado: Hi all
druth Vlodovic: phantom, sorry
Eliza Madrigal: have to show desire to get in, lol
Xirana Oximoxi: :)
Bleu Oleander: lol
Zen Arado: I thought it was a women only meeting :)
druth Vlodovic: you can change :)
druth Vlodovic: always room for improvement
Bleu Oleander: lol
Korel Laloix: The thing about daydreams though.. why not push them out of your comfort zone.
Korel Laloix: ?
--BELL-- 

Bleu Oleander: can push them where you want them to go, harder to do that with sleep dreams
Korel Laloix: No idea on sleep dreams.
Bleu Oleander: hard to direct your sleep dreams unless lucid dreams
Xirana Oximoxi: is it possible to 'control' sleep dreams?..I mean, not to remember them, but to drive them into the subjects you like?
Eliza Madrigal: I guess I like being directed... hm, thinking
Bleu Oleander: suggestions can work
druth Vlodovic: my comfort zones in RL, SL and mentally tend to be quite different :)
Eliza Madrigal: relate to that
druth Vlodovic: a long time ago i figured out how to control dreams, but they got shallower,and after a bit i could only dream while controlling them
druth Vlodovic: I consider it a loss
Eliza Madrigal nods....
Eliza Madrigal: it is possible to control the dreams but there is a kind of lucid dreaming that is more creative than that I think
Bleu Oleander: one of the characteristics of REM sleep dreams is that they are not able to be controlled
Eliza Madrigal: isn't so much control as being extra alert
Bleu Oleander: lucid dreams can be controlled
Bleu Oleander: rather there is a sense of directing
Xirana Oximoxi: ok, thank you...I have no idea about all of it
Bleu Oleander: interesting new research on dreams :)
Eliza Madrigal: wonder if the different kinds of dreams will eventually be picked up by researchers
Eliza Madrigal: I find my experience is more diverse than the categories at present
Xirana Oximoxi: yes...I'll have to do some readings to learn a little
Bleu Oleander: what are the categories at present and how are yours more diverse?
Eliza Madrigal: well, as with lucid dreaming... there are dreams in which one has a greater sense of mastery and can use tricks to stay in longer etc
Eliza Madrigal: but then there is something more than that which is more like insight
Eliza Madrigal: not problem solving necessarily, which doesn't have to be lucid
Eliza Madrigal: in the insight dreams it isn't so much control and wider awareness
Eliza Madrigal: and I haven't heard researchers talk about these distinctions yet
Bleu Oleander: wider awareness?
Eliza Madrigal: mhm... think this is where premonistic dreams happen and that kind of thing
druth Vlodovic: I'm not sure that studying the content of dreams would be considered "hard" science, more the realm of psychology or mysticism
Eliza Madrigal: well if a researcher can tell when a dreamer is lucid, which I think they're beginning to...
Eliza Madrigal: then they'll refine more and more
druth Vlodovic: interesting to know if content affects mental activity though
Bleu Oleander: I've not heard of any research on premonistic dreams
Eliza Madrigal: I think they're beginning to pick up patterns, not whole pictures, but shapes, too somehow
Eliza Madrigal: from a person's dream
Eliza Madrigal: pretty wild ::sits on hands::: :)
Bleu Oleander: I think the distinction on content now is not so much universal symbol interpretations as in meaning for you
Eliza Madrigal: if there is an awareness of not lucid and yes lucid, there's no reason there couldn't be more distinctions seen
Eliza Madrigal: not sure :)
Bleu Oleander: they can get clues now from looking in the brain while people sleep
Eliza Madrigal nods
Bleu Oleander: can do that while awake too :)
Eliza Madrigal: for me it just feels that my nightime awareness if far more vast and I'd love to have the experience others describe of that freedom in daydreaming :)
Eliza Madrigal: *is
druth Vlodovic: is nighttime awareness more vast,or just less controlled and defensive?
Eliza Madrigal: same likely :)
--BELL-- 

druth Vlodovic: I know I experience a sort of "drawing in" when stressed
druth Vlodovic: for all of it's oddities inside the mind is all us, and so often a safer place than RL
Bleu Oleander: like you said earlier ... it's all RL
druth Vlodovic: :)
Eliza Madrigal: :) perhaps it is like motor skills, where one is able to use one tool more easily than another
Eliza Madrigal: I see night dreams spill into Rl all the time ... so can see the entanglement there... yet daydreams are just dull, hah
Bleu Oleander: hmmm I love my daydreams lol
Eliza Madrigal: maybe you could lead us in one like Lia did? :))
Zen Arado: not sure what daydreams are now
Bleu Oleander: I daydream while I paint
Eliza Madrigal: ah... so hands are busy and mind is free to wander
druth Vlodovic: maybe get korel to do it, hers sound very interesting...
Bleu Oleander: yes
Xirana Oximoxi: daydreams are our consciuos fantasies?
Eliza Madrigal: heheh
Eliza Madrigal: yes!
Bleu Oleander: hi Aph
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Aph :)
Xirana Oximoxi: hello Aph! :-)
Zen Arado: Hi Aph
Aphrodite Macbain: This is beautiful!
Xirana Oximoxi: hehe drruth :))
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Xiri
Bleu Oleander: it's a Kiefer painting
Aphrodite Macbain: who made this?
Aphrodite Macbain: ah
druth Vlodovic: kiefer is very much into grey
Aphrodite Macbain: thanks Anselm
Bleu Oleander: http://www.gagosian.com/exhibitions/...r--may-03-2013
Xirana Oximoxi: ahhh one of my prefered painters!! what a coincidence..I've just found his page on FB ! :-)
druth Vlodovic: daydreams are the precursor to VR
Aphrodite Macbain: how do you make this?
druth Vlodovic: what SL wants to be in it's best moments lol
Bleu Oleander: with one of his images
Aphrodite Macbain: I feel like I'm in a diorama
Eliza Madrigal: ah, dots connecting.. same with the stars from a few years ago?
Bleu Oleander: like sitting inside a painting
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Bleu Oleander: he has a new show up in NYC
Aphrodite Macbain: let's all go!
Aphrodite Macbain: where?
Bleu Oleander: yes!!!
Eliza Madrigal: well in VR there are others... so material is there and responsiveness from others
Aphrodite Macbain: we need a mural a week
druth Vlodovic: somesay that there are others in dreams too,not sure I like the idea =8-O
Xirana Oximoxi: ohh I would like to visit it....I've seen only one RL work of him, in Barcelona
Bleu Oleander: I try and make a different one each week
Aphrodite Macbain: each of us can come up with an image
Aphrodite Macbain: thanks Bleu
druth Vlodovic: we can alternate between "theme" and "painting" and maybe "poem" for our weekly themes
Aphrodite Macbain: If I find one I like can I send it to you?
Bleu Oleander: sure
Aphrodite Macbain: what would the "theme" for this painting be?
Bleu Oleander: I can also give you this and you can texture it any way you like
Aphrodite Macbain: great!
Aphrodite Macbain: It would be fun to experiment
Eliza Madrigal: am going to freshen coffee and will see you at Village Hall - thanks for an interesting session
Xirana Oximoxi: yes! :-)
Bleu Oleander: just click on it and take a copy
druth Vlodovic: wind blowing gently across the fields, spreading seeds to fill the land with life, softly filling me
Bleu Oleander: ok yes to the Hall :)
Bleu Oleander: thanks all for coming
Aphrodite Macbain: nice druth :-)
druth Vlodovic: TO THE HALL!
Bleu Oleander: lol