2008.11.24 07:00 - Changes and Emotions

The guardian on call today was Becka Finesmith. All the comments are my own.

Present where the following people who all agreed to their names appearing:

Pema
Becka
Fael
Umbriel
Adelene
Genesis
Caledonia
Sonic
Corvuscura

And new arrivals :

archr (I IM'd to say what the group was about)
Jorahn (Pema IM'd to say what the group was about)

A new arrival came.. then promptly left after splashing in the fountain for a while :

Becka Finesmith: Hello Wino
Becka Finesmith: Your feet are getting wet :(

Becka Finesmith: Hi Pema
Fael Illyar: Hi Pema, Becka :)
Pema Pera: Hi Becka!
Pema Pera: And Hi Adelene, Fael!
Becka Finesmith: Hi Adelene and Fael
Becka Finesmith: Your wings are very bright today Fael - Is it a good day?
Fael Illyar: aren't they that usually?
Becka Finesmith: Not as bright as today
Becka Finesmith: :)
Fael Illyar: perhaps it's the color, I can't recall doing anything unusual.
Becka Finesmith: They look lovely
Fael Illyar smiles 'Thank you.'
Pema Pera: our eyes are more sensitive for green than for red :)
Becka Finesmith nods
Fael Illyar: Hi U :)
Becka Finesmith: I think I'm on sunset too so maybe that makes a difference
Pema Pera: Hi Umbriel!
Fael Illyar: they certainly look brighter against dark background :)
Fael Illyar: ... or wait, perhaps not :)
Fael Illyar: the glow effect does strange things here.
Becka Finesmith: Hi Umbriel
Becka Finesmith: Well, it looks really good. Perhaps it glows to match your mood :)
Umbriel Levenque: Peace and Love

Some discussion about the nerves of the first session, lest we forget.

Pema Pera: This is Becka's first session in which she is the main guardian!
Becka Finesmith eeps.
Pema Pera: hahaha
Umbriel Levenque: ^_^
Adelene Dawner: ^.^
Pema Pera: ^^
Fael Illyar recalls being very nervous herself.
Becka Finesmith: I didn't realise it was a Gaurdians meeting either until I saw Pemas post - talk about pressure ;)
Pema Pera: :-)
Pema Pera: we'll all decompress . . .
Pema Pera: when was your first day here, Becka, a couple weeks ago or so?
Becka Finesmith: yes - I think I've been coming about 3 weeks now
Becka Finesmith: A voyage of discovery
Becka Finesmith: Sorry - getting very bad lag.
Becka Finesmith: I've learnt a lot since I started coming.

Then on to some of the Benefits of the 9 Second practice.

Becka Finesmith: My 9 second practice is getting more regular now
Becka Finesmith: though not regular enough
Becka Finesmith: It has some physical effects to such as I'm not getting as manyheadaches as I used to get (I used to get loads)
Becka Finesmith: Focus is the main change
Fael Illyar: mine seems to be returning to regular ... doesn't look like I need to change the bell sound to notice it afterall :)
Adelene Dawner: ^.^
Fael Illyar: Hi Gen :)
Umbriel Levenque: ^_^
Pema Pera: That's great to hear, Becka, that it also helps with headaches, a sign that something is really changing!
Pema Pera: Hi Gen!
Faenik: ah :)
genesis Zhangsun: Hi Fael! Hi Pema!
genesis Zhangsun: Hey all
Umbriel Levenque: Peace and Love
Becka Finesmith: Hi Gen
Pema Pera: can you say something, Becka, about the effects on viewing the world, and yourself, is there a difference that you can put into words?
genesis Zhangsun: Hi Becka
Sara Flinker is Online
Becka Finesmith: Well, I am seeing myself in a different light and quite a lot of it I don't like at the moment
Pema Pera: that's great!
Becka Finesmith: I feel I lack compassion for others and I never noticed this before
Pema Pera: that's a sign of seeing more and better
Pema Pera: more honestly
Becka Finesmith: yes. I can see myself for who I am rather then who I would like to be
Pema Pera: in some sense, yes, and then you can look beyond that, who you really are :-)
Pema Pera: a Tibetan teacher once told me that when he looks at himself, all he sees is blackness
Pema Pera: that he learned to see how much worse his mistakes and tendencies were than he ever thought
Pema Pera: and in medieval mystics you read the same
Becka Finesmith: exactly
Pema Pera: in Europe
Pema Pera: "I am the greatest sinner" say the saints :)
Umbriel Levenque: ^_^
Adelene Dawner: *ding*
Pema Pera: but that is very different from puritan or calvinistic reactions . . . . .
Becka Finesmith: we were talking about personal responsibility the other day but it also goes beyond that
Pema Pera: . . . . the next step is to realize that the you who is so flawed is what you carry around, what you have, not what you ARE
Pema Pera: yes, Becka?
Becka Finesmith: the baggage so to speak?
Becka Finesmith: The responsibility we were refferring to was the desire to control the environment we find ourselves in
Becka Finesmith: It is taking so much to try and let that go though
Fael Illyar would like to point out that the who you carry around, the flawed one, is also your own creation and that as life goes on, you keep altering it.
Becka Finesmith nods
Fael Illyar: and that, what we really are can't be changed. However, what thinks it's us is what we carry around and that can be.
Becka Finesmith: All the feelings we have such as guilt and prejudice. They aren't real and only exist because we create them in ourselves. They aren't given to us by

someone else
Fael Illyar: Hi Cal :)
Pema Pera: Morning, Cal!
genesis Zhangsun: Hi Cal
Caledonia Heron: hey there Everyone :)
Umbriel Levenque: Peace and Love
Becka Finesmith: Hi Caledonia
Fael Illyar smiles.
genesis Zhangsun: I wonder if the things we can't change about ourselves is really who we "are" or whether who we are goes beyond those things?
genesis Zhangsun: in response to Fael
Pema Pera: (Cal, Becka just told us "I can see now I'm such a goober" -- translated into Calenese :)
Caledonia Heron: [a fellow goob ... nice]
Becka Finesmith: lol - Goober
Becka Finesmith: I like that
Pema Pera still wondering what a goober is . . . mythological animal?
Caledonia Heron: slang :)
Fael Illyar: Gen, that's what was trying to say.
Becka Finesmith: For?
Becka Finesmith: for?
Adelene Dawner: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goober
Becka Finesmith: oooh Peanur
Becka Finesmith: Peanut
Pema Pera: what we are, Gen, goes beyond, ultimately, but it's interesting to look at what trying to change means . . . just seeing is often more effecting that trying to

change, and then change can happen instantly
Pema Pera: (in response to earlier)
Faenik: なるほど^^
Umbriel Levenque: Changing habits take efforts though, especially deep seated ones takes time
Pema Pera: or not . . .
Becka Finesmith: I think it has taking me time because I wasn't ready to change them
Pema Pera: yes, it takes time to get ready, it seems . . . .
Becka Finesmith: but then change happens instantly?
Fael Illyar: once you see there are things to improve, you need to spend time observing how to do it.
Pema Pera: it can, yes
Pema Pera: <- becka
Caledonia Heron: maybe it's not a "doing" Fael :) [not a wiki goober - different goober]
genesis Zhangsun: seeing into one's true nature seems like an incredibly personal thing and yet it couldn't be "personal" in the ordinary way we think about it so I just

wonder what can be seen that is not this "ordinary you" and yet is still "you"
genesis Zhangsun: sorry very convoluted

Which developed into a mini-discussion on the nature of time......

Pema Pera: if you buy into time, time has power over you. If you see through time, anything can change instantly
Becka Finesmith: But how can we find the delineation netween me and others?
Pema Pera: the you you are is not the you you think you are :-)
Becka Finesmith: Where do "I" stop and "others" begin?
Caledonia Heron: maybe we're all the same at the core Becka ... with different storylines
Pema Pera: you can learn to watch the you you thought you are
Becka Finesmith: I'm already seeing I'm not the "me" I thought I was
Pema Pera: that's where stopping comes in: as long as we run, we identify with the one we think we are
Becka Finesmith nods
Pema Pera: stopping allows more openness, to see
Pema Pera: and time and self are interwoven
Fael Illyar: Hi Sonic :)
Becka Finesmith: TIme is an interesting thing to. I spent a while thinking about that last night
Sonic Moonites: hiya!
Pema Pera: buy into time, and time leads you along with the leash of self
Becka Finesmith: Time is an intersting thing to - I took some time thinking about that last night
genesis Zhangsun: Hi Sonic
Pema Pera: buy into self, and it tells you it needs time
Becka Finesmith: Hey Sonic
Pema Pera: Hi Sonic!
Umbriel Levenque: Peace and Love
Pema Pera: Have you been here before, Sonic?
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Becka Finesmith: I was trying to see where "past" had gone and where "future" was. I realised that it is all now (I know that sounds cryptic but I have no other way to

describe it)
Sonic Moonites: yes, thanks pema
Pema Pera: thanks, Sonic, just wondering whether to give an introduction :)
Fael Illyar: Yes, the past and future only exist, as stories, in now.
Becka Finesmith: exactly
Fael Illyar: Hi Corvi :)
Pema Pera: and the now is not the now of the past-now-future line . . . .
Pema Pera: HI Corvi!!
Becka Finesmith: If I remove them, wher does the emotions given to me from past events go?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Morning, Fael.
Caledonia Heron: hi Corvi :)
Sonic Moonites: hi corvi
Umbriel Levenque: How about body/brain too in regards to changing 'habits'... does brain respond instantly? Do we really change how we talk, behave instantly

because we 'see'?
Umbriel Levenque: Peace and Love
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Sonic! Ih haven't seen you in forever... See you all
Fael Illyar: The emotions are, why do they need to come or go?
Sonic Moonites: hi corvuscorva

.... and further developed into a discussion about emotions, why we feel them and if they have any value in understanding our place and who we are.

Becka Finesmith: well, take Guilt
Becka Finesmith: what purpose does it have?
Pema Pera: The quickest approach is not to worry about the brain, Umbriel -- by making thoughts and pictures about how we think the brain works, we are likely to

slow ourselves down, putting on all kinds of brakes . . . .
Umbriel Levenque: What I mean is Pema, it's not all instant and one needs to be patient at times
Pema Pera: what purpose do you think, Becka?
Pema Pera: oh yes, no forcing, Umbriel
Pema Pera: but also not expecting it necessarily to take time
Pema Pera: leaving it open
Pema Pera: it may just drop off, instantaneously
Umbriel Levenque: yes not expecting it to be either way
Becka Finesmith: Guilts purpose? I'm not entirely sure If I looked at it without emotion
Becka Finesmith: often it forces us to see when we are being unreasonable. More often then not, it makes us feel unreasonable when we are not
Fael Illyar: Guilt is one name for how we punish ourselves.
Fael Illyar: a taught way of thinking that society uses to keep people in line.
Becka Finesmith: but som nay emotions that punish us. Why the inbalance?
Umbriel Levenque: some nay?
Becka Finesmith: So Many - Sorry
Umbriel Levenque: ah ty ^_^
Pema Pera: stopping will restore balance . . . . .
Pema Pera: . .. . asking why may not be necessary
Becka Finesmith nods
Fael Illyar: I'd think at the core guilt is the same as what we feel when we fail ourself, just whether we consider the one we failed to be us or someone else makes the

difference.
Becka Finesmith: Why is it I can nme so many negative emotions but so few positive ones?
Umbriel Levenque: You have lots of standards to live up to I guess...
Fael Illyar: perhaps all of them are not strictly negative.
Faenik: indeed?
Becka Finesmith: I can really only name two positive emotions - Compassion and Love. All the rest are negative
Becka Finesmith: And I don't think I have enough compassion
Umbriel Levenque: Some of them useful...
Adelene Dawner: Why diferentiate? Is positive/negative a useful divide?
Caledonia Heron: maybe there's more positive ones than come to mind immediately ... the negative ones pop up quickly
Fael Illyar: yes, but do start with yourself as a target for the compassion :)
genesis Zhangsun: and really what is "enough" compassion anyway
genesis Zhangsun: start with what you have
Becka Finesmith: Interesting Adelene. It may not be
genesis Zhangsun: not an idealized version
Panther Lefevre is Online
Caledonia Heron: agreed gen ... you have what you have ... go with that
Becka Finesmith: But why does part of me say that is not enough
Becka Finesmith: I feel desensitized often.
genesis Zhangsun: because there is always a doubting part of ourselves...don't let that override
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods, understanding.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I do too, Becka.
Fael Illyar: anger, while usually viewed as negative, does have a purpose. It's one of the emotions that can defeat fear.
genesis Zhangsun: what would be "enough" for you Becka
Occam Sorbet is Online
genesis Zhangsun: you might find that nothing is ever enough...at least this was the case for me
Becka Finesmith: I want to feel a mothers pain for her lsot son in a war
Becka Finesmith: I don't
Becka Finesmith: It's another bad news story
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods
Fael Illyar: no, seriously, you don't want to feel that. That's why you don't.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: what would it be like to feel all those bad news stories that deeply?
Caledonia Heron: maybe you are protecting yourself
Becka Finesmith: It would be awful I agree but why does it feel bad not to?
Umbriel Levenque: Sometimes yes
Corvuscorva Nightfire: you feel bad by not feeling all that that deeply?
Umbriel Levenque: But I've got to get on with my lil life too
genesis Zhangsun: I am no authority on this but what about going from attempting to feel to seeing?
Fael Illyar: it feels bad not to because you think you should.
Becka Finesmith: YEs :) And that is what the 9 seconds is doing for me
Fael Illyar: because you feel guilty for not feeling it.
Becka Finesmith: I stop
Becka Finesmith: I listen to myself
genesis Zhangsun: just because you cry when you read a news story does that mean you are really seeing reality as it is?
Faenik: could be
genesis Zhangsun: maybe you are just transferring your own bullshit into the story
genesis Zhangsun: and you have no regard for the actual people
genesis Zhangsun: you couldn't
Caledonia Heron: lol
genesis Zhangsun: I agree with Fael
Becka Finesmith: But that's what upsets me in some respects
Becka Finesmith: I should feel something for these peopl
Adelene Dawner: should why?
genesis Zhangsun: so maybe just "seeing" it is enough
Caledonia Heron: sounds like you're upset because you're not upset? :)
Becka Finesmith: Because they are suffering and I'm not
genesis Zhangsun: :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: ah
Becka Finesmith: lol - Yes Cali - Iexactly
Corvuscorva Nightfire: You are feeling survivor's guilt?
Becka Finesmith: exactly
genesis Zhangsun: will you suffering make their suffering any less?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Before we go further...
Becka Finesmith: No. It will mean nothing to them
genesis Zhangsun: if you suffer for them does that make you a better person?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I'd like to say...feeling that guilt is very normal.
Becka Finesmith: :)
Caledonia Heron: those in pain are suffering enough for all... no need to add your "expected" suffering imo
Pema Pera: we are pulled between cynicism and nihilism to protect us, and compasssion to really share, and we feel that neither are right --- because our SELF remains

in the picture ; once we learn to see and stop and drop that self, everything starts to lighten up, and we begin to see how to deal with the dilemma
Pema Pera: Hi Jorahn!
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
genesis Zhangsun: there are probably other ways you could "help" which are less obvious to you if you are attempting to suffer for them
jorahn Wunderlich: hello
Umbriel Levenque: Peace and Love
Pema Pera: come join us, Jorahn, if you like
jorahn Wunderlich: may i ask what is this
Becka Finesmith: Hi Jorahn
jorahn Wunderlich: ?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: In a way...the guilt we have for surviving what others do not can be a way of protecting ourselves too.
Pema Pera: let me tell you, Jorahn, in IM
jorahn Wunderlich: hello
Pema Pera: then the others can continue
jorahn Wunderlich: sure
Pema Pera: please take a seat!
genesis Zhangsun: hehe
Becka Finesmith: This is true - I think the lack of guilt is protecting me. I wonder if it is right though. Should I not be doing more though?
Becka Finesmith: (it's the batman)
Becka Finesmith: :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: One thing one can do is drop the idea of should to examine "what would I like to do"
genesis Zhangsun: we should all be doing more!
Becka Finesmith: Perhaps my Ego is interferring as Pema suggests
genesis Zhangsun: but not in the way we think
Becka Finesmith nods
Umbriel Levenque: Do what you want/feel comfortable doing Becka. Everyone's different....
Becka Finesmith: I think I might then use my practice this week to explore those emotions
genesis Zhangsun: :)
Umbriel Levenque: me often feels 'guilty' not becoming a Rainbow Warrior ^_^
Caledonia Heron: maybe it would resolve if you stop and drop Becka, then cataloging emotions might no be necessary
Caledonia Heron: *not
Fael Illyar: Rainbow Warrior? ... what's that?
Becka Finesmith: Yes Cale. I will see what happens with that.
Umbriel Levenque: ah... Green Peace
Becka Finesmith: I'm not worried about the planet :) One thing I can rest about
Becka Finesmith: it's the inhabitants that are in trouble
Caledonia Heron: the funny part Becka is that nothing happens
Becka Finesmith: :)
jorahn Wunderlich: excuse me i shall be in my way
jorahn Wunderlich: have a good day everyone
Umbriel Levenque: Peace and Love
Becka Finesmith: Nice to see you Jorahn
Umbriel Levenque: Enjoy your day everyone
jorahn Wunderlich: you too
Becka Finesmith: Bye Umbriel
Caledonia Heron: bye :)
Sonic Moonites: bye
Becka Finesmith: Well - thank you all for making my first GOC session easy :)
Caledonia Heron: no shortage of opinions :)
Pema Pera: important threads to follow up, Becka!
Becka Finesmith: lol - Yes.Next hurdle
Pema Pera: Thanks both for being goc (Cal's invention!) and starting a great conversation!
Pema Pera: guardian-on-call
Pema Pera: on Beck and Cal
Caledonia Heron: :)
Pema Pera: hi archr
Corvuscorva Nightfire gave you Geo's meme, in Corvi's mind..
archr Inaka: hi
Pema Pera: come join us if you like!
Becka Finesmith: hello Archr
archr Inaka: hi
Pema Pera: ah, born yesterday, welcome to SL and to our group!
genesis Zhangsun: hi Arch
archr Inaka: yeah thanx
Caledonia Heron: hey there Archr
Pema Pera: actually, I have to run, can someone explain to archr what we're doing?
archr Inaka: hi
Becka Finesmith: Any volunteers?
Caledonia Heron: this is the play as being group archr
Becka Finesmith: OK - I can do that, Archr, I'm going to tell you in IM
archr Inaka: ok
Caledonia Heron: gotta scoot - bye everyone :)
Sonic Moonites: bye caledonia
Becka Finesmith: Bye Cale
Becka Finesmith: Looks like we are breaking up - Shall we call it the end of the session?