2013.06.05 07:00 - Wabi Sabi Daydreams

Session was at Kira Cafe because of region restart. Guardian was Zen Arado. All comments by Zen Arado.

Zen (zen.arado): Hi Eliza
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): Hiya
Zen (zen.arado): I think we can talk here
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): should be the case
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): whether I can sit is another matter
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): tada...amazing
Zen (zen.arado): I got the armchair
Zen (zen.arado): :)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): you did...
Zen (zen.arado): but I am old :)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): lol
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): no old avies
Zen (zen.arado): I never get to sit in an armchair
Zen (zen.arado): in RL
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): feels plain in here... are there things missing?
Zen (zen.arado): I give my neck an awful jolt if I start to doze in wheelchair
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): ouch
Zen (zen.arado): looks too much empty spave behind us
Zen (zen.arado): space
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I think there were chairs before
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): and little tables... so maybe saving prims now
Zen (zen.arado): hmm maybe
Zen (zen.arado): are you in panera?
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): the internet has been kind for a whole day straight... so no...
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): just came from zumba
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :)
Zen (zen.arado): zumba?
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): like salsa gym class... was hard to keep up with the grammas
Zen (zen.arado): heh
Zen (zen.arado): you will soon be one
Zen (zen.arado): :)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): not too soon @@
Zen (zen.arado): depends on daughter
Zen (zen.arado): I came in from sitting in the sun
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): nice there now?
Zen (zen.arado): a rare event in N.Ireland
Zen (zen.arado): yes was nice yesterday too
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): Aggers was saying it was sunny yesterday, too... and I think Wol
Zen (zen.arado): wow 22 degrees it says
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): here we are about to have a lot more rain
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): and possibly a tropical system
Zen (zen.arado): tropical sigh
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :)

Eliza daydreams:

Eliza (eliza.madrigal): so are you daydreaming?
Zen (zen.arado): I was writing about trip back to N.Ireland from Australia this morning
Zen (zen.arado): heh I always was a terrible daydreamer
Zen (zen.arado): like my mother
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): like your mother?
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): whispers: very practical?
Zen (zen.arado): she walked around in a dream
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): oh :)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): how so?
Zen (zen.arado): father used to say she was in a coma
Zen (zen.arado): always miles away
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): /me smiles
Zen (zen.arado): if you know what I mean
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): takes a lot of energy to concern oneself with everyone else perhaps
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): dreaming time
Zen (zen.arado): but she was happy
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): when I try to daydream in a wishing way, I can never just see 'what I want' in isolation
Zen (zen.arado): we need our dreams
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): it is hard for me to understand people who can really
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): and sometimes people will say "yeah but what do YOU want?"
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): seems silly almost
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :)
Zen (zen.arado): what is daydreaming
Zen (zen.arado): you are giving it a different to me
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): seem to be different kinds
Zen (zen.arado): definition
Zen (zen.arado): about wanting things
Zen (zen.arado): one meaning I guess
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I think I was thinking Rosatta's way just then
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): but there are sallies too, more open ended
Zen (zen.arado): being a film star?
Zen (zen.arado): or wealthy?
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): or like... hm... yesterday my son had to write 5 little essays
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): and they all had questions like "if you won a sweepstakes..."
Zen (zen.arado): ha yes
Zen (zen.arado): everyone does that one
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): it was really interesting to hear his answers
Zen (zen.arado): if you won the lottery...
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): at first he was really distressed by the idea
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): but then we broke the amount down into five parts
Zen (zen.arado): depends how much too
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): what if it isn't money but talent or energy distribution?
Zen (zen.arado): then you get into political philosophy :)
Zen (zen.arado): John Rawls
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I think it is helpful to make a blueprint as long as one doesn't get stuck to it
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): yes?
Zen (zen.arado): how wealth should be distributed
Zen (zen.arado): why should some have so much more than others?
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): lol... well that would be quite a writing prompt "if you were given ALL the resources..."
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): /me nods
Zen (zen.arado): 'A Theory of Justice'
Zen (zen.arado): veil of ignorance etc
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): ah, yes
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): veil of ignorance is similar to phenomenology's suspension I guess
Zen (zen.arado): I 've forgotten most of it
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): one of his categories was "valid reason" and it didn't have to be something totally useful, but would have to be something the person had really considered.. that meant something to them, even if silly
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I liked that
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): that's what's left out of zero sum thinking maybe
Zen (zen.arado): oney for healthcare
Zen (zen.arado): money
Zen (zen.arado): Switches to voice typing
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :)
Zen (zen.arado): I wouldn't want any more money
Zen (zen.arado): what would I do with it
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): /me smiles
Zen (zen.arado): I can't spend the money I have
Zen (zen.arado): not I am wealthy
Zen (zen.arado): but I have more money than I need
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I watched a snippet of an older Star Trek film - long enough for Jean Luc to be giving a tour to someone and saying that money was obsolete by that time...
Zen (zen.arado): I don't go on holidays or buy cars
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): not the way of things anymore
Zen (zen.arado): and I own my apartment
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): that's interesting to daydream about
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): so a base satisfaction with things Zen?
Zen (zen.arado): people like me daydream about getting their muscular strength back again
Zen (zen.arado): and being able to go places
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): remembering?
Zen (zen.arado): I don't wish for the past
Zen (zen.arado): art tutor sent us an email about writing week
Zen (zen.arado): that we could go to
Zen (zen.arado): but I couldn't manage it and it would be so much fun
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): are you sure you couldn't manage?
Zen (zen.arado): writing tutor that is
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): if resources aren't an issue, why not?
Zen (zen.arado): I would have to stay in a hotel and none of them are accessible enough and I would need a helper etc
Zen (zen.arado): the place is about 60 miles away
Zen (zen.arado): too far to get a taxi there and back every day
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I see...
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I understand the hesitation.. sounds like a lot of trouble in some ways..
Zen (zen.arado): but you have to apply for a bursary or something anyway
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): but I don't think that's reason enough not to do it necessarily :)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): ?
Zen (zen.arado): you have to be me to understand Eliza
Zen (zen.arado): the struggle with toilets is another one
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): /me nods... trying... listening :)
Zen (zen.arado): I really can't cope with toilets anymore
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): the carer you have can't travel for a day or two?
Zen (zen.arado): anyway I get too tired
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): if you give a nice gift ? :)
Zen (zen.arado): I have three carers
Zen (zen.arado): they are employed by our health system
Zen (zen.arado): and they have a run to do each morning
Zen (zen.arado): I am only one of about 10 people they would see each morning
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): does seem a lot
Zen (zen.arado): they never do two days in a row usually
Zen (zen.arado): they only get 15 minutes for some people
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I was reading in classified ads.... about "companions"
Zen (zen.arado): I get 45 minutes
Zen (zen.arado): this isn't new Eliza I have been fighting to do things like this for 30 or 40 years
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): /me nods
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): you do so much Zen... have an incredible range of life and mind
Zen (zen.arado): I used to go to summer schools
Zen (zen.arado): so I'm coming to the point where I have to accept that I can't do so many things
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): what do you MOST want to do?
Zen (zen.arado): I don't most want to do anything
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): am being like those people who ask me I guess :P
Zen (zen.arado): I just do whatever seems possible and whatever I
Zen (zen.arado): feel like doing
Zen (zen.arado): this chat box is chewing up the words
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): it is mixing them up
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): maybe lag
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): but I can configure the puzzle okay if you can
Zen (zen.arado): but you know the way it goes when you start to type and the words come from the right again
Zen (zen.arado): I don't know how to describe that
Zen (zen.arado): if you are correcting something
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): ah, nods
Zen (zen.arado): I guess we don't have any choice about our daydreams either
Zen (zen.arado): when I was a young man I would have loved a Ferrari
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :)
Zen (zen.arado): or a beautiful young woman has a girlfriend
Zen (zen.arado): but now I know that those things come at a price :-)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): lol
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): get the first and there are bunches of the second :P
Zen (zen.arado): so what are an old mans daydreams?
Zen (zen.arado): You think?
Zen (zen.arado): :-)
Zen (zen.arado): I think being older you don't want so many things
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): whispers: maybe one wants to simply make sense of their life for themselves as they get older?
Zen (zen.arado): you know those things don't make you any happier
Zen (zen.arado): know I just learned that it doesn't make any sense
Zen (zen.arado): and just allowing it to be the way it is
Zen (zen.arado): there is nothing I can do about it anyway
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): not sure
Zen (zen.arado): it's like when someone was complaining to me about being depressed lately and I said to them why not just allow yourself to be depressed
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :)
Zen (zen.arado): that's the way life goes anyway it's just a series of ups and downs
Zen (zen.arado): you can try to straighten it out or make it only ups
Zen (zen.arado): but that doesn't work
Zen (zen.arado): you have to have the downs or you won't have any ups
Zen (zen.arado): I don't seem to have many ups and downs nowadays perhaps that is the secret you learn in old age
Zen (zen.arado): the peace that passes understanding
Zen (zen.arado): not always keeping looking for something that you think you should have
Zen (zen.arado): but realising that what you have is perfect already
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :)
Zen (zen.arado): I'm getting preachy
Zen (zen.arado): Hi Yaku :)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): perfectly okay... for some of us "preachy" is still a bit comforting
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): Hi Yaku :))
Yaku (yakuzza.lethecus): hey the two of you
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): son and I talked a lot about wabi sabi yesterday, too
Zen (zen.arado): your son?
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): yes
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): while he was writing
Zen (zen.arado): He is a clever little son :-)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): he gets perfectionistic
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): well.... it is a long story but basically the essays he was writing were so he could pass the school year
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): because he hadn't been doing them
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): and part of the issue is that he is not pleased with what he does
Zen (zen.arado): yes
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): although he is really creative and interesting, if a bit too honest..lol
Zen (zen.arado): if you could get him to do free writing..
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): so not all teachers will get it, but he needs to learn to enjoy the ride
Zen (zen.arado): To loosen up his creativity and then he could be perfectionist with that
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): /me nods... unfortunately that looks like "school" to him
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): he's finding his way and I admire his struggle
Zen (zen.arado): I think our education systems make us to perfectionist
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): it is only when he loses his humor about it all that it is hard
Zen (zen.arado): all these right and wrong answers
Zen (zen.arado): something is right or wrong
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): /me nods
Zen (zen.arado): yes
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): and picking apart what's wrong without also digging to uncover what's going on
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): if anything is :)
Zen (zen.arado): so much concentration on grading and exams
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): this is sort of near and dear to your heart too Yaku, right
Zen (zen.arado): and so little in bringing out people's creativity and imagination
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): /me nods
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I got in trouble a few times as a writing tutor
Zen (zen.arado): like the old man in the art club last week I overheard saying to someone I still haven't got this painting right yet
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): for letting the kids go wild ... so they may write something not "pretty"
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): how long had he been working with it?
Zen (zen.arado): I don't know
Zen (zen.arado): but he always talks about mistakes in paintings and I can never see what he means by that
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :)
Zen (zen.arado): he used to be a draughtsman
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): trained to get things "right"
Zen (zen.arado): he uses a ruler to draw lines in paintings
Zen (zen.arado): yes
Zen (zen.arado): but that's an example of the education system we went through
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): must be maddening at times... to be so close to getting things straight
Zen (zen.arado): and I don't think it has changed very much
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): just a matter of balance before
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): ah.... in the conversation I pointed to a painting of mine that my son likes and told him that every time I see it, I see the wrong part... and he said he would never have noticed without my doing that
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): -before*
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): and I said to him that even though I see that part, I like the painting too
Zen (zen.arado): it's the same with me
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I remember the energy of it, the joy of the process, the feeling of surprise
Zen (zen.arado): I don't like having my paintings hanging around my walls because I take them down and start working on them again
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): hehhe
Zen (zen.arado): it's the same with a piece of writing
Zen (zen.arado): if I leave it for a while and come back to it I see things that need changing
Zen (zen.arado): but that's the way life is always changing
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): that's the thing
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): sometimes one leaves something... unsaid for instance... and the moment never comes again
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): so it is also good to be willing to be imperfect
Zen (zen.arado): because there is no perfection
Zen (zen.arado): it's just an idea
Zen (zen.arado): l
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): something worthy about the striving I guess
Zen (zen.arado): we have to learn to appreciate the messiness of life
Zen (zen.arado): the unexpectedness of it
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): /me nods
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): whispers: thoughts, Yaku?
Zen (zen.arado): that's what makes it so rich and interesting
Yaku (yakuzza.lethecus): well, wabi sabi and imperfectionism sounds very interesting
Zen (zen.arado): in the Zen tea ceremony they look for cups that have imperfections
Yaku (yakuzza.lethecus): acceptance and wabi sabi ?
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): love the word: "imperfectionism"
Zen (zen.arado): or so-called imperfections
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): /me nods... does seem acceptance and appreciation in that
Zen (zen.arado): which are actually beautiful
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I told him (son) the story too... of the smashed tea bowl that was repaired so that
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): the broken places were not only seen
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): but art themselves
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): there is a word for this too... sometimes using gold
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): there was an article "art of repair" ... let me see if I find it
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): aha!
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): http://www.aeonmagazine.com/being-hu...art-of-repair/
Zen (zen.arado): I think it is wabi sabi too
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): /me nods
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): "According to Christy Bartlett, a contemporary tea master based in San Francisco, it is this ‘gap between the vanity of pristine appearance and the fractured manifestation of mortal fate which deepens its appeal’. The mended object is special precisely because it was worth mending. The repair, like that of an old teddy bear, is a testament to the affection in which the object is held.
 
 "
Zen (zen.arado): more like Sabi
Zen (zen.arado): Wabi-sabi (侘寂?) represents a comprehensive Japanese world view or aesthetic centered on the acceptance of transience and imperfection. The aesthetic is sometimes described as one of beauty that is "imperfect, impermanent, and incomplete"
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): /me smiles
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): like the character lines in a person's face...
Zen (zen.arado): but if you think of it in a broader sense it applies to everything
Zen (zen.arado): just treasuring everything in life and accepting that things age
Zen (zen.arado): yes
Zen (zen.arado): a kind of acceptance
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :)
Zen (zen.arado): our society doesn't value things that way
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I hope we're learning to
Zen (zen.arado): they bring out new iPhones all the time
Zen (zen.arado): I have an old Wabi Sabi 3GS
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): hehehhehe
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I don't have a smartphone either
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): but I have SL :)
Zen (zen.arado): wabi sabi viewer?
Zen (zen.arado): :)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): haha... not even... not allowed to keep those :P
Yaku (yakuzza.lethecus): Especially the wednesday 7am session is very wabi sabi in sl :)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): /me smiles
Zen (zen.arado): yep
Zen (zen.arado): I don't like things to structured I guess
Zen (zen.arado): or do I?
Yaku (yakuzza.lethecus): not abou tyou
Zen (zen.arado): I just don't know anything about myself anymore
Yaku (yakuzza.lethecus): the sim restart
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :)
Zen (zen.arado): I realised all my definitions of myself were false
Zen (zen.arado): or were they?
Yaku (yakuzza.lethecus): and being in another place it itself got it´s on charm
Zen (zen.arado): :-)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): true
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): thrown out of comfort zone
Zen (zen.arado): It's funny but I think if I had to go to the pavilion every week that would feel uncomfortable :-)
Yaku (yakuzza.lethecus): hey it´s comfy here, nto as much as in the couch corner maybe but it´s ok too :)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): used to be cozier here
Zen (zen.arado): I would miss my restarts
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): a little less bare
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): so we are like eaglets having the next made uncomfortable
Zen (zen.arado): we have to accept groundlessness
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): what was wrong, btw, Zen? with what you thought you were?
Zen (zen.arado): none of the stories about myself are actually true
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :)
Zen (zen.arado): like Byron Katie says
Zen (zen.arado): how could they be if I am changing or what I think of as I is changing?
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): and like mentioned in the beginning... so interconnected to others
Zen (zen.arado): Other people are changing me
Zen (zen.arado): everything is changing me
Zen (zen.arado): and I am changing them
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): dreaming each other maybe
Zen (zen.arado): and it is all totally unpredictable and inexplicable
Zen (zen.arado): I still don't see much significance in my night dreams though
Zen (zen.arado): at least daydreams are sensible
Zen (zen.arado): if not attainable
Zen (zen.arado): if I attained my daydreams it would be a disaster probably
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): heheh
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): its all a disaster probably
Zen (zen.arado): yep
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I dreamed that I couldn't get into a place, the other night, because the young girl at the counter thought I was was "dull minded"
Zen (zen.arado): you have such interesting dreams Aliza
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): that's my own perfectionism talking to me
Zen (zen.arado): Eliza
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :) everyone does
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): just a matter of remembering things that jump out
Zen (zen.arado): the dull minded not allowed entrance :-)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): exactly
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): not allowed in the club
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :)
Zen (zen.arado): an intelligence test for admittance
Zen (zen.arado): all the clubs would be empty then :-)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I have some issues with memory in other ways...
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): remembering dates or names or names of theories, etc
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): they come to me, but only if I'm writing or, hm, well I can't usually call them up easily
Zen (zen.arado): but we don't know what other people's memories are like
Zen (zen.arado): how can we say we have a good or bad memory?
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): different kinds of memory?
Zen (zen.arado): How good should our memories be?
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): there are kinds of memory that is valued, and for good reason... ways of reading, etc
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): maps
Zen (zen.arado): I think our brain structure memories that might be useful
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): son was much better at Lukey's quiz yesterday... made the connections like snap snap snap
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I can only do that by fluke luck :)
Zen (zen.arado): but that's a matter of knowing a lot of trivial things
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): still pretty neat
Zen (zen.arado): people who do those quizzes just learn lots of facts from encyclopaedias
Zen (zen.arado): and they get good at them
Zen (zen.arado): I always remember Eckardt Tolly's definition of intelligence tests
Zen (zen.arado): people who are good at those are good at doing little puzzles :-)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): /me smiles
Zen (zen.arado): I think there's a lot in what he says
Zen (zen.arado): and what our society elevates as intelligence
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): there are different sorts of those tests, and I do think they do a lot of damage in school systems
Zen (zen.arado): but these days knowing lots of facts doesn't elevate one any more because you can just Google things
Zen (zen.arado): perhaps that is a turn for the better
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): but as a parent I've still gone along with them... they do pick up some things... 'quirks' of intelligence, at times
Zen (zen.arado): intelligence tests are about 100 years old
Zen (zen.arado): same tests
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): but the danger is that people and systems extrapolate them to mean more than they should
Zen (zen.arado): perhaps they are meaningless in a society that needs different types of knowledge
Zen (zen.arado): or abilities
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): /me nods...
Zen (zen.arado): I don't think I daydream anymore now that I think about it
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): that's what most alternative education proponents feel
Zen (zen.arado): perhaps my meditation practice has got rid of that
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): daydreaming probably includes worry... but isn't writing a story a kind of daydreaming?
Zen (zen.arado): I'm starting to realise how much those Zen retreats changed me
Zen (zen.arado): yes and maybe that's why I'm not good at that
Zen (zen.arado): I just write memoirs
Zen (zen.arado): I wrote one fiction story but it was really my own life changed into the third person
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :)
Zen (zen.arado): but of course even a memoir is also a story about a life
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): indeed
Zen (zen.arado): because we structure our past lives
Zen (zen.arado): it isn't what actually happened but structured highlights
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): what about SL , isn't it collective daydreaming sometimes?
Zen (zen.arado): yes I think so
Zen (zen.arado): we share a dream existence
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): reaching into inventories of wild and improbable items
Zen (zen.arado): but it feels so real
Yaku (yakuzza.lethecus): i liked what you said about codependent change before zen, for example when i see a picture of north ireland i might think of you, then i might think of the casthe picture that you once shared then about you doing the open university at an older age and doing zen and buddism, i see you as a very positive example how one can live at older age
Zen (zen.arado): real life is just a dream too
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): agreed, Yaku
Zen (zen.arado): thank you Yaku
Zen (zen.arado): :-)
Zen (zen.arado): but I don't have any choice than be the way I am
Zen (zen.arado): I just seem to have a drive and interests that I want to fulfil
Yaku (yakuzza.lethecus): ppl giving each other examples
Zen (zen.arado): one of my cleaning ladies had to go went to hospital for an operation and recuperating she just sat and watched the TV all day
Zen (zen.arado): and I just couldn't do that
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I've done that :)
Zen (zen.arado): I think Darryl Bailey is right
Zen (zen.arado): ;)
Zen (zen.arado): that we have no choice about what we do because we are driven by our abilities and talents and interests and disabilities
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): sometimes my mind is working on too many things and to dramatically shift gears I'll find something really shallow
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :)
Zen (zen.arado): that's my problem too Eliza
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): not obscene, like much of tv is, but something i can just be entertained by
Zen (zen.arado): I am interested in too many things
Zen (zen.arado): I find doing University courses disciplines me into concentrating on one thing
Zen (zen.arado): now I finished that I don't know whether to do more painting or do more writing :-)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :)
Zen (zen.arado): the only solution is to keep doing University courses I guess :-)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I tried a little Dash exercise in PaB Monday
Zen (zen.arado): I am a perpetual student
Zen (zen.arado): yes?
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): it was fun... if you peek at the log from 1pm
Zen (zen.arado): How did it go?
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): so maybe there is room to help people tap a bit more in that direction Zen.. since you've learned a lot
Zen (zen.arado): Maybe
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): I need to get my daughter from school early... year is almost finished
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): >woot<
Zen (zen.arado): great
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): and check on the cat... had surgery...
Zen (zen.arado): Ah yes
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): he is walking around with a cone on his head
Zen (zen.arado): how is the cat?
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): sliding against walls to find his way
Zen (zen.arado): My dog used to hate that
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): its terrible
Zen (zen.arado): he ripped wallpaper off the walls
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): hard for him to eat and sleep
Zen (zen.arado): no, I tell a lie he didn't mind it was me who didn't like it
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): aw
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): well it doesn't look fun for sure
Zen (zen.arado): he kept hitting my legs and the furniture
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): ahhh, nods... Amber does this too
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): needs scratches
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :)
Zen (zen.arado): my dog was a good patient
Yaku (yakuzza.lethecus): have a good day eliza
Zen (zen.arado): he used to let me put drops in his eyes and ears
Zen (zen.arado): byee Eliza
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): :) was fun to be at the vet with all the dogs coming in
Zen (zen.arado): thanks for coming
Zen (zen.arado): both of you :-)
Eliza (eliza.madrigal): thanks so much - bye for now
Yaku (yakuzza.lethecus): good afternoon zen
Zen (zen.arado): bye for now