2009.05.11 19:00 - Why is Global application of morality hard: In groups vs. Out-group

Wol Euler recovered this session from the autologging database and suggested a title. Threedee appears to have been the guardian.

buddha Nirvana: hi three:)

Threedee Shepherd: Hello buddha

buddha Nirvana: take care Eliza:)-

Threedee Shepherd: A quiet session so far. Is there something you would like to discuss

buddha Nirvana: Im pretty blank today three, i really just came to listen

buddha Nirvana: How about you, is there something youd like to address?

Threedee Shepherd: Not particularly.

Threedee Shepherd: I note that I was struck again today--for no particular reeason--how much could be accomplished to improve the daily life or current humans using approaches that are known and not overwhelmingly costly.

buddha Nirvana: Do you have any examples or solutions?

Threedee Shepherd: Availabilitry of clean water and basic sanitation.

buddha Nirvana: are you thinking close to home on this, or further afield?

Threedee Shepherd: world wide

buddha Nirvana: yes, you would have thought these things would be put in place

Threedee Shepherd: I do not think that the nature of Being or of the human condition, requires deprivation of basic aspects of living.

buddha Nirvana: when talking global, is it still fairly cheap

buddha Nirvana: i dont know the facts and figures on these issues

Threedee Shepherd: Yes. Less than is spent on war

buddha Nirvana: do you have any theories as to why people are deprived?

buddha Nirvana: there quite a few out there, some sinister

buddha Nirvana: hi corvu

Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi, buddha

Corvuscorva Nightfire: hi three

Threedee Shepherd: That is a very good question. I can say why money is spent on war, or to prop up dictatorships, or to preserve caste/status/heirarchy. But that is not a general theory.

Threedee Shepherd: Hi Corvi

buddha Nirvana: yea, perhaps its harder to say why money is'nt spent

Threedee Shepherd: Clearly, it would need to be redirected from other things, such as war, accumulation of excessive wealth, luxeries, etc.

buddha Nirvana: the human condition can be a greedy condition at times

Corvuscorva Nightfire: yes

Threedee Shepherd: yes

Threedee Shepherd: I cannot think of a major society in human hisgtory where everyone was/is provided for at a basic, equal level.

Threedee Shepherd: In fact the closest I can come is to small primative tribes/cultures such as in the Amazon Jungle or other such places, which seems ironic.

buddha Nirvana: are you a wordly person three?

Corvuscorva Nightfire: what does it mean to be worldly?

Threedee Shepherd: I am not sure what "worldyl person" means

Threedee Shepherd: I do not travel much at all

buddha Nirvana: sry, concerned with the world politics , state etc

Threedee Shepherd: I do follow world events closely

buddha Nirvana: ok

buddha Nirvana: that was a term we used in A level

buddha Nirvana: worldly religion was concerned about people in the here and now

Threedee Shepherd: Not that I can do much about them, other than contribute to the "gestalt" of those I come in contact with.

Threedee Shepherd: Yes, I am concerned with people in the here and now.

Corvuscorva Nightfire: I am too, like I am concerned that I get fed. it's important to pick up the socks between meditating, for me.

Threedee Shepherd: So, I guess I am exploring the edges of the question of relating Being and ultimate concerns to the here and now.

buddha Nirvana: concerns vary from person to person.. does that say anything about degrees of being?

Threedee Shepherd: Well, we have often talked here about transcending self and the mundane

buddha Nirvana: but often the real concerns are of a mundane nature

buddha Nirvana: thats what i would term as worldy

buddha Nirvana: like water and sanitation

Threedee Shepherd: How does worldly "fit" into Buddhist thought and philosophy?

buddha Nirvana: i think its at its heart, to be present in the here and now - to offer practical solutions to practical problems

buddha Nirvana: thats how i interpretate it

Threedee Shepherd: do others interpret it fundamentally differently than you do?

buddha Nirvana: meditation being the solution to the universal problem of the human condition

Threedee Shepherd: is there an intent that meditation should lead to action, at least sometimes

buddha Nirvana: there are various divisions, yes. you get your aforementioned approaches, but also abstract practices (in my opinion) which stems from a preoccupation with the unseen

buddha Nirvana: or the unknowable

Threedee Shepherd: yes, I am positing meditation of the unknowable as one way of being and "mundane action" as another. I wonder how often they come together in the same person?

buddha Nirvana: yea, very much so in the meditation a practice -- vipassana. it allows you to be present in the moment so you can be as active and useful as possible in day to day life.

Threedee Shepherd: It is often not understood that way by non-Buddhist "westerners"

buddha Nirvana: i think youd have to look at various techniques, you would find that there are techniques that fall either side of the divide

buddha Nirvana: yes, the perhaps percieved view id of a guru in some trance, otherworldy state

buddha Nirvana: that exists

Threedee Shepherd: So let's come back to your question of a while ago:

Threedee Shepherd: [19:18] buddha Nirvana: do you have any theories as to why people are deprived?

Threedee Shepherd: I wonder if there IS a general "answer" or just lots of smaller, local, situational ones?

buddha Nirvana: i think that would be it yes

buddha Nirvana: but from the standpoint of what is immediate to you, and around you

buddha Nirvana: thats worldly

Threedee Shepherd: Given that "some are deprived" seems a constant throughout known history, I wonder if it can ever be otherwise?

buddha Nirvana: to answer on a personal level i would be more inclined on how i could help miss blogs next door when she runs out of milk

buddha Nirvana: to me knowing why or how there are people starving is no use to them or me

Threedee Shepherd: yes, as the saying goes, "think globally, act locally"

Corvuscorva Nightfire: perhaps...once in a while..we get to act on bigger levels

buddha Nirvana: if i am not able to acctively help them, thats an otherwordly concern

Corvuscorva Nightfire: but mostly..we get to do what is "here" and "now"

Corvuscorva Nightfire: and we do what we can, where we can do it

Corvuscorva Nightfire: instead of worrying about what we are not doing.

Corvuscorva Nightfire: hmm...

Corvuscorva Nightfire: something there sounds familiar

Corvuscorva Nightfire: like...oh..stuff you told me, Three.

buddha Nirvana: well i think thats the under belly of all moral communities

buddha Nirvana: atleast it should be

Corvuscorva Nightfire nods

buddha Nirvana: so perhaps the right question is, what can you do to help your neighbour

buddha Nirvana: its basic but its the most important

Threedee Shepherd: Yes, and I think a good answer to that is, "ask him/her."

buddha Nirvana: yea..

buddha Nirvana: or, 'im busy at the moment watching the news;

Corvuscorva Nightfire: ha!

Threedee Shepherd: Thanks for your thoughts, buddha. I will end now and see you another time.

buddha Nirvana: thank you three:)