2011.08.22 07:00 - Making Trouble a Welcome Friend

The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal. The comments are by Eliza Madrigal, joined for this interesting session by oO0Oo, FcSeeker, Dash, Bleu, Lucinda, Xirana, and Bhang...

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Luci!
Lucinda Lavender: Hi Eliza:)
Lucinda Lavender: SAmuo:)
Lucinda Lavender: Glad to see you...
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sam!
Eliza Madrigal: Wonderful to see you both
oO0Oo Resident: Hi Lucinda, Eliza.. Good to see you both
Eliza Madrigal: Made it back from hurricane shopping just in time...
Eliza Madrigal: though I'm rather sure it won't hit Miami this time
Lucinda Lavender: hurricane shopping sounds like a whirlwind experience
Eliza Madrigal: hah
Eliza Madrigal: it can be!
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Dash :)
Dash Earthboy: hey y'all
Lucinda Lavender: was there much available?
oO0Oo Resident: Hi Dash :)
Lucinda Lavender: HI Dash?
Lucinda Lavender: sorry !
Eliza Madrigal: yes it seems most people aren't in a panic so there was no ordeal
Lucinda Lavender: I do not have my glasses on yet!!
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Lucinda Lavender: putting question marks where I do not mean to
Lucinda Lavender: brb
Dash Earthboy: :)
Dash Earthboy: i'm on 4th cup of coffee myself :)
Eliza Madrigal: oh dear
Dash Earthboy: hey Fc
Eliza Madrigal: Hi FcS :)

Eliza Madrigal: I woke considering a kind of topic unless others have one.. it was sparked by a session I read from a week or two ago
FcSeeker Resident: Hello Eliza Lucinda san and Dash
oO0Oo Resident hopes that everyone rested well.. wonders if Lucinda dreamed of any swirling falls of colour..
oO0Oo Resident: Hi Fc
Lucinda Lavender: :) no that I remember:)
oO0Oo Resident: Topic .. sure.. what is it Eliza?
FcSeeker Resident: sory O
FcSeeker Resident: Hello Sam
Eliza Madrigal considers the need for a Fall tree for the pavilion... leaves fluttering through....

Lucinda Lavender: Luci is curious about your idea...
Lucinda Lavender: and if we could do a paint pour in 2L:)

Eliza Madrigal: well, in short it is: brain or mind ... alternatively called thinking or insight
Eliza Madrigal: Ah how did that go Luci? (not to change the subject) :))
Dash Earthboy: hello Bhang
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bhang :)
FcSeeker Resident: Hello Bhang
Lucinda Lavender: went well...we can talk about it later if you like:)
oO0Oo Resident: and.. hello Bhang ::smiles::
Dash Earthboy: Bhang flew away?
Lucinda Lavender: Hi Bhang:)
Eliza Madrigal: maybe just exploring the area
Dash Earthboy: yah
Lucinda Lavender: brain or mind,,,thinking or insight...
Bhang Tyran: hi
Dash Earthboy: *reminds me a little of the knowledge vs wisdom stuff
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bhang, welcome to Play as Being :)
Bhang Tyran: ty
Eliza Madrigal: yes Dash
Dash Earthboy: wb Bhang

Eliza Madrigal: Bhang, I think I remember you.... its been a while that you've visited us
FcSeeker Resident: nice outfit you have Bhang imo
Eliza Madrigal: Nice to see you
Bhang Tyran: thanks yes i like trying to catch you guys
FcSeeker Resident: <3<3<3
Eliza Madrigal: haha, please join us maybe we need a bit of trouble today
Eliza Madrigal: (if I'm not misreading your avatar)
Bhang Tyran: theres always a little trouble hanging around
Eliza Madrigal: although hm... maybe another tiny cushion is needed... let me check inventory

--BELL--

FcSeeker Resident: Hello Bleu
Bleu Oleander sneaks in quietly . . . hi all :)
oO0Oo Resident: Welcome Bleu
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bleu :)
Bhang Tyran: sweet
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Bhang Tyran: hi bleu
Bleu Oleander: nice chair for you Bhang
Bhang Tyran: aaah comfy
FcSeeker Resident: <3<3<3
Eliza Madrigal: Another guardian, Alfred, gave that to me :)) it suits you Bhang
Bhang Tyran: making trouble a welcome friend
Eliza Madrigal smiles
oO0Oo Resident: The topic of brain-mind / thinking-insight.. can you say more Eliza :)
Bhang Tyran: thank you
Eliza Madrigal: well, I was thinking that in dreaming in particular, or any kind of 'work' that one can get caught up in....
Eliza Madrigal: where there is a flow state, etc...
Eliza Madrigal: there is a clear difference between 'thinking' and insight?

Bhang Tyran: like playing improv?
Bhang Tyran: music i mean
Eliza Madrigal: yes sure, self-consciousness fealling away seems to be one aspect..

Eliza Madrigal: so I wondered about what others have noticed, and what there is to notice about that
Lucinda Lavender: hmmm pondering...

Bleu Oleander: so in flow are you thinking or having insight?
Eliza Madrigal: yes...
Bhang Tyran: its like the difference between enjoying playng a certain game or not enjoying the game

Bleu Oleander: dreaming is different than flow, don't you think?
Eliza Madrigal: forgetting the game...
Eliza Madrigal: well I wonder, there seem to be very different textures of dreaming
Eliza Madrigal: some are just loops... going over the day's events?
Lucinda Lavender: yes...

oO0Oo Resident: Wish Calvino was here, as he offers so much on such things.. my sense is that insight is a kind of product of having oriented or trained the mind in a certain way previously.. such that it reacts to a certain set of causes and conditions in a way.. almost spontaneously..

Dash Earthboy: which leaves out innate insight
Eliza Madrigal: so in the way that popular thinking now says 10 years of study go into someone who achieves a level of excellence?
Eliza Madrigal: (with a certain craft, musical, etc)
oO0Oo Resident: .. not sure.. perhaps.. perhaps training to heed an innate capacity

Lucinda Lavender: there has been for me...practising music while dreaming...yet some dreaming is random seeming too
Lucinda Lavender: images and words generated without my mental control
Lucinda Lavender: then closer to waking there are stories
Eliza Madrigal: mental engagement in a dream would be lucid?
Lucinda Lavender: lucid for me is closer to waking after the resting and jumbly stuff

Eliza Madrigal: what about with art bleu, sense of tapping in to 'something' or 'somewhere'?
Eliza Madrigal: sometimes random seeming things turn out to have been insightful but one didn't notice at the time.. so its all funny and maybe not as clear cut either/or
Lucinda Lavender: yes! and that is why I try to write them down
Eliza Madrigal: hmm
Bleu Oleander: yes, sometimes creativity comes out of no where
Eliza Madrigal: :)

Lucinda Lavender: what Samuo said earier made me think that we work on projects generally...by stages sometimes
Bleu Oleander: our minds are working all the time .... just sometimes we have conscious access

--BELL--

Dash Earthboy: Bleu: "nowhere?"
FcSeeker Resident: the genuine creativity comes always from 'no where' if has not learned to feel this kind of things with own body
FcSeeker Resident: all else is just to 'monkey'...'quote' somebody else...

Bleu Oleander: nowhere meaning not consciously "asked for"

Eliza Madrigal: (btw I turned the fountain down to see everyone so the pause cues are more subtle today)
FcSeeker Resident: can be asked also...
Bleu Oleander: oh sure often does
Bhang Tyran: ping hahaha
Lucinda Lavender: perhaps we train ourselves to attend to nowhere
Eliza Madrigal: :)) Bhang
FcSeeker Resident: that request sure is then done to one's own self still...
FcSeeker Resident: otherwise it would also be only to monkey somebody else
Bleu Oleander: there are some areas of the mind that we don't have conscious access to

FcSeeker Resident: Hello Xirana
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Xirana :) I'll give you a note
FcSeeker Resident: because we have choosed so
Bleu Oleander: hi Xirana
Xirana Oximoxi: hello everyone:)
Lucinda Lavender: Hi xirana
Bhang Tyran: hi xi
oO0Oo Resident: Hi Xirana
Xirana Oximoxi: still rezzing..I see you all in grey:)

FcSeeker Resident: and that choise we made always for truly good reason
Bhang Tyran: i think insiration and dreams come from the same unconciouse place
Bhang Tyran: they just POP into our heads
FcSeeker Resident: because 'the child' inside us; the subconciousness works out well
Bleu Oleander: most of what we do and feel is not under our conscious control
Eliza Madrigal: so would that be a difference between material brain and mind?
Bhang Tyran: deffinately eliza
FcSeeker Resident: there's big difference

FcSeeker Resident: brain only arrange things...
Bleu Oleander: brain could be called the "hub" of the mind
Bhang Tyran: or antenna?
Bleu Oleander: mind is much wider than the brain
Eliza Madrigal: somehow brain seems personal whereas mind seems less containable
FcSeeker Resident: is 'hub' the same than a hud ?
Bhang Tyran: but i like hub better
Eliza Madrigal: antenna, interesting :)
Bhang Tyran: a reciever transmitter
FcSeeker Resident: ah ok
Bhang Tyran: 2way switches

Lucinda Lavender: yes...and when we are really quiet...and open we might pick up new information that we are surprised by
FcSeeker Resident: we receive information with our whole existence no matter if we are opened to understand that or not
Lucinda Lavender: you think?
FcSeeker Resident: people react to so many things without noticing it when still is closed...
Lucinda Lavender: maybe so
Lucinda Lavender: I would say I have changed my mind to agree with you fc
Eliza Madrigal nods FcS... so a difference may be less 'reactive' and more 'responsive'....
Bhang Tyran: passive reception and its like the info is coded so without the right tuning ability it stays out side of focus

FcSeeker Resident: not to be aware/notice/understand is like to use the pain killer; they only take the sencing away, not the pain
Lucinda Lavender: sometimes I seem to have opened up through slowing down
Eliza Madrigal nods
Bhang Tyran: word.
FcSeeker Resident: ah yes...in fact...the pain...
Lucinda Lavender: did anyone have a remembered dream this morning I wonder...
Eliza Madrigal: I had a silly dream
FcSeeker Resident: that is the most common reason to keep the mind as closed as much as possible
Lucinda Lavender: never do I think they are silly:)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bleu Oleander: sorry have to go ... rl call ... nice to see you all ... take care :)
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Bleu! Thanks !
FcSeeker Resident: waves to Bleu
Xirana Oximoxi: bye bye Bleu:)
Lucinda Lavender: tho yes take care Bleu

oO0Oo Resident imagines an entity 'always' creating a painting. When it dips it's brush in a well of paint colour.. one of us experiences that as a dream. When the brush touches the canvass.. one of us has an experience of waking insight. While the brush moves between the well and the canvass.. thinking.. questioning occur. That just came to me.. could just be me "chewing on my lonesome" :)

oO0Oo Resident: Bye Bleu
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Xirana Oximoxi: :)
FcSeeker Resident: so well you describe those things O
Eliza Madrigal: that's lovely Sam... don't think you're lonesome at all
FcSeeker Resident: with the choices we all are alone...so alone...
Dash Earthboy: *watching the wheels and words :)
FcSeeker Resident: we always must do that by our own self
oO0Oo Resident: (((Dash)))
FcSeeker Resident: meaning that nobody else can do that for us no matter if we are capable or not
Eliza Madrigal: but its an interesting visual.... we're working maybe on our own (brain) and yet insight may factor so much we can't see... something larger or at least more connected
FcSeeker Resident: ...maybe to choose is thinking...when it's done knowingly I mean
Eliza Madrigal: mmm
FcSeeker Resident: or is it just to act...

--BELL--

FcSeeker Resident: based on done thinking
FcSeeker Resident: no matter how quick...thinking can sure happen also quicker that light speed

Bhang Tyran: have any of you tried to program your dreams?
Dash Earthboy: way back when Bhang
FcSeeker Resident: that comes by the nature the more one understands the dreams
Dash Earthboy: back in the day
Bhang Tyran: in the day hahaha
Xirana Oximoxi: I have not Bhang :)
Lucinda Lavender: no...
FcSeeker Resident: that kind of programming happenes during the dream
Eliza Madrigal: sort of... have asked questions and sort of left them out there
Bhang Tyran: ive heard that starting there can lead to controlled dreams?
Dash Earthboy: yes Bhang
FcSeeker Resident: that's the 'system' of our mind
Eliza Madrigal nods... lots of technologies
Dash Earthboy: to an extent
Lucinda Lavender: I tend to listen in a more passive way...
Bhang Tyran: hmm interesting mine just confuse the crap outta me

Eliza Madrigal: :) some say confusion is a good sign... at least one is paying attention
Dash Earthboy: :)
Bhang Tyran: very deep hahaha
Eliza Madrigal: I heard something once that reminds me of something Luci was once told in a dream...'there is a time to choose, and a time to enter into the choice you've made'... sort of like the actor's notion of 'due dilligence then let go'...
Eliza Madrigal: but then... 'starting at the end' kind of notions seem to say 'just let go' first...
Lucinda Lavender: interesting...
FcSeeker Resident: when ever something that we have learned has changed, the confusing comes; that way we can 're check' what we have learned before, and that's why the state 'confused' is good
Bhang Tyran: building a 'door" then passing through?
Eliza Madrigal: no need to wait or prepare, etc... let go and everything that's come before is already prep work
Lucinda Lavender: nodding to all
Bhang Tyran: cool

Eliza Madrigal: Oh, the session that got me thinking about this is great.. may enjoy it later:
Eliza Madrigal: http://wiki.playasbeing.org/Chat_Logs/2011/08/2011.08.08_19%3a00_-_Simulations

oO0Oo Resident: This taking an interest in the mind.. as proprietor or programmer.. or wondering about its nature and whether we are 'that' reminds me of Dan Siegle's 'Mindsight' a sort of practical application or exploration of of meaning with the interpersonal mind: http://drdansiegel.com/about/mindsight/
 

Xirana Oximoxi: I must go now.... take care all and have a nice day:)
Eliza Madrigal: thanks oO0Oo... interpersonal mind
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Xirana, nice to see you :))
Bhang Tyran: bye xirana
FcSeeker Resident: waves to Xirana
Xirana Oximoxi: bye bye:)
oO0Oo Resident: Bye Xirana
Dash Earthboy: bye Xirana
Lucinda Lavender: bye Xirana...

Bhang points out something cute and obvious...

Bhang Tyran: Fc and me are like anti twins hahaha
Eliza Madrigal: hahahah
oO0Oo Resident: lol
FcSeeker Resident: we both have black :)))))
Bhang Tyran: yin and yang
Dash Earthboy: most self-discipline is predicated on being able to program the mind...going with the flow is not self-discipline, it is abandoning discipline
Eliza Madrigal: yes both have that... one exuding hearts and one horns
FcSeeker Resident: I only have white a bit more than you, but your eyes are white :)))))
Eliza Madrigal: Dash, but implies traction?
Bhang Tyran: dash isnt that the trick
Dash Earthboy: yes
Lucinda Lavender: :))
Bhang Tyran: that letting go takes disciplin?
Dash Earthboy: Eliza yes
Lucinda Lavender: :))
Dash Earthboy: Bhang...not a trick to me

oO0Oo Resident: allowing our hearts to feel the horn's tip?
Dash Earthboy: no, Letting go does not take discipline
Bhang Tyran: right no trick but a practiced skill
Lucinda Lavender: sorry I am about to crash:)
Dash Earthboy: it takes abandoning discipline
Eliza Madrigal grins @ O
Eliza Madrigal: :(Luci... has been having internet issues lately)
Dash Earthboy: yikes
Bhang Tyran: ooops

oO0Oo Resident: Beautiful crash Luci! Full of pixelry vanishment! Well done.

Dash Earthboy: letting go, by definition, cannot be considered a "practiced skill"
Eliza Madrigal looks up to the sky and laughs and laughs
Dash Earthboy: yep
Eliza Madrigal: nice to have you back Luci :)
oO0Oo Resident: !
Lucinda Lavender: :( crashed:)
FcSeeker Resident: wb Lucinda

Eliza Madrigal: want to go back to Luci's dream question? I'll share that part of my silly dream had me riding in a tiny flying vehicle with deepak chopra, after I couldn't get on the helicopter for not having correct ID
Dash Earthboy: :)
Lucinda Lavender: :) super dream
Eliza Madrigal: we weren't flying high but we got around a lot of obstacles
Eliza Madrigal: not sure if we arrived tho
Lucinda Lavender: the vehicles can be vehicles of consciousness

--BELL--

Lucinda Lavender: his work is so centered on synchronicity
Dash Earthboy: facing a week of near record heat in which I must find other accomodations as well as work, I bid you adieu for now...pax et bonum
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Dash, hope you hear from job possibilities soon
FcSeeker Resident: waves to Dash
Lucinda Lavender: and that kind of insight is quite able to bypass obstacles...
oO0Oo Resident blows cool breeze to dash.. Wind at your back dash! Keep going.
Eliza Madrigal: interesting luci... what about you, dreaming?
 

Lucinda Lavender: what amazes me is that you did not have the id...
Lucinda Lavender: there is perhaps some kind of id that comes up with working with his ideas
Eliza Madrigal: :) well it is quite involved ... was first to get on a plane, then was granted an exception for the helicopter :) definitely not the right credentials
Eliza Madrigal: to go to france of all places, hah :) all mixed up, but 'uplifing'

Lucinda Lavender: higher consciousness
Eliza Madrigal: mm maybe about refinement
oO0Oo Resident: helicopter (uplifting) can move much more freely than a plane
Lucinda Lavender: yes....and insight leading ther way
Lucinda Lavender: helicopter...heli = sun?
Eliza Madrigal: even flying so low... reminds me of a bicycle dream I had once, getting through a traffic jam
Lucinda Lavender: no maybe not...
Lucinda Lavender: well bicycle is"under ones own power"
Eliza Madrigal: maybe being simple has its wisdom
Lucinda Lavender: much facility with the heilcopter
Eliza Madrigal: :) so yes an insightful dream as opposed to working out the grocery list...
Eliza Madrigal: though I think list is helped too, hah

Lucinda Lavender: once had a helicopter dream on the day of an earthquake....
Eliza Madrigal: ohhh
Lucinda Lavender: seeing the landscape from above...
Lucinda Lavender: do you remember that flying in your dream?
Eliza Madrigal: well the flying was on the way to the helicopter in anoher tiny vehicle... all I remember is a kind of indoor,white setting and someone looking up at me very confused
Eliza Madrigal: see, silly
Eliza Madrigal: but I don't want to go on and on, that's the tricky part about sharing dreams...
Lucinda Lavender: interesting...for me I would watch for the confusion showing up somewhere...coming into existence with the shite setting    ooops must go for now....start work early today
Eliza Madrigal: haha, Bye Luci! ((( )))
Lucinda Lavender: white setting...coming to be...confusion perhaps seen ahead
FcSeeker Resident: takes a humble bow
oO0Oo Resident: Bye Lucinda.. Have a wonderful flow today!
FcSeeker Resident: namaste

Eliza Madrigal: Luci once shared hearing in a dream 'the universe advises but isn't attached to the outcome'
Bhang Tyran: bye FC
Eliza Madrigal: Bye FcS, thanks :)
Eliza Madrigal: do you both remember dreams? practice dreaming?
oO0Oo Resident: free willingness giving
Eliza Madrigal: maybe it is a kind of insight art
Bhang Tyran: i try to keep track of what i get
Eliza Madrigal: mmm

Bhang Tyran: some are very non sensicle
Bhang Tyran: others have come to be so im not sure
Bhang Tyran: i dreamt 2 of my last 4 jobs
Eliza Madrigal: did you?
Bhang Tyran: no BS !
Eliza Madrigal: yes I don't doubt you, very interesting
Bhang Tyran: the first was a warehouse job
Bhang Tyran: i dreamt my self walking down isles of racking checking inventory that was a year prior to getting the job
Eliza Madrigal: ah, wonderful
Bhang Tyran: i didnt recognize it till i had de' ja' vous one day checking inventory go figure
Eliza Madrigal smiles widely
Eliza Madrigal: that's the way subtle things seem to be, not capturable or provable... but noticable
Bhang Tyran: ever since then im looking to see what the connection between dreaming and rl is
Bhang Tyran: i convinced there is a way to actively tap into it
Bhang Tyran: so here i am
Eliza Madrigal nods.... seems to me like more an effect than a cause?

--BELL--

oO0Oo Resident: notice anything subtle?
Bhang Tyran: but which is the cause if i dreamt it before it happend? was i seeing the future or writing it? ooooh
Bhang Tyran: in the dream ? no. it was very un impressive very routine feeling
Bhang Tyran: have you had any similar experiences?
oO0Oo Resident leans into the sharp points
Eliza Madrigal: my word choice there wasn't great... was thinking that curiosity, attention, etc seems to help us remember glimpses we may get all the time but not know
Eliza Madrigal: :)) oO0Oo
Bhang Tyran: oh i see yes

Eliza Madrigal: Luci has quite a bit of experience with precognitive dreams... I've a bit... with my children before they were born
Eliza Madrigal: and now and again... but the more you look for that the less likely you'll remember
Eliza Madrigal: :D

Bhang Tyran: wow eliza ! i was just standing there looking at this list when i looked up and felt like id been there befor
Eliza Madrigal: and you had been.... did it make you question the non-dreaming 'place'
Bhang Tyran: hmm did you dream of your kids or did they dream of you i wonder?
Eliza Madrigal: Nice idea Bhang :)
Bhang Tyran: yes i have questioned "reality" ever since in not so socially acceptable ways sometimes hahaha
Eliza Madrigal: hmmm, lets that be, haha
Bhang Tyran: XD
Eliza Madrigal smiles
oO0Oo Resident: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Vzf9BAVGZc
Eliza Madrigal clicks
Bhang Tyran: time isnt real damnit !
Bhang Tyran: we are all trapped in a time machine moving forward at regular speed i tell you
Bhang Tyran: TRAPPED !
Bhang Tyran: cool story trbal justice
Bhang Tyran: i gotta jet namaste y'all
Eliza Madrigal: ah.. I do like that line 'my story you've never seen before'
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Bhang, good of you to join us again
Bhang Tyran: trapped
oO0Oo Resident: Bye Bhang.. thanks for coming
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: story making machines
oO0Oo Resident: lol.. speared by trident of own making
Eliza Madrigal: :) sighs

oO0Oo Resident: that tiny seat was perfect
Eliza Madrigal: isn't it cute?? hehe
oO0Oo Resident: so thoughtful
Eliza Madrigal: well he seemed to suit it perfectly
Eliza Madrigal: both glowing
Eliza Madrigal: funny what one finds in inventory when moment pops up
oO0Oo Resident: yes a perfect fit.. your inventory is the product of wise training
oO0Oo Resident smiles
oO0Oo Resident: lucky dip
Eliza Madrigal: well I'm sure someone else would have a difficult time finding their way around in it

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: really confusing quite a mess
Eliza Madrigal: :)
oO0Oo Resident: from confusion.. clarity, from mess.. thriving growth.. life.. movement.. wonder.. appreciation
Eliza Madrigal: :)))
Eliza Madrigal: How is it that not even your clothing registers on the ecobox?
Eliza Madrigal: you're wearing everything lightly
oO0Oo Resident: the poppins mystery
Eliza Madrigal giggles

Eliza Madrigal: alas, have to go... so happy to see you again today
oO0Oo Resident: Many cheers! Wind, water and fire.. hearts and pointy bits, earth.. simplicity, serendipity!
Eliza Madrigal: !! hear hear !!
Eliza Madrigal: _/!\_
oO0Oo Resident bows. Gassho _/|\_