2010.04.25 13:00 - Perceptions and challenges

The Guardian for this meeting was Maxine Walden. The comments are by Maxine Walden.

As often occurs a theme or two gets played out in the session, often unintentionally. During this session several of us, myself, Liza, perhaps others, seemed to perceive things that were disturbing: because of a viewer problem I thought I saw Arabella's head on Storm's shoulder; Liza was disturbed by some expressions from another participant.  How we metabolize or make sense of what we perceive, whether we can let go

something received or remain in its grip, how much attention to give to these details remains an important question.

           Yakuzza Lethecus: hey liza

--BELL--
Yakuzza Lethecus: hi max
Maxine Walden: hi, Yaku and Liza
Liza Deischer: hi Yaky, Maxine
Maxine Walden: Storm, how nice to see you!
Liza Deischer: hi Storm
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey storm
Storm Nordwind: Thank you Maxine! You too. :) Hi all!
Maxine Walden: How was your retreat, Storm? Probably not an easy question
Storm Nordwind: Very worthwhile. I learned a lot about many things, and about people, and places and myself. :)
Maxine Walden: couldn't have been better, I imagine
Maxine Walden: hi, Fael
Fael Illyar: Hi Storm, Maxine, Yaku, Liza :)
Storm Nordwind: Especially as I persuaded my wife to join me for the last 5 days!
Liza Deischer: hi Fael
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey fael
Maxine Walden: oh, yes, how nice that must have been
Yakuzza Lethecus: hi arch
Liza Deischer: hi Arch
Maxine Walden: hi, Arch
Storm Nordwind: I came back home for one day as I picked her up to join me... so strange...

 Here begins perceptions: Yaku's dress, Storm's impressions coming briefly out of retreat 

Liza Deischer: Yaku, are you white, or is it my viewer ?
Storm Nordwind: the impression of transparency of all the buildings...
Maxine Walden: oh, my, Storm...how interesting
Storm Nordwind: and of people running around for illusory gratification
Yakuzza Lethecus: its strange
Yakuzza Lethecus: my viewer shows me also white
Maxine Walden: hmm yes,
Yakuzza Lethecus: all i did was loggin in with viewer 2.0 before
Yakuzza Lethecus: and ten
Archmage Atlantis: Yeppers
Yakuzza Lethecus: emerald now 2
Archmage Atlantis: I am alwys sat a female here
Liza Deischer: ah, you can loose clothing when you start to use the 2.0
Maxine Walden: people and buildings transparent for Storm, Yaku white for us
Liza Deischer: I lost my hair and a shoe
Liza Deischer: :-)
Maxine Walden: oh, Liza?
Archmage Atlantis: For the want of a shoe
Maxine Walden: hmm, Arch...
Liza Deischer: well, some loose their t-shirt
Storm Nordwind is using the viewer "Storm v57.8"
Yakuzza Lethecus: i used 2.0 before i only used 2.01 for the last 2 logins
Liza Deischer: not so nice when you are in the middle of a croud :-)
Liza Deischer: okay, then I don't know
Archmage Atlantis: Being gay, I am used to being different
Liza Deischer: a viewer with a mind of his own
Yakuzza Lethecus: i am at rev 28.b
Storm Nordwind chuckles
Maxine Walden: hmmm
Liza Deischer: a lot of time arch I have no idea what you are talking about
Yakuzza Lethecus: is there still a slot open tomorrow in the meditation group liza ?
Liza Deischer: I start next week and your on the list
Archmage Atlantis: Y\That is a question that desirvew qn qn wwer
Liza Deischer: and I have room left for the Monday
Yakuzza Lethecus: good i´ll join that one thx :)
Liza Deischer: okay
Yakuzza Lethecus: for how long are you interested in meditation and practicing it ?
Liza Deischer: oh, gosh, a I think over ten years
Archmage Atlantis: YAJ
Storm Nordwind wonders whether Yak's question was about the past or the future ;)

And then Arch challenges us all with some cryptograms...

Archmage Atlantis: THAT IS AN OLD QUEARION
--BELL--
Liza Deischer: ?
Liza Deischer: hi Arisia
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey arisia
Arisia Vita: Hi all
Maxine Walden: hi, Arisia
Storm Nordwind notices the key to decoding Arch's comments is to look at his keyboard for adjacent letters - that and to know a few English idioms!
Liza Deischer: okay
Liza Deischer: thansk Storm
Yakuzza Lethecus: hi ara
Archmage Atlantis: i WILLL ATTEMPT TO FIVE YOU ALL WHAT I AEE
Liza Deischer: but I'm not English :-)
Fael Illyar: Hi Ari, Ara :)
arabella Ella: Hiya everyone!
Liza Deischer: hi Ara
Storm Nordwind: Hi Ar*
Maxine Walden: hmm, still puzzled but 'tis OK to be so...
Archmage Atlantis: U zVVUE SI UR UB QIESAA
Archmage Atlantis: sO MY NIBD TI YOUR
Fael Illyar wonders if Arch became sloppy now that people might be able to decode the mess.
Maxine Walden: (afraid I don't have the energy or perhaps the smarts to decode...
Maxine Walden: )
Liza Deischer is still not able to decode it
Storm Nordwind observes it has now gone beyond my modest decrypting abilities
Liza Deischer is not trying anymore
Storm Nordwind decides to learn Tibetan instead as an easier option
Liza Deischer: :-)
Arisia Vita: perhaps Arch wishes us to put our own meaning to his words?
Archmage Atlantis: LOOK AT MY PRFILE
Liza Deischer: maybe so, but then he can say so

...and I briefly have a viewer-triggered hallucination...

Maxine Walden: I am having this strange almost hallucination: at one angle over Storm's right shoulder is the head of Arabella. But when I change views she/her head disappears. Not sure what to make of it
arabella Ella: i hope my head is still on my shoulders somewhere Maxine!
Maxine Walden: Wondering if we are being visited by apparitions today, or just from certain perspectives...
Storm Nordwind: Appreciate the Presence of Appearance as a Presentation by Linden Lab, perhaps?
Maxine Walden: maybe so, Storm...
Liza Deischer: :_)
Liza Deischer: well she is still sitting next to me, with head and everything else :-)
arabella Ella: am so glad to hear that Lisa ... thought I was going crazy
Maxine Walden: ah, well then, must be in my viewer...sorry Ara, you not crazy, seems I am in some way
Maxine Walden: or my viewer...
Storm Nordwind: Maybe we can turn that into an APPALL acronym!

Arisia reminds us of the origin of illusion

Arisia Vita: beauty (and illusion in general) is in the eye of the beholder...
Liza Deischer: well Yaku turned black again
Liza Deischer: in my view(er) that is
Maxine Walden: indeed, Arisia...yes, we are experiencing various perceptions today...
Maxine Walden: or I am...
Arisia Vita: the eye sees, the mind perceives, the heart knows...

Arch offers more challenges

Archmage Atlantis: THE WHITE FROGS ARE SINGIN IN T EVERGLADES
Archmage Atlantis: tHH ALLIGATORS AN THE PYTHONS FIGHT
Archmage Atlantis: tIS IS REAL OUTSIDE MY WINDOW
Archmage Atlantis: a BEAAR WALKS ACROSS MY YARD
--BELL--
Archmage Atlantis: SOME INSECT ATE MY NORNING GLORYS
Fael Illyar is feeling inclined to wonder why Arch takes that to be worthy of being noted in this meeting.
Archmage Atlantis: TO BE IS TO BE
Liza Deischer: I stop wondering
Fael Illyar: especially all in caps, like yelling :)
arabella Ella: why are you shouting Arch?
arabella Ella: we can read ok
Liza Deischer: hmmmm, strange
arabella Ella: brb
Storm Nordwind: Let the bear beware Arch! :) http://www.break.com/index/house-cat...acks-bear.html

After Arch leaves Liza expresses the feeling many of us were probably having

Liza Deischer: don't know what to make of it
Maxine Walden: make of what, Liza?
Liza Deischer: Arch

And then Liza pleads for clarity, but perhaps others' agreement about the frustration in dealing with Arch, while some 'old timers' suggest dropping the frustration

Maxine Walden: hmm, Maybe at times his experience is uniquely his
Fael Illyar: He's having a stage again when he's desperate to say something but only manages to confuse people.
Storm Nordwind: Most people have a natural need to be heard, if only from time to time
Liza Deischer: well that is the problem I guess
Liza Deischer: is somebody disturbing for good reasons
Liza Deischer: or just disturbing
Liza Deischer: and if he doesn't open up
Liza Deischer: we won't know
Storm Nordwind: And what's a 'good' reason for one may not be a 'good' reason for another. I don't believe values are absolutes
Liza Deischer: I agree Storm
Liza Deischer: but that makes it complicated
Liza Deischer: because to be abel to put out personal questions, the group needs to work proparly
Fael Illyar: it's only complicated if people aren't willing to accept what reasons are good for others, even if those are not good for thm.
Liza Deischer: it is that what made me react
Liza Deischer: it can be complicated if you're in a group together and it makes you uncomfartable
Maxine Walden: Yes, it can be complex to just let something be in another's behaviour when it makes one feel uncomfortable
Storm Nordwind shrugs - "As long as we can still talk about Play as Being practice, I'm happy!" :)
Liza Deischer: but that is alos an inidividual perception
Storm Nordwind lied - he is happy all the time anyway! ;)
Maxine Walden: Storm may be modeling that playing as Being means letting go of possible disturbance as well as letting go of knowing sometimes what another is saying/meaning
Liza Deischer: maybe so am I Storm, but not everybody is called Storm
--BELL--
Maxine Walden: not sure, Liza, are you saying that it is not always easy to let things go in terms of playing as Being?
Liza Deischer: and maybe I have my play to do
Liza Deischer: my pointis that we are stil working on it, and we need a trustful environment to do so
Fael Illyar: It definitely does feel disturbing when you have no idea what the other person is speaking about :) At least... if you think you should.
Liza Deischer: I'm not a Buddha, don't expect others to be also
Yakuzza Lethecus: i constantly ask myself in how far we define our ,,buttons" ourselves and how much accepting i should be while preserving some motivation to be active but that is usually out of grasping for me
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey mick
arabella Ella: am back apologies had RL phone call
Arisia Vita: Hi Mic
Fael Illyar: Hi Mick :)
arabella Ella: Hiya Mick
Liza Deischer: You try to understand him, because he is part of the group, but it drags you away from other things that are going on as well
Mickorod Renard: Hiya
Storm Nordwind: Hi Mick
Liza Deischer: an deserves attention as well
Liza Deischer: hi Mick
Mickorod Renard: sorry a bit late
Mickorod Renard: hi Liza,,sorry i missed the area 51 too
Mickorod Renard: busy weekend
Fael Illyar: yes, he dominates your attention and you wish him to stop doing that. Even though your attention is yours to use as you will.
Liza Deischer: that's okay Mick :-)
Mickorod Renard: who's the dominating one?
Fael Illyar: he left already but Arch was here.
Storm Nordwind: Can we not make a passing attempt to understand anyone without being dragged away? Dropping the attachment we have to those feelings, we can no longer be manipulated by them
Liza Deischer: yes Fael and there is a certain undescribed measure you use to balance a group and the paritparticipants in it
Liza Deischer: and the aprticipation of the people in it
Fael Illyar: I use?
Mickorod Renard: thats an interesting point storm
Liza Deischer: true Storm
Liza Deischer: I don't deny that
Yakuzza Lethecus: i think arch gives us the opportunity to practice mindfullness in a secure realm of distraction
Yakuzza Lethecus: for me dropping and mindfullness is interchangebly
Mickorod Renard: we find similar situations in our regular liofe too
Fael Illyar: yes, he provides a chance to learn by his behauviour :)
Liza Deischer: but it is also playing on a psychological level (and we don't get past that at this period of PaB), to show your boundaries
Mickorod Renard: in a school I find I am in situations everyday where some students are trying to gain attention at the inappropriate time
Liza Deischer: I can drop everything, but I know a teachter who ones said to someone: you don't have an ego to drop
Liza Deischer: there needs to be something there inorder to do so
Liza Deischer: and to me an answer like that is actually to easy
Mickorod Renard: I think its like wearing a good waterproof coat in the rain
Fael Illyar: you don't have an ego to drop but you can think you have an ego to drop.
Mickorod Renard: you know its raining but it doesnt discomfort you from what you do
Arisia Vita: This is fascinating but I must get ready for another meeting
Arisia Vita: see you all soon I hope
Mickorod Renard: bye Arisa
Liza Deischer: that's not what I mean. Ego in terms of psychology is quite different and also very important then in terms of Buddhism or other religions
Arisia Vita: bye...
Fael Illyar: have fun Ari :)
Maxine Walden: bye Arisia, thanks for coming
Liza Deischer: bye Arisa
arabella Ella: bye Ari
Liza Deischer: you need the one to be able to do the other
Fael Illyar: if the ego just drops, then it drops... if _you_ drop it... does it really drop? since there was a you (ego) to drop it.
Liza Deischer: in other words: you need to be sane, healthy, confident to add a few things
Mickorod Renard: thats stuffed me then
Liza Deischer: to be able to drop the ego
Maxine Walden: Liza, you may be speaking about something that can feel gripping, and I certainly know that state well. Mybe important to have compassion to be able to let something gripping go...not so easy to just 'drop' in that instance, in my view
Liza Deischer: nice question Fael, and I am always in a mood to discuss that, but that is to me for the moment another level
Mickorod Renard: cant the ego be present but in a more natural form,rather than a dictorial form?
Fael Illyar: you mean dictatorial?
Liza Deischer: I feel that it is probably hard to get my drift, maybe I'm not explaining it very well, so myabe I should just drop it :-)
Mickorod Renard: yes
Mickorod Renard: he he ,,well i joined in late,,so its my fault if I am behind
--BELL--
Maxine Walden: ah, nearly the end of the hour...I have to go in a moment
Maxine Walden: seems more to talk about but then in these sessions there always is...nice to see everyone
Yakuzza Lethecus: take care max
Storm Nordwind: Bye Maxine. Lovely to see you!
Liza Deischer: bye Max
Mickorod Renard: bye max
Maxine Walden: See you all soon, I hope!
arabella Ella: bye Maxine!
Fael Illyar: well, time for me to pop out too. Have fun everyone :)
Liza Deischer: bye Fael
arabella Ella: nite Fael
Mickorod Renard: bye fael
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye feal
Storm Nordwind slips away quietly back to his lhakhang
Yakuzza Lethecus: night storm
Liza Deischer: bye Storm
Mickorod Renard: bye storm
arabella Ella: nite Storm
Storm Nordwind: Night all
--BELL--

And after several have left searching for missing pets and pub quizzes are mentioned, more challenges, perhaps

Mickorod Renard: it was a crazy day today,hunting for a missing pet rabbit
Mickorod Renard: also, I have just been to a pub quiz,the questions were so hard its doubtful I got any right answers
Liza Deischer: pub quizes, really something from the UK :-)
Mickorod Renard: yes,,usually good fun,,but tonite was frustrating
arabella Ella: pub quizzes are always frustrating i find
arabella Ella: they ask such stupid questions ... not common sense ones
Liza Deischer: I guess that is the fun :-)
Mickorod Renard: these were very dificult,,I cant really remember the questions
Liza Deischer: but I need to say, I've never been in one
Liza Deischer: we don't do pub quizes here
Mickorod Renard: what country is timbuctu in?
Mickorod Renard: thats one I know
Liza Deischer: nice question, no idea
Mickorod Renard: Mali
arabella Ella: i have no clue
arabella Ella: he he
arabella Ella: did you text anyone for the answers?
arabella Ella: i've seen ppl doing that at pub quizzes
Mickorod Renard: no,,but on a smoke break I did google on my phone for an answer
Mickorod Renard: maybe u had best edit that
Liza Deischer: :-) I guess some are pretty fanatic about it
arabella Ella: ah yes now we have inrternet on phones too ... easy way to find answers
Liza Deischer: yes, but not so easy to find an answer in the right time
Mickorod Renard: I could have cheated,,but it wouldnt give any satisfaction
Liza Deischer: a the true gamer
Mickorod Renard: :)
arabella Ella: i have seen people cheating at similar quizzes ... people you would never believe would cheat
arabella Ella: and the same people really taking it badly if the answer they found on google was considered incorrect
Liza Deischer: I guess a part of the real 'person' shows itself when under pressure of such an important event :-)
Mickorod Renard: I dont mind cheating if it is a sign of competitiveness
Mickorod Renard: like in life or death situations
--BELL--
Mickorod Renard: a quiz is as much competition on oneself as against others
Liza Deischer: nite Ara
Mickorod Renard: bye Ara
arabella Ella whispers ... good nite Liza, good nite Mick
Liza Deischer: I need to go too
Mickorod Renard: I must go home now too
Mickorod Renard: bye Liza
Liza Deischer: take your bike and go home
Mickorod Renard: sleep well
Mickorod Renard: :)
Liza Deischer: sleep well Mick :-)
Mickorod Renard: c u tommorow perhaps
Liza Deischer: eh...yes I think so, or Darren
Mickorod Renard: he he