2013.06.21 01:00 - the Curate's Egg, and Master Quest

Eliza posting this wonderful talk, in tone and content, from the autolistener universe...

01:04] Wol Euler: good very-early-morning, korel :)
[01:04] Korel Laloix: Morning.
[01:04] Korel Laloix: Yes... like 3am here I think.
[01:04] Korel Laloix: grrr
[01:04] Wol Euler nods.
[01:05] Korel Laloix: The sleepies are evading me again this morning.
[01:05] Korel Laloix: How is you day going Wol?
[01:05] Wol Euler: :(

[01:05] Wol Euler: well, it just started :) I got up 12 minutes ago, and spent 10 minutes meditating
[01:05] Wol Euler: as every morning
[01:05] Wol Euler: it#s incredibly hot and sticky here already
[01:06] Korel Laloix: oo.. sounds lovely.
[01:06] Wol Euler: ha
[01:06] Wol Euler grins.
[01:06] Wol Euler: I hate it
[01:06] Wol Euler: and the older I get the less well I cope with it

[01:06] Korel Laloix: We get hot, but the humidity rarely kicks in well.
[01:06] Wol Euler: hot on its own isn't such a problem
[01:06] Korel Laloix: I know... well, I hope you can find a way to get a way from it then.
[01:07] Wol Euler: when I was in Israel a few years back, it was much hotter than this, but dry so it didn't bother me nearly as much
[01:08] Korel Laloix: I know the difference in feeling. I just like it where I have a constaint light sweet going... probably from all my running.
[01:08] Wol Euler smiles.
[01:08] Korel Laloix: And I just think I am so cold all the time so when it is hot I just love it.
[01:09] Wol Euler: that would be a difference, sure

[01:09] Korel Laloix: The summers here a actually quite lovely except for the tornadoes.
[01:09] Wol Euler laughs.

[01:09] Wol Euler: do you know the old expression "the curate's egg"?
[01:09] Korel Laloix: But I guess that gives us a little excitement maybe.. smiles
[01:10] Korel Laloix: Not heard that one, no.

[01:10] Wol Euler: scene is lunch at a rich household after the Sunday sermon
[01:10] Wol Euler: curate gets a bad boiled egg
[01:11] Wol Euler: "Oh, Mr. Jones, you have a bad egg! I'm so sorry,"
[01:11] Wol Euler: "Not all bad, Mrs. Smith, parts of it were quite good."

[01:11] Korel Laloix: OK.. I think I see where that is going.. smiles
[01:11] Wol Euler grins.
[01:12] Korel Laloix: Will have too look up curate though.
[01:12] Wol Euler: anglican church, I'm not sure of the exact rank
[01:12] Korel Laloix: I gues I like the pace and attitude here as well.
[01:12] Wol Euler: where they come in the hierarchy
[01:12] Korel Laloix: No idea about those folks.
[01:13] Wol Euler: to be honest I only know it from literature
[01:13] Korel Laloix: I am slowly learning about all the denominations.

[01:13] Wol Euler: many curates in the 18 and 19th centuries were scientists and authors
[01:13] Wol Euler: because they had more time than duties to perform
[01:13] Korel Laloix: Oh OK.
[01:14] Korel Laloix: Sounds like an interseting position... maybe like a deacon?
[01:14] Wol Euler nods.
[01:14] Wol Euler: it was a fairly low rank
[01:14] Wol Euler: perhaps they were like an assistant priest, attached to a larger church
[01:14] Korel Laloix: Growing up not culturally Christian gives me some strange absences of background sometimes in discussions... smiles
[01:14] Wol Euler: so they didn't have the caring-for-public duties
[01:16] Korel Laloix: Will have to look that up.
[01:17] Korel Laloix: I want to read more about church history, but not had the time to really hit that yet.

[01:17] Wol Euler: you may well find that I am entirely wrong about it :)
[01:17] Korel Laloix smiles
[01:17] Korel Laloix: It is such a rich field of knowledge though..
[01:17] Wol Euler nods.
[01:17] Korel Laloix: Always good to learn knew stuff.
[01:17] Wol Euler: absolutely!
[01:18] Wol Euler: even if you don't think there is a use for it

[01:18] Korel Laloix: I guess I am a bit lucky starting from a clean slate as they say.
[01:18] Korel Laloix: Good to look at things fresh the first time as an adult.

[01:18] Wol Euler: yes, you get to make choices about things that many people were taught from age zero on
[01:19] Wol Euler: those are very hard to reconsider

[01:19] Korel Laloix: I think it is more in how it is presented.
[01:19] Korel Laloix: But I am not sure about that.
[01:19] Wol Euler: say more?

[01:20] Korel Laloix: Well, I know a lot of people that were brought up in a particular denomination but moved to something very different
[01:20] Korel Laloix: Or people that just stopped doing anything faithish... if that is a word.
[01:21] Korel Laloix: My friend Fatima is in the process of abandoning Islam and that is hard to watch.
[01:21] Wol Euler nods
[01:22] Korel Laloix: And there are a few exChristian Buddhists in here.

[01:23] Korel Laloix: And just thinking back, when I was going through my search after I decided to abandon my mother's version of Atheism, it seems the people I met from each faith I explored were mainly converts.
[01:23] Korel Laloix: So some good and some bad there I guess.
[01:23] Wol Euler smiles.
[01:23] Korel Laloix: Something I have never really thought of in those terms.

[01:23] Wol Euler: as in everything and everyone :)
[01:24] Korel Laloix: And I am not sure if that was good or bad.
[01:24] Wol Euler: I think that many may be rejecting the way they were taught - forced to believe - as much as the content of what they were taught
[01:24] Wol Euler: starting again by their own choices

[01:25] Korel Laloix: Not sure you can force someone to believe.. but it is a common practice... just look at my university experience.
[01:25] Korel Laloix: Lot's of forced brainwashing there.
[01:25] Wol Euler: you can certainly make children believe - and yes, exactly
[01:27] Korel Laloix: It was just interesting to me looking back... I think I will take a look at my jourals from around then and looks at my thoughts.
[01:28] Korel Laloix: i went around to various faith houses looking for information, it was sort of a scavenger hunt... lol
[01:28] Korel Laloix: Some akward moments, but some good things as well.
[01:28] Wol Euler: heheh
[01:28] Wol Euler: or a quest
[01:28] Wol Euler: the search for the prize
[01:29] Wol Euler: with the many false turns and false prizes
[01:29] Wol Euler: or say perhaps "not appropriate to you" rather than false

[01:29] Korel Laloix: At the time, i was looking for something to validate they way i thought... so I would not use the word quest I dont' think.
[01:29] Korel Laloix: I was not looking for a real expression of something like god in the world.
[01:31] Wol Euler listens.
[01:31] Korel Laloix: I was looking for a religion that met my desires... approaching it from the wrong way
[01:32] Korel Laloix: So I had the wrong attitude about it at first.
[01:32] Wol Euler: how did it change?
[01:32] Korel Laloix: Oddly enough, listing to people in SL... I used to grieve religious sims.
[01:33] Wol Euler smiles.
[01:33] Korel Laloix: And I was still doing that during my search.
[01:33] Korel Laloix: A very odd time in my life.. very disorganized in my mind looking back.
[01:33] Wol Euler remembers Saul / Paul and smiles.
[01:33] Korel Laloix: I would really consider myself mental ill back then.
[01:34] Wol Euler: huh
[01:34] Korel Laloix: It was not pretty.

[01:34] Korel Laloix: But it was interesting... looking back at my attitudes and how the various places recived me.
[01:35] Wol Euler listens.
[01:35] Korel Laloix: The one that was the most agressive was the Messianic Jewish synagog/chruch.
[01:35] Korel Laloix: They were ready so sign me up in about 15 seconds.. lol
[01:35] Wol Euler: heheheh
[01:36] Wol Euler: pretty much without knowing anything about you, then?
[01:36] Korel Laloix: They gave me some stuff to read and asked if they could call me back.
[01:37] Korel Laloix: I declined.. lol... the thing is, that I did not understand what that was.. I thought it was just like a regular Jewish thing, I did not understand their view of the Messiah.
[01:37] Korel Laloix: I have to say going to the Mosque felt like showing up a t frat house party.
[01:37] Wol Euler: ha!
[01:38] Korel Laloix: It felt like I was being sized up for breeding potential from the start.
[01:38] Korel Laloix: But they gave me Koran and some coupons for local resteraunts.... smiles
[01:38] Wol Euler smiles.
[01:38] Korel Laloix: Mormons sat down and chatted with me a bit and gave me a clif notes version of the BoMormon.
[01:39] Korel Laloix: The Buddhist were really bad though. Did not have a good expereince with them until I met some her at PaB.
[01:40] Wol Euler: why was that?

[01:40] Korel Laloix: The first place I went into tried to ignore me which is the wrong thing to do with me.. and then they offered to sell me a book.. which I did buy.. no offers of help or antying.
[01:41] Wol Euler nods.
[01:41] Korel Laloix: The secone one I went to was a bit more blantent, i was trying to get some information with little luck, but as soon as this white girl came in they were all over her.
[01:41] Korel Laloix: So you can imagine my impression.
[01:41] Wol Euler: ha
[01:41] Wol Euler: indeed
[01:42] Korel Laloix: SO that was very negative.

[01:42] Korel Laloix: The first time I actually sat foot in a church though was very different.
[01:43] Korel Laloix: Very much a day that changed my life....
[01:43] Korel Laloix: Very odd memories for sure, but great ones.
[01:43] Wol Euler listens.

[01:44] Korel Laloix: Was just a complete shattering off all the crap my mom had pounded into my head.
[01:44] Wol Euler nods.
[01:44] Wol Euler: a worthy task!
[01:44] Wol Euler: and a difficult one
[01:44] Korel Laloix: Lively, reverent, open, warm, diverse, and a general feeling of comfort.
[01:46] Wol Euler: oh, I see, I misunderstood
[01:46] Wol Euler: very good :)
[01:47] Korel Laloix: I had a hard tiem going into the building, but when I did, it was a realy eye opener.
[01:47] Wol Euler smiles.
[01:47] Korel Laloix: I had only ever been in churches in SL, so it was strange walking into a physical one.
[01:47] Wol Euler: heheh

[01:48] Wol Euler: how did you find that? did SL prepare you for RL places?
[01:48] Korel Laloix: Not at all.. lol
[01:48] Korel Laloix: There was a line of greeters.
[01:48] Korel Laloix: And the band was playing rather loud sort of rock praise music.
[01:49] Korel Laloix: MCC is very not-straight, so all the rainbow stuff all over the place.
[01:49] Wol Euler smiles.

[01:50] Korel Laloix: Then I the vicar came up and chatted for a sec on her way up the isle.
[01:50] Korel Laloix: I melted.
[01:50] Wol Euler: awwww :)
[01:51] Korel Laloix: And Rev Phyllis is rather hot.. that helped... grins
[01:51] Wol Euler laughs.

[01:52] Korel Laloix: So that was my enlightenment moment.
[01:52] Wol Euler: nice

[01:52] Korel Laloix: I asked Christ into my life without really knowing what that meant.
[01:53] Korel Laloix: And started another rather peculiar phase in my rather disjointed life.
[01:53] Wol Euler smiles.
[01:54] Korel Laloix: one of the funniest things though was that I had my moment in a church with a lesbian vicar and i actually thought I would wake up straight the next day... lol
[01:54] Wol Euler laughs.
[01:54] Wol Euler: what a disappointment! heheh
[01:54] Korel Laloix: My understanding was soooooooo out of wack.
[01:54] Korel Laloix: It was funny.
[01:54] Wol Euler nods.

[01:55] Korel Laloix: I am emotionally attached to being les like some are.... It is what it is, and sometimes it is painful, or at least inconvenient.
[01:55] Wol Euler: it seems to have been a good change, good for you, and I'm glad you found it
[01:55] Korel Laloix: I am NOT
[01:55] Wol Euler nods.
[01:56] Korel Laloix: It was...
[01:56] Korel Laloix: It instantly set me free from some things.
[01:56] Korel Laloix: And really loosened the hold of others.
[01:56] Korel Laloix: It was a very liberating experience for me.
[01:57] Wol Euler smiles.

[01:58] Korel Laloix: How about you?.. any good faith journey insights or stories you care to share?
[01:58] Wol Euler ponders.
[01:58] Wol Euler: not really, no such flash-of-light moments

[01:58] Wol Euler: I was thinking as you spoke, wondering what I do believe
[01:59] Wol Euler: I find much support in many beliefs, and am surprised by the similarities
[02:00] Wol Euler: there are differences too, of course, and not all are good

[02:01] Korel Laloix: Yes... comparing things was and still is interesting.

[02:02] Wol Euler: we were raised as "benign atheists", I would call it, not the kind that need to shout down religions
[02:02] Wol Euler: we were definitely taught that other people have other beliefs, and that it's perfectly fine for them to do so
[02:03] Korel Laloix: My mother was much more hostile than that.
[02:03] Wol Euler nods.
[02:03] Wol Euler: many are
[02:03] Korel Laloix: Especially to Jews.
[02:03] Wol Euler: sadly

[02:03] Wol Euler: christianity was the basis of that, but a non-practicing kind
[02:04] Wol Euler: I read the bible in school, and mom was constantly quoting from it or referring to it
[02:04] Korel Laloix: Lots of good stuff now that I understand it.
[02:04] Wol Euler: as a collection of great wisdom stories, about what people are like and what the world is like

[02:05] Wol Euler: I liked the gentler, more thoughtful parts: Ecclesiastes, Ruth, Song of Solomon ...
[02:05] Wol Euler: ecclesiastes is probably the root of what I believe
[02:06] Wol Euler: and finding that same thought in Buddhism and in the Tao was fascinating to me

[02:06] Korel Laloix: I am still reading and understanding.. I like the book of James...
[02:06] Korel Laloix: I have a copy of the book of James with a forward by the Dali Lama.. smiles.. fun read.
[02:06] Wol Euler: to be honest, I know the Old Testament much better tahn the New
[02:07] Korel Laloix: Well, the NT is the heart of Christianity.. the OT is in her words, good for preaching and teaching.

[02:07] Wol Euler: I think that may have been because of the Saul / Paul thing
[02:07] Korel Laloix: But the old law is gone under the NT.. a different ear of human exsistance.
[02:07] Wol Euler: I disliiked him and distrusted him
[02:08] Korel Laloix: That is an interesting story....
[02:08] Korel Laloix: Understandable conclusion.
[02:09] Wol Euler: and so much of the NT seemed to be about Paul, that annoyed me :)
[02:09] Korel Laloix: Never thought of it that way.

[02:09] Wol Euler: I should re-read that, probably I'll see it differently now
[02:09] Korel Laloix: Will have to look...
[02:09] Korel Laloix: THe first time I read it through was interesting... had to put myself in a new mindset.
[02:10] Korel Laloix: This was before I ever came to that church.. same mindset I had to be in to read the Koran, Bagavad Git, BoM, etc
[02:10] Wol Euler nods.
[02:11] Korel Laloix: But afterwards, it was easy to get into the mind set.
[02:12] Korel Laloix: The third time I read the NT through I did so with a handbook.
[02:12] Wol Euler: ah :)
[02:12] Korel Laloix: That made it a lot more easy and I also bought a study Bible.
[02:13] Wol Euler: We read the King James Version, and most of my bibles are KJV

[02:13] Wol Euler: I liked that, I liked being forced by the language to slow down and think about what was said
[02:13] Wol Euler: like decoding a message
[02:13] Korel Laloix: There are more clear versions to me, but I guess there area lot of people that like the feel of the KJ.
[02:14] Wol Euler: that and Shakespeare and Johnson are the basis of English literature
[02:14] Wol Euler: and as I was steeped in Eng Lit, the bible was doubly important
[02:14] Korel Laloix: It is an important work for sure.
[02:16] Korel Laloix: I find some of it to be just a fun read now.
[02:16] Wol Euler smiles.
[02:16] Wol Euler: which is also fine :)
[02:16] Korel Laloix: Well, some parts of it at least.

[02:17] Wol Euler looks at the clock and sighs. I have to get going, I've got to be at work in 45 minutes
[02:17] Korel Laloix: OK.. smiles
[02:17] Korel Laloix: Thanks for the chat...
[02:17] Wol Euler: this was wonderful, thank you korel!
[02:17] Wol Euler: I hope you can get some more sleep, and that the tornadoes leave you alone
[02:18] Korel Laloix: Thanks... smiles
[02:18] Korel Laloix: Have a great day Wol.
[02:18] Korel Laloix: Ciao
[02:18] Wol Euler: you too!
[02:18] Wol Euler: ciao