The Guardian for this meeting was Aphrodite Macbain. Eos Amaterasu posted the log.

Pema Pera: hi Bruce!
Bruce Mowbray: Pema! Hello!
Pema Pera: Good to see you again
Bruce Mowbray: And good to see you too!
Pema Pera: /g9low
Pema Pera: (just trying to lower the fountain; not "glow" :-)
Pema Pera: hi Aphrodite!
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Aph!
Aphrodite Macbain: Hello Bruce and Pema!
Bruce Mowbray: How's the ankle, Aph?
Aphrodite Macbain: hmmm a bit stiff
Bruce Mowbray: oh dear.
Aphrodite Macbain: aS LONG AS i DONT PUT WEIGHT ON IT IT'S FINE
Aphrodite Macbain: oops
Aphrodite Macbain: sorry
Pema Pera: :-)
Pema Pera: hi Santo!
Pema Pera: Aph, I just wanted to thank you for your great inspiration to all of us, in having us focus on a single theme, each week
Santoshima Resident: hey!
Bruce Mowbray: I Crazy Glued my Caps key so that wouldn't happen for me anymore.
Aphrodite Macbain: I'd be ha[py to take the log Pema
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, San!
Pema Pera: okay, thanks Aph!
Santoshima Resident: hi Pema, Bruce, Aph
Bruce Mowbray: afk for just a sec.
Aphrodite Macbain: Thank you Pema- it wasa bit of a group decision aided and abeeted by ELiza and Zen and a numebr of others
Pema Pera: it greatly helps to focus the sessions by having a default theme
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi San
Pema Pera: hi Raffi, and hi Druth!
Santoshima Resident: i just discovered that I need never walk in PaB ever again ... can just click on a cushin from a great distance and voila! you are here
Raffila Millgrove greets all.
Santoshima Resident: cushion
Aphrodite Macbain: Yes although it's tricky to get people focused
Aphrodite Macbain: very!
Santoshima Resident: greetings everyone
Aphrodite Macbain: Hiya Druth, Raffila
druth Vlodovic: hey y'all
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, druth!
Pema Pera: yes, life in RL is quite handicapped in comparison
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Raffi!
Aphrodite Macbain: I'd love to be able to do tht right now with this bum ankle!
Raffila Millgrove: hi Bruce.
Pema Pera: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Were most of you here for our equanimity discussion on Sunday?
Aphrodite Macbain: Seems we only got started and spent most of the time defining
Pema Pera: I enjoyed our discussion yesterday evening about equanimity, and I wished I could have stayed longer; wasn't here the night before
Aphrodite Macbain: Oh good, so the conversation HAS continued.
Pema Pera: one thing that came up just when I had to leave for lunch was the question of ups and downs, happiness and sadness
Pema Pera: I don't remember the exact words
Pema Pera: and for me at least, equanimity can full encompass those
Pema Pera: it doesn't mean flattening feelings
Aphrodite Macbain: Having a balance of both Pema?
Pema Pera: yes, not getting totally lost in them
Bruce Mowbray: an acceptance of both?
Pema Pera: but allowing to go into them deeply
Raffila Millgrove: (we were talking also some at our 1 pm meet today as well)
Aphrodite Macbain: I've been thinking about it a lot.
Bruce Mowbray: me too.
Bruce Mowbray: too*
Aphrodite Macbain: and the areas that I need to find balance.
Pema Pera: what came up at 1 pm, Raffi?
Raffila Millgrove: oh viewpoint from Jain religion.
Aphrodite Macbain: listens
Raffila Millgrove: among other things. korel has the link in the log
Aphrodite Macbain: I know very littleabout the Jains exceptthat they are very concerned about protecting all life
Raffila Millgrove: turned out it was first on their list of six duties.
Aphrodite Macbain: what was?
Raffila Millgrove: equanimity. isn't that what we are talking about?
Aphrodite Macbain: Yes- equanimity is a duty then?
Pema Pera: interesting, as a kind of responsibility?
Aphrodite Macbain: curious.
Bruce Mowbray: I find Equanimity to be an aspiration. . . .
Pema Pera: perhaps the main question is how to find equanimity, how to create the conditions for it to appear, rather than to try to force oneself to be equanimous
Santoshima Resident: yes, responsibility
Raffila Millgrove: Samayika is the principal concept of Jainism. It is the first and foremost duty among six essential duties of a monk as well as of a house‑holder. Prakrta term Samaiya is translated into English in various ways such as observance of equanimity, viewing all the living beings as one's own self, conception of equality, harmonious state of one's behavior, integration of personality as well as righteousness of the activities of mind, body and speech.
Bruce Mowbray: Wow! I love that. Thanks, Raffi!
Pema Pera: ah, resonances with human rights and democracy, interesting universality
Aphrodite Macbain: That's quite a challenge!

--BELL--

Raffila Millgrove: it comes first and foremost.. i found that something i didn't know.

Aphrodite Macbain: Makes me wonder what the rest of the five are.
Raffila Millgrove: here's the link.. that was just first paragraph. really good essay
Raffila Millgrove: http://jainology.blogspot.com/2009/06/equanimity-and-meditation.html
Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks Raffi
Raffila Millgrove: yw .. credit Korel for finding it.
Aphrodite Macbain: I am curious about the concept of "integration of personality"
Aphrodite Macbain: and what that means.
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Aphrodite Macbain: Once again I hear about the concept of multiple selves.
Aphrodite Macbain: ever shifting. unstable
Bruce Mowbray: We are legion.
Aphrodite Macbain: equanimity is to be able to balance them all
Aphrodite Macbain: into one family, as you have said Brce.
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, not so much balance, for me, as acceptance.
Santoshima Resident: we "contain multitudes", to quote a bearded poet
Aphrodite Macbain: perhaps acceptance assists balance
Bruce Mowbray loves Whitman!
Santoshima Resident: / tiptoes out to work ... bfn everyone
Aphrodite Macbain: multitudes! legion!
Bruce Mowbray: Bye, San!
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye San
Aphrodite Macbain: I dont think I have that many!
druth Vlodovic: I've heard people talking as thought their personalities were fully integrated, I'm afraid I always assumed they were deluding themselves
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Aphrodite Macbain: How does one talk as though they are fully integrated,?
Bruce Mowbray: I don't think it matters how many there are "at home," only that they can all sit at the same dinner table.
Aphrodite Macbain: and accept each other?
Bruce Mowbray: Equanimity is required for that, I feel.
Bruce Mowbray: yes.
Aphrodite Macbain: The meat eaters can sit with the vegans.
Bruce Mowbray: of course!
Aphrodite Macbain: veg and non veg
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Bruce Mowbray: The lion shall lie down with the lamb.
Aphrodite Macbain: Hmm sounds Utopian to me
Bruce Mowbray: Equanimity is indeed a form of utopian vision. . . an aspiration.
Raffila Millgrove: you druth do not feel that most people have integrated their personalities?
druth Vlodovic: I suspect that most people aren't fully aware of their motivations
Aphrodite Macbain: motivations?
Raffila Millgrove: possible defintion of integrated personality: The effective organization of old and new experience, data, and emotional capacities into the personality; the harmonious organization of the personality.
druth Vlodovic: motives, views, what makes them think and act in the ways they do
Aphrodite Macbain: sounds right raffi
Aphrodite Macbain: in the various and sometimes conflicting ways that they do...
Bruce Mowbray: Does intention have any part in this?
Raffila Millgrove: i agree about motives--about why-how you make choices. what you say/act. I think we believe we're more in control than we really are.. but is that integrated personality?
Raffila Millgrove: not even "in control" but that we're tricked in a way to believe we're doing something for some "reason" when in fact we don't really know.. why our brain opts for certain solutions.
Aphrodite Macbain: Perhaps an integrated personality is one that brings a variety of intentions and attitudes to bear on our actions.
Aphrodite Macbain: balance
Raffila Millgrove: well that is not really the definition. presumably it's about organization.. how well we have organized our experiences, old and new, emotional capacities and data. i did not see intentions in there.
Pema Pera: hi Steve!
stevenaia Michinaga: waves
Bruce Mowbray: Equanimity is one of the Four Immeasurables . . . and, for me, that means a sort of "prime" emotional intention -- not reducable to "lower" factors.
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Steve!
Aphrodite Macbain: [19:29] Aphrodite Macbain: waves at Stevenaia

--BELL--

Raffila Millgrove: er you are aware that this word integrated personality is a medical definition.. it's related to whether you could be considered mentally healthy (sane)
Aphrodite Macbain: Why is it important that we are balanced? Why do we need equanimity? Is it an end in itslef or does it serve a higher purpose?
Bruce Mowbray: both, I feel, Aph.
Aphrodite Macbain: Why, for instance, is it so important to Jainism?
Raffila Millgrove: i think it's the state of mind that allows one to gather data, assess situtations, take action or not . in a reasonable calm, careful, caring way.
Aphrodite Macbain: Does it help us serve all sentient beings better?
Bruce Mowbray: The satisfaction of physical hunger, for example, is an end in itself. . . warding off starvation. . . but it also serves a larger purpose. . . survival.
Raffila Millgrove: like a steady state. you want that kind of.. state of mind in a captain on an airliner for example.
Aphrodite Macbain: Is equanimity as basic as feeding our hunger?
Bruce Mowbray: I feel that Equanimity is very basic, yes.
druth Vlodovic: you can live without it, but not comfortably
Aphrodite Macbain: So it serves the individual mainly?
Bruce Mowbray is not sure he can live without it.
druth Vlodovic: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: We would all be very tippy!
Aphrodite Macbain: Make selfish decisions
druth Vlodovic: or just random ones
Aphrodite Macbain: A large area of balance is between us (the ego) and the rest of the world
Bruce Mowbray: That't why I said earlier that intention is vital.
Aphrodite Macbain: selfishness vs altruism
Bruce Mowbray: Tha's*
Bruce Mowbray: That's*
Aphrodite Macbain: :-) nods
Pema Pera: perhaps equanimity is a symptom of a deeper balance, not so much something to try to force, but more a singpost that you're moving in the right direction
Bruce Mowbray: oh yes, Pema.
Bruce Mowbray: also an intention to move in that direction.
Pema Pera nods
druth Vlodovic: since intention arises from the self I suppose integration would help with proper formation of intention
Aphrodite Macbain: I'm not sure what that signpost says...
Aphrodite Macbain: nods at druth
Bruce Mowbray ponders a laboratory in which intention is explored.
stevenaia Michinaga: waves at boxy
Alfred Kelberry: hi :)
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Boxy!
Alfred Kelberry: oh nooes! pema is here :)
Pema Pera: hi Alfred!
Alfred Kelberry: with *new* hair! :)
Pema Pera: :-)
Pema Pera getting used to Alfred being surprised to see me
Alfred Kelberry: excited :)
Pema Pera: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: I like the concept of balance, searching for eqilibriu not jst between two opposit poles bit among many. It's hard to avoid dualist thinking...either/or...
Alfred Kelberry: i know, it's not my usual time
Aphrodite Macbain: um,ite,
Raffila Millgrove: "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" my husband wishes me to say this cause he is following the discussion and.. frankly i agree with that as a fairly truish statement.
Bruce Mowbray: Does intention promote balance?
Aphrodite Macbain: on my grave stone I want written "she meant well"
Alfred Kelberry: *waves to mr raffi* :)
Aphrodite Macbain: smiles at Boxy and gives up...
Pema Pera: that's a very important reminder, about the road to hell ! Which is why "striving for equanimity" is such a tricky thing, which can easily backfire
druth Vlodovic: that usually refers to people not stopping and making sure they have all the facts first
Bruce Mowbray: Intention is a seed balanced on a needle. . . .
Bruce Mowbray: Impossible to have all the facts first.
Bruce Mowbray: Go with a path of heart.
Aphrodite Macbain: but considering different perspective is also very important
Alfred Kelberry: nicely poetic, bruce :)
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Bruce Mowbray: (not original, of course).
Pema Pera is quietly slipping out, RL calling
stevenaia Michinaga: bye Pema
Alfred Kelberry: elusive pema :)
Alfred Kelberry: be well!
Pema Pera: thanks for another round of great conversations!
druth Vlodovic: are you concerned with your intentions bruce? you seem very interested in the subject
Aphrodite Macbain quietly slips too
Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Pema!
druth Vlodovic: bye pema, it was god to see you again
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye everyone
Alfred Kelberry: aph :)
Alfred Kelberry: "god to see you" :)

--BELL--

stevenaia Michinaga: giggles at druth's typo
druth Vlodovic: cya aph
Bruce Mowbray is also feeling drowsy. . . forehead falling onto keyoard.
Bruce Mowbray: must hasten to bed.
Alfred Kelberry: nap well, bruce
Bruce Mowbray: G'nite, all!
stevenaia Michinaga: Night Bruce
Raffila Millgrove: bye Bruce
druth Vlodovic: bye bruce
stevenaia Michinaga: reading wiki: equanimity is considered essential for carrying out the theological virtues of gentleness, contentment, temperance, and charity
stevenaia Michinaga: (christian version, ofcourse)
stevenaia Michinaga: It is the ground for wisdom and freedom and the protector of compassion and love. While some may think of equanimity as dry neutrality or cool aloofness, mature equanimity produces a radiance and warmth of being
stevenaia Michinaga: Buddhism
stevenaia Michinaga: a rather short Wiki page, actually
Raffila Millgrove: i posted Jain.. before you got here Steve..
Raffila Millgrove: so we're covering pretty good i guess.
druth Vlodovic: a defensive measure that doesn't seperate you from what you defend against
Raffila Millgrove: i hope you 3 will excuse me now.
Raffila Millgrove: bye. have a good one.
Alfred Kelberry: no!
Alfred Kelberry: *grabs raffi's foot*
Raffila Millgrove: hehe.
Alfred Kelberry: NOT going :)
Raffila Millgrove: hehe.
Raffila Millgrove: you are such a teaser.
Alfred Kelberry: ;)
Alfred Kelberry: be well, raffi
Raffila Millgrove: i tried to pet his nose and it didn't work.
Raffila Millgrove: ty for posting those definitions Steve.
stevenaia Michinaga: jsut what seemsed interesting, ty
Raffila Millgrove: you should do it again when we.. have the crowd again.
Raffila Millgrove: i couldn't grab and save this time. please do again.. next time.
stevenaia Michinaga: perhaps tomorrow
druth Vlodovic: I've gott o go too, have fun all
stevenaia Michinaga: I need to get to bed, good seeing yu Druth, Boxy, Raffi
Raffila Millgrove: great seeing you druth. come again.. we don't see enough of you!
Alfred Kelberry: thank you for the company
Raffila Millgrove: yeah pretty soon will be Friday and we can get back to important stuff of playing.
Alfred Kelberry: be well, lovely ladies