The Guardian for this meeting was Zen Arado. The comments are by Zen Arado.

Yakuzza Lethecus: morning storm
Zen Arado: brb phone
Storm Nordwind: Hi guys! Was this sim down a few minutes ago?
Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, right
Yakuzza Lethecus: rezzed at the right place in the cafe to meet zen :)
Storm Nordwind: :)
Zen Arado: back
Storm Nordwind: Couldn't log in or get any reports from the region, so came into Mieum instead.
Zen Arado: Hi Storm
Storm Nordwind: Hi :)
Zen Arado: it was down for nearly 15 minutes
Zen Arado: why do they do that Storm?
Storm Nordwind: Reboot the sims?
Zen Arado: yes
Storm Nordwind: They use it to install minor updates. And to clear memory leakage. And zombie avatars. And invisible prims. In a perfect world with perfect software, I dare say it wouldn't be needed
Storm Nordwind: The other day, San reported to me that voice wasn't working anywhere. So I lodged a support ticket and got the sim rebooted. Voice then worked OK
Zen Arado: something like turning your computer off at night instead ofkeeping it running?
Zen Arado: Yes I noticed that last Monday
Storm Nordwind: Yes. Something like that
Zen Arado: Darren sometimes uses voice for meditation at our original face meeting
Storm Nordwind smiles
Yakuzza Lethecus: on friday i won´t be at the voice session
Yakuzza Lethecus: actually i have to look for a replacement for my guardiansession too
Storm Nordwind: Which country will you be in Yaku? ;)
Yakuzza Lethecus: i will stay here, just picking her up that evening
Storm Nordwind: :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: but i am no globetrotter anyway, just swetrotter
--BELL--
Zen Arado: Hi Boxy
Alfred Kelberry: i have arrived
Alfred Kelberry: hi :)
Zen Arado: so some people are going to carry on with the 99 days project?
Storm Nordwind: of course :)
Alfred Kelberry: is the second round over?
Zen Arado: I was starting to think that I was going to be on my own
Zen Arado: I think it's a good practice to crystallise some of the things that happened each day in writing
Storm Nordwind: Though i thought I was going to be on my own - and I didn't even know how create a new day's page!
Alfred Kelberry: pablog
Zen Arado: well if I'm not on my own I can still write something
Zen Arado: I'm not that worried if anybody reads it or not
Storm Nordwind: Recheck day 49's comments :))
Yakuzza Lethecus: nice poem :)
Storm Nordwind smiles
Zen Arado: yeh nice ;)
Zen Arado: one of the names my Zen teacher gave me, Taizan, means peaceful mountain
Zen Arado: that reminds me of it
Storm Nordwind: Perhaps I intuited that :)
Storm Nordwind is not aware of having been given a name by a teacher - at least not one repeatable in polite company ;)
Zen Arado: they give you a Japanese name when you do a ceremony called Jukai
Zen Arado: also called "taking the precepts'
Zen Arado: a Zen tradition
Storm Nordwind: Yes. Some other groups do that when taking the precepts too. But it seems I managed to be in groups that didn't give out such names :)
Zen Arado: lineage is very important in Zen
Zen Arado: they give you a chart that traces you right back to the Budde
Zen Arado: my teacher's line goes back through Shunryu Suzuki
Zen Arado: I don't know if that is important or not to me
Zen Arado: teachers still go off the rails even if they are in a tradition
Storm Nordwind: How do you feel about knowing such lineage? And how different do you think you would feel if you didn't have that information?
Yakuzza Lethecus: Bodhisattva Zenji :)
Zen Arado: perhaps it was important to me as a validation of my teacher's credibility
Zen Arado: or any Zen teachers credibility
Zen Arado: but ultimately you have to make up your own mind I think
Storm Nordwind: You don't need a lineage to be a bodhisattva Yaku! :)
Zen Arado: I am not as much into Zen now a days
Storm Nordwind nods to Zen
Zen Arado: my ideas are always changing
Zen Arado: lately I'm finding a lot of Zen ideas in philosophy
Storm Nordwind: Credibility is a shortcut. It saves you time at the start. But in the end you have to take the route of evaluating ideas for yourself anyway.
Zen Arado: great point storm
--BELL--
Alfred Kelberry: speaking of bodhisattva: http://i.imgur.com/D7stp.jpg
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Zen Arado: I was listening to a bishop talking about faith and doubt earlier today
Storm Nordwind: Thank you Boxy. Took me a while to understand the reference, as I've never bought either. And the link with bodhisattva still escapes me :)
Zen Arado: very interesting
Storm Nordwind: Tell us more Zen :)
Alfred Kelberry: storm, would you rather introduce a new tortured sole or save the trouble :)
Storm Nordwind: TFTD?
Zen Arado: he was talking about when Moses went up the mountain
Zen Arado: and the Israelites created idols because they couldn't wait for him to come down
Storm Nordwind: Gotch Boxy :)
Zen Arado: http://www2.lse.ac.uk/publicEvents/e...t1500vSZT.aspx
Zen Arado: I think that was an initial lecture before the series
Zen Arado: I haven't time to look up the actual program but you wouldn't be able to listen to it anyway
Alfred Kelberry: oh wait, you got enrolled, zen?
Zen Arado: no :)
Zen Arado: it's the guy who gives the radio talks though
Alfred Kelberry: ah, that course you wanted was computer related
Alfred Kelberry: ok
Zen Arado: who knows what course I might do boxy
Storm Nordwind: I can listen to BBC stuff here. And it's podcasted anyway
Zen Arado: well these talks are on this week, just 15 minute talks and very interesting
Yakuzza Lethecus: bbc isn´t blocked in the states ?
Zen Arado: some of these bishops start to sound like Zen teachers to me these days
Storm Nordwind: Live talks are a problem though, as the 7 hour time difference kills the morning shows for me
Alfred Kelberry: zen, you have to decide :)
Zen Arado: the whole idea of concepts of God seem to have changed
Alfred Kelberry: storm :)
Zen Arado: this is at 145 our time
Storm Nordwind: Why would the BBC be blocked here Yaku?!!
Yakuzza Lethecus: well, steams are blocked to germany due to copyright issues
Yakuzza Lethecus: how have they changed zen ?
Storm Nordwind: Not here Yaku (or at least not usually). they just try and sneak in ads instead!
Zen Arado: well that's what he was talking about earlier
Alfred Kelberry: yaku, i thought you meant that the evil royalists are being prosecuted in the states :)
Zen Arado: the old idea of God was very anthropomorphic
Zen Arado: an image of ourselves
Zen Arado: whereas God is indefinable
Storm Nordwind: A close friend of mine in England was elected president of a regional interfaith group. He met a bishop at an interfaith conference. The bishop turned out to be polytheist!
Zen Arado: he was also talking about the way we use words and concepts
Zen Arado: yes it's amazing storm
Zen Arado: maybe I'm working my way back through philosophy into Christianity again :-)
Zen Arado: actually a lot of Christians actually worship idols
Alfred Kelberry: zen, how is the image of god perceived now?
Zen Arado: some concept they have of God
Zen Arado: it's what I'm saying boxy, it is changing and becoming more like the God they referred to in Zen
Storm Nordwind: Do they worship idols? Or do they - like many other religions - just put pictures up of loved ones, you might be gods or they might be family
Storm Nordwind: *you -> who
Alfred Kelberry: more of a concept than a real person?
Zen Arado: http://news.reonline.org.uk/re_news.php?521
Zen Arado: that's a better link
Zen Arado: it sounds like the same idea of solidifying concepts
Zen Arado: that you find in Zen
--BELL--
Zen Arado: not at all like the old Presbyterian stuff that was hammered into me
Storm Nordwind is too much of a pragmatist to have any other than "working concepts", that are just "for now". Experience seems to obviate concepts.
Zen Arado: yes
Zen Arado: gets us back to an article I was reading yesterday when I posted a link to
Zen Arado: http://www.timeshighereducation.co.u...orycode=172613
Zen Arado: somebody very creative and imaginative originates a cult or a religion but then the original imagination is gradually replaced by dogma and rules
Zen Arado: people like the Buddha and Jesus for example
Storm Nordwind: Both imagination and knowledge are traps in themselves, and don't provide what is really the most valuable thing.
Zen Arado: what is that storm?
Storm Nordwind: Wisdom
Zen Arado: prajna
Zen Arado: what's the difference between wisdom and knowledge?
Zen Arado: heh a new topic :-)
Storm Nordwind: There's a big difference, don't you think?
Yakuzza Lethecus: i recall the question being asked in the circle, agree storm
Zen Arado: I agree, but I'm trying to think of what it is
Zen Arado: wisdom seems to be derived more experientially
Zen Arado: intuitional?
Zen Arado: from a deeper place than mere head knowledge and education
Storm Nordwind: There's a god i used to be close to called Odin. He was after knowledge, knowledge, knowledge. But did it bring him wisdom? I don't think so.
Zen Arado: maybe it's a blend of imagination and knowledge
Storm Nordwind: Wisdom brings perspective. It says what is really important at a particular time, and what is not
Zen Arado: knowing which facts are important
Zen Arado: what knowledge can be discarded
Storm Nordwind: yes. It allows you to see more of the bigger picture. A more whole view.
Zen Arado: perhaps imagination is needed to recombine knowledge to create wisdom
Zen Arado: wisdom seems to be a distillation of knowledge
Storm Nordwind: Imagination can also help us with empathy.
Zen Arado: finding the important knowledge
Storm Nordwind: And empathy with compassion.
Storm Nordwind: And compassion with most everything else - including happiness. :)
Zen Arado: I found something interesting yesterday about compassion
Zen Arado: maybe I'll post it on the 99 days
Storm Nordwind: Please tell :)
Storm Nordwind: OK
Zen Arado: it's by the psychologist Susan Blackmore
Zen Arado: it actually stems from free will and determinism
Storm Nordwind: She's into Zen too.
Zen Arado: which I am reading about in the book called "the Ego Trick"
Zen Arado: yes she is a Zen practitioner
Zen Arado: I'm amazed to find Julian Baggini the philosopher using the same ideas I find not too long ago in non-duality and in Zen teachings
--BELL--
Zen Arado: gosh, everything is starting to blend together :-)
Yakuzza Lethecus: so you are an bodhisattwa :)
Zen Arado: I'm not anything
Zen Arado: just a bundle of this and that :-)
Storm Nordwind: If you act like a bodhisattva, please permit us to call you one :)
Zen Arado: as far as I remember bodhisattva tries to save all beings
Zen Arado: that's a pretty difficult thing to do :-)
Alfred Kelberry: http://i.imgur.com/GVl7R.jpg
Storm Nordwind: Yes. But how else is there to be?
Zen Arado: we are all being used in different ways
Zen Arado: sometimes I think ideas themselves drive everything
Zen Arado: it's like there is a time for ideas to appear
Zen Arado: when civilisation is ready to be able to accept them
Zen Arado: perhaps we have to become advanced enough
Storm Nordwind: The same ideas are presented again and again, only in different forms according to time and culture. Upaya.
Zen Arado: yes, most of them appeared around 500 years BC
Zen Arado: we are still doting on Aristotle :-)
Alfred Kelberry: upaya?
Storm Nordwind: Skilful or expedient means
Zen Arado: yes
Storm Nordwind: basically presenting an idea in a totally different way for different people - sometimes even using tricks! - because of the constant motive that they benefit
Yakuzza Lethecus: good day,evening everyone
Storm Nordwind waves
Zen Arado: byee Yaku
Alfred Kelberry: storm, was apple newton's failure bad marketing or bad timing?
Zen Arado: yes, perhaps of greater and greater percentage of the population become able to accept the ideas as we become more.... Something
Storm Nordwind: Boxy - I have no opinion on the matter :)
Zen Arado: there is a new Samsung smartphone out today
Zen Arado: some say it's better than the iPhone
Storm Nordwind: New day. New smartphone
Zen Arado: there are some good points in that article I posted
Alfred Kelberry: we already have a better phone - android :)
Zen Arado: 'knowledge facilitates community and continuity, while imagination facilitates change.'
Storm Nordwind has a cheap LG Thrive with the data switched off :)
Storm Nordwind: I think we have a nice balance here in PaB, don't you think Zen?
Zen Arado: Yes storm
Zen Arado: I like that point
Zen Arado: knowledge is important as a base
Zen Arado: we wouldn't have progressed unless we could hand knowledge down to the next generation
Zen Arado: but we have to be careful not to get bogged down
Storm Nordwind: One feeds the other, like a frisbee flying! Without that constant cycle, we get stuck in one and the frisbee falls from the sky!
--BELL--
Zen Arado: a good metaphor storm
Zen Arado: my voice typing is calling you store room :-)
Storm Nordwind laughs
Zen Arado: just my bad pronunciation
Zen Arado: I better go now thanks for coming :-)
Storm Nordwind: Thank you for hosting :)
Alfred Kelberry: it seems like pab's frisbie is doing circles around this pond :)
Zen Arado: byee
Storm Nordwind waves
Alfred Kelberry: yet another circle is over