The Guardian for this meeting was Eos Amaterasu. The comments are by Eos Amaterasu.

stevenaia Michinaga: greetings Eos
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Stevenaia

--BELL--

Eos Amaterasu: Haven't ridden on the new NDR yet
stevenaia Michinaga: I take it for a spin now and then
stevenaia Michinaga: it's so futuristic now
Eos Amaterasu: less Thomas the Tank Engine
stevenaia Michinaga: less Flintstones
Eos Amaterasu: more Jetsons
stevenaia Michinaga: more magic
stevenaia Michinaga: hi Eliza
Eos Amaterasu: hi Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Eos, Stevenaia
stevenaia Michinaga: nice sculpture
stevenaia Michinaga: in the dome
Eliza Madrigal: ty :)
Eliza Madrigal: simple I know, but pleasureable to make
Eliza Madrigal: please don't allow me to interrupt... nice to arrive to the words "more magic"
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eos Amaterasu: we were talking about the train
Eliza Madrigal: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: we were talking about the transformation of the NDR
Eliza Madrigal: it has lucid traction...
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Raffi
Raffila Millgrove: hi everyone.
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Raffie
stevenaia Michinaga: an amajing pience of engineerring and scripting
stevenaia Michinaga: amazing piece
Eliza Madrigal: work of joy it seems
Eliza Madrigal: that shows
stevenaia Michinaga: hi Raffi
Eos Amaterasu: toy of Storm's designing
Raffila Millgrove: are you commenting on one of the motion pieces?
stevenaia Michinaga: the train
Eliza Madrigal: well suppose the train is one...
Raffila Millgrove nods. yes isn't it wonderful.
stevenaia Michinaga: and ever transfoming itself
Eliza Madrigal: trainsformational
stevenaia Michinaga: lol
Eliza Madrigal: with a wink to Eos's trainscendence ;-)
Eos Amaterasu: joy in toy designing is transcendent play :-)
Eliza Madrigal smiles
stevenaia Michinaga: train ride, a suitable metaphor for life
Raffila Millgrove: i was reading an interview with a builder who said.. that his joy was in the creating. the actual work. of the building and that's why when he had to take a sim down. destory it.. he never felt bad.. only saw it as a start point.. to make something better the next time. that attitude. it kind of amazed me. that people could have it.
Raffila Millgrove: he really did transcend. have no attachment etc. was impressive.
Eliza Madrigal: joy of immediacy
Raffila Millgrove: well the joy was in the doing. and the result, the finish. didn't matter. the material didn't matter. it was the act of creating that had meaning for him.
Eos Amaterasu: can you say more about "the act of creating", raffie?
Raffila Millgrove: kind of cool that people can live their lives in that way. i envy it.
stevenaia Michinaga: I see that with painters, the image is complete before the artists starts, the painting is machanical, afterwards, the act is over for the artists (and begins to everyone else)
Raffila Millgrove: not to be attached to the outcome.
Raffila Millgrove: oh i cannot see very many painters. destorying their work... without care and going on to the next.
stevenaia Michinaga: not destroying it, jsut letting it go
stevenaia Michinaga: overness comes in man forms
stevenaia Michinaga: *many
Eos Amaterasu: Hi San
Raffila Millgrove: yeah but we are talking here.. of someone actually destorying his own work and not feeling any sadness in it.
Santoshima Resident: greetings
Raffila Millgrove: that goes beyond.. "letting go".
Eos Amaterasu: (inspired by NDR, we are talking about the act of creating)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi San
stevenaia Michinaga: that's one form of overness
Santoshima Resident: hello
stevenaia Michinaga: or doneness
stevenaia Michinaga: hi San
Santoshima Resident: hello
Raffila Millgrove: well i am really talking about transcending. i think the example i gave is a good one of trancendence.
stevenaia Michinaga: nods
Santoshima Resident: { uh, what's NDR }
Eos Amaterasu: Non Dual Railroad
Raffila Millgrove: the railroad here San.
Santoshima Resident: ah, ok
Eos Amaterasu: (it has a no track mind?)
Raffila Millgrove: (lol @Eos)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eos Amaterasu: seems like that kind of creating is a good analogue or echo of life...
Alfred Kelberry: i have arrived
Eos Amaterasu: we can't take "it" with us....
Raffila Millgrove: hey the boxter arrives!
Alfred Kelberry: hi :)
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Boxy
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Aphrodite and Boxy :)
Eos Amaterasu: lo and behold, hear ye hear ye, there be boxy
Alfred Kelberry: good to see you raffi. been a while :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Hello!
Raffila Millgrove: and aphro too. Hi Aph.
Aphrodite Macbain: Hiya Raffi

--BELL--

Alfred Kelberry: eos :)
Eos Amaterasu: we're talking NDR, act of creating....
Aphrodite Macbain: I cant believe it's 7:14 already
Alfred Kelberry: i approve the new modern look
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Santoshima Resident: { friendly greetings >> aph and boxy ~ }
Aphrodite Macbain: smiles at san
Alfred Kelberry: also, i'm writing a letter to a cookie manufacturer. they overcooked my cookies.
Eos Amaterasu: dog biscuits?
Alfred Kelberry: this is a major oversight on their behalf
Alfred Kelberry: eos :)
stevenaia Michinaga: was they nice enought to guarentee your satisfcation?
Alfred Kelberry: sort of
Raffila Millgrove: i gave example of builder interview--he said he felt no sadness to destroy a sim he'd built--because his joy was only in the doing--the building. and he didn't care about the actual finished sim. he thought only. i can do better next time. I thought it was amazing attitude. and an example of transcending.
stevenaia Michinaga: perhaps that is the difference between the joy of the act and the joy of possessions
Alfred Kelberry: stev, no, but i had them before and they were well cooked :)
Alfred Kelberry: raff, interesting
Santoshima Resident: { topic: transcending cookies }
Eos Amaterasu: or, even better, transcendent cookies
Eos Amaterasu: like the almond cookies in Malta
Alfred Kelberry: he probably has a copy of all the builds in his inventory anyway
Santoshima Resident: yum
Raffila Millgrove: i think talking in the concrete.. it is helpful.. over only abstract.
Alfred Kelberry: agreed
Aphrodite Macbain: Raffi- it sounds like the Tibetan monks making the sand mandala
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Raffila Millgrove: (going to search in logs for Pema's comment on that.. as it was meaningful to me)
stevenaia Michinaga: I remember in school spending a semester building a model and feeling perfectly happy dissassembling it with much distructive effort and satisfation after the semester was over, it had served its purpose
Aphrodite Macbain: I feel sad when a beautiful sim disappears.
Eliza Madrigal: offer to the winds
stevenaia Michinaga: very much like the sand mandala
Alfred Kelberry: stev, a model of a building?
stevenaia Michinaga: nods, made from plaster castings
Alfred Kelberry: neat
Aphrodite Macbain: plaster castings of what?
stevenaia Michinaga: exterior wals
stevenaia Michinaga: walls
stevenaia Michinaga: floors
Aphrodite Macbain: I see
Aphrodite Macbain: shells of their former selves
stevenaia Michinaga: learning about the plasticity of cncrete
stevenaia Michinaga: concrete
Eos Amaterasu: yeah, concrete is a suspension
Alfred Kelberry: i have a gf who is an architect. i would not let her destroy her college models :)
stevenaia Michinaga: this was big and heavy and not easilly stored
stevenaia Michinaga: (or moved)
Alfred Kelberry: did you like how it come out?
Alfred Kelberry: maybe it was an unwanted child :)
stevenaia Michinaga: :) not sure, it was a work in process
Eos Amaterasu: seems like it was a lab
Raffila Millgrove: (Pema Pera: I think a theme is just a trick to go into interesting stories about our life and concrete experiences -- as Steve just did. And then it is fun to connect those stories to general patterns, like wu-wei (not doing) that can then help us in other concrete situations-pema quote relevant to discussion)
Alfred Kelberry: *thinks of chem lab and explosions*
stevenaia Michinaga: hmmm a pun in reverse?
Santoshima Resident: { slips out, into the spring rain }
Eos Amaterasu: a theme is a way of unrolling the sardine tin
Eliza Madrigal: I regret having lost all my young journals intentionally, but at the time I felt the way the builder did I think
Eliza Madrigal: but might have same sensation if I'd kept them :)
Alfred Kelberry: not sure i get that quote
Eos Amaterasu: unpacking the meaning
Raffila Millgrove: relates boxy to why... i ask or give the concrete example... relates lightly to you wish for less vagueness)
Alfred Kelberry: to me a theme is a general guide in a conversation. a point of reference.
Alfred Kelberry: raff, ah. good then :)
Eliza Madrigal: anchors
Aphrodite Macbain: yes- that's what they are intended for - as catalysts or jumping off points
Raffila Millgrove: maybe you don't want to come discuss science.. which is ok.. but wish to demo to you. that your request for more concrete has been both noted and implimented.
stevenaia Michinaga: and makes my concrete model example even more ironic
Storm Nordwind: Probably useful for my own relentless pragmatism too
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Storm

--BELL--

Aphrodite Macbain: I find I understand things better if I can see them.
Aphrodite Macbain: I am a visual learner and a haptic (hands on) learner. Concrete (or even plaster) examples are useful.
Alfred Kelberry: raff, thank you :)
stevenaia Michinaga: I find I understand what needs to change by experienceing something I don't like
Alfred Kelberry: oh, storm is here too. didn't notice :)
Storm Nordwind: I'm only small ;)
Aphrodite Macbain: hmmm
Alfred Kelberry: so, did you hear my cookie story, storm? :)
Alfred Kelberry: or did you come afterwards?
Aphrodite Macbain: He was here all along
Eos Amaterasu: 19:17] boxy (alfred.kelberry): also, i'm writing a letter to a cookie manufacturer. they overcooked my cookies.
Alfred Kelberry: ok, good. informed then.
Storm Nordwind nods :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Let us knlow if they write back or fire the baker
Storm Nordwind: Samples. We want samples. :)
Eliza Madrigal: or elves
Alfred Kelberry: unlikely, but will do, aph
Aphrodite Macbain: fire the elves?
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Storm Nordwind: Elves made of clay?
Alfred Kelberry: storm, you don't want these fried samples :)
Eos Amaterasu: that bad
Aphrodite Macbain: fried cookies?
stevenaia Michinaga: isn;t eating a form of destruction of a creative act, Raffi?
Alfred Kelberry: storm, translate, please
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, what skills Stevie... haha... art of segue
Storm Nordwind: No. It's the culmination of a creative act :)
stevenaia Michinaga: elves bake some cookes
Eos Amaterasu: and itself a creative act
Eos Amaterasu: especially a group dinner
Aphrodite Macbain: what else is creative?
Alfred Kelberry: food consumption is sheer joy
Aphrodite Macbain: unless the food is overcooked
Alfred Kelberry: yep
Alfred Kelberry: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: harder to eat, then
Eliza Madrigal: then relish the complaint with artistry :)
Eliza Madrigal: friendly feedback :)
Eliza Madrigal is in a cafe' with internet out at home...
Aphrodite Macbain: all this food talk is making me hungry.
Eliza Madrigal: so will say goodnight :)
Aphrodite Macbain: I think I'll eat din dins
Eliza Madrigal: thanks Eos, everyone
Alfred Kelberry: bad excuse, eliza :)
Eos Amaterasu: ciao!
Storm Nordwind waves
Aphrodite Macbain: Byee
stevenaia Michinaga: bye
Eliza Madrigal: :) have been ping ponging all day Boxy :)
Eliza Madrigal: cafe --ping--- house-- pong-- cafe--ping--house
Alfred Kelberry: enjoy your latte :)
Eos Amaterasu: be wave and particle both, Eliza
Eliza Madrigal laughs
Eliza Madrigal: Nite :)
Eliza Madrigal: YES, haha
Storm Nordwind imagines the Eliza video game ;)
Alfred Kelberry: x rated?
stevenaia Michinaga: sounds like a nice day
Eliza Madrigal: Hugs :)
Alfred Kelberry: *moves closer to raffi*
Alfred Kelberry: just noticed 3 of you in sunglasses :)
Storm Nordwind: I wore mine because of the bright stuff in the Art Dome.
Alfred Kelberry: ah! intriguing :)
Eos Amaterasu: I wore mine becaue Storm suggested wearing shades
Storm Nordwind: Rather like my RL ones, except they are shade B15
Alfred Kelberry: i only wear them in the mountains
Eos Amaterasu: sunny mountains?
Alfred Kelberry: snowy :)
Eos Amaterasu: ah yes
Storm Nordwind: I originally got mine for flying, but in this high mountain air they're good for driving too
Eos Amaterasu: ?
Alfred Kelberry: also, quite enjoy your outfit, raffi :)
stevenaia Michinaga: you fly in RL storm?
Storm Nordwind: I have a UK pilots license
Alfred Kelberry: storm, do you have those pilot ones sunglasses?
Storm Nordwind: My RL sunglasses are pilot's glasses - is that what you're asking boxy?

--BELL--

Alfred Kelberry: wait, there must be a pic...
Storm Nordwind: There is... I have one from several years ago I recently sent to my daughter
Alfred Kelberry: got it! http://bit.ly/Lpwmtk
Alfred Kelberry: military pilots style
Storm Nordwind: Wrong color from my RL ones. Those are like my SL ones
stevenaia Michinaga: hehe
stevenaia Michinaga: thought you would be wearing them
Storm Nordwind: Flying glasses are best brown lenses. Forget what you saw in Top Gun!
Alfred Kelberry: hmm, top gun. can't remember.
Alfred Kelberry: feels like ages ago
Alfred Kelberry: very similar: http://bit.ly/MFrF4f
Alfred Kelberry: storm, tell us something educational. a good story.
Storm Nordwind: I'd make everyone fall asleep if i did
Alfred Kelberry: it's ok. the meeting is almost over :)
stevenaia Michinaga: :) and I must go
Eos Amaterasu: bye stevie
Alfred Kelberry: "educational" - one way to scare people away :)
Eos Amaterasu: leading somewhere
Alfred Kelberry: and make sure you present a few formulas, storm
Storm Nordwind: One day I'm going to install a net at the top of the Pavilion to catch Stevie on departure. ;-)
Alfred Kelberry: ha!
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Alfred Kelberry: that'd be a nice hack
Storm Nordwind: Easy to do, and a lot of fun :)
Eos Amaterasu: heh heh
Eos Amaterasu: back to act of creating :-)
Alfred Kelberry: hey! how about a practical joke day at pab? everyone could do something hacky :)
Storm Nordwind: No. I abhor playing practical jokes. I'd stay away.
Raffila Millgrove: uh oh. the word "hacky" makes me nervous.
Alfred Kelberry: storm... i don't like you
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Alfred Kelberry: raffi, why?
Storm Nordwind: I'll get used to it boxy :)
Raffila Millgrove: er i will im you.
Eos Amaterasu: "Hacking is the clever circumvention of imposed limits, whether imposed by your government, your IP server, your own personality, or the laws of physics." — St. Jude
Alfred Kelberry: storm, but you proposed a great practical joke just now!
Alfred Kelberry: eos! who is st. jude? :)
Eos Amaterasu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jude_Milhon
Alfred Kelberry: wow, never heard of him
Eos Amaterasu: her
Alfred Kelberry: old timer
Alfred Kelberry: er, her - even better :)
Eos Amaterasu: so, playful casting of nets

--BELL--

Eos Amaterasu: I must cast off - thanks storm and boxy and raffie
Eos Amaterasu: good night!
Storm Nordwind: Make sure you have a pilot on board!
Alfred Kelberry: for a more comprehensive definition, please, see: http://catb.org/jargon/html/H/hacker.html
Alfred Kelberry: i hope raffi isn't leaving
Raffila Millgrove is going to read the log to find out most of what happened. a friend called with big emergency so i missed.
Storm Nordwind: Oh dear.
Alfred Kelberry: ah, hope he's fine
Raffila Millgrove: i feel so frustrated when people.. won't take my advice. haha. i should know better. i do know better. but it was so serious i felt compelled to offer advice.
Storm Nordwind: well you've done what you can
Alfred Kelberry: i'm now compelled to know what was the deal :)
Storm Nordwind: Please excuse me friends. I'll leave you to catch up... :)
Raffila Millgrove: bye Storm.