2008.11.14 13:00 - Remembrance

Sorry all, wanted to get this posted though it is still in "heavy edit"...Solo

Solobill was the guardian, the comments are his.

Wol Euler: hello solo, adams

Wol Euler: wow, that is a biiiiiig tv.

Solobill Laville: Ugh...
Adams Dubrovna: Hello Wol and Bill :)
Wol Euler: planning on watching someting later on?
Solobill Laville: Hi, you two!
Solobill Laville: I wanted to...but I think it is an "owner" permissions issue
Wol Euler: do you get an error mesage?
Solobill Laville: not this time...which made me try harder
Wol Euler: :)
Solobill Laville: thought i had a chance
Adams Dubrovna: ?
Solobill Laville: to play this video with this cool new player
Solobill Laville: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyyjU8fzEYU
Wol Euler: does it play parcel media or does it have its own source?
Solobill Laville: it is 20 minutes long, but pretty great
Wol Euler: a drum solo?
Solobill Laville: well, i don't know what parcel is, so I don't know....
Solobill Laville: uh, drum solo??
Wol Euler: (sorry, had an alcoholic dinner again. Will try to control myself...)
Adams Dubrovna: :)

Solobill Laville: ahhh, I doubt I can keep up with you then... :)
Wol Euler: well, what other kind of video could be 20 minutes long?
Solobill Laville: ah! got it now...hehe
Solobill Laville: the obligatory arena rock drum solo
Wol Euler: that's the one!
Solobill Laville: :)
Solobill Laville: I thought it would be interesting to watch the video then chat about it
Solobill Laville: oh, well
Solobill Laville: It is about a woman, a neuro-scientist
Solobill Laville: who actaully studies brain function and chemistry
Solobill Laville: but then has a stroke
Wol Euler: let's give it another try then. How do you tell the screen which video to play?
Solobill Laville: :)
Wol Euler: (actually it might be easier for us all just to watch separetely in a browser...)
Solobill Laville: ah, too true, if you're willing...and interested
Adams Dubrovna can't use sound here but could see you two another time
Solobill Laville: no, let's just talk then
Solobill Laville: !
Wol Euler: ok, we can discuss it another time.
Solobill Laville nods
Solobill Laville: Maybe we can have a spot where we could have some type of multimedia just always available
Solobill Laville: anyway :)
Adams Dubrovna: maybe storm could have the pond convertable into video
Wol Euler: !

Solobill Laville: hehe
Solobill Laville: that'd be cool
Solobill Laville: so, what's up, folks?
Adams Dubrovna doesn't have much to talk about either :)
Solobill Laville: How are you feeling Adams?
Wol Euler: are you sleeping?
Adams Dubrovna: Pretty good. Thank you both for asking. I have have selpt pretty well two of the last three nights. Maybe

the ole body is settling down
Wol Euler: good!
Adams Dubrovna: Or it might just be tired
Adams Dubrovna: W'll see
Solobill Laville: :)
Adams Dubrovna: How are you two?
Solobill Laville: The body can surely drag down the rest of ya...
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Adams Dubrovna: I am finding that out
Solobill Laville: I'm ok. Weirdly fluctuating lately.
Wol Euler: oh?
Solobill Laville: It may be due to illness - family has strep.
Wol Euler: oh dear!
Adams Dubrovna: Oh, that's a drag
Solobill Laville: Amoxicillin to the rescue... :)
Wol Euler nods
Solobill Laville: But I have been a bit less patient than I usually am
Adams Dubrovna: Yes, that can happen as one gets stressed
Adams Dubrovna: I had a friend who had a theory that each school has a number of illnesses and that everytime children change schools they bring home a whole new group of illnesses
Wol Euler: my mother the teacher would agree.
Adams Dubrovna: My experience would tend to confirm the theory
Solobill Laville: I can only imagine there must be trust in that, as the virus' change
Solobill Laville: (and bacteria)
Solobill Laville: *truth in that...sheesh
Wol Euler: an amusing typo :)
Solobill Laville: some are
Adams Dubrovna: :)

Wol Euler: perhaps a truthful typo, actually.
Wol Euler: maybe that is why we like our own group and distrust other groups?
Adams Dubrovna: haha
Wol Euler: I know your germs already, they won't hurt me.
Solobill Laville: hehe
Wol Euler: (going back 150,000 years...)
Adams Dubrovna: That is one of many things :)
Adams Dubrovna: But there are good examples of mass deaths from meeting a new group
Solobill Laville: Uh, Native Americans come to mind
Wol Euler: when the Spanish introduced smallpox to the Carribbean for example
Solobill Laville: yup
Adams Dubrovna: and siphyllis
Wol Euler: ... though they claimed to have got that there :)
Adams Dubrovna: yes
Solobill Laville: Or the Flu pandemic of the early 20th century
Wol Euler: mmhmm, killed more people than WW1
Solobill Laville: yes, though perhaps less violently
Wol Euler: true. I've been reading about Passchendaele recently, because of November 11 (remembrance day)
Solobill Laville: What is Passchendaele?
Adams Dubrovna: ditto
Wol Euler: ah!
Wol Euler: WW1, one of the last major battles. The third battle of the Somme.
Wol Euler: end of 1917, start of 1918.
Wol Euler: at least half a million men died, about a quarter of whom simply disappeared. Blown to bits or drowned in the mud.
Solobill Laville shakes his head
Wol Euler: it was a significant event in my family because two of my grandmother's brothers died there.
Solobill Laville nods
Wol Euler: they were mourned at every family meeting.
Solobill Laville: English? German?
Adams Dubrovna: Some big scars
Wol Euler: English, my father is from London.
Solobill Laville nods
Wol Euler: now that you mention it, there is (compared to England and Canada) very little made of the war(s) here.
Adams Dubrovna: I can understand that
Wol Euler: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Passchendaele
Solobill Laville: Probably a bit of culturally intentional ambiguity
Solobill Laville: (Adams said it better) :)
Wol Euler: mmhmm

Adams Dubrovna: Interestingly enough November 11 also is armistace day and is celebrated as Veteran;s Day in US
Solobill Laville: yes
Wol Euler: yes, indeed. I'd forgotten that name. Do you wear poppies?
Adams Dubrovna: Hmnmm. They used to sell us cloth poppies when I was in school
Wol Euler smiles. Right.
Solobill Laville: I am not aware of that tradition
Wol Euler: oh!
Adams Dubrovna: Now Veteran's day is not a major celebration except for the veterans
Solobill Laville: That is true
Adams Dubrovna: Only state and federal workeds get the day off
Adams Dubrovna: workers
Wol Euler: "In Flanders Fields the poppies grow/between the crosses, row on row"
Wol Euler: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Flanders_Fields
Solobill Laville: I know that line
Wol Euler: yep, that is why we wear (wore) the poppy.
Solobill Laville nods

Adams Dubrovna: The Vietnam War changed attitudes in US
Wol Euler nods
Solobill Laville: Iraq isn't helping much
Adams Dubrovna: No
Solobill Laville: THough I can't speak from seeing the attitudes before Vietnam
Solobill Laville: (just a twinkle the eye back then)
Solobill Laville: ;)
Adams Dubrovna: :)
Wol Euler: heheheh
Wol Euler: I was alive but not really conscious of self or the world for much of it.
Adams Dubrovna: World War II movies (and Westerns) dominated the culture
Solobill Laville: RIght, very heroic, just cause, etc
Solobill Laville: oh, and Victorious endings
Wol Euler: mmhmm

Adams Dubrovna: yes, clear distinctions between good and bad guys
Wol Euler: which got pretty damned murky around the time of My Lai
Adams Dubrovna: yes
Wol Euler: that confused the hell out of me, actually.
Adams Dubrovna: before
Solobill Laville: DId you know that 400,000 Hmong lost there lives fighting for the US in Vietnam?
Wol Euler: I hope we said "thanks" before leaving.
Solobill Laville: I think we forgot
Solobill Laville: (thinks this a Nevember 11th discussion)
Wol Euler: a few days late...
Solobill Laville: just a few days late :)
Solobill Laville: WOl!
Adams Dubrovna: The losses have been hidden from us
Wol Euler: snap
Solobill Laville: yes they have, Adams
Adams Dubrovna: no coffins, no burials
Wol Euler: and the little side wars too. Like the special ops squads inside Iran now.
Adams Dubrovna: Then there are the number of Iraqi dead
Wol Euler: or nixon bombing cambodia.
Adams Dubrovna: and the resulting mass murders
Adams Dubrovna wonders if he will sleep tonight
Solobill Laville: Rats

Wol Euler: oh dear. that wasn't the purpose...

Solobill Laville: Wow, that was interesting - a runner
Adams Dubrovna wonders if anyone noticed the losing VP candidate trying to organize her party's governors into a new government
Wol Euler speaks firmly and with confidence: Barack Obama will end that.
Solobill Laville: ?
Wol Euler: oooh

Adams Dubrovna: The Florida press conference
Solobill Laville: I don't even know what that means
Adams Dubrovna: Palin had her first press conference in Florida with a large group of Republican governor's behind her and said that they would provide the leadership because those in Washington were too weak to lead
Solobill Laville: Uhhhhh
Solobill Laville: ok
Wol Euler: treason. Arrest them.
Wol Euler: let's not fuck about.
Wol Euler: (pardon my french)
Solobill Laville: :)
Adams Dubrovna picking himself up
Solobill Laville: I don't think Palin recalls how the Federal Government functions
Adams Dubrovna: recalls or learned?
Wol Euler: I very much doubt that she knows.
Adams Dubrovna: She knows her Machiavelli
Solobill Laville: Uh, State Governors have not much power
Wol Euler: eats it on toast every night.
Adams Dubrovna: :)
Solobill Laville: Just being nice :)
Solobill Laville wonders why
Adams Dubrovna: Bill?
Solobill Laville: yes?
Adams Dubrovna: haha. who is being nice?
Solobill Laville: oh, yes...good point...
Wol Euler: hehehehe
Solobill Laville: nice-ish
Solobill Laville: (not really)
Wol Euler: actually, solo, I was somewhat shocked by your questions about my intention in being at PaB (in the Intentionality page)

I briefly misunderstood Wol here.

Solobill Laville: I don't recall naming anyone, Ms. Euler...
Wol Euler: shocked as in "jerked into a new awareness"
Wol Euler: because I have no idea, truly not the faintest, what my intention in being here is.
Solobill Laville: Intentionality isn't associated with a goal
Solobill Laville: It can be, but not necessarily required, nor good
Solobill Laville: Oh, I get it, sorry....a bit foggy here (reading back)
Wol Euler: it did make me wonder, as Robert Plant said.
Wol Euler: I think I'm here for the chat, to be quite honest.
Solobill Laville: Does the chat affect the RL typist?
Wol Euler: oh yes, definitely.
Solobill Laville: And does that precipitate more chat?
Wol Euler: so why do I immediately start a reply with "but"? hmmmm
Solobill Laville: good question
Wol Euler: eeeeeeenterestingk.
Solobill Laville: yup

Solobill Laville: I didn't expect much feedback from that little essay
Wol Euler: I am sometimes quite painfully aware that I am one of the light-weight members of the group.
Solobill Laville: So, thank!
Solobill Laville: *s
Wol Euler: I seldom have any thing to say about the actual practices.
Wol Euler: yw, thanks for making me think.
Solobill Laville: The practices are just a tool
Solobill Laville: And you add much to these talks
Adams Dubrovna: Wol, I don;t think you are one of the light-weight members of the group
Solobill Laville was trying to figure out what that term might actually mean
Solobill Laville and can't come up with it
Wol Euler: it seems to me that I am always leading us off at tangents, putting in jokes and odd quotes.

Wol Euler: there is a difference in quality and quantity between Stim's contributions and mine, for instance.

Solobill Laville: The practices are just a tool

Wol Euler: true
Wol Euler: (to solo)
Solobill Laville: The outcomes and tastes and experiences are always of value to share
Solobill Laville: You have shared some of those with me
Solobill Laville: :)
Solobill Laville: That is VALUE
Solobill Laville: To all
Adams Dubrovna: yes!
Wol Euler smiles. thank you.
Solobill Laville: Adams, of course, has done that as well
Wol Euler: yes, both of you.
Wol Euler: well, I wonder what I meant then?
Solobill Laville: How so?

Wol Euler struggles to figure it out.
Adams Dubrovna: There are times when someone has something important to share or relate and we all listen respectfully. There are other times when no one has anything they aprticularly want to relate and then conversation seems to get silly
Adams Dubrovna: I think they are two different times
Adams Dubrovna: You hvae made helpful comments to me when I have talked about my experiences
Adams Dubrovna: My experiences are directly related to some of the exercies
Adams Dubrovna: They add a great deal
Wol Euler smiles and nods. It was my pleasure, Adams; but _I_ was responding to you not to the exercises.
Adams Dubrovna: I know, I was giving a hint :)
Wol Euler: ah :)
Solobill Laville: hehe
Wol Euler: sorry, too much alcohol in the blood for hinting tonight.
Adams Dubrovna: :)
Solobill Laville: The hints need to be as strong as the brandy
Wol Euler: yes!
Adams Dubrovna: the exercises won't hurt you :)
Adams Dubrovna: :)

Wol Euler: it's odd, I feel that I have overcome much of my early doubt and resistance, but I still don't do them well or often.
Solobill Laville: Then do something else. just do :)
Adams Dubrovna: Doing them well is not necessary as you will see ihn my blog
Wol Euler nods at Solo.
Adams Dubrovna: I haven;t made any sense of the APAPB exercise but whehn it do it I get results
Wol Euler nods at Adams too.
Adams Dubrovna: even though I do it terribly
Wol Euler: well, thank you both for that. Maybe I'll see this differently in a few weeks, I am in a pretty grey state at the moment anyway. Even allowing for the schnapps

Adams Dubrovna: But puleeeese don't stop coming :)
Wol Euler: oh no!

Wol Euler: I shall just continue to have a vague guilty conscience as I do.
Wol Euler: and I shall definitely continue to shoout
Wol Euler: onigokko
Solobill Laville: There she goes again :)
Adams Dubrovna: That should mix up the liquor :)
Wol Euler: stop
Solobill Laville: and here I am unprepared again
Wol Euler: awwwww
Wol Euler: it's funny how strong hte emotional effect of SL is ...
Adams Dubrovna: yes
Solobill Laville: But SL is just the "thingy"
Wol Euler: true, it is US not SL
Solobill Laville: the emotional effect is the interplay between people
Wol Euler: but I have tried plain-text chat before, it didn't have anywhere near this strong an effect.
Solobill Laville: the outcome of the interplay
Solobill Laville: That's cause you can see us, silly
Solobill Laville: :)
Wol Euler: true.

Adams Dubrovna: We can let parts of our personality loose in our avatars
Solobill Laville: And we change...
Wol Euler: and it's odd that I do see "neela" whether I am looking at a horse or a woman
Solobill Laville: You are both very different from when I met you ;)
Adams Dubrovna: a horse now?
Wol Euler: pegasus, this morning
Adams Dubrovna: ah
Wol Euler: ah, solo. interesting.
Adams Dubrovna: Yes, interesting
Solobill Laville: eeenterestingk
Wol Euler: well, adams _is_ new of course!
Adams Dubrovna: a new Adams
Wol Euler: that too, solo :)
Solobill Laville: I remember meeting Adams the first time....
Adams Dubrovna: Oh?
Solobill Laville: uh huh
Adams Dubrovna: Trying to remember back.....
Solobill Laville: You were with Delani (who I was meeting for the first time) at the Tea House
Adams Dubrovna: I remember you talking about a retreat once
Solobill Laville: you were sitting silently on the porch
Adams Dubrovna: Maybe my first session
Solobill Laville: maybe
Solobill Laville: She was your caretaker, as I recall, that day
Solobill Laville: :)
Wol Euler: :)
Adams Dubrovna: hmmm
Solobill Laville: As in, she introduced you
Solobill Laville: And brought you, (I think I recall that correctly)
Adams Dubrovna: ah, that may have been my second session. Delani was at each
Adams Dubrovna: No I brought myself

Solobill Laville nods
Solobill Laville: And for Wol...hmmmm
Wol Euler raises an eyebrow
Solobill Laville: Again PaB
Solobill Laville: Either we had both been in attendance once or twice
Solobill Laville: Or it was at the session where we ended talking about archetecture
Wol Euler smiles as she remembers.
Wol Euler: I think you met my alt first, actually. I also remember feeling vaguely uneasy when Wol met you after he stopped coming, as though I was being somehow underhanded.
Solobill Laville: Yes, but didn't know that until MUCH later ;)
Adams Dubrovna had one of those sessions where he felt underhanded
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Wol Euler: and I wondered whether I should have introduced myself more completely :)
Wol Euler: but it has always been my typist's habit to keep the alts separate.
Solobill Laville: I recall putting it together../ ;)
Solobill Laville: (For Adams that is)
Adams Dubrovna: Ah
Solobill Laville: It is all just SL... :)
Adams Dubrovna: When I started it took me a long time to figure out who was who, there seemed to be so many people

Adams Dubrovna: to sort out
Wol Euler: well like joining any group, really :) RL is like that for me too
Adams Dubrovna: yes, of course

Adams Dubrovna: but it was important part of my experience here
Solobill Laville: Pretty amazing stuff :)
Solobill Laville: To the cafe?
Wol Euler: yes, lets.
Solobill Laville: Buy you drink Adams?
Wol Euler: adams, can you stay?
Solobill Laville: It is tradition
Adams Dubrovna: I think I better get back to work. It has been good seeing you. A tradition?
Solobill Laville: (note, I've dressed up a bit to be able to hang with Wol)
Wol Euler: oooh!
Adams Dubrovna: :)
Wol Euler: I am flattered.
Solobill Laville: Friday afternoons, PaB - then the bar
Wol Euler: yep!
Solobill Laville: :)
Adams Dubrovna: I have to pass. I stayed on at work to try to expedite this project
Solobill Laville nods
Adams Dubrovna: Been good talking to you
Solobill Laville: Good luck with the project, Adams
Wol Euler: ah, pity.
Adams Dubrovna: thanks, it is going well right now
Wol Euler: take care, adams, hope to see you on the weekend. But not too early!
Solobill Laville: Excellent
Adams Dubrovna: I'll be around over the weekend :)
Wol Euler smiles
Adams Dubrovna: bye then :)
Wol Euler: goodnight adams.
Solobill Laville: See you Adams
Adams Dubrovna: good night all :)