2012.11.25 07:00 - Just a Process

The Guardian for this meeting was Bleu Oleander. The photos and comments are by Bleu Oleander.

Zon Kwan: hi bleu
Bleu Oleander: hi Zon :)
Zon Kwan: how are you today ?
Bleu Oleander: great, u?
Zon Kwan: good
Zon Kwan: quiet here ?
Bleu Oleander: quiet morning here yes
Bleu Oleander: what brings you here?
Zon Kwan: hm
Zon Kwan: i always come when i have time
Bleu Oleander: that's nice, me too
Zon Kwan: is this your session ?
Bleu Oleander: how long have you been coming to PaB?
Bleu Oleander: yes
Zon Kwan: hm..long
Zon Kwan: dont even remember
Bleu Oleander: :)
Zon Kwan: years
Bleu Oleander: for me too
Zon Kwan: good place to come to think
Bleu Oleander: where are you in the world?
Zon Kwan: and chat
Bleu Oleander: yes
Zon Kwan: and to clean inventory
Bleu Oleander: ha! yes need to do that :)
Zon Kwan: have you been in those rl sessions ?
Bleu Oleander: PaB in RL? no
Bleu Oleander: have you?
Zon Kwan: no
Bleu Oleander: tempting to go
Zon Kwan: must be nice though
Bleu Oleander: yes
Zon Kwan: mostly university people ?
Bleu Oleander: hmmm
Bleu Oleander: not sure
Zon Kwan: many that i have met are
Zon Kwan: you are not ?
Bleu Oleander: no
Zon Kwan: me neither
Zon Kwan: thx :)
Bleu Oleander: yw!
Bleu Oleander: ty!
Bleu Oleander: what are your interests in sl?
Zon Kwan: mind
Bleu Oleander: as in your own?
Bleu Oleander: what aspects?
Zon Kwan: all
Zon Kwan: lol
Bleu Oleander: :)
Bleu Oleander: do you enjoy reading about that subject?
Zon Kwan: oh yes
Zon Kwan: and in sl you can do much more
Bleu Oleander: what are some of your favorite books?
Zon Kwan: i love alan watts
Bleu Oleander: ah ok, haven't read any of his
Zon Kwan: have your heard his talks ?
Zon Kwan: you can find on web
Bleu Oleander: yes

--BELL--
Bleu Oleander: i'll check it out
Zon Kwan: he was one of the first who made indian philosophies and buddhims and zen to west in understadable way
Bleu Oleander: what are some of his main ideas?
Bleu Oleander: what does he say about mind?
Zon Kwan: i think he is into zen
Bleu Oleander: you also?
Zon Kwan: zen is purest
Zon Kwan: but to understand it
Zon Kwan: one needs to understand other religions and philosophies
Zon Kwan: i like how he is playful
Bleu Oleander: good subjects to investigate
Zon Kwan: not serious at all
Zon Kwan: and still goes deeper
Zon Kwan: than most
Zon Kwan: what about you ?
Bleu Oleander: I haven't investigated any zen philosophies very much
Bleu Oleander: but seems interesting
Bleu Oleander: i'll listen to some of his talks
Zon Kwan: what are your interests in sl ?
Bleu Oleander: I like to build and create art in sl
Bleu Oleander: I like making machinimas also
Zon Kwan: machinimas ?
Bleu Oleander: videos made with computers in virtual worlds
Zon Kwan: wow
Zon Kwan: i cant do any of those
Bleu Oleander: http://www.youtube.com/user/BleuOleander?feature=mhee
Bleu Oleander: for later :)
Zon Kwan: makes a note
Bleu Oleander: :)
Zon Kwan: zen !
Zen Arado: Hi Bleu, Zon
Zon Kwan: we were just talking of you
Bleu Oleander: hiya Zen :)
Bleu Oleander: ha!
Zen Arado: heh
Zon Kwan: how is your day ?
Bleu Oleander: we were talking about Alan Watts
Zen Arado: ah yes
Zen Arado: I like his books
Zon Kwan: ahe is best at tapes
Bleu Oleander: i'm not that familiar with him
Bleu Oleander: but will listen to his talks
Zon Kwan: fantastic leturer
Zen Arado: 'The Wisdom of Insecurity' is a great little book
Zen Arado: he was a character
Zen Arado: a bit wild
Bleu Oleander: is there anything you don't like about what he says?
Zon Kwan: and also "The Book"
Zen Arado: yes..just read that
Zen Arado: and I am reading 'The Watercourse way'
Zen Arado: on Taoism
Zen Arado: he was very clever
Zon Kwan: yes
Zon Kwan: hits the nail in the head
Zen Arado: started off as an Englis minister in Christianity
Bleu Oleander: nail?
Zon Kwan: just a phrase..lol
Zen Arado: an idiom lol
Bleu Oleander: yes
Zon Kwan: sees the core
Zen Arado: hit a nail on the head
Bleu Oleander: core of Taoism?
Zen Arado: right on the matk
Bleu Oleander: of what?
Zen Arado: I haven'r got farwith it
Zen Arado: trying to read too many books at the same time as usual
Zon Kwan: lol
Bleu Oleander: me too haha!
Bleu Oleander: bad habit
Zon Kwan: my bad habit also
Zen Arado: it starts slowly about Chinese language
Zen Arado: how we should be using chnesde ideograms
Bleu Oleander: why?
Zen Arado: they convey so much information so succinctly
Zon Kwan: nods
Bleu Oleander: interesting

--BELL--
Zen Arado: actually normal language has two stages
Zen Arado: it is written down sounds
Zen Arado: whereas Chinese ideograms are pictorial only
Zon Kwan: interesting
Bleu Oleander: words and letters are pictures too in a sense
Zen Arado: yes but our language originated in sounds
Bleu Oleander: didn't all language?
Zen Arado: so we then have to represent sounds in writing
Zen Arado: apparently Chinese didn't
Zon Kwan: never thot that
Bleu Oleander: they represent sounds with pictures?
Zen Arado: I'll see if I can find that in the book
Bleu Oleander: interesting, i'll check out his talks on line
Zon Kwan: sounds can be symbols
Zon Kwan: like pictures
Zon Kwan: or words
Bleu Oleander: its all about conveying meaning from one mind to the next
Zon Kwan: thinks so
Zon Kwan: why else
Zen Arado: 'The ear cannot detect as many variables at the same time as the eye, for sound is a slower vibration than light. Alphabetic writing is a representation of sound, whereas the ideogram represents vision and, furthermore, represents the world directly—not being a sign for a sound which is the name of a thing. As for names, the sound “bird” has nothing in it that reminds one of a bird, and for some reason it would strike us as childish to substitute more direct names, such as tweetie, powee, or quark. Watts, Alan (2010-11-20). Tao: The Watercourse Way (Kindle Locations 435-439). Perseus Books Group. Kindle Edition.
Zen Arado: he also talks about how European languages structure our thought patterns
Bleu Oleander: I think all language does that
Zen Arado: 'The supposition that knowing requires a knower is based on a linguistic and not an existential rule, as becomes obvious when we consider that raining needs no rainer and clouding no clouder. Thus when a Chinese receives a formal invitation, he may reply simply with the word “Know Watts, Alan (2010-11-20). Tao: The Watercourse Way (Kindle Locations 397-399). Perseus Books Group. Kindle Edition.
Zon Kwan: nods
Zon Kwan: "me" "doing"
Zon Kwan: although it just happens
Zen Arado: yes
Bleu Oleander: knowing is a process, raining is a process
Zen Arado: this is all a prelude to the Tao because it was writtten in Chinese
Bleu Oleander: ah so depends also on translations of course
Zen Arado: our language structures us into splitting reality into subjects and objects
Zen Arado: a sort of unconscious conditioning
Bleu Oleander: so if we don't think in Chinese can we really "know" what is being said?
Zon Kwan: he has a nice way to put it: how can a noun (me) start a process (verb: doing)
Zen Arado: don't know but it helps of we are aware of that conditioning I think
Bleu Oleander: me is a noun in a language sense but a symbol for what "I" call myself
Zen Arado: it's all verbing in a sense
Bleu Oleander: the construction of "I" or "me" is a process too
Zen Arado: lots of authors mention this
Zen Arado: it's useful
Zen Arado: but creates a false impression
Zon Kwan: yes but in sentence you have usually someone who does something

Zen Arado: and it's all just a process
Zon Kwan: thats the way lagueage conditions thinking
Bleu Oleander: "just a process" ... pretty amazing if you really think about it

Zon Kwan: hehehe
Zen Arado: seeing is a process that needs three things

--BELL--
Bleu Oleander: seeing is a very complex process, turning the raw sense information entering our eyes and turning it into something meaningful ... seeing with the mind :)
Bleu Oleander: well I must go
Bleu Oleander: thank you both for an interesting conversation
Zen Arado: that is the scientific explanation
Bleu Oleander: a lot to think about today
Bleu Oleander: take care
Zen Arado: kk
Bleu Oleander: have a great day
Zen Arado: byee Bleu and Zon :)
Zen Arado: you too
Bleu Oleander: bye Zen and Zon :)