2013.06.10 13:00 - Lanterns and Mind Rooms

The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal. The comments are by Eliza Madrigal.

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: Hello Catrina, Maude :)
DR42 Resident: ηαмαѕтє
Catrinamonblue Resident: hi :)
Eliza Madrigal: hmm... where to sit...
Eliza Madrigal: nice to see you both
Catrinamonblue Resident: lovely Eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: I like all the scenes Bleu made, but this may be my favorite
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)

Eliza Madrigal: So the last few weeks this session has had longer pauses than the others...
Eliza Madrigal: and last week instead of lengthening the usual pauses, we just took a longer break for the middle pause at :30 to do some dash writing
Catrinamonblue Resident: dash writing?
Eliza Madrigal nods... basically, free writing for around 8 to 10 minutes
Eliza Madrigal: last week was a daydreaming theme
Catrinamonblue Resident: to be shared?
Eliza Madrigal: only if you like
Catrinamonblue Resident: ok
Eliza Madrigal: and not necessarily the whole thing
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)

Eliza Madrigal: but I wanted to ask if you like the idea first... it is okay with me to have a regular session as well :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: I'm ok with whatever you guys would like
Eliza Madrigal: what do you think, Maude?
DR42 Resident: I don't know enough to have an opinion, I think.
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: lol up to you Eliza as to how you want to proceed
Eliza Madrigal giggles... I don't know!

Catrinamonblue Resident: I liked the longer pauses, and am not sure I'm up for dash writing today :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: hows that for giving a direction :)
Eliza Madrigal: lovely - let's do that then :))

Eliza Madrigal: so we'll pause beginning at 1:15 and come back, instead of after 90 seconds, at 1:20... then we'll pause at 1:30 in the same way...
Eliza Madrigal: no need to "meditate" necessarily
Catrinamonblue Resident: smiles
Eliza Madrigal: just check in with ourselves
Eliza Madrigal: surroundings, etc
Eliza Madrigal: :)

DR42 Resident: I'm terrible at writing. :)
Eliza Madrigal: you are so imaginative :)
Eliza Madrigal: we were having fun in the active daydreaming sessions ^^
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zon :)
Zon Kwan: heya
Catrinamonblue Resident: writing is so individual that I don't think anybody can be terrible at it :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Zon :)
Eliza Madrigal nods... maybe many purposes... some are amazing technical writers but find fiction hard, etc
Eliza Madrigal: I am open ended so can really get away from where I'm "supposed to be" when writing ;-)

Eliza Madrigal: Zon we're taking longer pauses today... so will be quiet soon til 1:20 pm
Zon Kwan: nods
Eliza Madrigal: :)

--BELL--

Catrinamonblue Resident: I've always just gone were the word seem to go, sometimes it's poetic and sometimes it's dribble :)
Eliza Madrigal: >ding<
Eliza Madrigal: :)

Eliza Madrigal: Hello Aggers :)
Agatha Macbeth: Dong
Agatha Macbeth: G'day :)
Zon Kwan: hi agatha
Eliza Madrigal: how was the pause for everyone?
Agatha Macbeth: Quiet
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Kori :)
Agatha Macbeth: Osiyo K
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Korel
Korel Laloix: Heya
DR42 Resident: Introspective.
Zon Kwan: hi korel
Korel Laloix smiles
Eliza Madrigal: :) glad
Eliza Madrigal: As soon as the bell rang the light outside shifted and it became very bright here
Korel Laloix: Sounds lovely.
Agatha Macbeth: Nice walls

Eliza Madrigal: Bleu captured this from a tea house scene... really like it
Agatha Macbeth: Bleu strikes again
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Kori we'll take a longer pause at the next bell...for five minutes instead of 90 seconds
Eliza Madrigal: hah, yes
Korel Laloix: OK.
Korel Laloix: Tea house?
Eliza Madrigal: from one of muso sozeki's gardens
Agatha Macbeth: Aha
Eliza Madrigal: a you tube video called Dream Window - hana introduced us
Eliza Madrigal: she has studied Muso - translating, etc
Eliza Madrigal: appropriate to dream theme maybe :)

Eliza Madrigal: considering introspection... always liked the verses about shining light inward, searchlight heart, etc
Eliza Madrigal: my Meme used to sing "this little light of mine..."
Agatha Macbeth: Mmm
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Zon Kwan: im gonna let it shine
Eliza Madrigal: yes !
Catrinamonblue Resident: sometimes our light gets snuffed out
Eliza Madrigal: I remember thinking, "what light" - and then... staying with that a second, thinking, "Oh, that one"
Catrinamonblue Resident: and we have to restart it
Eliza Madrigal: over and over again Cat?
Catrinamonblue Resident: sometimes yes
Zon Kwan: waves

Catrinamonblue Resident: rediscovering ourselves
Eliza Madrigal: excavating the light

Catrinamonblue Resident: (thinks I'm getting used to Zon and his disappearing)
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Eliza Madrigal: yeah... once it isn't personal it is okay
Eliza Madrigal: I giggle each time though
Agatha Macbeth: Now you see him now you don't
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Eliza Madrigal: at least he checks in I guess

Eliza Madrigal: nearing the next bell :) maybe "light" is a nice focus

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: One torch (or lantern) can dissipate the accumulated darkness of a thousand aeons. Tilopa
Eliza Madrigal: >ding< :)
Wol Euler: _/|\_

Eliza Madrigal: Hello Wol :)
Agatha Macbeth: Hello Wollie
Wol Euler: evening all! sorry I'm late
Agatha Macbeth: Bearing up?
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Wol Euler groans

Catrinamonblue Resident: One therapist once told me that I was the keepeer of my happiness and I always had the image of myself traveling down a dark path with an old fashion lamp looking for happiness
Agatha Macbeth: But did you find it?

DR42 Resident: Gray, blah, not the nice day that yesterday was. Why does the world have so much pain and suffering? It's far more than karma. How can someone live with the loss of a child? Can they ever be happy again? I can only have great compassion for them. --- There is quite a bit of light in my life. Do I deserve so much? I have had a difficult road to walk but I have been able to survive. I have so many good people around me. How can I repay all the kindness I have been shown?

I seek a way to shut out the nasty people, but they are so pervasive, it is almost impossible, I want to build a thick wall to exclude them. But that, in itself, is futile. Open your heart, welcome them in, and treat them with kindness and compassion.

Eliza Madrigal reading... considering...
Catrinamonblue Resident: yes Maude, kindness and compassion are needed when those we love hurt us
Catrinamonblue Resident: sometimes they travel a dark road and need our light
DR42 Resident: Not just those we love, but people who don't even know us. People filled with fear and hate.
Catrinamonblue Resident: nods
Wol Euler nods.
Catrinamonblue Resident: for me right now it's very close and personal so that's were I talk from
Eliza Madrigal: the image of a dark path with a lamplight is quite stirring.. especially in times of questioning or confusion
Catrinamonblue Resident: smiles sadly
Catrinamonblue Resident: so much questing right now for me
Eliza Madrigal: sometimes we throw ourselves into that confusion for empathy's sake too
Eliza Madrigal: and can't tell whether its our own or someone else's... maybe it doesn't matter?

Wol Euler: second-hand confusion :)
Eliza Madrigal: :) well, love
Catrinamonblue Resident: yes I can see that
Catrinamonblue Resident: sometimes do we take on others darkness?
Catrinamonblue Resident: in wanting to help them?
Catrinamonblue Resident: do we hurt ourselves in the process?
Eliza Madrigal: those boundaries are quite a question

DR42 Resident: There are a few events in my life where I imagined being in a bright white room, and there was a door that opened into total darkness. If I went out the door, it would close behind me and I would never be able to return.
Eliza Madrigal: maybe until you were ready to face something?
Eliza Madrigal: I had that sense, all my life growing up, that there was a room not to go into
Eliza Madrigal: mind room, so to speak
Eliza Madrigal: but at some point it seemed to include itself... open somehow
Catrinamonblue Resident: my mind room was the abuse, but I have looked there and found it wasn't as bad as I thought,
Wol Euler nods and listens.
Catrinamonblue Resident: the fear of looking was more than the looking

Eliza Madrigal: :) nearing next pause... let's consider a while
Eliza Madrigal: ((((( ))))))))

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: "the fear of the looking was more than the looking." -Cat
Catrinamonblue Resident: that's not to say that looking in that room was easy, it wasn't and took long years to shift through and accept all that had happened, but having been through it and on the other side I can say that the fear of looking was far greater.
Wol Euler nods.
Catrinamonblue Resident: My daughter has these animal cards like tarot cards and one that I keep drawing lately is to let go fear :)

Korel Laloix: I have always found the different way the we find to package memories and emotional memories of abuse to be so fascinating.
Eliza Madrigal: please say more Kori?
Catrinamonblue Resident: listens
Wol Euler listens.
Korel Laloix: Your ways of packaging things seems so different from mine.
Catrinamonblue Resident: can you explain Kori?
Korel Laloix: never really tried to define how I walled things off to protect my current brain from those bad expereinces.
Korel Laloix: 15 sec chat delay for me it seems.
DR42 Resident: I wrote "25 things you would never guess about me" and one of them was "I never survived a bunch of childhood abuse."
Eliza Madrigal: how interesting
Korel Laloix: I know that I dont go through my daily life thinking of what happened to me when I was little.
Korel Laloix: They are just memories that I did up and look at when I need.
Korel Laloix: But not sure how I put them aside.
Eliza Madrigal: recollections of abuse can be like recurring nightmares that come up until someone is ready to let them open into something else

Korel Laloix: So I dont know if they effect me now, or am I just feeling the legacy from the atual events in the past.
Catrinamonblue Resident: I don't think about it daily but it had an effect on how I reacted to the world and so I had to open the door in order to be able to function as a member of society
Eliza Madrigal: and even not abuse, but something that just affected one profoundly
Korel Laloix: True.. for good and bad.

DR42 Resident: The nightmare is called PTSD these days.
Eliza Madrigal: indeed
Korel Laloix: That is on my list for sure.
Eliza Madrigal: it may even be a loop about something seemingly inconsequential
Eliza Madrigal: or a reaction that is out of proportion

Eliza Madrigal: we can take normal pauses now btw :)

Korel Laloix: And I do sort of think the the ADHD drugs I was on kept me from developing real emotional memories back then... so I guess that may be another silver lining from taking them.
Korel Laloix: I remember the events, but not the fear and anger and pain as much.
Eliza Madrigal: Can I tell a story of a healing dream? Wol has heard this I think... but it is a good story of how healing can happen
Wol Euler: please do
Korel Laloix: hmmm.. interesting thought.. will have to talk with my shrink about that idea.
Korel Laloix: Sure
Eliza Madrigal: will be short about it..
Catrinamonblue Resident: I had to go through the fear and anger and pain to get through, in a way I envy you Kori
Catrinamonblue Resident: listening :)

Eliza Madrigal: so, I had recurring nightmares of large angry dogs beneath a giant avocado tree at the house I grew up in...
DR42 Resident: I don't understand any of the subtile ways my ADD meds change my thoughts.
Eliza Madrigal: for many years... coincidentally it was a spot in the yard where someone had spent time who was abusive

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: and though I didn't 'feel' any trauma about it, this kept coming up
Eliza Madrigal: (pauses)

Eliza Madrigal: when I began meditation and therapy...
Eliza Madrigal: the dream started developing more
Eliza Madrigal: and each time would have a few more aspects
Eliza Madrigal: a little more light
Eliza Madrigal: then one night I walked by the tree... no dogs there... kept walking...
Eliza Madrigal: reached the metal gate, slightly off hinge, walked outside into the street...
Wol Euler smiles.
Eliza Madrigal: three huskies...
Eliza Madrigal: were in the street - two sleeping and one awake
Eliza Madrigal: I looked into the awake one's eyes and they were my son's
Eliza Madrigal: (end)
Eliza Madrigal: dream never returned
Eliza Madrigal: one could say that spot in the yard was a kind of room I couldn't really enter before?

Wol Euler smiles broadly.
Agatha Macbeth looks at Wol's teeth

Catrinamonblue Resident: ty Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: everyone has their own tools but things like this is why I like dreamwork :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: mind rooms and lanterns :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: And to answer Aggers question way back - happiness can be found in the moments between the moments :) Yes I have found them
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Agatha Macbeth: Good
Wol Euler nods.

DR42 Resident: You are lucky.
Catrinamonblue Resident: It's not a matter of luck
Catrinamonblue Resident: as my therapist said YOU ar the key to your own happiness
Catrinamonblue Resident: it is only within you that it can be found, no outside thing can make you happy

Eliza Madrigal: all related though, don't you think?
Eliza Madrigal: inner/outer... not so clear
Eliza Madrigal: for instance we talked about weddings two days ago and last night I was asked to be a bridesmaid...weird, lol
Agatha Macbeth: Erk
Korel Laloix: Great fun.. enjoy.
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Eliza Madrigal: its your fault Kori :)
Wol Euler grins.
DR42 Resident: Lucky that you found a therapist that could help you. Many of them are not that good.
Catrinamonblue Resident: laughs
Eliza Madrigal: true Maude
Korel Laloix: Probably right... smiles
Eliza Madrigal: :)

Catrinamonblue Resident: ah yes Maude I have been lucky there
Catrinamonblue Resident: but something else she said to me was that she was only a guide I was the one who did all the hard work
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Korel Laloix: I give my shrinks homework... grins
Korel Laloix: No wonder they always think I am bossy...
Agatha Macbeth: Do you grade them?
Korel Laloix: They are getting paid enough to do a little side research on things.
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)

Eliza Madrigal: the one therapist I found helpful was also a meditator
Eliza Madrigal: he said the others in the office made fun of him because no matter what he would take that time every day
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Wol Euler: heh
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Eliza Madrigal: I think it mattered though... just in his ability to maintain a certain level of patience and listening
Korel Laloix: I have had some good shrinks I think.

Agatha Macbeth: Never understood why they are called shrinks
Eliza Madrigal: "head shrinking"
Korel Laloix: Evidently from the shrunken head idea.
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Agatha Macbeth: Still don't get it
Eliza Madrigal: :)

--BELL--

DR42 Resident: They shrink your head, like aboriginal tribes might.
Catrinamonblue Resident: wonders if there is a tape measure about to measure Aggers head ;)
Agatha Macbeth: If you can find one big enough
Eliza Madrigal: another string from earlier is that I don't think ADD meds as an adult would have same effects as with teens who are going through such morphings
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Catrinamonblue Resident: laughs
Korel Laloix: I was on those meds for eight years until I was 19... and I am sort of confident they did me some harm.. but maybe did me some good as well.
DR42 Resident: True.
Korel Laloix: Maybe saved me from bad emotional memories.
Korel Laloix: As I mentioned before.

[liberal amount of editing done - warm and interesting conversation of support]

Eliza Madrigal: funny balances to taking care of ourselves and sharing/caring with and for others
Eliza Madrigal: I always wonder if therapists are stand-in family
Catrinamonblue Resident: I think they may be Eliza
Catrinamonblue Resident: for me the good ones felt more like a sister than a therapist
Wol Euler: perhaps they are what family might be but often isn't
Korel Laloix: I have had shrinks say that there is a maximum age of a helping relationship...
Korel Laloix: After that, a therapist can not be really objective.

DR42 Resident: Sometimes I wonder how to react to people who show closeness or caring. It has been so uncommon that I never learned the skill.
Catrinamonblue Resident: Kori did they say how long that is?
Eliza Madrigal: I like how you call it a skill though - I think it really is
Korel Laloix: Accepting help with grace is a skill for sure.
Eliza Madrigal: building capacities

--BELL--

Korel Laloix: Well, the insinuation was about two years... as that was the time he found another provider for me.
DR42 Resident: It is, and making and keeping friends is a skill as well, something people learn when they are about 6 to 8 years old.
Korel Laloix: And it was a good move i think.
Catrinamonblue Resident: I think he may be right Korel because that is about the longest I have ever had a therapist and that seems to have worked well for me
Eliza Madrigal: friendships are so different too - skills have to continually adapt in a way
Eliza Madrigal: I went for a year and left before he thought it was a good idea... but about a year later the tools we'd worked on came into play :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Eliza Madrigal: <-- is on a delay, lol
Eliza Madrigal: Hugs Aggers :)
Agatha Macbeth: Bye for now, shrink well
Catrinamonblue Resident: Bye Aggers :)
Eliza Madrigal: sweet dreams
Wol Euler: bye aggers, take care
Eliza Madrigal: such a serious day today :)
Wol Euler nods.
Eliza Madrigal: but I think important to share notes on these things
Catrinamonblue Resident: It has been helpful for me today

Eliza Madrigal: would like to talk more about a lot of things that came up today...
Catrinamonblue Resident: needed to remember my lantern :)
Eliza Madrigal: karma, friendship, capacities for empathy and healing
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: I hope we will
Wol Euler: (and on a day when I have more energy :(
Eliza Madrigal: happy to hear that Cat, for me too
Korel Laloix: That does help.
Eliza Madrigal: hope your work days won't be all so long Wol
Korel Laloix: Back to RL for me now... thanks for the company and chat all.
Wol Euler: only a few more weeks :)
Eliza Madrigal: thanks Kori, bfn
Wol Euler: goodnight korel, take care
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Korel Laloix: Ciao
Eliza Madrigal: vacation soon?
Catrinamonblue Resident: Bye Kori :) hugs to you

Wol Euler: hello breezer, nice to see you again
DR42 Resident: Frizzle, frazzle, frozzle, fromme. Time for this one to go home.
Breezer Tomsen: hello all
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Breezer! ltns
Catrinamonblue Resident: :) Bye Maude
Eliza Madrigal: Okay Maude...
Eliza Madrigal: thanks for being here , hugs
Wol Euler: I should go too, else I will just sit here listening and vegetating all night
Eliza Madrigal grins
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
DR42 Resident: I like it today.
Wol Euler: big hugs to all, thank you and goodnight
DR42 Resident: Bye'
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Eliza Madrigal: bye

Eliza Madrigal: I'll have to leave soon but not just yet
Eliza Madrigal: how've you been breezer?
Catrinamonblue Resident: I have no kids home tonight so have time to spare :)
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Breezer Tomsen: okey eliza
Eliza Madrigal: summer
Breezer Tomsen: and how about you?
Eliza Madrigal: fairly well lately thank you :)
Breezer Tomsen: ok nice :-)
Eliza Madrigal: we've been doing a few new things around here - how do you like the setting?
Breezer Tomsen: yess i see, looks nice
Breezer Tomsen: bit zen like :-)
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)

Eliza Madrigal: it is... captured from an image of a Kyoto garden
Eliza Madrigal: or, I think it is Kyoto
Breezer Tomsen: are we gonna practice some koans ? :-)
Eliza Madrigal: have some for us?
Breezer Tomsen: haha lol, i know two
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Catrinamonblue Resident: listens

Breezer Tomsen: how does the sound of one clapping hand sound like...?

Breezer Tomsen: and if a tree falls in the forrest and there is no one to listen does the tree make sound when he falls....
Breezer Tomsen: ?
Eliza Madrigal smiles... certainly those questions quiet and open the mind
Breezer Tomsen: weird zen stuff :-)
Eliza Madrigal: sound is such an entry
Eliza Madrigal: sound of no sound

Breezer Tomsen: i often use the zen tarot
Breezer Tomsen: are you familiar with those
Eliza Madrigal: I'm not...
Catrinamonblue Resident: no
Eliza Madrigal: tell me about them
Breezer Tomsen: oh they are very nice cards
Breezer Tomsen: inspired by osho
Breezer Tomsen: think you know him?
Eliza Madrigal: really interesting idea
Eliza Madrigal: yes.. we dance together ;-)
Eliza Madrigal smiles.. kidding..
Breezer Tomsen: haha ok :-)
Eliza Madrigal: yes

Eliza Madrigal: what do the cards contain?
Breezer Tomsen: tools to become more aware
Breezer Tomsen: they show hidden subconsiouss beliefs and conditioning
Breezer Tomsen: and lead the way
Breezer Tomsen: into the moment
Eliza Madrigal: like the way you express that
Eliza Madrigal: shining light on blind spots
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Eliza Madrigal: we actually spent much of the session talking about that in a different kind of way

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: more in the sense of places of mind that might feel sectioned off
Breezer Tomsen: http://www.osho.com/Main.cfm?Area=Ma...nguage=English if you like to try the cards
Eliza Madrigal: capacities and dimensions
Eliza Madrigal: thanks!
Breezer Tomsen: works online to
Catrinamonblue Resident: ty :)
Eliza Madrigal: ah, these are detailed
Eliza Madrigal: nice
Catrinamonblue Resident: interesting

Eliza Madrigal: Cat another topic it would be great to come back to is "our own work" - it is dawning on me that this is a very empowering thing to see
Eliza Madrigal: taking responsibility, etc
Catrinamonblue Resident: nods
Eliza Madrigal: I have to take my daughter to a babysitting gig
Catrinamonblue Resident: :) bye for now then Eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: but it was really a nice session and good to see you breezer - wish i could stay longer to catch up and pester you with more questions :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: I should go find some food for myself :)
Eliza Madrigal: :) yes, eat!
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Breezer Tomsen: I go to, see you later
Breezer Tomsen: bye bye
Eliza Madrigal: bfn, tc
Catrinamonblue Resident: bye Breezer :)